Ahmadis

[Ibn_Sadique]

Quoting Hash00

Regarding the “confusion in belief” which seems to appear, the answer is simple. The statements above were made in a time that preceeded revelation. Jesus had spoken as a baby then as a man. In two phases. Just like that, the Promised Messiah spoke before and after revelation (which was the reason why the above lines are before he was told). Ask yourself, did the Holy Prophet (saw) believe in the angels, before he had seen one?

These books are proceeding his commisioning.

Yes, this is confusing – when ** “Jesus had spoken as a baby then as a man”** , there was no contradiction in his speech as when a baby or later as an adult (a Prophet of Allah (saw)).

Prophet Muhammad (saw) before being commissioned into Prophethood said/did nothing that was contradictory to when he was commissioned into Prophethood. For example, he never ever worshipped idols, and when commissioned into Prophethood said, “Oops, I got it wrong, from now on I don’t worship or believe in these things.

“The Holy Quran does not permit the coming of any messenger (rasul) after the Khatam an-nabiyyin, whether a new one or an old one.” (Izala Auham, p. 761. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 3, p. 511)

“By saying `There is no prophet after me’, the Holy Prophet Muhammad closed the door absolutely to any new prophet or the return of any old prophet.” (Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 152. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, p. 400)

"Allah says: He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin.' And it is in the Hadith: There is to be no prophet after me.’ … If another prophet were to come, whether new or old, how could our Holy Prophet be the Khatam al-anbiya?‘’ Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 74. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, pp. 308-309)

"It does not befit God that He should send a prophet after the Khatam an-nabiyyin, or that He should re-start the system of prophethood after having terminated it.‘’ (Ainah Kamalat Islam, p. 377. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 5, p. 377)

I have quoted few of Mirza’s quotes from my last post. Here he has emphatically stated that there can be no Prophet after Rasool Allah (saw). I take your word that this was said “ before he was commissioned to Prophethood” as I do not have the dates for the quotes, but this still goes against Mirza sahib. All the Prophets are protected by Allah from sin/or error even before being commissioned. Here Mirza sahib is doing 180* turn.

It’s like someone saying over again as again that “ there is Prophet after Muhammad (saw)” and then “ Sorry guys, I got it all wrong. I have been told that I am the new prophet after all that.”

Mirza Sahib first laid claim to Prophethood and seeing the adverse reaction withdrew that claim. When a few years had passed and the ‘atmosphere had calmed down he renewed his claim to Prophethood. If you require I can dig up the reference for this too.

Now back to the site Claims and position of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad: 8. Denial of claiming to be a prophet - 1

See how Mirza Sahib is denying his claim to the Prophethood!

** “Denial of claiming to be a prophet - 1**

He called the allegation (that he claimed to be a prophet) as being: **a fabrication, a slander ** against him (refs. 1, 2)

He said he too, like his opponents, **cursed anyone who claimed to be a prophet ** (ref. 3)

He said that any claimant to prophethood after the Holy Prophet Muhammad is:

**1) a liar and unbeliever, (ref. 4)

2. without faith, (ref. 5)

3. a wretched imposter (ref. 6)

He invoked curses on those who alleged that he claimed to be a prophet (ref. 7)**

1. “I believe also that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the best of messengers and the Khatam an-nabiyyin, and those people **have fabricated a lie against me who say that this man claims to be a prophet.” ** *— Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 8. RK, vol. 7, p. 184. *

2. “By way of a fabrication, they slander me by saying that I have made a claim to prophethood . But it should be remembered that all this is a fabrication. Our belief is that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam al-anbiya.” *— Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 182, footnote. RK, vol. 13, p. 215. *

3. “Let it be clear to him that **we also curse the person who claims prophethood. ** We hold that ‘there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah’, and believe in the finality of prophethood of the Holy Prophet Muhammad.” *— MI, 1986 edition, vol. 2, pp. 297-298. *

4. “I have heard that some leading Ulama of this city Delhi are giving publicity to the allegation against me that I lay claim to prophethood. … I respectfully state to all these gentlemen that these allegations are an entire fabrication.**I do not make a claim to prophethood. … ** After the Holy Prophet Muhammad, I consider anyone who claims prophethood and messengership to be a liar and unbeliever.” *— Statement issued in Delhi, 2 October 1891. MI, 1986 edition, vol. 1, pp. 230-231. *

5. “Other allegations made against me are that ‘this man denies the Lailat al-Qadr and miracles and the Mi`raj, and further that he makes a claim to prophethood and denies the finality of prophethood.’
   “All these allegations are entirely untrue and false. … Now I make a clear and plain affirmation of the following matters before Muslims in this house of God: I believe in the finality of prophethood of the Khatam al-anbiya, may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him, and
   I consider the person who denies the finality of prophethood as being without faith and outside the pale of Islam.” *— Speech in Delhi Central Mosque, 23 October 1891. MI, 1986 edition, vol. 1, p. 255. *

6. “Can **a wretched imposter who claims messengership and prophethood for himself ** have any belief in the Holy Quran? And can a man who believes in the Holy Quran, and believes the verse ‘He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin’ to be the word of God, say that he is a messenger and prophet after the Holy Prophet Muhammad?” *— Anjam Atham, p. 27, footnote. RK, vol. 11, p. 27. *

7. “If the objection is that I have made a claim to prophethood, and such a thing is heresy, what else can I say except that **may the curse of Allah be upon liars and fabricators.” ** *— Anwar-ul-Islam, p. 34. RK, vol. 9, p. 35. *

8. “Question: In the booklet Fath-i Islam you have made a claim to prophethood.

   “Answer: **There is no claim of prophethood. ** On the contrary, the claim is of sainthood (muhaddasiyyat) which has been advanced by the command of God.” *— Izala Auham, pp. 421-422, RK, vol. 3, p. 320. *

9. “Look how far this is from a claim to prophethood. O brother, do not think that what I have said contains even a whiff of a claim to prophethood. … **God forbid that I should claim prophethood ** after God has made our Prophet and master Muhammad, peace be upon him, as the Khatam an-nabiyyin.”*— Hamamat al-Bushra p. 83. RK, vol. 7, p. 302. *

10. ** “I make no claim to prophethood** . This is your mistake, or you have some other motive in mind. Is it necessary that he who claims to receive revelation also becomes a prophet?” — Jang Muqaddas, p. 67. RK, vol. 6, p. 156. “

We are going in circles. My father is arabic, so is my mother and we originate from KSA. I ask you, what is the difference between Khatam and khatim? In urdu/persian, it is the word “khatem” that means finished, and that is the mistake that has been made. Following the advent of Islam, the Qu’ran spread to all the corners of the world and the speech marks were introduced, where the meaning of khatam and khatim was essentially lost through the difference between a zair and a zabir.

Believe me when I say that KSA people don’t think what you are thinking. Trust me, I have lived among them for quite some time! So you mean to say that all the Arabs have not understood simple Arabic - the difference between “khatam and khatim” was too much for them? Come on, give a break.

[armughal]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hash00: *
where the meaning of khatam and khatim was essentially lost through the difference between a zair and a zabir.

[/QUOTE]

so where is the zer and zabar????

khaatam (in arabic as in Quran) obviously has a zabar on ta before meem....
and so does khatam (as in urdu)....

where is the zer thing u r talking about????
or was that just used to add some weight to the otherwise weightless arguments????

[Hash00]

Armughal saheb: Im ignoring you until you raise an argument of any substance rather than poor rebuttal. I have provided opinions of scholars, other uses of the word and in turn you have brought little of that in reply.

Ibn Sadiqque saheb, I have a few questions:
1) Do you now accept the authority of the Promised Messiah (as) before his claim to prophethood?
2) Jesus held the beliefs of a Christian and earlier, he was a Jew, so does this not mean his views changed?
3) Arabic does not come a part of this, the lines you have quoted predate revelation.

[armughal]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hash00: *
Armughal saheb: Im ignoring you until you raise an argument of any substance rather than poor rebuttal. I have provided opinions of scholars, other uses of the word and in turn you have brought little of that in reply.

[/QUOTE]

best to ignore what u cant reply to....
so far u have stuck to just one thing that khatam means seal....

then u bring up zer and zabar when there is not a single zer in the words under discussion....

and i dont even look at copy/paste things cuz they r just not intellectual enuff....
i can post here books that show how mirza ghulam ahmed was a fraud set up by british to derail Muslims from their faith, but since thats not my own view i dont put it up here....

u still have to come up with what do u mean by 'seal'....
and not a single Muslim scholar has ever claimed that Muhammad (saw) was not the final prophet....

[armughal]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hash00: *

1) Do you now accept the authority of the Promised Messiah
[/QUOTE]

he has a good chance of being the promised maseeh dajjal.... :p

[Hash00]

Your penultimate post shows you haven't read my posts and are shameless enough to claim victory over shallow replies without any references.

[zakiahmed]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *

and not a single Muslim scholar has ever claimed that Muhammad (saw) was not the final prophet....
[/QUOTE]

....

Read carefully the views of following muslim scholars on the 'khatamiyyat' of Huzur :saw

Hazrat Sheikh Ahmad Farooqi:
'The rising of prophets after the Khatamar Rasul Hazrat Muhammad, the Chosen One, peace and blessings be upon him, from among his own followers and as a heritage, does not in any way run counter to his status as the Khatamar rasul. Therefore, O reader, do not be among those who doubt.'
Maktubat Imam Rabbani, Hazrat Mujaddid Alf Thani

Hazrat Imam Mohiyyiud Din ibni Arabi :
'From the study and contemplation of the Darud we have arrived at the definite conclusion that there shall, from among the Muslims, certainly be persons whose status, in the matter of prophethood, shall advance to the level of prophets, if Allah pleases. But they shall not be given any book of law.'
Fatuhati Makiyyah: Vol 1. pg 545

Hazrat Imam Abu Ja'far Sadiq :
'Hazrat Abu Ja'far, while discussing the Quranic verse: "For verily We granted the Book to the children of Abraham...," said that God vouchsafed to the children of Abraham, Messengers, Prophets and Imams. But what is ironical is that people believe in what God blessed the children of Abraham with and yet they deny this blessing for the progeny of Muhammad.'
Al-Saafi Sharah Asool Al-Kaafi, Part 3, Pg. 119

Hazrat Imam Abdul Wahhab She'raani
...prophethood has not been abolished and it is only law-bearing prophethood that is abolished.
(Al Yawaaqeetu Wal Jawaahir: Vol. 3 pg. 35)

The Muhaddith of Dehli, Hazrat Shah Wali Ullah subscribed to this opinion and stated:

'The meaning of the Holy Prophet being the Khataman Nabiyeen is that there shall not now appear a person whom God may appoint with a new Law for mankind, that is to say, there shall be no prophet who shall come with a new Law.'
(Tafheemati Ilahiyyah pg. 53)

Hazrat Maulana Abul Hasanat Abul Hayee, a distinguished scholar of the Sunni sect shared this opinion and stated:

'After the demise of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, or even during his own lifetime, it is not an impossibility for someone to be exalted to the position of a simple prophet. But a prophet with a new Law is, indeed, forbidden.'
(Dafe ul Waswas: pg 16)

Hazrat Mazhar Jan Janan Naqshabandi
'No perfection, except the perfection of prophethood bearing Law has ended. With respect to the other beneficences of God Almighty, He is neither miserly nor niggardly.'
(Maqamati Mazhari: pg 88 )

Hazrat Sayyed Abdul Karim Jilani, the renowned mystic of the 8th century Hijra was of the opinion that:

'The coming of the Law bearing prophets, after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings on him, has ceased as he has been exalted to be the Khataman Nabiyeen because he brought with him such a perfect law as no other prophet had brought before him.
(Al Insanul Kamil: Vol 1. Ch 36. Pg 68)

Hazrat Maulana Faranghi Mahal, an eminent scholar of the Ahle Sunnat also discussed the significance of the expression Khatamae Nubuwwat and on behalf of the Sunni Scholars, he declared:

'The divines of the Sunni sects believe in and expound the fact that in the course of the Ministry of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, there cannot appear a law bearing prophet and his prophethood extends to the end of days. A prophet who appears during his ministry shall necessarily be the follower of the Law of Muhammad.'
(Majmu'ah Fatawa: Vol. 1, pg 144)

The Hakim ul Millat in fact gave credence to the opinion that prophets within the Ummah may arise when he stated:

'There cannot be an independent prophet after the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, who is not his follower and his adherent.'
(Al Khairul Katheer: pg 111)

The great saint, Hazrat Maulana Room (Rehmatullah Alaihi) writes:

"Make such plans to perform righteousness in the way of God that you attain prophethood within the Ummat (religious community)"
(Mathnavi Maulana Room, Daftar I, pg. 53)

[Diva4U]

Hash00 -

These debates are way past the educational understanding and logical rational for people such as armughal. Don't bother wasting your precious time on such individuals.

[system]

Hash/Diva: Do you guys consider yourself muslims? If so, then who gives a rat's patooty what Lajwanti and the rest think?

[Hash00]

The answer to that is in my first post, no other post needs to be read about what we think we are. I've defined ourself basically. We believe in Allah and the Holy Prophet (saw) as the bringer of the greatest and final law.

[ThandyMazaq]

those ulemas you mentioned that say a prophet can come after mohammad SAW mean nothing. they are not God or His rasuls. they can do mistakes, they can be hypocrites, they can be kafirs, their words do not concern any muslims if they go against the finality of the prophethood of rasull allah Mohammad SAW. i do not know any one of the ulemas mentioned, and nor do i care to know about any one who denies the finality of the prophet SAW. end of discussion for me.

[Diva4U]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Matsui: *
Hash/Diva: Do you guys consider yourself muslims? If so, then who gives a rat's patooty what Lajwanti and the rest think?
[/QUOTE]

Yes Matsui, we are muslims. We were born muslims and we will die muslims in Allah's care and protection. He is the master of the world and it is only HE who decides right and wrong. We follow all the teachings of Islam and follow them whole heartedly.

[system]

So you are muslims. Let god decide not some two bit computer cleric whose life revolves around trying to cfonvince hinself of how pious he is.

[zakiahmed]

*Originally posted by ThandyMazaq: *
those ulemas you mentioned that say a prophet can come after mohammad SAW mean nothing. they are not God or His rasuls. they can do mistakes, they can be hypocrites, they can be kafirs, their words do not concern any muslims if they go against the finality of the prophethood of rasull allah Mohammad SAW. i do not know any one of the ulemas mentioned, and nor do i care to know about any one who denies the finality of the prophet SAW. end of discussion for me.

It was a reply to Armughal,s argument that none of the muslim scholars kept a belief that there can be a prophet after Huzur :saw:. So, I proved him wrong. It has nothing to do with your belief.

[suroor_ca02]

is there a point to this stupid argument.. u are not converting anyone here.. so just do what u think is right and let Allah be the judge of who is right or wrong.

[Madhanee]

Yeah yeah…last prophet, last digital camera, last banana, and last brains. Get lost.

[Ibn_Sadique]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hash00: *
Armughal saheb: Im ignoring you until you raise an argument of any substance rather than poor rebuttal. I have provided opinions of scholars, other uses of the word and in turn you have brought little of that in reply.

Ibn Sadiqque saheb, I have a few questions:
1) Do you now accept the authority of the Promised Messiah (as) before his claim to prophethood?
2) Jesus held the beliefs of a Christian and earlier, he was a Jew, so does this not mean his views changed?
3) Arabic does not come a part of this, the lines you have quoted predate revelation.
[/QUOTE]

1) No

2) Jesus was sent to Bani Israel to revive the religion to it's true path - it's St. Paul who 'invented' Christianity.

3) Well you were trying to show your 'Arabic credentials ( and I very seriously doubt them) What I had quoted may predate "the revelation to Mirza Sahib, But it is 180* U-turn.

So far I had only quoted from Mirza Sahib's book - of course using the Lahori Ahmadi website for references, now I am going to quote hadith from Rasool Allah (saw) regarding his say on the matter.

My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets. * (Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi) *

God has bestowed upon me six favors which the former Prophets did not enjoy:

1 - I have been endowed with the gift of pithy and perfect speech.
2 - I was granted victory owing to my awe.
3 - The spoils of war were made lawful unto me.
4 - The whole earth has been made the place of worship for me and it has become the means of purification for me also. In other words, in my religion, offering of prayers is not confined to certain specified places of worship. Prayers can be offered at any place over the earth. And in case water is not available, it is lawful for my people to perform ablutions with earth (Tayammum) and to cleanse themselves with the soil, if water for bathing is scarce.
5 - I have been sent by Allah to carry His Divine message to the whole world.
6 - And the line of prophets has come to its final end in me.
* (Muslim, Tirmidhi, Ibn Majah) *

I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time*. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me.* * (Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta') *

You (Hazrat Ali) are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (pbuh). But no Apostle will come after me. * (Bukhari, Muslim* Musnad recorded a similar hadith ending in * * 'Behold there is no prophethood after me.') **

If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar bin Khattab. * (Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi) *

The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me. * (Bukhari)*

I am the last in line of the prophets of God and my Masjid is the last Masjid. * (Muslim)*

There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me. * (Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)*

Allah will send no Apostle after me, but only Mubashshirat (Good vision or pious vision). * (Musnad Ahmad, Abu Tufail, Nasa'i, Abu Dawud)*

No Prophet will come after me and there will, therefore, be no other community of followers of any new Prophet. * (Baihaqi, Tabarani)*

God Almighty hath sent unto the world no apostle who did not warn his people about the appearance of Dajjal (Anti-Christ, but Dajjal did not appear in their time).I am the last in the line of Prophets and you are the last community of believers. Without doubt, then, Dajjal shall appear from amongst you. * (Ibn Majah)*

I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. I am Muhammad, the unlettered prophet of Allah. There will be no prophet after me. (Musnad Ahmad)

The Historic Sermon of Prophet Muhammad(SAW)

*This sermon was delivered on the Ninth Day of Dhul-Hijjah 10 A.H. in the 'Uranah valley of Mount Arafat' in Mecca.

After praising and thanking Allah the Prophet (saws) said:*

"O People, lend me an attentive ear, for I know not whether after this year, I shall ever be amongst you again. Therefore,

*listen to what I am saying to you very carefully and take these words to those who could not be present here today. * O People, just as you regard this month, this day, this city as Sacred, so regard the life and property of every Muslim as a sacred trust. Return the goods entrusted to you to their rightful owners. Hurt no one so that no one may hurt you.

Remember that you will indeed meet your Lord, and that He will indeed reckon your deeds. Allah has forbidden you to take usury (interest), therefore all interest obligation shall henceforth be waived. Your capital, however, is yours to keep. You will neither inflict nor suffer any inequity. Allah has Judged that there shall be no interest and that all the interest due to Abbas Ibn 'Abd'al Muttalib (the deceased prophet's uncle) shall henceforth be waived.

*Beware of Satan, for the safety of your religion. He has lost all hope that he will ever be able to lead you astray in big things, so beware of following him in small things. *

O People, it is true that you have certain rights with regard to your women, but they also have rights over you. Remember that you have taken them as your wives only under Allah's trust and with His permission. If they abide by your right, then to them belongs the right to be fed and clothed in kindness. Do treat your women well and be kind to them for they are your partners and committed helpers. And it is your right that they do not make friends with any one of whom you do not approve, as well as never to be unchaste.

*O People, listen to me in earnest, worship Allah, say your five daily prayers (Salah), fast during the month of Ramadan, and give your wealth in Zakat. Perform Hajj if you can afford to. *

All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over black nor a black has any superiority over white - except by piety and good action.

Learn that every Muslim is a brother to every Muslim and that the Muslims constitute one brotherhood. Nothing shall be legitimate to a Muslim which belongs to a fellow Muslim unless it was given freely and willingly. Do not, therefore, do injustice to yourselves.

Remember, one day you will appear before Allah and answer your deeds. So beware, do not stray from the path of righteousness after I am gone.

People, no prophet or apostle will come after me and no new faith will be born. Reason well, therefore, O People, and understand words which I convey to you. I leave behind me two things, the Quran and my example, the Sunnah (Hadith), and if you follow these you will never go astray.

All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listen to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people."

---

You should see from the hadith above that Rasool Allah (saw) warned us against imposters and FALSE PROPHETS even in his last Khutbah.

Now I am going to give you the statements of HEAVYWEIGHT ULEMAH AND IMAMS in regards to a possibility of Prophethood.

*Imam Tahaavi (239-321 A.H.) * has declared that Prophet Muhammad(saw)is the Chosen Servant as well as the chosen and beloved Prophet of Allah(SWT). He is the last of Prophets, Leader of the pious ones, Chief of the Prophets and beloved of Allah the Almighty; after him the claim of Prophethood is transgression and following of Satan. * (Sharhut-Tahavia Fil Aqa'idatus Salfiah, P. 15, Egypt) *

*Allama Ibn-e-Hazam of Spain (384-456 A.H.) * says that surely the line of Prophethood is finished up after Prophet Muhammad(SAW), because there is no more Revelations (Vahi) from Allah(SWT) and Allah has already declared that Prophet Muhammad(saw)is not the father of any man among you but that he is the Prophet of Allah and the Seal of Prophets. * (Al-Mohalli, P. 26, Vol. 1) *

*Imam Ghazali (450-505 A.H.) * has written that the unanimous opinion of the entire Ummah is that by the Hadith "Laa-Nabi Ba'di" , the Prophet(saw)meant that after him neither any Nabi will come nor any Rasool. The Ummah is also unanimous on this point that there is no scope of any other meaning or exception to it. * (Al-Iqtisaad Fil Eteqaad, Al-Matba-a-Tul Adabia, P. 114, Egypt) *

cont'd

[Ibn_Sadique]

**Qazi Ayaz (D. 544 A.H.) ** is of the opinion that anyone who claims to be a Prophet (after Prophet Muhammad(SAW)) or says that he is getting Revelations from Allah(SWT) is a Kafir. * (Shifa, P. 270, Vol. 2) *

“..Similarly, anyone who claims to be a Prophet with of after our Holy Prophet(saw)… or claims prophethood for himself or thinks that receiving prophethood is permitted or thinks that anyone can reach the status of prophethood through the purity of heart … Similarly, anyone who claims to receive revelations, even if he does not clearly claims prophethood, … All such people are Kafir, because they are disbelieving the Holy Prophet(saw)who has informed us that He(saw)is the Final Prophet, there won’t be any Prophet after him, and that He(saw)has been sent for the entire mankind. The entire Ummah is united in this stance. According to the Holy Quran, Sunnah, and Ajma’a (unanimity of Ummah), the Kufr of such persons is absolute… Anyone who is against this consensus (jma’a) upon the Kofr of the claimant of prophethood is also a Kafir.”

**Allama Shehristani (D. 544 A.H.) ** is of the view that if anyone says that after Prophet Muhammad(saw)there is any Prophet to come (excepting Jesus(pbuh)), there is no doubt in his being a Kafir. * (Al-Milal Wan Nahal, P. 249, Vol. 3) *

**Allama Ibne Nojeim (D. 970 A.H.) ** has written that anyone, who does not accept Muhammad(saw)to be the last prophet, is not a Muslim at all. The knowledge and acceptance of this fundamental belief of Islam is compulsory to all. * (Al-Ashbah Wan Nazaair, Kitabus-Siyar, Babur Riwwah, P. 179) *

If a man does not accept that Prophet Muhammad(saw)is the very last prophet, he is not a Muslim; and if he says that he himself is a prophet of Allah(SWT), he should be viewed as a Kafir. * (Fataawa-e-Alamgeeri, P. 263, Vol. 2) *

If someone does not keep this belief that Hazrat Muhammad(saw)is The Last Prophet or claims in persian that “I am a Messenger” and he means that he conveys the message (of Allah(SWT)), even then he becomes a Kafir. * (Fatwaa-e-Alamgeeri, P. 263, Vol. 3) *

**Maulana Ali Qari (D. 1016 A.H.) ** says that after the Prophethood of our Prophet(saw)claim of prophethood is Kofr. * (Shar-he-Fiqah-e-Akbar, P. 202) *

I have plenty more but think this should suffice (unless you need more.)

In your very first post [on this thread] you said:

…………………..Other than these two points, there is no difference between the mainstream followers of Abu Hanif, or Hanfiyya sect.

Just for you information just see what Abu Hanifah (ra) has to say on the Finality of Prophet Muhammad’s (saw) Prophethood:

**Imam Aby Hanifa (80-150 A.H.) ** is of the opinion that asking for the proof of prophethood from any claimant to prophethood after Prophet Muhammad(saw)is itself Kufr (unbelief); since the Prophet(saw)has himself said that there is no Prophet after him. * (Manaqibul Imam-e-Azam Abi Hanifa Ahmad Bin Makki, P. 161, Vo.1, Hyderabad) *

I got most of my info from: http://www.irshad.org/finality.php

[armughal]

*Originally posted by zakiahmed: *

It was a reply to Armughal,s argument that none of the muslim scholars kept a belief that there can be a prophet after Huzur :saw:. So, I proved him wrong. It has nothing to do with your belief.

just go and inform the person who compiled this inaccurate list that the mystic was not Abdul Karim, his name was Abdul Qadir…
so next time u compile the lies, atleast get the names right…

[bao_bihari]

Maulana Muhammad Qasim Naunotawi, chief of Deobandi sect(the sect which today is in the forefront of those distorting the meaning of ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’) writes: “Charged with the duty
of delivering Divine Commandments to the people, prophets may be likened to governors. They are God’s vicegerents on earth. They therefore hold a position of authority. The office of a governor or
minister is considered the highest in a chain of subordinate officers. A governor or a minister has the authority to set aside the orders or directives of his subordinates. Their orders, on the other hand, cannot be set aside by the subordinate officers. The final authority rests with the governor. Similarly, the one in whom prophethood found its perfection was declared The Seal of The Prophets - ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’, as there is no rank higher than his. (Mobahesa Shahjahanpur pg.24- 25).

2-Closer to our own period, there is the proclamation of the founder of Madrasatul Uloom, Deoband, Hazrat Maulvi Muhammad Qasim Naunotawi (who died in 1889). He says in Tahzeer Alnas page 3: “The general public may conceive that ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’ means that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was the last of the prophets but people of knowledge and understanding know it very well that being the first or last does not necessarily connote excellence. The words “Wala Kin Rasool Lallahe Wa Khatamun Nabbiyeen” are designed to convey the Holy Prophet’s (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) exalted and unequalled status and this alone is the correct interpretation. Khatamiyyat is not in any way rejected or denied if a prophet appears after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). But if Khatamiyyat is only taken to mean the last prophet, this would be a disparaging interpretation. Such an interpretation would not be acceptable to followers of Islam.” Here the founder of the Deoband Movement clearly states that calling the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) the last prophet is a disparaging remark. Yet his followers now claim this to be their fundamental belief.

MAshallah ..just saw these refrences from one of the above post…hashoo’s post…

Both refrences are misquoted ..this is the biggest problem with this religion …they normaly misquote our boks to prove thier point…

Kindly read the refrence before posting it here…

Mr Bao Bihari i read your comments regarding you saying that. Ahmadis are always shy to talk bout the character of Mirza Sahib (AS).

Should i also say this Other main stream muslims are Shy to talk about the Character of HOly Prophet (saw) NAOZOBILLAH when Christain attack on him.

Same way you will reply the alligation we will too but the diffrence is we dont use any filth language when replying.

THEre is marked difference between the two…arabs in app :saw: life never questioned about those things which so called westerner scholars are raising today ..like marriage issue etc…

MIrza sahib’s case is different…he has died only 100 years or so before…and ulema of that time questioned his character and prophet hood like we do today…

there are some qualites of a prophet…and above alll he never abuses his opponenets…look at mirza sahib…after he lost all mubahilas even against a christian he started using abusive language against his opponents..

there is so much to question about mirza’s life from his predictions to muhammadi begum issue…from his abusses to his involvement with women..and never to forget his interst with tonic wine…

i can provide all the refrences inshallah for statement i have given above…

all in all just by looking at mirza sahibs profile no sane person can belive him as prophet…

Our ulema have given suffiecient evidence aginst al ur primary issues…no need to dsicuss that…

if u want to read about our responses do read ..moulana yousaf ludhyanvi 's book * tohafa e qadiyaniat * this is a 4 volume book .. and is best on the subject …

happy reading…