Ahmadi's view of Bahai's

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
** there was a council islamic meeting in Saudia Arabia of many islamic countries in which they unanimously declared them non muslims.....
**
[/quote]

did'nt all the jewish tribes unanimously declared Jesus & his followers as non- believers/ heretic/ whatever?.... were they unanimously right in accusing Him? .. do they have the authority to reject the Prophet of God?... or do they have some legal authority from God to declare Him a fake prophet?

holy prophet said my ummah will be like Jews....

i guess i am just babling

***** zameen tumhara kuch nahin bigar saktee ager aasmaan say taluq pukhta ho *****

42

Its funny, how you use EXAMPLE of other prophets to validate the “prophethood” of Mirza Ghulam Qadiyaani.

Almost all prophet that were sent from God, people rejected them first. Jesus was rejected, moses of rejected, and the Last messenger of Allah, Mohammad(saw) was rejected as well. But then people believed them, and gave their lives for them. You know why? Because they proved that they were prophets, they performed miracles with the help of ALLAH.

Mirza Sahib don’t stand a chance. So stop acting like a Muslim and stinging like a Qadiyaani…the trick doesn’t work any more.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

43

Serial Guppy,

The answer to your question, can be found in the writings of the Promised Messiah (as).

He writes in Tazkira-tush-Shahadatain:

[quote]
O mankind! hearken, this is the prophecy of God Who made the Heavens and the Earth. He will spread this Movement in all the countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and arguments. Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who are living at present will die and not one of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of their posterity will also perish and they too will not see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the day of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken another turn but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief *and the third century from today will not have completed **when all those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and Christians will despair of his coming and entertaining misgivings shall give up their belief and there will be only one Faith in the world and one preceptor. **I came only to sow the seed. That seed has been sown by my hands. It will now grow and blossom forth and none dare retard its growth. *

[/quote]

The importance of 'three centuries' in this prophecy is that the followers of the first Messiah took nearly three centuries to profess their religion to unthinkable boundaries. And as the Messiah of Hazrat Muhammad (saw) is prophasized to be like the Messiah of Hazrat Musa (as), the history will be repeated! And it will be shining sign for the truthfulness of the word of the beloved Holy Prophet of Islam Hazrat Muhammad (saw)

Did you also know that this past year nearly 6 million joined Ahmadiyyat-the true Islam?

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 08, 2002).]

44

AJ, I know. No restlessness is in my heart… Islam teaches patience. And that is what we will do.

Six million is too high my friend. A year or so ago I heard 10 million, please.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

As I said, acting like a Muslim and stinging like a Qadiyaani trick worked for very long but it doesn’t work now in most cases! And its very cheap, cowardly trick to convert people to “qadianism,” while fooling them for something else!

There are some benefits of being a Qadiyaani for someone who is in subcontinent or in other war torn muslim lands:
-Get Visa to UK, USA, Canada, Germany very easily. (know some friends who were offered such a cheap deal for their faith!)

-British and jews suck up to you and you will be under their protection while they finance your propaganda.

I wonder, why the enemies of Islam support Qadiyaanis, then Ismaelis and all those cults which represent the opposite of kind of Islam which Mohammad taught!?!?!

You and I will die, but none knows what will happen tomorrow except Allah and he will play his game according to his will and as he wishes.

“through reason and arguments…”

Yeah right! Is that why Mirza Tahir has rejected many offers of holding a debate with Sunni scholars?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

45

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
Did you also know that this past year nearly 6 million joined Ahmadiyyat-the true Islam?
**
[/quote]

The year before, it was over 40 million and last year it was over 80 million.

Every year the numbers are doubling... every nation is drinking water from this divine fountain... and Inshallah the days are not far when Islam will only be recognized through this sect.

46

.... and as far as the serial guppies (and his friends, including saima husnain) curiosity is concerned... all i can ask them to fear Allah and ask Him for the guidance to seek the truth, instead of following the “unanimous Islamic government” (which has so far failed miserably even to remove despair and agony from the Muslim world). Trust me they are not Gods except Allah, He is great and He has no partner.

In the last reply above, why i compared Jews with Muslims like you, that's for you to ponder over. However let me give you some tips.
Holy Prophet said, Isa ibn mariam will come to revive Islam, this is a metaphorical term meaning a person similar to the qualities of Isa will come and His coming will also be like him.

Like the Jews over the span of 1400 years after Mosses, become morally ill, Allah(swt) sent a “MESSIAH” to heal them, but He (the Isa of Nazareth) was Rejected and was accused a cursed death on Cross, and His followers (Isaee/Nasaree) were persecuted through out the Hebrew empire....

Similar is situation today, over the span of 1400 years the Islam of today holds, it has lost all its spiritual values, Allah the merciful send a “MESSIAH” (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian), to heal His chosen nation. Alas he was rejected and was accused a cursed death in Toilet and his followers (Mirzai/Qadiani) were persecuted day and out through out the unanimous Islamic empire.

need more points to compare dot by dot.. i will glad to ,, but the thing is, the time has changes but Human behaviour in rejecting Prophets has not.

Trust me coming of a Prophet is not a curse but a divine blessing, but only for those who fear God.

Your interpretation of Holy Prophet being a last Prophet, does not exalt Him anyway on the canvas of religions.... or does it?

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited May 08, 2002).]

47

>>The year before, it was over 40 million and last year it was over 80 million. <<

My apologies, I am not very good with numbers.

48

Sorry to burst your bubble, and I love those “feel good comments” you guyz give, i.e., “numbers doubling,” not to mention through deceptive tactics(much like zionist/jewish media and their tactics) and acting like a sunni muslim and stinging like a qadiaani tricks that you Qadiyaanis play with ignorant and “majboor” muslims!!!

I am Muhammad, I am Ahmad, I am the effacer and infidelity shall be erased through me; I am the assembler. People shall be assembled on Doomsday after my time. And I am the last in the sense that no prophet shall succeed me.
(Bukhari, Muslim, Tirmidhi, Muatta’)

You (Hazrat Ali) are related to me as Aaron was related to Moses (pbuh). But no Apostle will come after me.
(Bukhari, Muslim
Musnad recorded a similar hadith ending in ‘Behold there is no prophethood after me.’)

If ever there arose a person from among my people who would hold communion with God, it would be none else but 'Umar bin Khattab.
(Bukhari , Muslim, Tirmidhi)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

The chain of Messengers and Prophets has come to an end. There shall be no Messenger nor Prophet after me.
(Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Anas bin Malik)

Who you guys trying to fool here?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

This is exactly what you are following:
There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me.
(Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)

And these are only from ahadeeth. You guys wouldn’t stand a chance when it comes to Quran, and your “supposing” conjectures of Quranic translation wouldn’t help either!

49

Forget about what Ahmadis think of Bahais, let’s discuss what everyone else thinks of Ahmadis. As far as numbers are concerned, there is no strength is numbers. If we can believe there is only ONE God, and s/he is so powerful and right and blah blah blah, I guess, even if there is only ONE Ahmadi, s/he must sure be enough to tackle a lot of others (at least in theory).

50

S G,

Here you can find the answer to this question (Ahmadis Do Believe in the Holy Prophet (saw) As Khataman Nabiyeen) Please scroll down the heading called “The Traditions” specific the Hadiths that you mentioned.

If the arguments don’t console you, then the only other thing is prayers.

51

Aj, thanks. Just to give you an example of PROFOUND USE OF CONJECTURES and ill-translation which fits Qadiyaani agenda:

"If there were a prophet after me, it would have been Umar."
The word Ba'ad as stated earlier also means with', and there is nothing here which should confine its meaning toafter'.

Now, I ain't no arabic fluent! But when did "after" also mean "with?" Give me a major break will you?

What else is new? Deceptive tactics, deceptive translation of the ahadiths and verses of the quran, acting like a sunni muslim and stinging people with Qadiyaaniyaat. Taking advantage of needy people and using their sad situations to increase the number of followers to this new religion(qadianiyaat).... who are you trying to fool my friend?

Somewhere it says, end does not mean end. After means with, with means after. WHATEVER!!! More like going to an extreme extent to convince the "IGNORANT" but I am not that ignorant to see it as you want me to see it.

This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed my favor upon you and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Maidah 5:3)

I think, that is enough to shut the deceptive claims made by the site you gave me. Quran was revealed on Mohammad(saw). Islam was completed with the arrival of Mohammad(saw) and that verse completely forces my point through the door. Islam is complete, it does not need MORE PROPHETS. If there was left of Islam that Allah(astaqfirruallah) forgot to add in, he would have done so through abu bakr, umar, ali, Usman, hussain, hassan and other great people who lived and died for Islam in its early days when it needed the most!!! Not some British agent who would come after 1400 years and asks for obedience to British Imperial Government. Give me a break guy.

My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example: A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marveled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets.
(Bukhari, Muslim,Tirmidhi, Musnad Ahmad, Tirmizi, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin, Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi)

This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you **Islam as your religion.* - Surah Al-Ma'idah, verse 3

52

S G,

I believe the last Hadiths that you mentioned is also explained somewhere on the same website. Explore a little.

Anyway, I know you are very intelligent & also very patient. So, when Hazrat Isa (as) descend from heaven, then you can show him the same Hadiths & say we don't need no more bricks! The Jews are still patiently waiting for Elijah to appear, so they can have a sign of their first Messiah. I hope you won't compete with them in your patience. :)

53

Serial…congratulations on completion of Islam. Where in the Quran it states that there will many many different sects among Muslims? Shia, Sunni, etc. etc. For all we know, even Khilafat is not mentioned anywhere. so all your Khalifas are not necessary (according to your logic).

54

ahmedjee, I did visit the URL you provided.
Ahmedis do seem to accept Mohammed as the ‘Seal Of Prophets’ but only seem to dispute the meaning of that Word.

Anyway if THAT is all the difference it seems to me kinda silly to bother so much about Ahmadiyas.

After all they DO accept Mohammed and Koran don’t they?

But then you can do a lot of silliness in the name of Religion.
Look at HInduism!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

55

[quote]
Originally posted by Zalim:
** The year before, it was over 40 million and last year it was over 80 million.

Every year the numbers are doubling... every nation is drinking water from this divine fountain... and Inshallah the days are not far when Islam will only be recognized through this sect.**
[/quote]

hmmmmm, and this year would be 160 million, then 320 million.... wait. lets add numbers from past:

only in last 5 years, there must have been 155 million conversions, hmmmm. interesting.

Does this "conversion" include Sunni/Shia converting to Ahmediyyat too?? or are these numbers from non-Muslim conversions?

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right

56

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** Does this "conversion" include Sunni/Shia converting to Ahmediyyat too?? or are these numbers from non-Muslim conversions?**
[/quote]

the answer to this is out lined in Quran as.... And those who strive in Our (cause),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right.[29:70]..

do shia sunni fear God?

just wait, inshallah within your lifetime you will see us flourishing

57

Since when did Quran which was revealed Mohammad(saw) son of Abdullah started refering to a cultish movement born in 19th century under the leader ship of Mirza Ghulam Qadiyaani?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

Act like a Sunni Muslim, and sting like a Qadiyaani. You didn’t surprise me.

flourishing
Please. you call it flourishing, when you qadiyaanis tell lies, disinformation, use deceptive tactics(supposed translation of quran, like the one above and somehow convinceing them that the verse refers to Qadiyaanis and not Mohammad(which it was revealed on to begin with) and his people!) to lure people into your movement?

On issue of fearing God:

Yes, those who fear GOD, don’t attribute lies to him, like Mirza Qadiyaani did!!!

**Who doth more wrong than such as forge a lie against Allah or deny His Signs? But never will prosper those who sin.
(The Holy Quran, Yunus 10:60)
**
(Yunus 10:60)

Truth stands out against the lies and deception and when it comes to deception that British played on Muslims, their lies are shaded by the truth!

**And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:
for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”
(Al-Isra, 17:81)

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Waiting for some cut and paste from your holy sites and holy “prophets books” to make your point a little more weaker and invalidated.

This day, I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favour upon you, and have chosen for you *Islam as your religion. - Surah Al-Ma’idah, verse 3

[This message has been edited by Serial Guppy (edited May 08, 2002).]

58

(know some friends who were offered such a cheap deal for their faith!)

very true as here in UK I know of people that were converted by giving them money to start market stalls, bosnia-visa to UK etc i mean is there any other way of converting desperate people apart from by force?

59

Every year the numbers are doubling... every nation is drinking water from this divine fountain... and Inshallah the days are not far when Islam will only be recognized through this sect.

Allah na karey muslimano par aisi qiyamat aye, 'touba touba' astagfirallah

60

[quote]
Originally posted by Zalim:
** the answer to this is out lined in Quran as.... And those who strive in Our (cause),- We will certainly guide them to our Paths: For verily Allah is with those who do right.[29:70]..

do shia sunni fear God?

just wait, inshallah within your lifetime you will see us flourishing

**
[/quote]

if you are such an expert of Quran, Allah has said in Quran that the true followers of Essa AH and Jews will be okay if they believe in Allah SWT's oneness. I'll try to find the verse next time.

There is no need of "conversion", in Chapter 2 (Baqara) Allah says that "believers" believe in Prophets, Books, Angels and Day of Judgement.

Now can you prove me that Mirza Ghulam is mentioned here (as a Messiah)??? So there is no need to believe in Mirza Ghulam as Messiah to be eligible for Heaven even if he really was a messiah.

May Allah SWT guide us all towards right and help us follow the right