Ali and Praying under the influence

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

I see sect bias here. I suppose these internet debates wont change much and as an individual it remains out responsibility to go out there and search for the truth because the truth is out there!

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To carry you point further.I think the shia attitude today can be summarized as " all sahaba are enemies of Ahlulbayt until proven otherwise"
on the flip side too, some sunnis had delibrately exaggerated the merits of some sahaba who were known for hostility towards Ali & his sons.And not treated the opponents of Ali the same way they treated the opponents of other caliphs [notably opponents of uthman]

I think this attitude has less to do with actual recorded history and hadith rather than the twisted way the facts are represented.Sometimes isolated incidents can be misintrepreted in a very negative way.

e.g Sa'd b abiwaqqas has traditionally been seen by shias as a big enemy of Ahlulbayt as his son was the leader of the army that killed Hussain b Ali.But to blame sa'd for what his son did is unfair.In his life sa'd never conspired against Ali , although he didnt fight with him which was wrong he should have] but he never cooperated with his enemies either which he easily could have[despite letters from syria promising him rewards].Secondly his nephew Hashim and many members of his tribe were staunch supporters of ALi.Thirdly the hadith in sahih muslims in which Sa'd refuses 2 curse Ali and recounts his three outstanding merits khasais].And even his own son was intially a supporter of Hasan b Ali but later greed made him switch sides.
Point is that there are many shades of gray which are overlooked not because they are not authentic events but because they dont fit well with the official version on either side.Now obviously to the common person who knows about islamic history only from sermons and majalis will never be able to get the bigger picture.And we wonder why shia and sunnis are so hostile to each other.

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This discussion is a waste. One the day of judgement, Allah is not going to question you if you loved 'Saad bin Abi Waqas' or 'any other tom, dick or harry! People, for God sake read Quran with open heart and you shall find that most important thing for each one of us is to that our good aamaal outweigh the bad ones. However Allah (swt) indeed has orderd and demanded from us love for Prophet Mohammad's Ahlay Bayt like Hazarat Ali, Hasan, Hussain, Fatima, as said clearly in Sura Shura verse 23:

42:23 That is (the Bounty) whereof Allah gives Glad Tidings to His Servants who believe and do righteous deeds. Say: "No reward do I ask of you for this except the love of those near of kin." And if any one earns any good, We shall give him an increase of good in respect thereof: for Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Ready to appreciate (service).

So remember that the love for Ahlay Bayt is commanded and wished by Allah (swt) and Insha Allah once we submit ourselves to the will of Allah (swt) we shall be guided to the Sirat e Mustaqim (Ameen)

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My dear brother: Being a human our first job is use our brain, to recognise fact, which is avaiable in Quran . If there is any matter, we can solve it with a avidence and common agreement . If any thing which your mind admits as fact or lie, there you need to read a Quran about the matter.

I am sorry to say, but it is fact that you people are (Lakeer ke Pakeer) you never try to see the fact because you had been listening it from others. why dont you use your superb brain.

As shia we have been taught that do debates with those who have knowledge and able to listen and understand. If you got some thing better than you have, switch it. (not doubt that we are True Holders of ROOF .
Unluckly you do not have this right. becuase your ullam always stops you to talk on some matters , becuase they know that fact.

See video of where ahle Hadith Alim says on matter on (Kalima) and Namaz : that (AB MIRA MON MAT KUHLWAO)........ PHIR BAT PHEL JAYE GY..

ITS FACT DEAR, you are not allowed to see HAQ..

ALI MOLA

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so you are one of those literalists who follow "Quran only" ?
does the Quran name the ahlulbayt ?

I agree that we will be questioned on good and bad amal only and it wont be a history quiz, but its upto us to develop a wider understanding of religion [to the best of our ability] in order to better practice it for which hadith and history is indispensable.

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its HADEES, dear paindo. We are not arab.

Super and Permanent Lotay Joining Imran Khan's PTI
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one sided arguments can only be called propoganda not debates ....

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Did i say anywhere i follow "Quran only"? But brother, my knowledge is limited but i do know that all the muslims take the Quran it as a true word of God, one that carries deep meanings.

As For Quran naming the Ahlay Bayt, i think our dear Prophet Mohammad showed who his Ahlay Bayt are in the event of Mubahila against the Christians (read: verse of Mubahila). But if you doubts and believe some other people or group to be the Ahlay Bayt of our Prophet then i m not going to argue over this. You have your faith and i have mine.

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Well said there brother Pagluu. Good to c u in the religion forum :)

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LOL

I doubt you have ever used your brain

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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

[mod]Please stay on topic. DO NOT discuss side topics in this thread. For that purpose please start a new thread. thanks :flower1: [/mod]

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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

I am quite perplexed to see the stark reaction by shia comunity on this controversy specially on world wide web. It is quite sad to see them going on cursing spree and not seeing this matter objectively.

Ok , I understand the wording Dr. Israr used was way too much casual. Which was not apropriate at all. And quite offensive if you can understand Urdu ( specaily the casual use of proverb). But we should acknowledge the fact that he has already apologised for that and afterall he is a human being for God sake, He can commit a mistake, and he is humble enough to apologise, what is the rationale of cursing him after that ???

quote from some website :

"Oh! Dr. of Blasphemy, in Islam, dying as a jahil is equivalent to
dying as a kafir.

Your sinful statement about IMAM-E-AWWAL ALI IBN ABI TALIB(AS) has
shown everyone THE CONDITION YOU ARE GOING TO DIE IN!! "

And he did not make that story himself but quoted from book islamic historical records.
The same book has chapter dedicated to his (hazrat Ali (ra) ) 's praise , virtues and rank

A video someone made while reading from that book :

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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

I remember seeing his interview on JawabDeh (programe of geo tv ) most part it was boring. The host refered to some scholar's comment which was like

"The Ulema ______ recommend caution when listening to the works of Dr. Israr Ahmad, since he is not a Mustanad Alim-e-Deen. "

To which Dr. Israr replied :

*Yes of course ! He is right. Everyone should consult other tafaseer (explainations of holy quran) and should not follow me blindly *

Needless to say that host was not expecting such an honest and mellow reply to a hostile personal attack, from a person who has large following world wide

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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

this response is counterproductive for the most part and rather than debate about the validity of hadith most attacks are rather of personal nature.

I am not a big fan of Dr Israr as he selectively quotes historical references and misleads people in the lectures which i have heard of him] but that dosent mean we demonize him.And Allah alone knows someone's intentions.

even the video u posted narrates only some of the many merits of Ali , I dont think any rational sunni [except nawasib ] doubt that.

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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

Frankly, I am quite disturbed to see the such a rash reaction from shia populace on internet. I am talking about other websites/blogs.

They seem to be very fond of cursing , sending la'nats and praying for hell fire for other person. They all seem to know what is in his heart and what is his intention. Even then, Instead of asking For Hidayat (guidance) for that person (standard modus ope***** for followers of prophet Muhammad Pbuh ) they are cursing like there is no tomorrow

For God sake, He is a muslim. He committed a mistake and asked forgiveness. Prophet (pbuh) asked hidayat for non-muslims and asked pardon for the sins of whole muslim Ummah. What Shias doing now is completely oposite, dispite claimant of champion
followers prophet and ahl-e-bayt (as)

This is very negative psyche. Specially, if some non-muslim or student of this religion sees that comment he would most certainly derive very negative conclusion that cursing has some kind of a ritual status in islam. Which is wrong.

Just like me other people too commend shia folks for their love and adherence of prophet's family and loyalty beyond doubt. But this particular aspect is alarming and needs to be addressed.

Concerns of some guy on internet blog :

[quote]

...I have accidently discovered this site for looking as to what has Dr. Israr said about Hazrat Ali (RA) as prior to this I had never heard him uttering against Hazrat Ali (RA) or any of the family members of Prophet Muhammad(PUBH). And I was astonished to see what he narrated was an incident prior to the prohibition ....
**which was narrated by lot of other scholars in the books of Hadith and Tafseer. It would have a certain a blashphemy if he would have said that this incident was recorded even after the prohibition of liquor. Yet more astonishing was the reaction from my Shia brothers and the language which they have used which I would even never used against the Jews who have done so much harm to Islam and Muslims. I am a little confused now as to what is the status of Hazrat Ali in Shia tradition?? **
I would like to know that whether he is considered as a Prophet equal to Prophet Muhammad because previously I have at numerous occassions defended the Shia brothers in various discussions if anyone was considering them as to be non-muslims. But from the reaction of Ahl-e-Shia on various web sites I am now a little confused. Because this kind of reaction shows that the position of Hazrat Ali (RA) is not the same as of the other companions of Prophet Muhammad.
I would love if anyone clarifies this to me? Moreover the language of the comments used here does not match with the name of the blog or site. It appears to me that I am not watching the blog or site of "LIVE, LOVE, LAUGH" but rather "DIE, ABUSE, HATE".

Shams Zaman Pakistan

[/quote]

Time Pass - March 2012
Time Pass - March 2012
Time Pass - March 2012
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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

Most present sect of 12ers do not consider Ali equal to prophet i.e he [Ali] according to them did not recieve revelations, they believe in finality of Prophethood but many sects who were predecessors of 12ers were clearly heretical and these beliefs infiltrated to a certain extent in the 12ers.And even now glimpses of it can be seen in certain practices of 12ers although their ulema discourage it.

People tend to think that what shias and sunnis believe today are the same beliefs as they were at the origin of the schism thats a dangerous assumption.

All the lanat will have the oppositte effect , this will endear Dr Israr to people who are looking for opportunites to attack 12ers and they play right into their hands.Not to say that all 12ers are so naive some of this "outburst" is carefully orchastrated so that they can show their seperation from the rest of islamic community in a sense their "shia" identity.

Bad start to a morning
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Re: Ali and Praying under the influence

Sunni reply to Dr Israr Ahmed’s tohmat against Imam Ali (as) [Awesome qasida] subhan Allah!

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http://uk.youtube.com/user/alihaq92

Peace Nussairee

What makes you think this person is Sunni?

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Peace bro Code_red

When people curse and rant and hurl insult they are only bringing forth their own turmoil from within. Those who can curse anyone are themselves in a cursed state. What sane people draw blood from themselves in a fury and rage?

When people curse someone else they will have those curses to bear on the Day of Judgement. When someone swears at me I could look them in the eye and say that I could pity the torment that they are undergoing from inside on account of attempting to shift some of that torment on to others. May Allah (SWT) save us from the internal torment that He has such people in.

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w’s brother. This guy is a well known naat khowan from Pakistan. His name is i think Fasihuddin Soharwardi.