Ahmadis

Assalamo Alaikum,

I happen to be an ahmadi. Many people ask what the difference is between us and mainstream Muslims is. The answer is, that we do not believe that Hazrat Isa (as) will come back down from the sky but he has died like all other Prophets have died. We also believe that prophethood can be continued after the Holy Prophet (saw). The law of Rasulallah (saw) is complete, however, just as Jesus came for the reform of the Jews who rejected him, The Promised Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) came for the reform of the Muslims. And just as Jesus was a lesser prophet that Moses (as), Hazrat Ahmad (as) is a far lesser prophet that the Holy Prophet (saw).

Other than these two points, there is no difference between the mainstream followers of Abu Hanif, or Hanfiyya sect. We believe that the four caliphs of Rasulallah (saw) were pure souls, men of Allah. We believe that Rasulallah (saw) was Khatamun Nabiyyen. But Khatam to us does not mean “finished.”

I would like to take questions from people. But I have a few rules. No derogatory remarks firstly. All the questions will be based on our doctrinal differences. Character assasination does nobody any good. The Jews raised questions on the character of Jesus (as), the Christians raise question on the Holy Prophet (saw) and the present masses raise questions on the character of the Promised Messiah (as). The final point is, only one question at a time please, so it can be discussed in detail.

If the respected moderators feel that this is going to stir trouble, then feel free to delete.
Wasalam,
Hasee

This topic will be locked in about 2 days i predict.

You cannot expect to post a thread about mirza ahmed who you call messiah and not expect a hostile reception.

I have been to many discussions where they start talking about ahmedhis and it always ends in arguments muslims cannot except this concept of ahmedhis belief because they feel it is mocking and calling islam incorrect.

If people were mature enough, it could be just a healthy discussion for learning sake. It's because people tend to be rude and abusive, that such posts get out of control and get locked. You learn other stuff out there, don't you ? Do you believe it all ? No... Same theory applies here.
Understand it, so that if you hear wrong comments about Ahmadis, then you can say this is what you know and this is what you don't know. Hear it from the horse's mouth rather than hearing others with little or no knowledge about this existing community of people.

It is merely due to the fact that people who DO NOT want to learn or
are disinterested about the belief system of others, that they resolve to mocking and bad mouthing. However, if there was serious discussion involved, there is no need for bad discussion or an ill feeling. Nobody is saying you have to believe the Ahmadi belief, but to shun it and be rude about it is hurtful to the members of the Ahmadi community.

If you want your belief system respected, then learn to respect others for what its worth.

C'est ca !

My aim atleast is to try and discuss and clear the misconceptions that arise due to our faith. I would like to ask those who would want to swear or abuse us or our faith, that was this the practise of the Holy Prophet (saw) or is there any instance of sahabah swearing or abusing or even imposing their faith on others?

Hazrat Abu Bakr once stood listening to the cursing of an opponent. He didn't utter a way. The Holy Prophet (saw) passed and remained silent. This was until Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) replied, and he (saw) left the company. When asked why, his (saw) reply was: "O Abu Bakr, until the time you were silent, the angels were answering for you. But at the time you answered, the devil appeared and I do not keep company with him."

Based on this, can any true muslim act in a hostile way? I believe this is a noble quality found on this forum where moderators have prohibited cursing matches. I for one shall not enter such contests.

I thus believe that it is perfectly possible for us to discuss the issue of Isa's (as) death and Ahmad (as) through the Qu'ran and Sunnah. Two sources that cannot be denied.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask, abiding by the rules that I set in my first post.

Book 031, Number 5914:
Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported that Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) left 'Ali b. Abi Talib behind him (as he proceeded) to the expedition of Tabuk, whereupon he ('Ali) said: Allah's Messenger, are you leaving me behind amongst women 4nd children? Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me.

Book 031, Number 5915:
This hadith has been narrated. on the authority of Shu'ba with the same chain of transmitters. Amir b. Sa'd b. Abi Waqqas reported on the authority of his father that Muawiya b. Abi Sufyin appointed Sa'd as the Governor and said: What prevents you from abusing Abu Turab (Hadrat 'Ali), whereupon be said: It is because of three things which I remember Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) having said about him that I would not abuse him and even if I find one of those three things for me, it would be more dear to me than the red camelg. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say about 'Ali as he left behind hrin in one of his campaigns (that was Tabuk). 'All said to him: Allah's Messenger, you leave me behind along with women and children. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said to him: Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there is no prophethood after me. And I (also) heard him say on the Day of Khaibar: I would certainly give this standard to a person who loves Allah and his Messenger and Allah and his Messenger love him too. He (the narrator) said: We have been anxiously waiting for it, when he (the Holy Prophet) said: Call 'Ali. He was called and his eyes were inflamed. He applied saliva to his eyes and handed over the standard to him, and Allah gave him victory. (The third occasion is this) when the (following) verse was revealed:" Let us summon our children and your children." Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) called 'Ali, Fitima, Hasan and Husain and said: O Allah, they are my family.

Book 031, Number 5920:
Yazid b. Hayyan reported, I went along with Husain b. Sabra and 'Umar b. Muslim to Zaid b. Arqam and, as we sat by his side, Husain said to him: Zaid. you have been able to acquire a great virtue that you saw Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) listened to his talk, fought by his side in (different) battles, offered prayer behind me. Zaid, you have in fact earned a great virtue. Zaid, narrate to us what you heard from Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). He said: I have grown old and have almost spent my age and I have forgotten some of the things which I remembered in connection with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), so accept whatever I narrate to you, and which I do not narrate do not compel me to do that. He then said: One day Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) stood up to deliver sermon at a watering place known as Khumm situated between Mecca and Medina. He praised Allah, extolled Him and delivered the sermon and. exhorted (us) and said: Now to our purpose. O people, I am a human being. I am about to receive a messenger (the angel of death) from my Lord and I, in response to Allah's call, (would bid good-bye to you), but I am leaving among you two weighty things: the one being the Book of Allah in which there is right guidance and light, so hold fast to the Book of Allah and adhere to it. He exhorted (us) (to hold fast) to the Book of Allah and then said: The second are the members of my household I remind you (of your duties) to the members of my family. He (Husain) said to Zaid: Who are the members of his household? Aren't his wives the members of his family? Thereupon he said: His wives are the members of his family (but here) the members of his family are those for whom acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. And he said: Who are they? Thereupon he said: 'Ali and the offspring of 'Ali, 'Aqil and the offspring of 'Aqil and the offspring of Ja'far and the offspring of 'Abbas. Husain said: These are those for whom the acceptance of Zakat is forbidden. Zaid said: Yes.

read and appreciate

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/031.smt.html

p.s. all three of the hadiths i posted clearly shows you that there won’t be another Prophet…also Prophet (pbuh&up) telling everyone that he is leaving behind Quran and Ahle Bait…this is all from sahih muslim..again read it and appreciate their greatness..their azmat

Thank you for posting the ahadith and asking your question. The main and central part of the hadith you quoted is "Aren't you satisfied with being unto me what Aaron was unto Moses but with this exception that there would be no prophet after me." Let me add, that there have been other versions too, Muslim: Kitab Al Fazail's version says "except you are not a prophet" and Masnad Ahmad (reference 331/1) relates "But do not become a prophet."

The story goes that Hazrat Ali (ra) was left behind and to guard over Medina and was denied going to war so the Holy Prophet said this to him. The principal arabic word for what has been translated as "after" is "ba'adee" and this argument is known as "La Nabiyya Ba'adee."

Although the person came two centuries before the Haz. Ahmad (as), Hazrat Shah Waliullah Mohaddes Dehlavi, universally acknowledged as the Mujaddid (reformer) of the 12th century and very well known to Muslims of the sub-continent and who is held in high esteem by these people, writes in Quratul Aineen Fi Tafseel Alshaikhain pg. 602: “It must be clearly understood that the object of this Hadith is to highlight the appointment of Hazrat Ali (Allah be pleased with him) to act in the place of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) when he was to be absent from Medina during his expedition to Tabuk. Also, to highlight Hazrat Ali’s resemblance to Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) when Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) had journeyed to the Mount. It is to be noted that the word ‘Ba’adee’ (after me) here means‘Ghairi’ (beside me). It does not mean after me in time.

As we read in the Holy Quran “Fa Maeen Yahdehe Mim Ba’adillah” “Who, then, will guide him other than Allah?“ (Ch. 45, v . 24). Here the word ‘Ba’adee’ has not been used in the sense of ‘after me’ as Hazrat Haroon (peace be on him) did not outlive Hazrat Musa (peace be on him) while Hazrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) lived after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) to make this exception of ‘Ba’adee’ meaning ‘after me’ was therefore not appropriate.”

So from the Qu'ran, it is shown that ba'adee means "besides" as opposed to "after me."

Re: Ahmadis

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Hash00: *
Assalamo Alaikum,

I happen to be an ahmadi. Many people ask what the difference is between us and mainstream Muslims is. The answer is, that we do not believe that Hazrat Isa (as) will come back down from the sky but he has died like all other Prophets have died. We also believe that prophethood can be continued after the Holy Prophet (saw). The law of Rasulallah (saw) is complete, however, just as Jesus came for the reform of the Jews who rejected him, The Promised Messiah, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) came for the reform of the Muslims. And just as Jesus was a lesser prophet that Moses (as), Hazrat Ahmad (as) is a far lesser prophet that the Holy Prophet (saw).

Other than these two points, there is no difference between the mainstream followers of Abu Hanif, or Hanfiyya sect. We believe that the four caliphs of Rasulallah (saw) were pure souls, men of Allah. We believe that Rasulallah (saw) was Khatamun Nabiyyen. But Khatam to us does not mean "finished."

I would like to take questions from people. But I have a few rules. No derogatory remarks firstly. All the questions will be based on our doctrinal differences. Character assasination does nobody any good. The Jews raised questions on the character of Jesus (as), the Christians raise question on the Holy Prophet (saw) and the present masses raise questions on the character of the Promised Messiah (as). The final point is, only one question at a time please, so it can be discussed in detail.

If the respected moderators feel that this is going to stir trouble, then feel free to delete.
Wasalam,
Hasee
[/QUOTE]

With no attention of entering in debate I want to make the following comments.

For a start Hanifiyyah is not a sect but a school of thought in Mainstream Muslims!

[QUOTE]
But Khatam to us does not mean "finished."
[/QUOTE]

Try telling that to an Arab! Khatam DOES mean FINISHED in Arabic, it also means the SEAL,[that means it seals the Prophethood. So, once sealed nobody can lay claim to any ‘grade’ of Prophethood for himself/herself.] and it also means 'attainment of supremacy in an attribute/quality' [for example: When one says “Foot-ball ‘khataams on Pele”. It means that nobody can surpass Pele in football skill.]

Any word used in the Quran carries the meaning which fits in the context of the subject.

No wonder that you have no Arabs as Ahmadis except for few who can be counted on digits of two hands. They know their language and cannot be fooled with 'twisting' of meanings in their language.

Explain your stance on numerous hadiths which clearly state that there is not Prophet that leaves no grounds for a ‘lesser Prophet’ or a ‘shadow Prophet’ at all and the hadith further state that anyone who makes such a claim is a liar and a fraud.

/\ /\

The Holy Quran says: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Apostle of Allah and Khataman Nabiyyeen--The Seal of the Prophets." (33:41)

The real meaning of Khatam is a seal (see Tajul Aroos, Lisanul Arab, and Qamoos), and the phrase should be interpreted in the light of this meaning. Ibn Khaldun says it is wrong to interpret the word Khatam in this verse to mean the last or the end (see Muqaddama Vol. II, p. 54, Paris). He holds that the word Khatam denotes the consummation and completion of a thing, which he further explains by the words, authenticity, perfection and validity. When a seal is put to a letter it becomes authentic and complete. The seal may be put in the end or in the beginning. According to him, therefore, Khataman Nabiyyeen would mean the truest and the most perfect of prophets and not the last in point of time. It refers to his status and place among the prophets and not to the time of his advent.

USE OF THE WORD KHATAM:

In one of his sayings the Holy ProphetSAW calls his uncle, Hadhrat Abbasra, Khatamul Muhajireen (see Kanzul Ommal, Vol. VI, p. 178). But it does not mean that Abbas was the last Muhajir (refugee) of the whole Muslim world.

Similarly, Hadhrat Alira is called Khatamul Auliya (see Tafsir Safi under the Quranic verse 33:41). Ibn Khaldun says this phrase is understood to mean that Ali was a perfect saint and not the last (see Muqaddama, Vol. II pp. 165-167).

An Arab poet, Hasan bin Wahab, called Abu Tamam (the compiler of Himasa) Khatamush-Shu'ara (see Wafiyatul A'ayan Li Ibn Khallikan, Vol. I, p. 123, Cairo). Obviously Abu Tamam was not the last poet. The word Khatam, therefore, used in such phrases means the best and not the last.

The context of a verse is a most important factor in determining its true meaning. If we look into the context of the words we are further assured of the same meaning.

The verse runs as follows: "Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of God and Khataman Nabiyyeen." God is obviously refuting an objection, viz., Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) has no male issue. Elsewhere we read in the Quran: "Surely it is thy enemy and not thou who shall be childless and without posterity." (108:4)

These words are said to have been revealed when Al-Aas Ibn Wayel called the Holy ProphetSAW Abtar (having no children or posterity) on the death of his son Al-Qasim (see Jalaluddin's Commentary under verse 108:4). As an answer to this taunt of the enemies, God declared in the verse under discussion that the line of his physical male descendants is no doubt cut off by the death of his sons but as Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) is a Messenger of God, he possesses devoted followers who shall form a continuous and long line of spiritual descendants to keep his memory and name and teachings alive for ever and ever.

The followers of a prophet are often described as his spiritual children. The meaning of the word Khataman Nabiyyeen must fit with this context. To say that Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on him) is the last of the prophets and there shall be no prophet after him does no credit to him. His enemies could at once add an insult by saying that Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on be him) failed to produce a progeny in the spiritual sense of the word also and thus proved himself (God forbid) barren and abtar in every respect. According to the context, therefore, the Seal of the Prophets must mean that the spiritual descendants of Hadhrat Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on be him) would be of no mean order. They would, God says, attain to great spiritual distinctions so must so that by following in his footsteps some of them would even become prophets.

The Holy Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of God be on be him) is called here the Lord Privy Seal or the Lord Keeper of the great Divine Seal of Prophethood, which not only ratifies and authenticates the office of the previous prophets but also awards the distinctive mark of prophethood to those who make themselves worthy of it. (Haqeeqatul Wahy by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, p. 56) We read in the Bible: "The Lord will make thee the head and not the tail; thou shalt be above only and thou not be beneath." (Deuteronomy 28:13)

To be the tail of a line, therefore, is no credit or distinction. Even if we take the phrase Khataman Nabiyyeen to mean the last of the prophets; we must interpret it as meaning that he is the last in the sense that he has attained a degree of perfection beyond which it is impossible for anyone to go. He has exhausted all the degrees of perfection and none can ever excel or supersede him. He is the Head of the prophets and not the tail.

we muslims reject anyone who claims prophethood after Muhammad (saw).....
and who wishes to believe in any such fake prophets he can call himself whatever he wishes but not a muslim....

ghulam ahmad qadiyani tried to convince people by whatever they wud buy....
he claimed to be god....
he claimed to be prophet....
he claimed to be a messiah....
the promised mehdi....
whatever anyone wud buy, whatever he cud do to fool people....

Brother Armughal's indirect question is to the claims of the Promised Messiah. And it is indeed true, he first laid claim to being the Mujaddid of the 14th century, and then to being the Mahdi, Isa, the reformer of the age- but there is no reference for him claiming to be God. Neither is it something we believe. But it is a concoted tail that ahmadis believe Hazrat Ahmad (as) to be God, just to spread hate.

Firstly, let it be noted, that these are not on the different lines. They build upon each other. It is said about Jesus:
*[19:31] Jesus said, 'I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;

[19:32] 'And He has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live; *

Which means he spoke before revelation, just has the Holy Prophet (saw) had spoken before revelation until it was bestowed upon him at the age of 40. In the same way, his views may have differed before and after revelation.

In a similar way, a Mujaddid is the reformer of the century and there has been no claimant for the 15th century, which means that it has ended. All of the Muslims universally accept the coming of a Mujaddid ever century, but have no answer as to one of this century.

Laila Mahdi ila Isa ibne Maryam from Ibn Majah means "there is no Mahdi other than Isa son of Mary," which shows that they can be the same person.

Regarding the issue of Khatamei Nabuwwat, there is a distinct difference between what is khatam and khatim. The difference is the "i" and the "a." Zakiahmad has shown how Khatam means the highest.

We believe that the Holy Prophet is the highest ranking prophet. But this does not mean that he would not have been a prophet after him.

*Hazrat lmam Fakhruddin Razi (544 A.H.), in his book Tafseer Kabeer Razi vol. 6 pg. 31, writes:
“Fal Aqal Khatum… Khatamun Nabbiyeen Kana Afzalul Anbiyya.” Meaning intellect is the culmination of all human faculties. The culminating point is the pinnacle. Do you not see that prophethood reached its zenith when the Holy Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be on him) was declared ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’: *

Hazrat Abu Saeed Mubarak lbne Ali Makhrumi (died 513 A.H.) the patron saint of no less a person than Hazrat Syed Abdul Qadir Gilani (may Allah have mercy on him) says “Wal Ahkhara.....Wa
Sallama Khatamun Nabbiyeen” - man holds the highest position in the Universe. When he soars high all the noble qualities in all their magnitude mentioned above find their manifestation in him and he is called The Perfect Man. Boundless, indeed, are the noblest qualities that found their perfection in our Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) and that is why the highest title of “Khatamun Nabbiyeen” was conferred upon him.” (Tohfah Mursala Sharif pg. 51)

Hazrat Maulana Rum (may Allah have mercy on him) (died 672 A.H.) says, “Behre Een Khatim Shud Ast.....Khatum Sanat Bar Too Ast.” The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was declared ‘Khatim’ because he excelled in munificence and in perpetuating the spiritual blessings to his followers. When a craftsman excels and achieves perfection, don’t we say that
craftsmanship has come to an end with him. (Masnavi Maulana Rum ch. 6 pg. 18-19)

Maulana Muhammad Qasim Naunotawi, chief of Deobandi sect(the sect which today is in the forefront of those distorting the meaning of ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’) writes: “Charged with the duty
of delivering Divine Commandments to the people, prophets may be likened to governors. They are God’s vicegerents on earth. They therefore hold a position of authority. The office of a governor or
minister is considered the highest in a chain of subordinate officers. A governor or a minister has the authority to set aside the orders or directives of his subordinates. Their orders, on the other hand, cannot be set aside by the subordinate officers. The final authority rests with the governor. Similarly, the one in whom prophethood found its perfection was declared The Seal of The Prophets - ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’, as there is no rank higher than his. (Mobahesa Shahjahanpur pg.24- 25).

In the 6th century, Hijra, Hazrat Mohayuddin Ibn Arabi, the world renowned muslim scholar and commentator (died 638 A.H.), proclaimed in Fatoohat- i-Makkiyya (vol. I, pg. 545): “We know this
with certainty that in the Muslim Ummah there will be individuals whose status, according to Allah, will be of prophets but such prophethood will be without any new law or shariah.” He further writes: “Prophethood will continue in mankind till the Day of Resurrection although prophethood bearing a new shariah or law has come to an end. It must be realized, however, thatbringing a new law is one of the many duties of prophethood.” (Fatoohat- i-Makkiyya vol. 2, ch. 23,
pg- 100).
Again, in the same book (vol. 2, ch. 73, pg. 3) Hazrat Ibn Arabi states: “The prophethood which came to an end with the advent of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was
Tashri’ee Nubuwat - a prophet with a new book and new law. There is no room for suc h prophethood after the Holy Quran. This is the correct meaning of the Hadith, which contains the Holy Prophet’s saying that there is to be no prophet after him. The Hadith only conveys that after the Holy Prophet, there can be no prophet who will replace his Sharia with another one.
Henceforth, whenever any prophet comes, he will be subordinate to him and his Shariah.” How can anyone close his eyes to such a clear exposition of this subject of prophethood after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). Our opponents continue to deny this. They do not fear God.

*Similarly, Sheikh Bali Afandi (died 960 A.H.) wrote in Fusus Alhakam pg. 56: “Khatamur-Rosul is one after whom no law-bearing prophet can come.” *

The well-known Sufi in the Islamic world, Hazrat lmam Abdul Wahab Shairani, who died in 1568 A.H., categorically states in his book Al-Yawaqeet-0-Wal-Jawahir vol. III pg. 35: “Remember that
prophethood has not disappeared. Prophets can appear. The prophethood that has ceased to exist is only that which brings with it a new law.”

The famous saint, Hazrat Syed Abdul Karim Gilani (died 767 A-H.) wrote: ‘With the advent of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) prophethood bearing a new law came to an end. The Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was called ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’ because with his advent, The Law was completed and perfected.“ (Al-lnsan-ul-Kamil vol. I chapter
36 pg. 69 edition I 1316 A.H.).

Hazrat Sheikh Abdul Qadir Al-Kurdistani wrote: “The title ‘Khatamun-Nabbiyeen’ conferred on the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) means that after him a law-bearing
prophet will not come.” (Taqreed Almaram vol. 2 pg. 233).

Closer to our own period, there is the proclamation of the founder of Madrasatul Uloom, Deoband, Hazrat Maulvi Muhammad Qasim Naunotawi (who died in 1889). He says in Tahzeer Alnas page 3: “The general public may conceive that ‘Khatamun Nabbiyeen’ means that the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) was the last of the prophets but people of knowledge and understanding know it very well that being the first or last does not necessarily connote excellence. The words “Wala Kin Rasool Lallahe Wa Khatamun Nabbiyeen” are designed to convey the Holy Prophet’s (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) exalted and unequalled status and this alone is the correct interpretation. Khatamiyyat is not in any way rejected or denied if a prophet appears after the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). But if Khatamiyyat is only taken to mean the last prophet, this would be a disparaging interpretation. Such an interpretation would not be acceptable to followers of Islam.” Here the founder of the Deoband Movement clearly states that calling the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) the last prophet is a disparaging remark. Yet his followers now claim this to be their fundamental belief.

From a brelvi leader, Maulavi Abu Al Hasnat Abdul Haye of Farangimahal, Lucknow, expounding his view on ‘Khatame- Nabbuwat’ writes: “The advent of a mere prophet after the
Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) or in his lifetime is not an impossibility. To introduce a new law is indeed not permissible.” (Dafiul-Waswas 2nd edition page 16). The Maulana further asserts that it is not only his view but “Ulema Ahle-Sunnat also subscribe to the view that following the advent of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) no law-bearing prophet can come. The prophethood of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) is wide in scope. Any prophet who would now come would be from the Ummah and follow his Shariah.” (Majmuah Fatwa Maulvi Abdul Haye vol. 1 pg. 17)

Above are some of the most important and most widely followed scholars in Islam, try teaching Khatam means finished to them. These are muslims too and it wasn't difficult for them to believe that there can be another prophet.

there is no prophet after muhammad(saw) this is the most basic tenant that even 5 year old kids understand.

how you going around saying there another prophet after SAW you cannot call yourself a muslim with that statement simple as that.

Let’s see what Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, himself, believed regarding this issue (Finality of the Prophethood) and the best source for this is his own books!

He has stated in very irrevocable and clear terms what he understood the Finality of Prophethood meant which sadly has been later twisted by himself and his followers to the opposite effect.

**Hash00/ and other Ahmadis ** - Please try to explain the following words of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. There are 15 quotations from his books. I have got this from the following link: http://www.muslim.org/noclaim/affirms.htm *.

The link also provides the scans of the relevant reference pages just in case some one has any doubts.

"Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad declared again and again that his belief is that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam an-nabiyyin (or Khatam al-anbiya), and that this means that no prophet whatsoever can come after him . Some such statements are given below.

Here we have quoted only those statements in which he has specifically used the terms Khatam an-nabiyyin or Khatam al-anbiya. He has also made other statements, without reference to this term, again affirming that the Prophet Muhammad was the Last Prophet after whom no prophet whatsoever can come.

  1. In his book Izala Auham, he quotes the Khatam an-nabiyyin verse of the Quran (ch. 33, v. 40), and then translates it into Urdu as follows:

“That is to say, Muhammad is not the father of any man from among you, but he is the Messenger of Allah, and the one to end the prophets.”
Here he has translated the term Khatam an-nabiyyin as meaning
**one to end the prophets ** * (Urdu: “khatam karnai wala hai nabiyon ka”). *

He then comments: “This verse also clearly argues that, after our Holy Prophet, no messenger shall come into the world. Therefore, it is proved perfectly manifestly that the Messiah, son of Mary, cannot return to this world.” (Izala Auham, p. 614. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 3, p. 431)

  1. “The Holy Quran does not permit the coming of any messenger (rasul) after the Khatam an-nabiyyin**, whether a new one or an old one.” ** * (Izala Auham, p. 761. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 3, p. 511) *

  2. "The fact that our Holy Prophet is the Khatam al-anbiya also requires the death of Jesus because **if another prophet comes after him, he cannot remain the Khatam al-anbiya, ** nor can the type of revelation given to prophets be considered as terminated. The return of Jesus is not mentioned anywhere in the Holy Quran, but **the ending of prophethood is mentioned perfectly clearly. ** To make a distinction between the coming of an old prophet * and a new prophet is mischievous.

Neither the Hadith nor the Quran make such a distinction, and the negation contained in the hadith report `There is no prophet after me’ is general. What audacity, boldness and insolence it is to depart from the clear meaning of the Quran, in pursuit of one’s feeble conjectures, and believe in the coming of a prophet after the Khatam al-anbiya!." * (Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 146. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, p. 392-393) *

Here Hazrat Mirza has clearly taken the term Khatam al-anbiya about the Holy Prophet Muhammad to mean that the Prophet Muhammad was the Last Prophet after whom no prophet at all can come.

  1. " Muhammad ... is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin.' Do you not know that the Merciful Lord has declared our Holy Prophet to be the Khatam al-anbiya **unconditionally, ** and our Holy Prophet has explained this in his words: There is no prophet after me’, which is a clear explanation for the seekers of truth." * (Hamamat al-Bushra, p. 81-82. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 7, p. 200) *

  2. “The Holy Prophet had **repeatedly said that no prophet would come after him, ** and the hadith There is no prophet after me' was so well-known that no one had any doubt about its authenticity. And the Holy Quran, every word of which is binding, in its verse he is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin’, confirmed that prophethood has in fact ended with our Holy Prophet . Then how could it be possible that any prophet should come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad, according to the real meaning of prophethood? This would have destroyed the entire fabric of Islam.” * (Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 184, footnote. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 13, pp. 217-218) *

  3. “In brief, God by naming the Holy Prophet as Khatam an-nabiyyin in the Quran, and the Holy Prophet himself by saying `There is no prophet after me’ in Hadith, had settled the matter that no prophet can come after the Holy Prophet , in terms of the real meaning of prophethood.” * (Kitab al-Barriyya, p. 185, footnote. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 13, p. 218) *

  4. “By saying `There is no prophet after me’, the Holy Prophet Muhammad **closed the door absolutely to any new prophet or the return of any old prophet.” ** * (Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 152. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, p. 400) *

  5. "Allah says: He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin.' And it is in the Hadith: There is to be no prophet after me.’ ** … If another prophet were to come, whether new or old, how could our Holy Prophet be the Khatam al-anbiya?‘’** * Ayyam as-Sulh, p. 74. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 14, pp. 308-309) *

  6. **"It does not befit God that He should send a prophet after the Khatam an-nabiyyin, or that He should re-start the system of prophethood after having terminated it.‘’ ** * (Ainah Kamalat Islam, p. 377. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 5, p. 377) *

  7. "I firmly believe that our Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam al-anbiya, and after him no prophet shall come for this Muslim people, neither new nor old." *(Nishan Asmani, p. 28. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 4, p. 30) *

  8. “The actual fact, to which I testify with the highest testimony, is that our Holy Prophet is the Khatam al-anbiya, and **after him no prophet will come, neither any old one nor any new one.” ** * (Anjam Atham, p. 27, footnote. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 11, p. 27) *

  9. “The Holy Quran, in the verses, This day I have perfected for you your religion', and He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin’, has ended prophethood with the Holy Prophet Muhammad . And it has said in plain words that the Holy Prophet is **Khatam al-anbiya.” ** * (Tuhfa Golarwiya, p. 83. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 17, p. 174) *

  10. “As our Leader and Messenger, may peace and the blessings of God be upon him, is the Khatam al-anbiya, and **no prophet can come after him, ** for this reason saints have been substituted for prophets in this Shari`ah.” * (Shahadat-ul-Quran, pages 23-24. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 6, pp. 323-324) *

  11. "It should be believed from the bottom of the heart that prophethood has terminated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad,
    as God Almighty says: He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam an-nabiyyin. *To deny this verse, or to belittle it, is in fact to separate oneself from Islam. … It should be known that God has ended all His prophethoods and messengerships with the Holy Quran and the Holy Prophet." ** * (Al-Hakam, 17 August 1899)

  12. "Allah is the Being Who … made Adam and sent messengers and scriptures, **and last of all sent Muhammad ** — may peace and the blessings of Allah be upon him — who is the Khatam al-anbiya and the best of messengers.‘’ (Haqiqat al-Wahy, p. 141. Ruhani Khaza’in, vol. 22, p. 145) "

Now try to deny that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad didn’t mean what he wrote.

I would urge other posters on this thread to let the Ahmadis address this issue before moving on to other issues and not fall for their diversionary tactics to avoid explaining the above quotations from his books.**

Ak47:
Salam,
Firstly, you speak of the belief of Rasulallah (saw) being the last prophet as an article of faith, just kalima, fasting, namaz, zakaat and hajj are in Islam. People have included it in the kalima that he is the last prophet. But translate the Kalima: "La ilaha" = There is no God "Ilala" = other than Allah "Muhammadur Rasulallah" Muhammad is the Messanger of Allah. Some people translate this as "the last prophet," where it is impossible for anyone with basic knowledge of arabic to believe that this means the last prophet.

In saying that it is a basic belief, you have declared all of the scholars above, which include the leaders of the Deobandi and Brelvi sect as liars, who both accept that there can be prophethood.
Wasalam,
Hasee binth TAAR

Assalam o alaikum to all muslims...

Just as a comment......
why discuss an issue on which we have discussed several times and never reached on consensus.....

hashuuu ......have u ever noticed that while drinking a tap water what u do...u first check the opening /nosel of the tap..if it is clean then u accept an apparent clean water otherwise reject it.....

i can see this here...mirzais are always shy to discuss the personality of mirza sahib.....his personal wrongdongd...his personal behaviour....his family background...all this do count when some one claims to be prophet.....

just as a side note....

HAve u ever noticed that while mentioning prophjets/nabis alaihussalam ALLAh always in quran mention past and present tense ..and never use future tense......

Am in hurry now...will inshallah come back later....

wasalam to all muslims...

Ibn Sadique Saheb,
Salam,
Thanks for taking the time to do some proper research. Let me explain first, that there are two groups that follow Hazrat Ahmad (as). One is the lahori group, as the people who built the site you quoted from and there belief is that Hazrat Ahmad (as) was a mujaddid but not a prophet (I'm sure you would understand the difference). We, as Ahmadis, believe that he was a prophet. This is the only difference.

Firstly, they accepted our first khalifa and his beliefs, but since then, they didn't accept the second khalifa (ra) and thus left Qadian, for Lahore.

Regarding the "confusion in belief" which seems to appear, the answer is simple. The statements above were made in a time that preceeded revelation. Jesus had spoken as a baby then as a man. In two phases. Just like that, the Promised Messiah spoke before and after revelation (which was the reason why the above lines are before he was told). Ask yourself, did the Holy Prophet (saw) believe in the angels, before he had seen one?

"Take careful note of this point, and always bear it in mind, that I am not a Rasul and Prophet in the sense of having brought a new Sharia, a new claim, and a new name; and I am a Nabi and a Rasul, that is with respect of perfect Zilliyyat, I am the mirrors in which the qualities and Nabuwwat of the Holy Prophet Mohammad, Peace be upon him, have been reflected perfectly." (Nozul-ul-Masih, page 3)

"There is a kind of Nabuwwat which has not come to an end: the Nabuwwat which comes after the perfect obedience of the Holy Prophet Mohammad: that Nabuwwat which takes light from his Lamp, that Nabuwwat has not ended, because, really speaking, this Nabuwwat is the zill of the Nabuwwat of the Holy Prophet and is given through him and is its manifestation and is obtained through his medium," (Chashma-i-Marifat, Page 324)

These books are proceeding his commisioning.

Wasalam,
Hasee binth TAAR

anyway it has been well-established that ahmadis/qadiyanis r non-muslims and there is not a single muslim scholar who differs in this opinion....

so dont waste ur times on this 'dead and burried' issue....

Mr Bao Bihari i read your comments regarding you saying that. Ahmadis are always shy to talk bout the character of Mirza Sahib (AS).

Should i also say this Other main stream muslims are Shy to talk about the Character of HOly Prophet (saw) NAOZOBILLAH when Christain attack on him.

Same way you will reply the alligation we will too but the diffrence is we dont use any filth language when replying.