Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

[system]

Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby
Tuesday, January 01, 2008

CAIRO: Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam’s highest seat of learning, on Sunday declared that any woman pregnant by rape must abort the baby immediately in order to maintain “social stability”.

“A raped woman must terminate the pregnancy immediately upon learning of the pregnancy if a trusted doctor gives her clearance for the abortion,” the Islamic Research Council of the Cairo-based institution said in a statement. This would ensure “social stability”, it said. According to the independent Egyptian Centre for Women’s Rights (ECWR), two women are raped every hour in this country of 76 million.

Many factors contribute to the increase in sexual harassment including rising unemployment, the huge cost of marriage and the fact that sex outside marriage is forbidden, experts say.

Egyptian law bans abortion except on the grounds of “necessity”, which includes instances when a woman’s life or health is in danger or in cases of fetal abnormality. afp

Daily Times

Social stability? This is the first time i’ve heard where an abortion has been allowed by Muslim scholars for the interests of ‘social stability’! I find it rather bizzare.

[Sara516]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

most ppl probably wudn't differentiate right away if an unwed mother was raped OR had bad judgement (in case of consensual sex), and thus assume that she was of loose character....

i highly doubt that in any Islamic country, a father-less child will be welcomed with open arms, whatever hte circumstances of his or her conception were, not to mention the trauma of being raped AND having that rapists baby, no doubt that child will face problems later in life.

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

Pakistani Dragon Peace

I wouldn't believe everything Daily Times has to say. It is interesting that social stability is the scapegoat here. You know what is gonna happen if that becomes common place. People are going to start having consenting sex outside marriage, getting pregnant and aborting on the basis that they were 'raped'.

If anything abortion will cause social instability not stability. Abortion laws will reduce the burden on the rapists becasue they won't be obligated to fend for the children because their seed will be eliminated.

I also find it interesting that the given ruling is 'must' abort rather than have the option to abort. That sounds interesting indeed. Lies ... don't you think?

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

To add ... 2 rapes every hour? ...

Lets assume 50% of rapes end up with pregnancy. That is 2 x 24 x 365 = 17,520
rapes per year giving an assumed 50% of 17,520 pregnancies = 8,760 scattered over the country. If we assume that the instability of this will affect 3 other family members then 8,760 x 4 = 35,040 people out of 76 M that is a portion approximately 0.05% of the population per year.

It is an insiginificant amount to justify killing babies.

I would like to know how this figure compares with out of marriage consented sex pregnancies. That figure is probably not available. Also according to the article Al-Azhar are seeing the illegality of sex outside marriage as a reason for increased sexual harrasment.

This article could not have been sourced from true statements!

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Sara516

most ppl probably wudn't differentiate right away if an unwed mother was raped OR had bad judgement (in case of consensual sex), and thus assume that she was of loose character....

i highly doubt that in any Islamic country, a father-less child will be welcomed with open arms, whatever hte circumstances of his or her conception were, not to mention the trauma of being raped AND having that rapists baby, no doubt that child will face problems later in life.

Peace Sara516

It is so upsetting to read that you say the above. It is the most Islamic thing for us to take care of orphans or children without parents.

[Sara516]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@psyah

Pakistani Dragon Peace

I wouldn't believe everything Daily Times has to say. It is interesting that social stability is the scapegoat here. You know what is gonna happen if that becomes common place. People are going to start having consenting sex outside marriage, getting pregnant and aborting on the basis that they were 'raped'.

Maybe that's a small price to pay, to help the majority who are under these circumstances. if women are still being forced to carry a rapists child, how is that fair to her? Unwed mothers and father-less children won't be treated so kindly, and it's cruel to put a woman through that esp when already having faced the trauma of being raped.

The original post also stated that sexual harrassmnet is up b/c of, in part, the high cost of marriage. Maybe trying to lower that cost of marriage will encourage more marriages and less premarital relationships? That'll be curing the problem..instead of putting a band-aid on it.

[quote]
If anything abortion will cause social instability not stability. Abortion laws will reduce the burden on the rapists becasue they won't be obligated to fend for the children because their seed will be eliminated.
[/quote]

Since when would rapists feel any obligation towards anyone or any thing? A man who can do that probably doesn't have any conscience of sense of "obligation" to begin with. So, there is no question on the burden of a rapist.

[quote]
I also find it interesting that the given ruling is 'must' abort rather than have the option to abort. That sounds interesting indeed. Lies ... don't you think?
[/quote]

I did find that troubling when I originally read it, because even though it IS giving a green-light to a decision that in teh eyes of hte one in that situation will want to undergo, I still believe that noone should be forced to do something that htey do not want to do. In this situation, a woman shouldn't be forced to carry her rapists baby, but if she chooses to carry him/her and give it a life, then that's also her choice and she shouldn't be forced to undergo an abortion.

[Sara516]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@psyah

Peace Sara516

It is so upsetting to read that you say the above. It is the most Islamic thing for us to take care of orphans or children without parents.

I'm sorry the truth has upset you but its not at all possible that **all **residents of Islamic countries follow Islam.

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Sara516

Maybe that's a small price to pay, to help the majority who are under these circumstances. if women are still being forced to carry a rapists child, how is that fair to her? Unwed mothers and father-less children won't be treated so kindly, and it's cruel to put a woman through that esp when already having faced the trauma of being raped.

The original post also stated that sexual harrassmnet is up b/c of, in part, the high cost of marriage. Maybe trying to lower that cost of marriage will encourage more marriages and less premarital relationships? That'll be curing the problem..instead of putting a band-aid on it.

Since when would rapists feel any obligation towards anyone or any thing? A man who can do that probably doesn't have any conscience of sense of "obligation" to begin with. So, there is no question on the burden of a rapist.

I did find that troubling when I originally read it, because even though it IS giving a green-light to a decision that in teh eyes of hte one in that situation will want to undergo, I still believe that noone should be forced to do something that htey do not want to do. In this situation, a woman shouldn't be forced to carry her rapists baby, but if she chooses to carry him/her and give it a life, then that's also her choice and she shouldn't be forced to undergo an abortion.

Peace Sister

Rape itself a sign of social instability. The society are responsible for allowing the rapist to rape. The high cost of marriage is an unIslamic phenomenon, you are only suggesting to go treat the problem by making way towards Islam.

A rapist when identified and convicted should have to pay for the upkeep of his child, that is the obligation for those people who are caught. But not all rapists are senseless if a rapist had the thought of thinking one of his children was walking about as opposed to no thought of it occurring because he knows that the unborn get aborted the thought of having a child is more likely to be a deterant than the other option.

Giving any person the decision to kill a person even if it a mother of that child is wrong Islamically. Except under certain conditions. Those conditions have to be met which is that the life of the mother will be lost as a result of the having the baby. Then the mother's life should be preferred. Otherwise where there is no matter of life endangering the mother then she does not have that right. Maryam (AS) was not touched by any man, yet she did not have any say over carrying the prophet Isa (AS) she had to do it. Likewise a woman when pregnant should deeply consider and be made to think that it is murder vs social status. The argument presented about the father of the child being a rapist is an emotional one and defends the mindset that is current.

A mother's patience for a child is her pathway to Jannah and if the child is born and well educated it doesn't matter who the father is biologically it could be a very good and helpful pious person in adulthood.

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Sara516

I'm sorry the truth has upset you but its not at all possible that **all **residents of Islamic countries follow Islam.

I'm sorry you view that as the truth!

I have seen a world from a different viewpoint than yours I think.

Peace

[Sara516]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

^ Do you really think that every single person living in an Islamic country actually follows Islam??? Ever heard of "naam-ka musalman"?

[Sara516]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Sara516

The original post also stated that sexual harrassmnet is up b/c of, in part, the high cost of marriage. *Maybe trying to lower that cost of marriage will encourage more marriages and less premarital relationships? That'll be curing the problem..instead of putting a band-aid on it. *

@psyah

Peace Sister

Rape itself a sign of social instability. The society are responsible for allowing the rapist to rape. *The high cost of marriage is an unIslamic phenomenon, you are only suggesting to go treat the problem by making way towards Islam. *

What exactly are you trying to say that I didn't? I said that trying to lower hte cost of marriage will encourage more marriages. You said the high cost is unIslamic. We both agree that the high cost is no good. So what are you trying to say?

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

In most well-stocked rape centers and hospitals, the morning-after pill should be offered to a woman victimized by rape. The morning-after pill, just by the virtue of timing on how it works, fits within the time frame of aborting fetal formation BEFORE the cells gain a "spirit". Therefore, the morning-after pill has been supported by an overwhelming number of religious scholars today.

There's simply no need to keep the baby anymore. That's provided that a woman gets to a hospital or rape center in time. This is the problem, because many times that doesn't happen. Either she's too injured, or she's locked away by her rapist and can't escape, or she's too afraid or shocked to get herself to a hospital. Many women claim their first instinct is to get in a shower and clean themselves, which is not good, because you lose DNA evidence. So many women just deal with it and never go to a hospital.

Its unfortunate. We're so lucky that we can abort the cell division before a fetus forms after a rape, and we need to inform more women about getting themselves to a rape center/hospital as fast as they can after the crime.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@psyah

Pakistani Dragon Peace

I wouldn't believe everything Daily Times has to say. It is interesting that social stability is the scapegoat here. You know what is gonna happen if that becomes common place. People are going to start having consenting sex outside marriage, getting pregnant and aborting on the basis that they were 'raped'.

If anything abortion will cause social instability not stability. Abortion laws will reduce the burden on the rapists becasue they won't be obligated to fend for the children because their seed will be eliminated.

I also find it interesting that the given ruling is 'must' abort rather than have the option to abort. That sounds interesting indeed. Lies ... don't you think?

If your daughter, God forbid, would be raped and if she got pregnant, would your primary worry be that you wanted the rapist to make sure he pays for the baby, or to make sure that he's given a death punishment, just as the Prophet would give to rapists in his time? Furthermore, would you be willing to accept the emotional turmoil, lets say, your 13 year old daughter would face if she had to deal with a pregnancy and wanted to abort and you didn't let her?

The morning-after pill is a great invention. Lets start promoting it, and leave behind the old ways of "She must give birth to the child".

[hypnotix-2000]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@psyah

Peace Sara516

It is so upsetting to read that you say the above. It is the most Islamic thing for us to take care of orphans or children without parents.

Peace brother,
What you said is fine and dandy... but given that most of the population does not subscribe to such high ideals, what would you do? How many orphans and needy children do you currently support if we are to talk numbers?

Personally, I am not for or against abortion in this case since I do not consider myself qualified enough to judge the fitness of terminating someone's life: I do not know what it's outcome would be.

Given the circumstances and condition of a particular locality, I'd opt for giving such children for legal adoption to those who do not have children of their own where the biological mother would rather live without this child. But perhaps I too am falling into a trap by thinking that society can be forgiving or able to properly scoping out who is to blame and for what.

[USResident]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

I think there are problems at both ends and the perception of a child born out of proper legal intercourse.

Factual analysis would no doubt reveal that such children are scorned upon in society especially muslim societies. Much needs to be done to correct this as fault or blame does not lay upon the child in this case. Most of the traumas such children or women go through are created by the society itself, if we could eradicate those perceptions and behaviors then naturally the bandaid solutions in form of abortions would be on the decline.

Its enough for a woman to suffer the trauma of a rape but the life long struggle to raise such a child is what makes abortion look such a viable option and if someone is in such a circumstance I cannot blame them, society does not make it easy for them as they should.

We need to learn not to punish the victims of such happenings but help get them through it. Abortions will have little purpose other than medical treatment if we morally alleviate our situation by assigning blame to where it belongs and direct affection/caring/support to where it is needed.

[armughal]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Pakistani Dragon

CAIRO: **Al-Azhar, Sunni Islam’s highest seat of learning, .

when the first line of the report is absurd what do u expect from the rest of it....

how many followers of al-azhar do u think are there in sunni islam????
my guess wud be 0 for outside egypt and i wud not be surprised if the number is close to that even within egypt....

ppl need to know better and stop thinking that shaikhs of al-azhar r to sunnis what ayaullahs of iran r to shiaas....

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@Sara516

What exactly are you trying to say that I didn't? I said that trying to lower hte cost of marriage will encourage more marriages. You said the high cost is unIslamic. We both agree that the high cost is no good. So what are you trying to say?

Peace Sara516

I was surprised that you came to this conclusion, but Al-Azhar being an Islamic University did not or according to the article it gave the crude solution of abortion greater priority.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

I would rather a fatwa come from a institution of quality education that boasts of some of the most active researchers and scholars in Islam, than accept a fatwa from the likes of OBL or random maulvis from India.

Al-Azhar is quite respected around the world and I appreciate their efforts to try to bring solutions to current problems affecting a NUMBER of muslim women around the world. Meanwhile, what are YOU doing to help these women, I wonder?

This is the hallmark of our age. We throw stones at those who try to help.

[psyah]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@PyariCgudia

If your daughter, God forbid, would be raped and if she got pregnant, would your primary worry be that you wanted the rapist to make sure he pays for the baby, or to make sure that he's given a death punishment, just as the Prophet would give to rapists in his time? Furthermore, would you be willing to accept the emotional turmoil, lets say, your 13 year old daughter would face if she had to deal with a pregnancy and wanted to abort and you didn't let her?

The morning-after pill is a great invention. Lets start promoting it, and leave behind the old ways of "She must give birth to the child".

Peace Sister PyariCgudia

I'm in total agreement with your post. I am only refuting the article for abortion and why I think it is not authentic. The pill is a good Islamically compatible way of avoiding the problem of unwanted pregnancy in the case of rape. The good in this outweighs other things. However, in the case of emotional turmoil vs murder we have no choice to go with emotional turmoil.

[hareem01]

Re: Al-Azhar says women pregnant by rape must abort baby

@PyariCgudia

If your daughter, God forbid, would be raped and if she got pregnant, would your primary worry be that you wanted the rapist to make sure he pays for the baby, or to make sure that he's given a death punishment, just as the Prophet would give to rapists in his time? Furthermore, would you be willing to accept the emotional turmoil, lets say, your 13 year old daughter would face if she had to deal with a pregnancy and wanted to abort and you didn't let her?

The morning-after pill is a great invention. Lets start promoting it, and leave behind the old ways of "She must give birth to the child".

PCG
If my 13 years old daughter gets raped and becomes pregnant, and she wants to kill the unborn child, I would never support her decision but I would not force her to do the opposite and neither would my husband.
Hope this satisfies your worry.

And I hope my hypothetical daughter doesn't turn out to be a " baby killer feminist(Dain, Churail) ".