Al-Wahab

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Al-Wahab

Respected brother lethal kamikaze :salam: Jazakallah Khayrunn - In sha Allah your reward is with Allah Almighty.

And Allah’s are the best names, therefore call on Him thereby, and leave alone those who violate the sanctity of His names; they shall be recompensed for what they did. The Noble Quran 7:180

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:wsalam: & Peace brother Ibn Sadique :slight_smile:

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I see a twitter account where the person is named al-Ali. It shows that ‘al-Ali’ could be used for anyone besides Allah.
Meet Ahmed al-Ali. https://twitter.com/al_ali_ahmed

Similarly, any name could be used with ‘al’. See masjid al-Hussain: مسجد الØ*سین - ویکیپیڈیا](مسجد الحسین - آزاد دائرۃ المعارف، ویکیپیڈیا)

Funny that the fatwa of shirk is now clinging on the use of ‘al’ in Arabic! :slight_smile:
Some people could be so audacious to make sweeping judgments based on some questionable thoughts.

Aren’t they afraid of God? Aren’t they afraid that if their speculations turn out to be false then they may be punished for declaring Muslims as non-Muslims?!

The term ‘Ibn Wahhab’ referred here was for the Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab al-Najadi, who revived the calls of earlier cults in Islam declaring other Muslims kafirs, and who fought with Ottoman Empire issuing the fatwa of kufr on them, and who considered territory under Ottomans the ‘daar al-Harb’.

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Wa alaikum Salam!

What does the group in question prefer to be called?

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^ Ahl-al-Hadith

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^ ok then so be it. I didn't know that Ahle hadith and Wahabis are the same

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I have used name calling here, the same names wahabi, najdi, [edited].

And the issue is all about beliefs

I hope for reward from Allah Subhanahu for standing up against these people. From the Quranic verses you quoted the question arises as to my conduct with semi wahabis. This is a problematic area since they are not proper wahabis but offer support to wahabis, other then that there is not much one can say about proper wahabis that is forbidden to be said, according to me

Like for example you! You often take up najdi positions but I have never called you a najdi or wahabi yet. Especially some of the posts that you have 'liked' sometimes they are kufri, and not just kufri but qattar kufri. So I do not go out of my way to label people wahabi however it is ok to do so if one is confident that the person belongs to 'them'

Basically I am good with using wahabi, as a basic name. Not even all wahabis find it offensive, I have had people tell me that they are 'pakkay wahabi' meaning 'pakkay of that group belonging to ibn abdul wahab'. The name has been accepted by their scholars as well

Like I said if you want to refute the use of the name then you must refute previous examples given to you on page 1. That's the only principled refutation that would make sense to me.

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they have about 10million sects, most often each sect consisting of 1 person

each one has a different religion

One needs to recognize which of these 10million sects that a particular person belongs to. On a forum like GS only the most moderate of these opinions will be expressed

On this thread the use of the name 'wahabi' has been given as disliked but that is not always the case!

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**[edited]

**

Does the highlighted in red part refer to people who call some specific others as wahabis?

[note]Please avoid posting material and/or links to portals that may be deemed hate speech towards any one group. Take caution to ensure that others feel welcome in engaging in discussion without being labeled.[/note]

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^

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I understand you have a issue with me correcting you, but as your brother in Islam I feel obligated to correct you time and again; although I may also be wrong, so I feel no shame in being corrected.

What compels me to address you is posts like this. You said it was cult of Abdul Wahhab that fought Ottoman Empire, but I’m not sure if you know it was Sharif of Hijaz who was bribed by the British to conspire against Ottoman Empire. It would do your claim much justice if you read about biography of Sharif of Hijaz and his lineage which goes back to our beloved Prophet Muhammad(s.a.w).. Sometimes ignorance can get the best of us, I seek refuge with Allah from making claims without knowledge.

I don’t mean to target you in specific, but so long as I see something that doesn’t make sense to me due to my lack of knowledge, I will continue to highlight and question it regardless of who posts it. Please don’t be offended. We’re all seekers of the knowledge, and none the wiser than another.

Here’s a little excerpt albeit from wikipedia, but I’m sure other more authentic sources would provide a greater detail of study

That’s not to say the Sharif of Hijaz didn’t have his reasons and grievances which led to the revolt, surely there were wrong done by the Ottomans, but the fact remains.

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Peace vroom,

I think either my english is very poor that I’m unable to convey what I’m trying to say here or you don’t wish to look outside the circle. Look, it is written in very simple english (translation of verse) that:

1- O you who have believed
2- People may not ridicule another people, perhaps they may be better than them
3- Women may not ridicule another women, perhaps they may be better than them
4- Do not insult one another
5- Do not call each other by offensive nicknames
6- One who have faith must not disobey and shall repent (if disobeyed) otherwise he’s the wrongdoers.

What you said earlier, where that fit in above (accordingly)? In other words “what you said earlier isn’t kind of disobeying Almighty Allah’s order?”. Please think about that. Again I’m trying to bring you as well as others attention towards a name of Almighty Allah but it seems to me like that you just want to talk about that particular group.

There are few hadiths where it is narrated that one who said or believed in “Almighty Allah”, “last Prophet” and “Day of Judgement” etc., shall not be called (labeled) as kafir (unbeliever) neither be killed". His/her matter is with Almighty Allah. Unfortunately, I’m unable to locate those hadiths and :insh: if found then surely I’ll share it here.

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Salam lethal kamikaze

Well what you are feeling is perhaps the result of not being taken seriously, and me moving away from the exact points you want to discuss. Both these concerns would have merit as there is an element of truth to them
I have my reasons. One of them being, what i see as, your lack of knowledge on the matters and a lack of integrity that i see coming from you.

What I have said regarding my position in this particular situation is that ‘I am not prohibited’ ‘not much is prohibited to be said about wahabis’ and ‘I hope for reward’

Basically I have multiple (meaning numerous) routes to the permissibility of my speech and sentiments. So what you are quoting is out of context for my situation and does not apply in this situation. This is what I believe

Well. I am aware of the same hadiths and you will find other hadiths of The Prophet SallAllahu Alaihi wa Alihi wa Sallam which say ‘to kill them’. We have further have Ahlus Sunnah fatwas of ‘kill them’. We are not friendly about the hijacking of our religion which is The Truth from The One AllMighty. The friendly ones are perrenialists, they have a joint religion with all the religions of the world

The innocent one who recites the kalima should be safe from us, and so should the less innocent one, but when you come to qattar badies they are not protected, neither are the people of any of these categories allowed a free hand to promote what they like

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Peace vroom,

Please quote a verse from Holy Qur’an and/or Hadith where it is said/mentioned that “it is permissible to call (label) a believer with offensive (for him/her) name(s)”, or at least showing permissibly of doing such act, if any. :hat:

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We have set a particular name for that group - wahabis. Now from what you said in reply to Sa1eem’s last post didn’t you agree or implied you understand [with agreement]?

wahabi is not the name of Allah, Al-Wahhab is. When the quality in the name becomes disassociated from Allah Subhanahu its attribution to everyday language is open to use. This is what I believe to the best of my knowledge.

for example Al-Jabbar is a name of Allaah (this is similar to the usage of Al-Wahhab)

However when it comes to jabbarin it is used for people who misuse their power (which is similar to how wahabi is used by Ahlus Sunnah)

**(14:15)Waistaftahoo wakhaba kullu jabbarin AAaneedin
**[Ibrahim 14:15] And they sought a decision, and every stubborn rebel was destroyed.

Allah Subhanahu wa Ta’ala is fear from any defects

Your concerns did not hold water. It was a ghalat femi on your part, and those that taught you, that we are ‘playing with the names of Allah’.

The khawarij and the order is to kill them. perfect example for you to learn from

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Peace bro vroom

So how many Khawarij have you killed?

I'm not sure what I feel from the posts you write ... A feeling of arrogant self-righteousness or an extremely intolerant and hateful feeling ... I can't see the love of RasoolAllah (SAW) manifest in your posts or else you would find good things to say about people.

Please calm down ... I joined the people of tassuwwuf not because cult-mentality (separating them and us) but because they invited to people equally and treated guests honourably. I would be afraid to let you continue trying to represent yourself as "Ahl-us-Sunnah" with questionable character. I will in future ask for some of your posts to be moderated because
I believe they are extreme and harmful to the Sunni position.

The very mindset of actively purifying vehemently what you consider to be fringe and fanatical is the same attitude that the early Ibn 'Abdul Wahab community had with the traditional people.

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Peace vroom,

Those who taught me? :smiley: Do you really wanna know who taught me? Watch these short clips if you have time. Plz keep in mind that I agree with these Scholars when they say/said: ‘Not to disrespect the name “Wahab/Al-Wahab”’.

and what I quoted in post# 1 about clueless, you’ll find here :slight_smile:

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Salam

I have killed zero khawarij thus far, however I have helped to kill khawarij aspects of a few people and bring them back to a standard of life where they are able to stick up for Islam, aspects of Islam that are now dear to them.
All Praise be to Allah

You do know that killing is mentioned as an example, and not by me if i recall correctly

[Quote]

I'm not sure what I feel from the posts you write ...
[/QUOTE]

I have a good idea what you feel

[QUOTE]

A feeling of arrogant self-righteousness or an extremely intolerant and hateful feeling ...
[/QUOTE]

That might be a mirror of your ownself, its certainly not me

I can go as far as to say i can state my opinion, perhaps its too blatant/forthwithe for your liking or plots

[QUOTE]

I can't see the love of RasoolAllah (SAW) manifest in your posts or else you would find good things to say about people.
[/QUOTE]

I do have good things to say about people, good things about good people

[QUOTE]

Please calm down ... I joined the people of tassuwwuf not because cult-mentality (separating them and us) but because they invited to people equally and treated guests honourably. I would be afraid to let you continue trying to represent yourself as "Ahl-us-Sunnah" with questionable character. I will in future ask for some of your posts to be moderated because
I believe they are extreme and harmful to the Sunni position.
[/QUOTE]

'Us and them' , 'Sunni' position. So you are building a glass house of dual language
I would say: What a hypocrite..but really i think you just need some counselling. Something to pull out from your own self what you think

[QUOTE]

The very mindset of actively purifying vehemently what you consider to be fringe and fanatical is the same attitude that the early Ibn 'Abdul Wahab community had with the traditional people.
[/QUOTE]

This is not my mindset nor my aim nor is it a concern to me

Not impressed at all. If it helps I do not plan on staying here for ever. Ya Dj, Maestro you can have your slow paced learning center back to ochestrate

I even knew, had a feeling, the next post would be yours. Pathetic

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These are all wahabis. Is it supposed to be a impressive list? Or just a list?

Do not try to imply that Ahlus Sunnah are disrespecting the name of Allaah Subhanahu waTa'ala when we refer to wahabis as wahabis. That would be an incorrect allegation, but possibly a popular one within wahabi circles and wahabi influenced circles

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I agree that to say “Wahabi” is not necessarily an insult … It is, if it is intended to be an insult … Not all people who disagree with a certain position are followers of ibn abdul Wahab … Some of the most ridiculous accusations are that Deobandis are Wahabis, some plain moderate Muslims who just knock around through life are also called Wahabis if they happen to disagree with some people’s stance. I’ve heard people call Shafi’s and Malikis Wahabi too.

Some members of Ahl-al-Hadith call themselves Wahabis … I also feel saying Deobandis or Barelvis is not insulting … But some Deobandis want to be called Sunnis or just Muslims and many Barelvis think they are Ahl-us-Sunnah and don’t realise that they are really a small part of it.

There is a reality between certain aspects of Salafis and Khawarij but they are not the same either … Salafism is a new movement that had it’s origin in the people from Ahl-al-Hadith from Saudi but has deviated even from the “Wahabi” setting, the Salafis of today follow Al-Uthaimeen, and Al-Albani … Both of whom have been influential and alive within the past 70 years or so.

Many Salafis are politically wound as are the Ikhwaan … And Ikhwaan have many sub-groups … Here’s is what Yasir Qadhi says about a few things … He has adjusted his position although many people would still consider him a Wahabi.