Here it is:
[2.62] Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in Allah and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them, nor shall they grieve
May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right
AA,
Its a shame when people, most of them god fearing, in their religious zeal (although good intentioned)prosecute and make life a living hell for people who interpret Islam differently.
Live and let live, no one has the ownership of Islam. You can not force your ideas on everyone and declare all people who differ from you as Kafirs.
Another rather foolish thinking is that Ahmadis and others are spreading lies and corrupting Islam, essentially destroying it.
Well let me ask you a question do you think that God will not protect his religion ? Are you going to protect God's religion for him ? Even prophet Mohammed was told by God to leave others as they are (surat Kafiroon).
You can't judge between people, so don't pass judgement on a people you only heard about ? This exactly how the west sees the muslims today they hear stories and generalize and think all muslims are terrorist.
I don't know about Bahis much but Ahmadis are 99.9% the same as sunni except that they say the Ghulam Ahmed is the Messiah. So, even if they are wrong they are still no different then sunnis as far the rest of the fiqh goes except for one difference, and it doesn't make them kafir.
Man is the root of all evil ... and good!
For those who "act like a Muslim, and sting like a Qadiyaani"
16:25 Let them bear, on the Day of Judgment, their own burdens in full, and also (something) of the **burdens of those without knowledge, whom they misled.** Alas, how grievous the burdens they will bear!
This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you **Islam as your religion.* - Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 3
S G,
You should have quoted the verse before & after it too! 
Allah says:
Are we the ones who have apposed Allah’s prophets?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif
We are the ones who have believed in those who came before and and also those who came in the later days!
But can you say the same for yourself? Aren’t you the one who is apposing the prophet of Allah?
What would you say about ** Hadrat Abu Bakr (R) ** who waged war against musailma , who also had claimed prophethood ?
Now, this was a ** HISTORIC EVENT **. You cannot brush it aside by the excuse of “weak hadeeth” or “this word or that word can also have another meaning”.
Anyways, I’ve trouble accepting a false “prophet” who died in his own $hit
Khoon-e-Shaheed,
Indeed it's a historical fact! And its also a historical fact that Musailma negated the Islamic teachings & considered Quran as imperfect; challenged the prophethood of AnHazoor (saw), reduced the prayers to three, considered drinking allowed ... the list goes on...
Did Hazrat Abu Bakar (ra) campaigned against him because he declared himself a prophet or because he refused to pay Zakat (tax) & refused to follow the state orders & started forming an army to rebel aganist the Khalifa-e-waqat, is a seperate historical discussion!
On the other hand, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) submitted himself totally under the Seal of all prophets Hazrat Muhammad-o-Mustafa (saw) & claimed to be the promised one prophesized by his beloved Master as the savior of Islam;
He writes in his book Haqeeqatul-Wahi:
[quote]
It would not have been possible for me to have attained this grace if I had not followed the footsteps of my lord and master, the pride of all prophets, the best of mankind, Muhammad, the chosen one, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him. Whatever I have achieved by following him, and I know from my truly verified experience that no man can reach God to obtain a deeper understanding of His ways without following this Prophet, may peace and blessings of Allah be upon him.
[/quote]
Then in Izala-e-Auham he explains his views on the teachings of Islam as:
[quote]
The gist of our faith is: *la ilaha illallaho Muhammad-ur-rasoolullah *(There is no god but Allah, Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah.) Our belief, which we hold in this life here on earth and to which we will continue to adhere firmly till the time that we pass on to the next world, is that **our spiritual leader and Master, Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, is khataman-nabiyyeen, the seal of the prophets and the best of the messengers. At his hands religion has been consummated which guide man on the right path and further on to God Himself. We hold this belief with absolute certainty that the Holy Quran is the khatamul-kutub, the seal of all divine books, and not an iota can be added to or subtracted from its prescribed teachings, inhibitions, commands and injunctions. **There will be no revelation or word from God which may **amend or abrogate **or change or alter any of the injunctions of the Holy Quran.
[/quote]
... and the list goes on ... :)
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
[/quote]
Thank you for your reply. But I'm left with one question. If he followed the Holy Prophet (S), then where did he differ ? If he did not differ, then what was his purpose ? If his purpose was nothing more than revival, then why did he have to be a prophet ? And I believe Lahori Qadianis do not accept him as a Prophet, then how are they different from other Qadianis?
And why is it a religious obligation for the Qadianis to accept him ? After all, if he didn't bring a new religion, then why aren't the people well off following the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) ?
Even according to Mainstream Islam, belief in the Mahdi is not an article of faith. For example, if there's an uneducated or less informed Muslim, who only knows the basics of Islam, and knows nothing about Mahdi or the concept of Mahdi, then he's ** still a Muslim. ** Because belief in the Mahdi is not a part of faith.
And why did ghulam qadian start a new group ? If he was a reviver, then creating a new group is creating divisions ?
Also, if a prophet was to be expected, ** Why didn't the Holy Prophet (S) inform us of him as he informed us about the Mahdi or the Dajjal ? ** (Both of them are not in the Qur'an).
I hope you'll answer these questions.
[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited May 09, 2002).]
>>>But I'm left with one question.
:) Are you sure its only one question?
I will answer them all. In the mean time maybe you need to ponder on if its necessary for the Jews to believe in Jesus (as) or not.
[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
***>>>But I'm left with one question.*
:) Are you sure its only one question?
I will answer them all. In the mean time maybe you need to ponder on if its necessary for the Jews to believe in Jesus (as) or not.**
[/quote]
Hehehe.. actually I realized it was over one question.. but some of them are pretty much inter related. (one leading to another).
Regarding the Jews, they were not required to believe that Moses (a.s) was the last prophet. And they had been ** informed in advance ** that they would have another Prophet.
You see the Qur'an, time and again, addresses the People of the Book, telling them that this Qu'ran is a confirmation of what is already with you. Allah is the Most Kind, Most Merciful.
If Allah had simply asked them to abandon their beliefs and adopt Islam (without confirming the earlier Prophets), it'd have been hard for them to do so. Cuz. they would be terribly confused, since till now they had firm belief that their religion was originally given by Allah, and all of a sudden, they are required to believe in a completely new religion !
Do you get my point ?
*Khoon-e-Shaheed: * What would you say about Hadrat Abu Bakr (R) who waged war against musailma , who also had claimed prophethood ? Now, this was a HISTORIC EVENT. You cannot brush it aside by the excuse of "weak hadeeth" or "this word or that word can also have another meaning". **
Before quoting or debating on religion, one must analyze what he/she is saying, like as you have quoted the example of Muslima Kazab. Though this is a perfect example of a false claimant of Prophethood. Allah in Quran says while addressing Holy Prophet(saw), that this Quran is not a tale of storyteller, indeed this a book from Great Allah, even if You(sa) had said anything which Allah had not revealed/said to you than Allah would have seized you with His right hand and cut off Your life vein. (Al-Haqqa last ruku)
In these verse Allah has clearly mentioned that anyone who pertain things to Allah, that HE has not said, than the punishment is grave. As in case of false Prophets, they cannot survive for long and would be killed and their followers perish. Likewise in another place verse (al-ahzaab ?) Allah says: for a Kazab(liar) his Kazab(lie) is sufficient to kill him.
Now think why we are surviving? Why we are doubling every year? Over 100 years ago in a very remote village, where there was no access to train or bus or emails or news, a single man claimed that he is appointed by Allah as a Imam Mahdi, and claimed that Alalh has told him that “I will spread your message to the corners of the world”.. today wherever you go you will find an Ahmadi…
Do you still think that a FALSE PROPHET CAN SURVIVE SO LONG IN THE NAME OF ALLAH? Think if can.
For over 100 years none is successful in eradicating us, neither Zia not your unanimous Islamic government. Are you still looking for a sign?
Khoon-e-Shaheed: *“Anyways, I've trouble accepting a false "prophet" who died in his own $hit”*
Let me say this again to, hope this might resolve your trouble…
Like the Jews over the span of 1400 years after Mosses, become morally ill, Allah(swt) sent a “MESSIAH” to heal them, but He (the Isa of Nazareth) was Rejected and was accused a cursed death on Cross, and His followers (Isaee/Nasaree) were persecuted through out the Hebrew empire....
Similar is situation today, over the span of 1400 years the Islam of today holds, it has lost all its spiritual values, Allah the merciful send a “MESSIAH” (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), to heal His chosen nation. Alas he was rejected and was accused a cursed death in Toilet and his followers (Mirzai/Qadiani) were persecuted day and out through out the unanimous Islamic empire.
Didn’t Holy Prophet said My ummah will be like Jews? Fear this if you can.
[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 10, 2002).]
Qadiani modus operandi is simply to jump start Qadianiyyat with issues like, the life and death of Hazrat Isa bin Maryam A.S., Mahdi (The Guided One), two yellow Sheets, Quran and Ahadith concerning these issues, Lunar and Solar eclipses, etc.
Qadianis are quick to start comparing Mirza with other notable and respected Muslims. I cannot find any justification for these discussions, without first agreeing on the person who is known to some people as the "Promised Messiah".
In the recent past there have been many impostors claiming to be the Promised Messiahs and the public quickly checked their backgrounds.
All these impostor Promised Messiahs reached their logical end. Charles Manson, son of a prostitute, is in jail for life for multiple murders; David Koresh and his followers were killed during a raid by the law enforcement agencies and Jim Jones committed suicide along with hundreds of his followers.
If it were not for the British Colonial Powers’ support for this anti-Islamic Movement, Mirza and his followers would have reached their end long time ago. Alas, his Mission has limped along, like that of Bahaullah of Iranian infamy.
To establish his name, character and claim to fame, we should take these simple issues to an Islamic Country where a panel of Muslim Scholars can decide: Who was this person, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, and what type of a being was he?
I request Muslim (no Qadianis please) doctors, thinkers, historians, psychologists, scholars and other experts on human development to render their opinion in the light of Mirza’s own announcements.
Otherwise, innocent people could be led to darkness!
Sholay, I would personally like to hear from some Nobel Award winning Muslim scientist as well. Your true Islam (not the phony one) is busy killing foreigners in Karachi and elsewhere. May be some of your scholars can explain that, if they are not busy killing. Namastee.
NYAHMEDY
I see you are no longer a Moderator!!
What a shame.
Anyway getting back to the point, you should be saying something like:
'O.K. no problem, let's scrutinise my leader'!!
But as usual, the red herring is thrown in the way.
Good move. But predictable!!
Choley, Yeah man, I am no longer a moderator, now you can sleep better at night. I didn’t know that mentioning of a Nobel Award winning Muslim scientist will make you that upset. My apologies.
NY
I'll name you one.
Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.
He invented one of the biggest lies and Cults in history and used Science to back him up. (eclipse)!
See Ya.
Ok, I will try to answer your questions one by one!
I treat the above as one question & the gist of it being Why a prophet or a reformer needed?
The answer to that is very simple & can be found on these very forums. The many different interpretations of ONE Islam and ONE Quran that all claim to be on the right path! So, who is to decide what is the true Islam? Isn’t God responsible to clear up all these misunderstandings?
So, the reformer, the Messiah, the Imam Mehdi is prophesized by the Holy Prophet (saw) to come at the time when his Ummah is in disarray, and there are a numerous Hadiths that point out the advent of such a reformer!
And God blesses someone with prophethood, it’s not a man made institution. And he blesses whomever he so wishes, who are we to question that we only need a reformer, not a prophet?
Here are a few more reasons/arguments given if you are interested to read.
As far as the Lahori Ahmadis jama’t is concerned .. Yes, the majority of them don’t believe in Hazrat Ahmad (as) as a prophet. This was not always their belief, nor was it the reason they separated in the first place. This belief is more of their effort to co-exist & be less persecuted in Pakistan. Anyway, I am not an expert on their beliefs, if you are interested you are more than welcome to explore their official web-site
[quote]
And why is it a religious obligation for the Qadianis to accept him ? After all, if he didn't bring a new religion, then why aren't the people well off following the Holy Prophet Muhammad (S) ?
Even according to Mainstream Islam, belief in the Mahdi is not an article of faith. For example, if there's an uneducated or less informed Muslim, who only knows the basics of Islam, and knows nothing about Mahdi or the concept of Mahdi, then he's still a Muslim. Because belief in the Mahdi is not a part of faith.
[/quote]
This question(s) tie into the question changez_like asked about why is it necessary to believe in the Promised Messiah? And would that mean those if someone doesn't, he/she will go to hell?
Answer: Ahmadis do not believe that all non-Ahmadis are bound to hell! As it’s the true teaching of Islam that it does not monopolize the salvation. Ahmadis point out the same verse of Quran that chngez_like pointed out to back this claim. As the verse says you do not have to believe in the Holy prophet (saw) of Islam and still have 'glad tidings' ... then who is Mirza Sahib (as) in comparison?
Though there is a difference among those who reject the arguments of a prophet based on innocence (the innocence can only judged by Allah), in comparison to those who chose to reject the prophets of Allah based on prejudice & go against him creating disorder, harming him, waging a war .. in other words rejecting Allahs signs! When God sends down a prophet its not a joke!!
It's ironic that at one end the Muslims of today admit that it’s the worse period on the Ummah & are longing for a reform, and some are trying day and night to bring back Khilafat, thinking that might help! Though the same people question why do we have to believe in that reformer who Allah send down as a reformer as its not part of the Aqeeda??!!
As a matter of fact this rejecting behavior of Muslims is another of the signs that Mirza Sahib (as) is the truthfulness! As the Jews rejected their Messiah with the same argument saying the commandments are there, given to Moses & we have the law, we don't need no one to tell us the right way!
So, if the Imam Mehdi (or Hazrat Isa (as)) appear today, whom do you think he will follow? Ahlay-Hadiths? Do you think the other 70 odd sects of Islam will follow him? What if the climant is from the Shia, do you think the majority of the Suni sects actually give any importance to it?
Each & every one of the sects who believe in the advent of the Messiah, want him to come from among them!
Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) of Qadiyan claimed to be both the Imam Mehdi & the Promised Messiah! He claimed to be that very Isa (as) that was prophesied to come. He claimed and proved from Quran that the first Isa (as) died a natural death, the one to come was to be like of Jesus but from within the Ummah of Hazrat Muhammad (saw), not the same Isa (as) from 2000 years ago who came as a prophet to Ummah of Musa (as).
In his book “Aik Ghulti ka Izala” (removing a misunderstanding) he clearly makes the above mentioned claims and also makes the argument that those who think that the same Messiah who came to the people of Israel will come to the people of Holy prophet (saw) are actually the ones who do NOT believe in true meaning of Khutum-e-Nabuwat. And he elaborates the point that the time of all other prophets has ended, and the only **ONE living prophet is the Holy Prophet (saw) of Islam **& all Reformers, Prophets, Mujadids and Auliyas are bound to come from the Ummah of this great prophet, not of any previous ones.
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 10, 2002).]
sholey,
If you think he caused the eclipse to occur then you probably believe he controls the Sun & the Moon too! :)
If you had talked to the Christian Missionaries or argued with the Jewish Rabis, you would know that they don't want to talk about the arguments, they want to scrutinize the life of the Holy Prophet (saw). That's the sole reason that every anti-Islamic site is full of Blasphemies on the character of the innocent of all, the Holiest, prophet of Islam, Muhammad (saw)
It's the norm of those who disbelieve the prophets of God!
No wonder the Jews till today accuse Hazrat Marryam (as) of fabrications & then Jesus (as) of an (Naozo-billah) accursed death.
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 10, 2002).]
OK. Let me just ask a simple question.
If Mirza was truly a reformer sent by Allah, then why on Gods green earth did Allah not allow him to visit MECCA or MEDINA and perform Hajj or Umra and visit the resting place of the Prophet PBUH?
002.196 And complete the Hajj or ‘umra in the service of Allah. But if ye are prevented (From completing it), send an offering for sacrifice, such as ye may find, and do not shave your heads until the offering reaches the place of sacrifice. And if any of you is ill, or has an ailment in his scalp, (Necessitating shaving), (He should) in compensation either fast, or feed the poor, or offer sacrifice; and when ye are in peaceful conditions (again), if any one wishes to continue the ‘umra on to the hajj, He must make an offering, such as he can afford, but if he cannot afford it, He should fast three days during the hajj and seven days on his return, Making ten days in all. This is for those whose household is not in (the precincts of) the Sacred Mosque. And fear Allah, and know that Allah Is strict in punishment.
002.197 For Hajj are the months well known. If any one undertakes that duty therein, Let there be no obscenity, nor wickedness, nor wrangling in the Hajj. And whatever good ye do, (be sure) Allah knoweth it. And take a provision (With you) for the journey, but the best of provisions is right conduct. So fear Me, o ye that are wise.
The Qibla and Sacred Masjid were both intact and many a people were going to pilgrimage during Mirzas life!
Mirza was not disabled, under curfew, injured, poor, exiled (in the beginning)or prevented by any other means.
He had ample opportunity to go whilst a Muslim in his early days!!
Can it be that Allahs chosen are denied the favour of visiting their Lords House?