Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
I would rather a fatwa come from a institution of quality education that boasts of some of the most active researchers and scholars in Islam, than accept a fatwa from the likes of OBL or random maulvis from India.
Al-Azhar is quite respected around the world and I appreciate their efforts to try to bring solutions to current problems affecting a NUMBER of muslim women around the world. Meanwhile, what are YOU doing to help these women, I wonder?
This is the hallmark of our age. We throw stones at those who try to help.
Just make sure that this time fatwa is coming from Al Azhar instead of Daily Times.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Peace brother,
What you said is fine and dandy... but given that most of the population does not subscribe to such high ideals, what would you do? How many orphans and needy children do you currently support if we are to talk numbers?
Personally, I am not for or against abortion in this case since I do not consider myself qualified enough to judge the fitness of terminating someone's life: I do not know what it's outcome would be.
Given the circumstances and condition of a particular locality, I'd opt for giving such children for legal adoption to those who do not have children of their own where the biological mother would rather live without this child. But perhaps I too am falling into a trap by thinking that society can be forgiving or able to properly scoping out who is to blame and for what.
Peace hypnotix-2000
I think you have a sensible and workable suggestion ... people can be encouraged to do good, and some will do it. Regarding supporting orphans ... I have no knowledge of the number, but I do not support any on a first hand basis and the system will not allow it because I have children. I will always inshaAllah speak for their rights as advised in the Qur'an.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
when the first line of the report is absurd what do u expect from the rest of it....
how many followers of al-azhar do u think are there in sunni islam????
my guess wud be 0 for outside egypt and i wud not be surprised if the number is close to that even within egypt....
ppl need to know better and stop thinking that shaikhs of al-azhar r to sunnis what ayaullahs of iran r to shiaas....
Your only guessing, right?
But I'm sure that there are 0 wahabis, salafis, super salafis followers of Al Azhar.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
when the first line of the report is absurd what do u expect from the rest of it....
how many followers of al-azhar do u think are there in sunni islam????
my guess wud be 0 for outside egypt and i wud not be surprised if the number is close to that even within egypt....
ppl need to know better and stop thinking that shaikhs of al-azhar r to sunnis what ayaullahs of iran r to shiaas....
Peace bro armughal
I do agree with you that the first line is absurd. I also want to make the distinction that Al-Azhar are recognised as Islamic authorities even though in our view they are not of the 'best' or 'highest' class in the world today. For that reason I think the article real suspect.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Peace Sister PyariCgudia
I'm in total agreement with your post. I am only refuting the article for abortion and why I think it is not authentic. The pill is a good Islamically compatible way of avoiding the problem of unwanted pregnancy in the case of rape. The good in this outweighs other things. However, in the case of emotional turmoil vs murder we have no choice to go with emotional turmoil.
I'm not understanding your reply entirely. You would want her to take the morning after pill or not? If she has access to the morning after pill, are you saying you'd rather she NOT take it and instead go with emotional turmoil?
I'm confused, because in most places (I'm sure you're not in severe poverty living in area with no access to proper medical care), the morning after pill is available. So, what scenario do you have in mind where you WOULD want her to go thru the emotional turmoil?
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Just make sure that this time fatwa is coming from Al Azhar instead of Daily Times.
And so you can google this news report and try looking it up in other sources to confirm some consistency of the report. Surely, you know how to use the internet?
If you can come up with evidence this is a false report, then by all means, present it. But it makes no sense to me why people would start putting doubts on the character of Al-Azhar University when somehow their suggestions don't seem fit with the values your mother/father raised you with?
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
PCG
If my 13 years old daughter gets raped and becomes pregnant, and she wants to kill the unborn child, I would never support her decision but I would not force her to do the opposite and neither would my husband.
Hope this satisfies your worry.
And I hope my hypothetical daughter doesn't turn out to be a " baby killer feminist(Dain, Churail) ".
You are using uncivilized language against people that might not share your views. Very mature.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Peace hypnotix-2000
I think you have a sensible and workable suggestion ... people can be encouraged to do good, and some will do it. Regarding supporting orphans ... I have no knowledge of the number, but I do not support any on a first hand basis and the system will not allow it because I have children. I will always inshaAllah speak for their rights as advised in the Qur'an.
I am surprised. What system do you talk of where you are not allowed to adopt because you already have children? Are you living in China?
The morning-after pill, just by the virtue of timing on how it works, fits within the time frame of aborting fetal formation BEFORE the cells gain a "spirit".
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Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
^ And notice how this is still not a close-and-shut case. Give these people a fool-proof solution, and they're still debating about how maybe the girl should still keep the baby.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
PcG even in an advanced country like USA, the morning after pill is still controversial b/c of ppl who keep lumping it into the same category as RU-486 (the abortion pill) and pharmacists who are allowed to NOT dispense certain medicines if it conflicts w/ their religious beliefs...
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
PcG even in an advanced country like USA, the morning after pill is still controversial b/c of ppl who keep lumping it into the same category as RU-486 (the abortion pill) and pharmacists who are allowed to NOT dispense certain medicines if it conflicts w/ their religious beliefs...
Lets keep in mind which religious beliefs we're talking about. The morning after pill is opposed by Christian religious fundamentalists who are nearly 100% anti-aborting anything. Reason? They believe the "spirit" is breathed into the first cell resulting from the union of a sperm and an egg.
Muslims on the other hand believe that one cell needs to grow into a whole lotta more cells before the spirit is breathed in.
Any method that impedes cellular division and diffrentiation prior to the 40 day mark post-conception (although recently, I had one kid tell me another number; I think its 40, though) is permissable in Islam. Hence, stem cell research using human embryonic stem cells is not considered "haraam" in the muslim world. Meanwhile, Bush is trying to stop the research because he thinks its immoral. Why? Because that's conservative Christian opinion.
Just because the US has trouble digesting something and starts calling it immoral shouldn't make us jump on the same bandwagon. We tend to have a lot of similarities, but there are small differences and we need to be aware them. Especially in these situations where the lives of innocent women and their futures are at stake. Getting pregnant when you're not ready for it and through a traumatic event is MUCH more difficult and unfair to a woman than people make it out to be, and definitely not the romantic affair that bollywood flicks make out rape to be (you know, like how Madhuri fell in love with Amir Khan after he nearly attempted to rape her in I forget-what-movie-it-was). You might think I'm joking, but the South Asian culture, and other cultures as well, do not see rape as such a serious crime as it is.
Bottom line, I am proud to come from a religion where the morning after pill is NOT controversial.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
PCG
If my 13 years old daughter gets raped and becomes pregnant, and she wants to kill the unborn child, I would never support her decision but I would not force her to do the opposite and neither would my husband.
Hope this satisfies your worry.
And I hope my hypothetical daughter doesn't turn out to be a " baby killer feminist(Dain, Churail) ".
Hareem01,
Interestingly you find it appropriate to go above and beyond what is neccessary in the religion? Tell me, why do you feel this way?
Why is it neccessary, in pov, to ruin both the life of your daughter and the life of the child? For example, a 14 year old girl is not psychologically ready to give birth, so why make her? Why allow a child be born into a system that will despise him for a crime he never commited? Im assuming that you will support your daughter materially throughout her ordeal.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Hareem01,
Interestingly you find it appropriate to go above and beyond what is neccessary in the religion? Tell me, why do you feel this way?
Why is it neccessary, in pov, to ruin both the life of your daughter and the life of the child? For example, a 14 year old girl is not psychologically ready to give birth, so why make her? Why allow a child be born into a system that will despise him for a crime he never commited? Im assuming that you will support your daughter materially throughout her ordeal.
Thanks for answering in advance.
Peace Bidd3h
I'm not sure you realise that you are doing bidd3h with my wife's post. My wife has essentially said that she will not agree with a decision that goes towards killing if it reached a point after a number of days when the life comes in to the foetus. The child would be raised by us, the parents of the hypothetical victim.
The reason why the allowing of the child to be born would be chosen is because Islamically the lesser of the two evils is to allow the child to be born. Here is why.
1) Killing would be 100% the result
2) The despising society is not a 100% phenomenon there could be a way out of it. Identity realignment, moving home, going to a place where such people are socially acceptable.
3) The chance of the child being a good one is wholly dependent on tawfiq and how parents raise the child.
4) The damage of death outweighs the damage of being socially rejected.
5) The life is given by Allah (SWT) not the rapist.
Now read above and ask yourself why you think Hareem01 will force a hypothetical daughter to have her child, she said no such thing.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
You are using uncivilized language against people that might not share your views. Very mature.
Dain(churail), thats what you call "a female baby killer " in Urdu.
And so you can google this news report and try looking it up in other sources to confirm some consistency of the report. Surely, you know how to use the internet?
If you can come up with evidence this is a false report, then by all means, present it. But it makes no sense to me why people would start putting doubts on the character of Al-Azhar University when somehow their suggestions don't seem fit with the values your mother/father raised you with?
It's not from or on al azhar's website, and i can't see this fatwa on islamonline(a website with scholars mostly from al azhar)either.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Hareem01,
Interestingly you find it appropriate to go above and beyond what is neccessary in the religion? Tell me, why do you feel this way?
Why is it neccessary, in pov, to ruin both the life of your daughter and the life of the child? For example, a 14 year old girl is not psychologically ready to give birth, so why make her? Why allow a child be born into a system that will despise him for a crime he never commited? Im assuming that you will support your daughter materially throughout her ordeal.
Thanks for answering in advance.
Allah says in the Holy Qur'an Surah 17, ayah 31,
And kill not your children for fear of poverty. We shall provide for them as well as for you. Surely, the killing of them is a great sin.
In Two Sahihs it is recorded that Abdullah bin Masud said: "I said, O Messenger of Allah, which sin is the worst' He said,
(To appoint rivals of Allah when He has created you.) I asked,Then what' He said, (To kill your child lest he should eat with you.) I asked, `Then what' He said, (To commit adultery with your neighbor's wife.)''
And Mr/Ms Bidd3h!
Killing an unborn child out of fear of poverty or other reasons like fear of hatred of society etc is a sin.
And if my hypothetical daughter is not ready for it and she wants it to be aborted than its up to her, I can't force anyone (especially an adult) to do something against her will.
That's how I used to think when I was 14, and after 10 years I still think like that.
This is what I said in my earlier post as well, but you are only reading what you want to read and what you want to make out of it.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Psyah & Hareem:
What about the psychological pressures and uncomfort that it will cause your daughter?
Where in the Muslim World is a place where such people will be found acceptable? Especially in a very judgemental Pakistan. Your daughters hopes of getting married to a respectable husband being flushed away.
In the actual religion of Islam, the child will be born a third class citizen. He wont be allowed a portion of the inheritance because he/she isnt "legitmiate". It is the actual religion which degrades the childs status.
Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Psyah & Hareem:
What about the psychological pressures and uncomfort that it will cause your daughter?
This is for the second time you've asked the same question, as I said earlier if my hypothetical daughter is not ready(because of psychological pressure etc) for giving birth to that baby then she can abort the pregnancy.
Where in the Muslim World is a place where such people will be found acceptable? Especially in a very judgemental Pakistan. Your daughters hopes of getting married to a respectable husband being flushed away.
Acceptable in which respect? Pakistanis don't even accept a legitimate orphan child but does it matter?
About her marriage, are you sure that your daughter will get married to a respectable man?
In the actual religion of Islam, the child will be born a third class citizen. He wont be allowed a portion of the inheritance because he/she isnt "legitmiate". It is the actual religion which degrades the childs status.
It's not an honour to recieve money or property from inheritance, at least not for me so I don't think it actually degrades your status of a human being, Fatima(ra) didn't recieve anything in inheritance but she is one of the best women of this Ummah.
Shaykh Ahmed Kutty from al azhar has answered the inheritance question for a fatherless child,
*If a person has fathered a child illegitimately, then he is allowed, according to some jurists, to marry the mother and claim the child as his own. In this way, the child will have a biological father; if the man refuses, then the child cannot be called except by such general names as Ibn `Abdullah or Bint Amatullah (son of the servant of Allah or daughter of the maid of Allah). He is to be looked after by the guardians of the mother; if they fail, then it is the responsibility of the state or the community to look after him. *
Having said this, I must still add that the father in his true conscience should provide for that child. He can also will away at the time of death at least up to one third of his wealth. "
Also aborting the pregnancy out of this fear that the baby won't recieve his/her portion in inheritance is totally a wrong reason for the abortion.