Ahmadis in Pakistan

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Again you missed the point, I have highlighted the part that I wanted you to focus on and here is another similar Ayah.
**[48:29] **Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.

Well I am pretty sure that I can come up with a few things that mirza ghulam made changes to in Islam to prove that you do worship mirza ghulam. Do you think that the People of the Book willingly took their rabbis and monks to be gods besides Allah as it says in Surah Taubah? They followed their rabbis and monks instead of the commands of God so they committed shirk.

So are you calling me a kafir or a munafiq?

I agree with you on the above. But I disagree with your statement that you follow the way of the Prophet.

So, first you agree that you misquoted Surah Nasr. Secondly I can use the same arguments for other religions and cults, look at Christianity and how many people are following that religion. Numbers don’t mean anything. Why does Allah not reduce the numbers of christians? Numbers are irrelevant, the fact is that the true muslims have always been small in number and like I said earlier this fact is supported by the Quran and Ahadith. So you can continue to quote numbers if you want but it won’t have any effect on me.

That Ayah you quoted has been used to justify the punishment for apostacy.
Anyways, if you can tell which one of the early Ulama of Islam said that apostacy is not punishable then I will consider what you are saying. Because Huroob ar Ridda are not necessarily the best evidence. From what I have read is that the early scholars of Islam unanimously agreed that apostasy is punishable by death, if you can show me something from the early scholars of Islam then please do. Those scholars knew Islam better than today’s scholars, and today’s scholars tend to make changes to Islam to please the kuffar.

This is not a good example. Did you know that changes were made to the treaty later on? Like the part where Muslims coming from Makkah to Medina are to be returned was actually removed by the Quraish, and the treaty did not specifically say anything about women so the Prophet refused to return women back to Makkah. I don’t know of anyone who apostated and went to Makkah, but if you know of a name then please show quote someone’s name.
There have been incidents in the Seerah when Umar radiAllahanhu says something like “let be kill this munafiq” and the Prophet gives a reason and says no. The Prophet never said that you cannot kill the munafiq but he had a reason for not issuing the command, like in the case of Abdullah bin Ubay and Hatib bin Abi Balta. The scholars interpreted this to mean that if there is some reason to not punish then one does not carry out the punishment.

Wow, you have again quoted the story to prove your point of view. There’s more that happened afterwards. The story of Abdullah bin Abi Sarah as I read in the Seerah of ibn Kathir says that after Uthman and Abdullah left the Prophet turned to those who were present and asked them why didn’t you kill him while I was silent. Then they said you should have given us a sign and the Prophet said that I am a Prophet and it does not appropriate for me to give you signs like this. Those who were to be executed at the conquest of Makkah fell into two categories, either they were apostates or they disrespected the Prophet in some way. Some were given amnesty and some were executed. Again this proves my point of view and not yours.

This is not from the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam. We know for a fact that fighting for the sake of Allah will continue till the Day of Judgement (this is evident from ahadith), so how can mirza ghulam come along and abolish fighting? Read the Ahadith in Sahih Muslim under the chapter of Government.

There’s another similar narration which says that the Mahdi will be in the middle, which again shows that the Mahdi and the Messiah are two different people.

First of all the ahadith stated that there will be 30 false prophets before the Day of Judgement. So you tell me what this means if the false prophets continue to come and there is no Qiyamah?
Cause those Ahadith do not refer to the Mahdi or Isa alaihisalaam, but it is a sign of the Day of Judgement. Could it be possible that the 30 false prophets that you counted were not the actual 30 referred to in the Ahadith?

Again I agree with some of what you have said. Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam did speak metaphorically and that was understood by the Sahaba and the early scholars of Islam. Again you agree that you misinterpreted Surah Haqqah. Like I said earlier stick to the Quran, Ahadith and the statements of the early scholars of Islam.
Reading your post made me think of another question that if mirza ghulam is the mahdi then who is Ad Dajjal?

it was simple yes or no question, that is the answer i wanted from you
so please answer yes or no

Again, Khatimun Nabiyyeen was unaninomously agreed upon that it means last of the Prophets. It is the qadiyanis who recently brought this forward to make it mean something different. Please show me which of the early three generations of Islam, understood Khatimun Nabiyyeen in the way that qadiyanis interpret it.

Here’s what Tafsir of ibn Kathir says about that Ayaah 4:70. It refers to someone getting the same status as the Prophets, the Siddiqun, etc.

This can obviously be interpreted in different ways. One interpretation can be alive as in living on the Earth which he isn’t because he ascended to the Heavens.

I am not going to simply read from your sites and links. Quote from neutral sources.

Like I said when I have time, I will look up that story as well.

how long can u leekspin?
102

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Assalam,

In reply to Allahkabanda, who claims himslef to be a man a of God, as is suggested by his name, he asked why the introductory passages from the website Ahmadiyyat - The True Islam did not mention the Nabuwwat of Ghulam Ahmad (as).

Again I will relate that the Promised Messiah (as), Ghulam Ahmad (as), did not claim to be a Prophet in his own right, but was a subordinate prophet who achieved that level only by following the Seal of the Prophets (saw). That he was the Messiah, prophecied by the Holy Prophet (saw), who himself called the Messiah of the later days NabiUllah, shows that it was by the athority of Allah and the Holy Prophet (saw) that he was called a nabi and rasool. he was the Messiah and Imam Mahdi (as) first, and because of his mission he was given the title of Nabi and rasool, whose terms are synonymous with the term Masih.

"The followers of all great religions awaited the advent of a

Promised One in the Latter Days, as it is predicted in their

Holy scriptures. The Hindus awaited Krishna, the Jews and

Christians the Messiah, the Buddhists the Buddha and the

Muslims the al-Imam al-Mahdi, as well as the Messiah. Under

Divine guidance, Hadhrat Ahmad made the momentous

disclosure that in fact only one such person representing all

the Promised Ones was to appear and humanity would

ultimately be brought into the fold of one universal religion.

Hadhrat Ahmad(as)*, the founder of the Ahmadiyya Muslim

Community, claimed to be that Promised One who was

awaited throughout the world, in various faiths."

it is clear from this passage from the above quoted site that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the representative of all of those prophets who promised to re-appear, but whose main title would be Masih and Imam Mahdi, yet his Nabuwwat would only be a reflective Nabuwwat, ie, it achievemnet only by the following of the Holy Prophet (saw) and recieving from his Prophethoods everlasting grace, by being the Holy Prophet (saw)'s greatest Khalifah.

If you want to understand the nature of the Nabuwwat of the Promised Messiah then visit http://alislam.org/books/misunderstandingremoved.html

The Holy Prophet (saw) is recorded to have said:

Beware; there will be no prophet or messenger between Jesus, the son of Mary, and me. Remember, he shall be my Caliph after me to my people. Remember, he will vanquish Anti-Christ, break the Cross (with argument), abolish the taking of Jizya (tax collected from defeated people), as there would no longer be any war. Remember, whoever meets him should convey my greetings to him.

Translated from Tabrani al-Ausat was-Saghir
6. Al-Baqarah, 190

103

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Salaam,

By Quoting this Ayah:

[48:29] Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those who are with him are severe against disbelievers, and merciful among themselves.

You sherafghan have called me a disbeliever, a Kuffaar, while I follow the religion of Muhammad Mustaffaa (saw), re-read and try to understand the post that I previously posted about 'Our Beliefs' and judge for yourself whether or not we are Muslims.

Indeed by calling us disbelievers, while we are most asuuredly Muslims by faith and by action, you have, by the athority of the Holy Prophet (saw) become a disbeliever yourself:

The fatwa of Hadhrat Muhammadsa in which he is reported to have stated that:

'If a Muslim calls another a kafir, then if he is a kafir, let it be so otherwise he is himself a kafir.' (Sunan Abu Dawood, vol. 3, p. 484)

by the unbecomming conduct that you have adopted and by observing this UnIslamic behavior, ie by calling another Muslim a Kafir, you yourself fall into the catagory of disbelief, which the Holy prophet (saw) declared himself.

Remember that it is not i that calls you a kafir, but the fatwa of RasoolUllah (saw) places you into that catagory, only because you have yourself declared the Ahmadi's as Kafireen, while we are Muslim by faith and by practice.

It is strange how people have been given the capacity to peer into the depths of human hearts and then be able to weigh the degree of their faith to the extent of deeming and judging them as Kafir, may Allah have mercy on you.

[QUOTE]
Well I am pretty sure that I can come up with a few things that mirza ghulam made changes to in Islam to prove that you do worship mirza ghulam. Do you think that the People of the Book willingly took their rabbis and monks to be gods besides Allah as it says in Surah Taubah? They followed their rabbis and monks instead of the commands of God so they committed shirk.
[/QUOTE]

So do you say that it is shirk by following the Holy Prophet (saw)'s example and teachings, why then is it shirk to follow the Promised Messiah (as) who fulfilled many of the Holy Quran's prophecies and who unveiled the beautiful Face of Islam after it had been forgotten. The teachings were there but Muslims were only there in name not in practise, as was the prophecy of the Holy Prophet (saw) himself.

Yet the Promised Messiah (as) followed in the footsteps of the Holy Prophet (saw), as we do, and we do not hold Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) as a new Prophet but as the greatest follower and Khalifah of the Holy Prophet (saw). He did not invent new things into Islam but followed the true Islam of RasoolUllah and his Sahaba, by which he was made the Messiah, whose mission is to revive the hearts of men and to dawn the Victory of Islam, which is manifestly happening around the world by the conversion of millions of peoples into the fold of true Islam. While those who reject him continuously meet with utter failure and humiliation.

Just look at the world of Islam today. It keeps slipping into havoc and ruin by those who claim to be Muslims yet act completely contradictory to its teachings. The face of Islam is hated around the world because of the false terrorism attributed to it, and because of the condition of the Muslims in general. You know this and so do many others. I am not speaking of the condition of individual Muslims. There are many Muslims who are Muslim by heart and practice and who are successful and prosperous, but i speak in the general term, the wider connotation of the word, ie, the Muslim Ummah as a whole, they have forgotten the Holy Quran even though it is right there in front of them, most of them do not even offer the 5 daily prayers, nor recite even an Ayah of the Holy Quran daily. I know you know this, and Allah would not let the blessed Ummah of RasoolUllah (saw) to perish so miseably without sending the Mahdi and Messiah.

Look at the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and there increasing prosperity and success in the world. Humanity First is a leading humanitarian organization and is becoming the greatest humanitarian services org in the whole world.

This is again the only reason why I quote our fast increase, because it is not only our numbers but our actions and deeds which support the spread of goodness. We started the first satellite Muslim channel (MTA) which runs 24 hours a day and which televise religious programs one after another without any commercials to take your mind off of Deenul Islam.

How are we disobeying the Holy Prophet (saw) who prophecied the coming of the Messiah in the later days in the person of a Persian man like Salman al Farsi (ra)who would bring faith back to the world even if it had ascended to the skies.

We believe in the descent of the Messiah and Mahdi exactly how Isa (as) believed in the descent of Elijah (as). How is this shirk?

Nowhere in Ch 40 verse 36 does it call anyone a Kafir or Munafiq, so where are you getting the idea that I called you a kafir or Munafiq. You are a disbeliever in the Messiah (as) and you dispute concerning the Signs of Allah, wheras you were given no athority to do so, this is why I have quoted the verse.

[QUOTE]
So, first you agree that you misquoted Surah Nasr. Secondly I can use the same arguments for other religions and cults, look at Christianity and how many people are following that religion. Numbers don't mean anything. Why does Allah not reduce the numbers of christians? Numbers are irrelevant, the fact is that the true muslims have always been small in number and like I said earlier this fact is supported by the Quran and Ahadith. So you can continue to quote numbers if you want but it won't have any effect on me.
[/QUOTE]

I agreed with the interpretation of the Sahaba, and never rejected it, but as you can see that the Ultimate Victory of Islam was to take place at the coming of Isa (as) who was to convert the majority of the world or the entire world itself. It is evident that Surah Al Nasr prophecied the events of the later days AS WELL as prophecying the death of RasulUllah (saw). Also, if you have not noticed that the Christians are slowly reducing in number worldwide, but very slowly, and most of those whom the Christian faith loses, come into the fold of Islam, rather than what was happening 100 yeras ago when Muslims were decreasing by entering the fold of Christianity in India. Again 200 million is a minority and a small number compared to the world. You have completely misunderstood what I said, which was that a mere 200 million is nothing relative to the world, but even though people try to use force to obliterate us Allah stands with us and continues to bless us contrary to what the Maulvis and Mullahs wish they could do to us. We are small in size yet we cannot be destroyed by those who persecute us. Also the Christian Missionaries are the fullfilment of the prophecy of Dajjaal. It is the christians as a whole who fulfill this prophecy and the Promised Messiah (as) identified them and broke them by his book "Jesus in India" and since then Christians have been statistically decreasing in number. This is why the Christians are the number one largest religion, and will be until they convert to the true Islam, when they accept the Promised Messiah (as) the prophecy would have been fulfilled,ie, that he would slaughter the Anti-Christ. I would give you a link about this but you refuse to hear what we have to say from our cites.

The fact that the Promised Messiah (as) was supposed to stop religious war is evident in numerous Ahadith, and I 'll give you one of them:

Beware; there will be no prophet or messenger between Jesus, the son of Mary, and me. Remember, he shall be my Caliph after me to my people. Remember, he will vanquish Anti-Christ, break the Cross (with argument), abolish the taking of Jizya (tax collected from defeated people), as he will end war. Remember, whoever meets him should convey my greetings to him.

Translated from Tabrani al-Ausat was-Saghir
6. Al-Baqarah, 190

"Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths, who plotted to turn out the Messenger from his home and who were the first to start hostilities against you? Do you fear them? It is Allah Who is Most Worthy that you should fear Him, if you are believers. Fight them; Allah will punish them at your hands and will humiliate them, and will help you to overcome them, and will relieve the minds of the believers of fear and distress and will remove their feeling of resentment (9.13-14 ). "

[QUOTE]
That Ayah you quoted has been used to justify the punishment for apostacy.

[/QUOTE]

This verse clearly states that those who turn their backs on their oath and go against the islamic state by force are suitable to be punished not apostacy alone, read the bold.

[QUOTE]
From what I have read is that the early scholars of Islam unanimously agreed that apostasy is punishable by death, if you can show me something from the early scholars of Islam then please do. Those scholars knew Islam better than today's scholars, and today's scholars tend to make changes to Islam to please the kuffar.
[/QUOTE]

OPINIONS OF JURISTS

Our thesis that Islam imposes no secular penalty for simple apostacy having been conclusively established on the basis of the Holy Quran and the practice of the Holy Prophet, it is not necessary to have recourse to any juristic opinion on the subject. We are aware that a misunderstanding on this question arose in the midst of a certain section of the jurists on this subject. Yet it is of interest that the Hanafi jurists at the very start were firmly of the view that simple apostacy was not subject to any secular penalty.

The well known compilation Hedayah sets out: The Holy Prophet forbade the killing of women for apostacy, because the principle of punitive regulations is that in such cases the penalty should be left for the hereafter, as a penalty imposed in this life would contravene the purpose of apostacy being a trial the calling to account for which pertains to God alone. This can be departed from only when the object in view is to restrain the person concerned from continuing hostilities. As women, by their very nature, are not capable of fighting, a woman apostate cannot be punished in any case.

Another well known authority on Hanafi jurisprudence sets out: The execution of an apostate is permissible only when it is designed to restrain the apostate from continuing his aggression; it is not permissible merely on account of his reversion to disbelief, for the punishment of disbelief is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Fatehal Kadeer, Val. IV, p.389).

Another authority states: There is no penalty for disbelief, because the penalty for it is severer than execution and can be imposed only by God Almighty (Chalpi's Commentary on Fatehal Kadeer, p.388).

Again, it is said: There is no execution except in the case of fighting, for it is not permissible to execute anyone merely on the ground of disbelief (Inayah, p.390).

The direction attributed to the Holy Prophet: Execute him who changes his faith; has been interpreted as meaning the execution of a combatant disbeliever (Fatehal Kadeer, Vol. II, p.580).

The advocates of the death penalty for apostacy claim that their thesis is supported by a unanimous consensus of the believers and that no one has ever questioned it. Their claim is utterly untrue. We have just shown that leading jurists of the Hanafi school held to the position to which we adhere, that simple apostacy is not punishable with death. It is only a fighting apostate who is subject to that penalty on account of his rebellion or treason and not on account of his apostacy. In addition there have been outstanding scholars in Islam who have upheld the view that we maintain, among them are the great figures of Hafiz Ibn Qayyam, Ibrahim Nakhai and Sufyan Thauri, the last one a great Imam of hadees.

And I gave you sufficient cites to have your answers wuestions It is up to you to
read them.

I already answered your question regarding the term KhatamanNabiyyen, it's not my fault that you don't consider them.

The tafsir which you gave on Ayat 4:70 clearly supports my position as well as the Ahadith that the divines among the Ummati Muslima will be like the Prophets of Bani Israel.

sherafghan what you have to consider is that I am Muslim by faith and by action whether or not you want to acknowledge this or not is not my concern, but it is a little sad that your hatred is such that you cannot even convey the Muslim salutation to me and call be kaafir. You conduct is not like the conduct of the Compassionate Prophet who is Rahmatul Alameen (saw).

Also please use sufficient and authentic Ahadeeth in stead of dismissing my arguments by your words. You must cite the proper Ahadeeth so that I can see where you are getting your sources from, and that you are not blindly following the Maulvis and Mullahs whose sole mission seems to be to put hatred into the hearts of Muslims against other Muslims, you quoted the verse 48:29 yet I pronounce shahada repeatedly every day of my life, but I do not care if you label me non Muslim, I only care what Alah considers of our hearts, and He alone is the Knower of the Unseen and the seen, and he alone knows what is in our hearts.

If you wish to continue this debate, please observe it with proper Islamic conduct as well as appropriate sources and proofs of your views, otherwise, this debate will go nowhere.

104

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

The tone of discussions shows complete intolerance with any one who is following a slight variance of the Sunni beliefs, and you call all them non believers(or worse)

After all, the Christians too have various groups - Cathelics, Methodists, protestants, seven day adventists, Mormons et, etc. They are not baying for each others blood, like you Muslims are doing.

Even in Hinduism, there are the Arya Samajis (who do not believe in Idols), Sanatam Dharm etc.

So please grow up - afterall you are the educated people of Pakistan, if you talk like this - what about the uneducated??

105

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Stop fighting guys - religion should be a unifying factor, some of you have made it a dividing factor

106

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

So you finally figured it out that I've been calling you a kafir. Calling someone who is a kafir that is not a sin neither is it disbelief. So based on what you have been saying you are a kafir.

I say it is shirk that you follow mirza ghulam.

mirza ghulam did not follow the footsteps of the Prophet maybe that's why his followers are labelled as kuffar by the Ummah who do profess the shahada

I totally agree with you. We already know that the ummah will reach this stage so it's not a surprise, this is the Will of Allah.

Again with this.
Abu Hurayra reported that the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "This world is the prison of the believer and the paradise of the unbeliever." [Muslim]
So, if the Muslims are reduced to a few hundred that wouldn't mean anything or if the Muslims are in the billions that wouldn't mean anything. The true Muslims are always small in number.

What's this supposed to mean. Just because you started the first "muslim" channel means that you are correct in your beliefs? This doesn't mean anything.

Again I don't know the details of this particular event. You said it yourself that mirza ghulam abolished fighting, but we know from ahadith that fighting will continue till the Day of Judgement. This abolishment of fighting goes against the Quran [2:216], read it. A Prophet by definition enforces the previous Messengers Shariah, by abolishing fighting mirza ghulam has elevated himself to the level of a Messenger (Rasool) and this obviously contradicts Islam.

The Ayah is in reference to disbelievers but forget about it.

First off, where do you keep getting these statistics from?
Secondly, Dajjal is not the christians. Dajjal is a man who will come in the future. The Prophet salAllahualaihiwasallam in his time used to think that the boy ibn Sayyad was the Dajjal and used to spy on that boy to check see if this was the case, this is supported by many ahadith about ibn Sayyad. There's another narration in Sahih Bukhari that a Sahabi was stranded on an island and met a chained up man who said he was Ad Dajjal and the Prophet approved this story. So Ad Dajjal is a man, and not the christians as you state.

But the wars still continue. So what has he stopped?

You reminded of the incidents that happened at Fath Makkah and of the munafiqeen, and you didn't respond to that.

I already knew of this.

Okay, if you don't care then why did you join this forum just to reply to this thread?

If you want specific references then tell me which ones you want to see and I will present them. I know you spend a lot of time in your replies, and you do your research before you reply. I, on the other hand don't have that much time to do all this. So let me know of which references you want and I will present them.

As I have said, whatever you post here, post it from neutral sources.

You have again avoided more questions that I asked.
At least admit that you were wrong. You used Treaty of Hudaybiyah to prove nothing. I gave you the examples of Abdullah bin Ubayy and Hatib bin Abi Balta. You again misquoted the story of Fatha Makkah, which I had to complete. Like I said, at Fatha Makkah there were two types of people on the execution list the apostates, and those who disrespected the Prophet. And as I said the general rule is that apostasy is punishable. And your quotes also verify this. Also, abolishment of fighting is going against the Quran [2:216], surely mirza ghulam was not given a new shariah and at the same time we know that fighting will continue till the Day of Judgement. The Day of Judgement is not here, fighting still continues and yet mirza ghulam has abolished fighting, something doesn't add up.
Then you quoted the hadith that the Ummah has the Prophet at the beginning and the Masih at the end, and another narration says the Mahdi in the middle which you did not address.
You didn't address what the status of the false prophets is, because the ahadith about the false prophets refer to Qiyamah and not the mahdi or the masih. So Qiyamah has not come and yet we still more false prophets making their appearance, something doesn't add up.
You explained what is Ad Dajjal, and like I said Dajjal as a man.
In my next post I will do all my research and post all the sources inshaAllah so that your lies are exposed once and for all.

107

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

--

108

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Mirza GAQ was simply a liar. His followers today are unfortunate due to their retarded forefathers, who got trapped in stupid translation and taweelat made by him.
But it will not be an excuse for followers according to quran. they are equally responsible for their faith and will go behind Mirza on day of judgement, straight into "u know what".
As fellow countrymen, we should respect their rights till they don't try to decieve people with their false claim of being muslim.
Summary of Qadiani faith based on web of baseless logic. if you read following few lines qadiani faith source code, u will understand how hollow it is.

  1. Hazrat Isa died in Kashmir. how?
  2. Mirza GAQ told.....who is he?
  3. Mehdi..........where are signs?
  4. leave the signs, he is Isa...as he tried to break the cross.

  5. but Isa is dead you told.... duhhhh.

  6. who told GAQ that Isa died?

  7. he got wahi...

  8. how, is he nabi?

  9. yes, zilli, baruzi, bla bla.
    10.what about khatam e nabuat?
    11.khatam means stamp.
    12.who told this?
    13.GAQ.
    14.How is it reliable?

  10. cuz he is nabi.

  11. how ?

  12. cuz Hazrat Isa died. (GOTO 1 and loop till you need)

so guys it is just an egg and chicken question, Mirza himself twists the basic concepts of islam, and claims prophet, mehdi, Isa and more. appearently a plain lie for outsiders.
his followrs think that as he is prophet, mehdi and isa so his claim is true.

it is wastage of time to even debate about this bul****. Hadayat is only for those who seek it.

109

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Mirza GAQ was simply a liar. His followers today are unfortunate due to their retarded forefathers, who got trapped in stupid translation and taweelat made by him.
But it will not be an excuse for followers according to quran. they are equally responsible for their faith and will go behind Mirza on day of judgement, straight into "u know what".
As fellow countrymen, we should respect their rights till they don't try to decieve people with their false claim of being muslim.
Summary of Qadiani faith based on web of baseless logic. if you read following few lines qadiani faith source code, u will understand how hollow it is.

  1. Hazrat Isa died in Kashmir. how?
  2. Mirza GAQ told.....who is he?
  3. Mehdi..........where are signs?
  4. leave the signs, he is Isa...as he tried to break the cross.

  5. but Isa is dead you told.... duhhhh.

  6. who told GAQ that Isa died?

  7. he got wahi...

  8. how, is he nabi?

  9. yes, zilli, baruzi, bla bla.
    10.what about khatam e nabuat?
    11.khatam means stamp.
    12.who told this?
    13.GAQ.
    14.How is it reliable?

  10. cuz he is nabi.

  11. how ?

  12. cuz Hazrat Isa died. (GOTO 1 and loop till you need)

so guys it is just an egg and chicken question, Mirza himself twists the basic concepts of islam, and claims prophet, mehdi, Isa and more. appearently a plain lie for outsiders.
his followrs think that as he is prophet, mehdi and isa so his claim is true.

it is wastage of time to even debate about this bul****. Hadayat is only for those who seek it.

110

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

test

111

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

hmm

112

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

whas up

113

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

At first I wasn't going to reply because from the way wrote your response you seem to be ignorant.
Anyways, do you even understand why Muslims are divided and why christians for example are united? The fact is that muslims believe that we have the Truth, while christians do not truly believe this. If they did then their sects would have the same problems too, because they would want the Truth to prevail.
So what if I am an educated pakistani? Does that put me at a different level than others?
In front of Allah the only thing that makes one stand out is Islam, nothing else. I would have preferred that you say we are Muslims rather than saying pakistani.

114

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

Bismillah,

[QUOTE]
“So, if the Muslims are reduced to a few hundred that wouldn't mean anything or if the Muslims are in the billions that wouldn't mean anything. The true Muslims are always small in number.”
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that from time immemorial it has been those who were small in number that were in the right. From the time of Adam (as) to Noah (as) to Abraham (as) to Moses (as) to Jesus (as) up till the time of Muhammad Mustafaa (saw), yet you are forgetting the Ultimate victory that Allah the Exalted promised Hadhrat RasoolUllah (saw):

“He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the religion of truth, that He may make it prevail over every other religion, even though the idolaters may resent it.” (9:33)
“He it is Who has sent His Messenger with guidance and the true Religion, That He may cause it to prevail over all other religions. And sufficient is Allah as a Witness.” (48:29)
“Allah has decreed: 'Most surely, I will prevail, I and My Messengers.' Verily, Allah is Powerful, Mighty.” (58:22)
“He it is Who has sent His Messenger with the guidance and the Religion of truth, that He may cause it to prevail over all religions, however much those who associate partners with Allah may dislike it.” (61:10)
“When the help of Allah comes and the Victory, and thou seest men entering the Religion of Allah in troops.” (110:2-3)

Alas, you have completely missed these ayah’s whose promise was not only fulfilled during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (saw) himself, but was to stand for all times to come. The Holy Prophet (saw) was granted the Ultimate victory within his lifetime, which Allah promised him, and was to be repeated in the latter days, that is at the coming of the Promised Messiah (as) who was to herald the final victory of Islam over other faiths. This view is held by most commentators of the Holy Quran. For example Shaikh Isma’il Haqqi held this view in his work Ruh al-Bayaan, also in the Commentary of the Quran by Imam Abu Ja’far Muhammad ibn Jarir Tabari. They like most other commentators say that these verses were fulfilled in the lifetime of Muhammad (saw), but were also to take place again in the later days, at the hands of the Messiah (as), yet you continue to believe with no evidence that the Ultimate victory of Islam over other faiths will not occur, regardless of the promise that Allah has declared to the believers. It is quoted in many Ahadith that when the Messiah comes he will herald Islam’s ultimate victory. The Holy Prophet said: Allah will perish all religions except Islam. (Bukhari, Book 37). Also this Quranic Aya of 17:82 alos supports this: “Truth has come and falsehood has vanished.” This was fulfilled at the Fatha Makkah when the Holy Prophet (saw) cleared the idols and repeated this prophetic verse, and was also to take place in the later days at the hands of Masih-Al-maoud. This Quranic verse shows that Allah had intended Islam for worldwide acceptance and its first fulfillment was during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet (saw), but even after his death the works of the Holy Prophet (saw) and his believers would issue and dawn the Ultimate victory prophecied by Muhammad (saw) himself to take place in the later days.

[QUOTE]
“What's this supposed to mean. Just because you started the first "muslim" channel means that you are correct in your beliefs? This doesn't mean anything.”
[/QUOTE]

My purpose was to show you, as I said earlier, that we excel in good deeds and humanitarian works, but we are still very small in number, as you said it is always those who are small in number who are right, but as I showed you above that the promise of Allah will Insha-Allah be fulfilled and Islam will achieve the final Victory, which was promised to be fulfilled in the latter days at the hands of Imam Mahdi and Isa (as). The religion of Muhammad (saw) will find world wide acceptance and the majority of the world will become true muslims, this is obviously what will happen, and Allah has power to do all that He wills.

[QUOTE]
“Again I don't know the details of this particular event. You said it yourself that mirza ghulam abolished fighting, but we know from ahadith that fighting will continue till the Day of Judgement. This abolishment of fighting goes against the Quran [2:216], read it. A Prophet by definition enforces the previous Messengers Shariah, by abolishing fighting mirza ghulam has elevated himself to the level of a Messenger (Rasool) and this obviously contradicts Islam.”
[/QUOTE]

Religious war is no longer permissible after the advent of the Messiah and Mahdi (as), just as in the time of Hadhrat Jesus (as) religious as well as secular fighting was condemned by Jesus, son of Mary (as). Why? While the Law of the Torah allowed it, indeed while the Law of the Torah encouraged it, yet we find that Jesus (as) was not given permission by Almighty Allah to fight those who fought him, because it was the time of peace and security for those who believed in Jesus (as) as the Messiah and Messenger of Allah. Those who did not accept him, like Barabas, continued to fight blindly with the Roman Empire, with no avail whatsoever. Just because Jesus (as) abolished the act of religious war, as was commanded by Allah for his people of his time, did not mean that Jesus had the capability to force others to stop fighting, it was only preached to everybody, but was enforced only by those who accepted him. The same is the case of the Muhammadi Messiah (as) who is to stop religious war, but that does not mean that he will force this belief upon others and make the whole world stop, but only those who follow him will enjoy this atmosphere of peace, security, comfort and tranquility, just as was the case with the former Jewish Messiah (as) who abolished and forbade religious war, even though the Torah allowed it. The Muhammadi Messiah, as the Jewish Messiah, will win the hearts of people through insight and religious beauty, and will not take up the sword against the disbelievers, but will take up a metaphorical sword against them, which is prayer and argumentation. The arrival of the Messiah (as) dawned the age of peace, but only for those who accept him. They will not need to fight religious wars, and will not be allowed to because this is the time of peace and understanding, as was the case with the Jewish Messiah in the Ummah of Musa (as). It is clear and evident from Ahadith that the messiah would abolish religious war, and I know you are familiar with them.

Also, remember that the Jihad by way of fighting is termed Jihadi asghar, meaning the lesser Jihad, and the Jihad by way of spiritual striving is termed Jihadi Akbar which means the greater Jihad (Kashaf)

The smaller or lesser Jihad, which is religious war, has been forbidden by Allah to the Messiah, and as for verses such as 2:216 it is evident that they are ever incumbent upon us as Muslims, but because the situation has changed, the interpretation of those verses has changed to what the Holy Prophet (saw) designated as the greater fight. We shall continue to fight but not by the weapons of man but by the weapons of spirituality, this was meant to be at the time and coming of the Messiah, just as it was not allowed for Jesus (as) to fight by the sword, but his fight was the greater Jihad, the Jihad that the Holy Prophet (saw) endured while he was persecuted for many years in Mecca before the Hijrah. It was only when the Holy Prophet was waged war against was he granted permission to fight.

The Promised Messiah, peace be on him, set forth the true Islamic teaching concerning Jihad. He states:
Without a doubt the causes of Jihad do not exist in this country in these days. Therefore, the Muslims of this country are today forbidden to fight in the name of religion and to slaughter those who reject the Islamic law. God Almighty has clearly forbidden Jihad by the sword in a time of peace and security. (Tohfah Golarvia, p. 82)
It is obvious that no divine can hold Jihad lawful at a time when its conditions do not exist.
It must be remembered that the Promised Messiah, peace be on him, did not forbid Jihad absolutely. He argued his Community to carry Jihad all the time. He states:
The Jihad of this age is to strive in upholding the word of Islam, to refute the objections of the opponents, to propagate the excellences of the Islamic faith, and to proclaim the truth of the Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, throughout the world. This is Jihad till God Almighty brings about other conditions in the world. (Letter addressed to Mir Nasir Nawab Sahib)

Even Maulana Maudoodi Sahib declared:
When the Muslims were defeated and the British Government was established and the Muslims were content to live in this country with freedom to practise their personal law, this country ceased to be a country at war. (Book on Interest, p. 1)

It is clear that when freedom of religion is established in the land then there is no permission to fight against the government, this is why the Messiah will destroy the Dajjaal without the usage of materialistic arms, but will defeat him with the equipment and usage of spiritual arms, which will be bestowed upon him from Allah. The Dajjaal being the Christian Missionaries, who are the number one power in the world today, grant freedom of religion to all, which is why fighting is prohibited.

The root of the Arabic word Jihad is jahd which connoted endurance of rigorous conditions. Thus Jihad means to strive to the utmost for the achievement of a purpose and to leave nothing undone in pursuance of it. The well-known lexicon Tajul Urus says:
The true meaning of Jihad is not to hold back anything and to put forth every effort and to achieve the purpose in view by forcing one-self. Jihad is of three types, namely, to oppose the enemy with full effort, to employ all one's faculties in opposition of Satan and to strive to the fullest that satanic designs should be altogether frustrated in the world, and to strive to the utmost in the struggle with oneself. The verse of the Holy Quran: 'Strive in the cause of Allah a perfect striving'; comprises all these three types of Jihad.

Thus Jihad is of three types. One, the Jihad against oneself which in Islamic idiom is called the greatest Jihad (Jihad Akbar). Two, the Jihad that is waged against Satan and satanic teachings and designs, and is called the great Jihad (Jihad Kabeer). Three, the Jihad that it waged against the enemy of freedom of conscience; this is called the lesser Jihad (Jihad Asghar). The Holy Prophet, peace and blessings of Allah be upon him, has described the striving against self as Jihad Akbar. It is mentioned in the hadees that returning from an expedition (Tabuk), the Holy Prophet said:
We are returning from the Jihad Asghar (fighting) to Jihad Akbar (struggle against self). (Kashaf)
He also said:
The mujahid who is exalted above other mujahids is the one who strives against his own self.

The life of the Holy Prophet was divided into two parts, his life in Mecca and his life in Medina. During the Meccan period, he and his Companions were subjected to every kind of persecution, but they were not permitted to undertake Jihad by the sword. After the migration to Medina, God Almighty granted permission to the Muslims to oppose the aggression of their enemies by the sword. Now it is clear that every moment of the Holy Prophet's life was devoted to Jihad. It would be wrong to say that he did not carry out Jihad in the Meccan period and carried it out only during the Medina period. The truth is that every moment of his life and of the lives of his Companions was devoted to some type of Jihad. Jihad was carried on in the Meccan period, though there was no fighting and no killing of the enemy. In the Medina period, Jihad was continued in the same way but here Jihad by fighting was also added.

It is clear that Jihad is still in practice, but the Jihad which will be focused upon is the Jihadi Akbar, and the observance of Jihadi Asghar is not permissible when the freedom of conscience is established. There will always be persecution, but should be bore with the same high resolve of the Holy Prophet (saw) and his Sahaba (rahm), who fought those who made war against them. They were not allowed freedom of conscience and religion which is why they were granted permission to fight, you quote 2:216, but obviously have not understood what Allah has ordained as permissible in the previous verses on the same subject:
“And fight them until there is no persecution, and religion is professed only for Allah. But if they desist, then remember that no hostility is allowed except against the wrongdoers.” (2:194)

The Holy Prophet (saw) could not have entered into a number of treaties of peace with the disbelievers (9:4-7) if the Divine Commandment had been to continue fighting until all disbelievers had embraced Islam. Fighting is to continue only so long as interference with religious freedom lasts, this is also taught in (8:40), (9:4-6), (22:40,41). The last Quranic verses which I cited should be taken into deep consideration for it was the first revealed Ayah in which permission to fight was given from Allah, who would support His Messenger and the believers. It is clear in 22:41 that Allah allowed this defense for the purpose of establishing religious freedom, and if Allah had not allowed it many religious temples of worship would have been mercilessly destroyed. But today we find religious freedom and right to conscience, which makes Jihadi Akbar forbidden for us, especially the followers of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi (as) who have accepted him and are his followers.

Here are the words of the Promised Messiah (as) himself:
“Indeed, the hallmark of the arrival of the Promised Messiah was ya da ‘ul harba (He would abolish religious war) . The proof of the authenticity of the Promised Messiah is that he would not wage religious wars. The reason is because today the opponents too have stopped waging religious wars. The confrontation has, of course, assumed another shape and complexion. Now they use the pen as a weapon to attack Islam…The truth of the matter is that the main task of the Messiah and Mahdi was to abolish religious warfare and to establish the superiority of Islam with pen, prayer and persuasion. What a pity, people do not understand this because they are interested more in what is mundane than in faith. Steeped as they are in worldly worries and immoralities…” (Lecture Ludhiana)

Also, the Holy Prophet (saw) said that there shall be born no man with two hands who is capable of destroying Ad-Dajaal, and also said that you cannot over power him (Bukhari) and in Sahih Muslim the Holy Prophet (saw) said that Allah will say to the Messiah that I have created some people whom no one will be able to fight and withstand.

It is clear from such Ahadith that the Messiah’s battle would not be a physical battle with the sword, but will be a spiritual battle with prayers and knowledge.

[QUOTE]
“Dajjal is not the christians. Dajjal is a man who will come in the future. The Prophet salAllahualaihiwasallam in his time used to think that the boy ibn Sayyad was the Dajjal and used to spy on that boy to check see if this was the case, this is supported by many ahadith about ibn Sayyad. There's another narration in Sahih Bukhari that a Sahabi was stranded on an island and met a chained up man who said he was Ad Dajjal and the Prophet approved this story. So Ad Dajjal is a man, and not the christians as you state.”
[/QUOTE]

I agree with you that the Holy Prophet (saw) identified Ibn Sayyed as the Anti-Christ, but you forget that the Holy Prophet (saw) identified the Isa (as) who would repell him, and identified the Isa (as) as Hadhrat Ali (rah), meaning that there is a Dajjal in every age, as well as a Isa (as) in every age to metaphorically slaughter the Dajjal. That is why the Holy Prophet (saw) said that he is most like Isa (as) than any other Prophet, and that every Prophet resembles one another that that of brothers with the same father but different mothers (Bukhari). Dajjals were to appear in every age, but the greatest Dajjaal was to arise and appear before the coming of the Messiah (as). When the Dajjaal would be at the height of its power the Messiah would destroy him. The term Dajjaal can also apply to a group of people and not only one person, but if you insist that it is one person then look up the historical personage of Dr. Alexander Dowie of Zion City, whom the Promised Messiah (as) entered into a prayer dual with and prophesied his miserable death. Dr. Dowie cursed the Holy Prophet (saw) and the Muhammadi Messiah, and by entering into a dual with him, Dowie was destroyed utterly, and his large following of over tens of thousands were dispersed upon his unveiling as a false Elijah. The Promised Messiah also identified his defeat and metaphorical slaughtering as the slaughtering of the Dajjaal manifested in the form of one person. But the ultimate Dajjal lies in the group of Christian Missionaries. This view is supported by Surah Al-Fatihah itself in the last Ayat: “Not the path of those who incurred Thy displeasure, and not of those who have gone Daal or astray.” Those who have gone astray are the Christians, and they have risen to the number one world power in contemporary times and have reached such a status that no one with two hands can defeat them by fighting, just as the Holy Prophet (saw) prophesied. It is this Christian power who backs up and aids the Jews as well, and have sworn allegiance to each other in defiance against the Muslims. If this is not the Dajaal and neither was Alexander Dowie than I wonder why the Holy Prophet (saw) did not prophesy and warn the Muslims against the great evil of the Western worlds, whose influence has enslaved the lives of many Muslims, and whose satanic influences have put other countries to fear and hate them.

[QUOTE]
“But the wars still continue. So what has he stopped?”
[/QUOTE]

As I said earlier the case is the same as what happened in fulfillment of the prophecies of the Jewish Messiah, who was supposed to end war and dawn the age of peace, which he did, but only for those who accepted and believed in him. Why was there still wars during and even after the time of Jesus (as) when he was supposed to stop it and bring peace? Indeed it is the same case with the Muhammadi Messiah who is Imamukum min kum, ie, the Imam from among your own selves, from among the Muslims. You continue to persist in your close minded conduct, just as the jews did before you.

The Hadith that you refer to about the Mahdi being in the middle only signifies his time of appearance before the Messiah (as), and because the Imam Mahdi and Isa (as) are one and the same person in the words “Lal mahdiyyu illa ‘isaab na maryama” “there is no Mahdi except Isa” (Ibn Majah and Bab Shiddatuz Zaman) and 'How would it be with you when the son of Mary will descend among you and will be a leader raised from among you? (Bukhari, Kitabul-Anbiya, chap. nuzul Isa bin Maryam.) And again: “It is possible that he who lives among you might meet Jesus the son of Mary (as) WHO IS THE IMAM MAHDI and a just judge. He will break the cross and kill the swine. The Arabic transliteration is: ‘…isabna maryama imaaman mahdiyya wa hakaman etc…” Again this Authentic Ahadeeth is recorded in the book Musnad Ahmad page 156/2.

Thus the Ahadith which you still have not quoted with proper refernce, means that Mahdi will come before Isa (as), meaning that he will be Imam Mahdi first and then will be appointed as the Messiah, as the Ahadith above show that Mahdi and Isa are one. This is exactly how it was fulfilled and what happened to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), who in 1882 was commissioned as Imam Mahdi and then seven years later was given the revelation by Allah that he was the Messiah and that Jesus (as) was dead and will not himself return, but whose essence was bestowed upon Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as), who was the Messiah and Imam Mahdi (as).

Also, you did not understand the Ahadith with respect to the 30 Dajjaals. The Hour is meant by the Judgement day as well as the coming of Imam Mahdi and Isa (as), every scholar has written that the end times or the day of Qayyimah is the coming of Isa (as), a spiritual resurrection was to take place at the coming of Isa (as) as well as many worldwide events would have occurred and did already occur at the coming of Isa (as), and some of which await fulfillment. You keep bringing this up but you don’t even know the wisdom behind it, your understanding is too shallow is not as open minded as the true and saintly scholars of Islam, and neither is mine but at least I understand and accept what they say. I know that every knowledgeable Muslim knows that the Hour signifies not only the Qayyimah but the advent of Jesus (as) as well. The coming of Isa (as) heralded a spiritual Ressurection, and he is the Prophet who is to appear under the name of Muhammad and Ahmad before the actual Judgement Day. Though false prophets will continue to appear, but they are not as impactful as the ones the Holy Prophet (saw) prophecied about. 30 liars were to appear before the Hour and that Hour is the coming of Jesus, for the Hour cannot be fulfilled until Jesus arrives, as the Holy Prophet (saw) said: "The Hour will not be established until the son of Mary (i.e. Jesus) descends amongst you”, who is to slaughter the Dajaal once and for all, and which is in progress today through the efforts of the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community. What does it matter that false Prophets continue to appear when Jesus (as) has come, the Holy prophet (saw) warned his Ummah not to be deceived, but when the true Messiah and Mahdi comes his truth would be supported by Allah and he would have a manifest victory. If false prophets are to appear after him, they do not matter because Isa (as) has come, and they the false Prophets who shall come after Isa (as) will not have a lasting effect on the people and slowly they will see the truth, which is why warning about them was not necessary, because Jesus (as) would have already appeared, Alhamdulillah. Allah never supports the liars and false prophets but gives his aid only to those who are believers and are true.

Also, on the occasion of the fall of Mecca, only four people were executed all others were forgiven, and only two of the had committed apostasy, but as I will show, that it was not die to their apostasy alone that they earned the penalty of death but of what injustice they had committed:
Another instance that is cited in support of the thesis that apostacy is punishable with death is the case of Ibn Khatal who was one of the four people who were executed on the occasion of the fall of Mecca. It is true that he was an apostate, but it is not a fact that he was executed on account of his apostacy. His case is set out in Mawahibal Ludunniyyah where it is stated: The Holy Prophet directed the execution of Ibn Khatal. He had been a Muslim and the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, had sent him to collect the zakat. He was accompanied by an Ansari and a freed man of his who served him and who was a Muslim. They arrived at a place where they were to spend the night and he directed the freed man to slaughter a goat and to prepare dinner. Having given this direction, he went to sleep and when he woke up, he found that the freed man had done nothing for the preparation of dinner. He was intensely annoyed and set upon the freed man and despatched him. He then repudiated Islam and reverted to paganism, and went to Mecca and settled down there.
This recital makes it quite clear tha Ibn Khatal was not executed as a punishment for his apostacy, but on account of his murder of the Muslim freed man. Our thesis is not that no apostate has ever been punished. We concede that there are several instances of the execution of apostates, but in each case the execution was for some offence committed by the apostate and not on account of his apostacy. We repeat that there has not been a single case in which the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, directed the execution of an apostate whose only default was that he had repudiated Islam and who had not been guilty of any offence attracting the penalty of death.
The third case which is cited in support of the advocates of the penalty of death for apostacy is that of Maqees bin Sababah who was also executed on the occasion of the fall of Mecca. Concerning him Zarqani has recorded in his commentary on Mawahibal Ludunniyyah: Maqees bin Sababah had become a Muslim and thereafter he killed an Ansari who had killed his brother Hisham during the campaign of Zeeqard, mistakenly thinking that he was one of the enemy. After that incident Maqees had accepted blood money in respect of his brother from the Ansari, and yet, he killed the Ansari. He then repudiated Islam and went to Mecca and joined the Quraish. This again is a case where an apostate was executed on account of a treacherous murder that he had committed.

I will research upon Abdullah Bin Ubayy and Hatib Bin abi balta, I am not familiar with their complete and entire story.

115

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

NuzuluMasih, this is the abridged version of Biography of Ghulam Ahmed Mirza

This shows he was a Prophet.

[quote]

*If anyone deserves to be a prophet in this age, this lad indeed should be one”. (Hayate Tayyeba, page 14) *

[/quote]

*There is always been spewing of Ahmediyas to Ahle Hadith, Batalvi was one of the Great Scholars of truth*

[quote]

Next year in 1869 someone took him to Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Batalvi for a public discussion. Mr. Batalvi belonged to the Ahle Hadith sect that was being opposed at the time by other Muslim sects. The person who brought Hudhoor (AS) wanted him to have a debate and refute their certain doctrines. When Hadhrat Ahmad (AS) questioned Mr. Batalvi his belief on a certain theological point, he discovered that it was in complete accord with the Islamic teachings. So he refused to debate with him.

[/quote]

Fasting for what, our Prophet salaAllaahwaliuwasalam never recommended to fast continuously for 9 months, it was allowed only on Mondays and Thursdays but not continuously. Once a Sahabi asked shall i Fast continuously, Prophet responded no. The only Prophet to fast the most was David peace be upon him, he used to do it alternate days.

[quote]
This year he fasted for eight or nine months on receiving directive from God Almighty. He reduced his daily food intake to such an extent that at one point it amounted to only two or three morsels a day. Besides receiving many heavenly blessings in those days, he met with former prophets and Muslim saints in his dreams and visions.
[/quote]

Chilla is a clear cut innovation in Islam, in the sense the 40 days chilla is an innovation, you know who started this concept.

[quote]
Under Divine inspiration Hudhoor (AS) traveled to Hoshiarpur on January 22nd, 1886 to perform Chilla. He stayed in a house for forty days, all his time was spent in intense meditation, devotion & prayer.

[/quote]

What are the 5 basic tenets of faith and 6 points of Iman, first is the Iman and Aqeedah.

[quote]

He will be accompanied by grace, which shall arrive with him. He will be characterized with grandeur, greatness and wealth.
In this pamphlet he made it known that anyone who wishes to enter into covenant of allegiance should swear on the following from the core of his heart.
That till the last day of his life, he shall abstain from shirk (associating any partners with Allah).
That he shall keep away from falsehood, cruelty, adultery, dishonesty, disorder, rebellion and every kind of evil.
That he shall offer prayers (Salat) five times daily.
That he shall not inflict injury on any of Allah’s creatures.
That he would bear every hardship for the sake of Allah.
That he shall not follow vulgar customs and guard against evil inclinations.
That he shall discard pride and haughtiness, live in humility & meekness
That he shall hold his faith, dignity, and the welfare of Islam dearer than his own life, wealth and children.
That he shall have sympathy for all of God’s creatures, and devote his talents to their welfare.

[/quote]

Ok this particular says adhere to his rules, only till he is alive not after he is dead. Now is this what you talk about.
Now for sure, if someone has to pass such comments, what can you call the one who follows this Heretic, a Kafir

[quote]

That he shall establish brotherhood with me (i.e.Ahmad), obeying me in all good things, and firmly adhere to these rules until the last breadth of his life.
In 1890 God Almighty revealed to him that Hadhrat Isa ibn Maryam (AS) had passed away like all previous prophets. The belief that he is alive in the heavens, is false and against the teachings of the Holy Quran. Also he proclaimed that the Messiah whose advent was foretold by Holy Prophet Muhammad, peace & blessings of Allah be on him, has appeared in his person. God has sent this Promised Messiah to reform the world and to spread the pristine teachings of Islam.

[/quote]

Now is our religion up for betting, when it was disallowed. Dont you know it was. What is this challenge for. Dont you know when ther verse of Surah Ar- Rum was revealed, Abu Bakr, challenged the Mushriks later this in the narration of ibn kathir its mentioned it was abolished. Did Mirza Ghulam follow Prophet salaAllaahwaliuwasalam

[quote]

Hudhoor (AS) announced that if Mr. Athim would declare on oath that he had not inclined towards the truth, he would pay him a sum of Rs. 1000/- provided he survived for one year after taking the oath. Later the sum was increased to Rs. 4000/-. Athim did not take the oath, had he taken a false oath, he would have been punished within one year.
In 1893 Hudhoor (AS) invited Muslim divines to hold an essay competition with him in Arabic
Hadhrat Ahmad (AS) was deeply offended. He was ardently jealous of his holy master.
In January 1898 Hudhoor, peace be on him, published a book Kitab al-Bariyya. In it he published an announcement for a cash prize of 20,000 Rupees to be awarded to any person who would bring forth a single tradition of the Prophet of Islam (SAS) indicating that Hadhrat Isa (AS) has bodily ascended to the heaven and would return in the latter days.

[/quote]

Now you expect to believe, one more lie of Ghulam Ahmad Mirzai.

[quote]

A tradition of the Holy Prophet of Islam (SAS) states that the Promised Messiah will descend by the white minaret to the East of Damascus. In order to have this prophecy fulfilled literally as well as spiritually, Hadhrat Ahmad (AS) proposed the construction of a minaret in the courtyard of the Aqsa Mosque in Qadian. Members sent in donations enthusiastically for this project. Hudhoor (AS) laid the foundation stone in 1903, unfortunately the construction work stopped due to insufficient funds. Eventually the work resumed in 1914 during the Caliphate of Hadhrat Musleh Mauood (RA) and completed in December 1916.

[/quote]

All the above, points I have picked up from the biography of Ghulam Ahmad, that you have posted. You should Have read it atleast.

116

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

This is the post of the Faith I have couple of points here,

Was Prophet a warner, a messenger or through whom we found living God. What does that mean Nauzbillaah that Allaah is not eternal, what do u mean by found is it a thing that it will be lost.

[QUOTE]

Thousands and thousands of prayers and invocations of peace, mercies, and blessings, for the Holy Prophet Muhammad Mustafa - on whom peace - *through whom we found the Living God. *
(Nasim-i-Dawat, pg. 1)

[/QUOTE]

117

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

This is the article on Kafir,

Sherafghan I want your comments for this, this was all from the Horses Mouth, thats the Qadianis followers.

[quote]

The question of Kufr or infidelity is once and for all solved by the Holy Prophet (saw) himself in the above Hadith, as well as this simply straightforward verdict:
Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) is reported to have said:

"One who dies without accepting the Imam (Appointed by Allah) of the time, his death is a death in disbelief". (Masnad Ahmad ibn Hanble Vol. 4 p96.)

Thus based on the athority of Hadhrat Muhammad (saw) if one has been commissioned by God and is rejected, those who reject him are tainted with disbelief.

[/quote]

118

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

It is you who has missed the point. The hadith of the 73 sects states that among them is only one sect which is the saved sect. Just imagine over a billion muslims divided into 73 sects and out of them only one group is the saved sect. This clearly shows that the True Mu'mineen will be small in number. This doesn't mean that the other sects are on kufr, but the saved sect, the sect of the True Muslims will always be small in number. When Allah puts the Muslims through Fitnah that is when the True Muslims stand out and that is when the Munafiqeen show their true colours. This is why initially the followers of the Mahdi will be roughly 300 or so and it is afterwards when the Mahdi's status will become apparent that is when his followers will increase in number. It should be obvious to you now that I believe mirza ghulam to be a false prophet, so don't turn this around and say that all of this points to mirza ghulam. Because all of this already occurred before too. For example the followers of the false prophet Aswad Al Ansi gained momentum after his death.
[/quote]

Chrisitian missionaries also excel in good deeds and humanitarian work but that doesn't mean anything. And that's obvious that Islam will eventually prevail, and inshaAllah the lies and deception of the qadiyanis will be exposed soon.

You are trying to make your case by using the distorted texts of the People of the Book, that's just pathetic. Isa alaihisalaam was given Injeel, meaning he had his own Shariah. Musa alaihisalaam was given Taurat, meaning he had his own Shariah. They were both Messengers (Rasool). Haroon alaihisalaam was a Prophet (Nabee) whose duty was to reinforce the Shariah given to Musa. If you claim that mirza ghulam has the permission from Allah to abolish things in the Quran then you have elevated him to the status of Messenger, because instead of reinforcing the Shariah of Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam he is making up his own Shariah. Therefore he cannot be from Allah, and therefore you are worshipping and following mirza ghulam and not Allah, ie. shirk.
I am sure you must have heard of the following hadith, it is mutawaatir.

Sahih Bukhari *Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24: *
Narrated Ibn 'Umar: Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

From the ahadith we know that after the Mahdi and the Masih, everyone will become Muslim and that is why there will be no more fighting. You have again twisted everything for your own benefit. We know that everyone will become Muslim because in another narration we know that the Masih will abolish Jizya and this means there will only be Muslims. According to the Shariah of Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam Jizya is to be paid by the non muslims, so if there is no jizya then there is no non muslims.

Again, you are trying to justify your point of view from the distorted scriptures of the People of the Book. This is just sad that you can't prove your point from the Quran and Ahadith.

You are trying to pretend that you know something about this, yet you know nothing. This hadith is da'eef, and you cannot take rulings from it. There are other more stronger ahadith which prove the opposite of this.

You cannot say that, you have no basis for saying this.

Again you are using a da'eef hadith to interpret Quran, no scholar of Islam does this. The word used in 2:216 is Qitaal and not Jihad, so even if I accept the da'eef hadith, you still have no argument.

Like I've said earlier, quote from neutral sources. The more you quote from your qadiyani sources, the more apparent your deviations become.

Wrong. It is not freedom of religion, it is when the Shariah is established.

Already know this, but this is not the Shariah meaning of the word. Just like Salah used to mean supplication before Islam, but now it has a different Shariah meaning.

Again the basis of your whole argument is a hadith that is da'eef. No scholar in Islam does this.

I don't disagree with that. Here's something for you to think about, the Muslims used to drink alcohol in Mecca and also for some time in Medina so does this mean that we can drink alocohol today? No, the reason is obvious, at that time the Shariah was not complete, it was still being revealed, but today the Shariah is complete. There's enough evidence to say that all the muslims in Mecca knew that the command to fight will come soon.

Again the basis of your argument is the interpretation rooting from a da'eef hadith. And you have gone back too far, to get to the "context". The wording used in 2:216 is the exact same wording used for making Fasting fard. Kutiba Alaikum (Prescribed upon you ...).

The purpose of Islam is not religious freedom, but to establish the Shariah. The Shariah includes religious freedom. This is what scholars agree on. Please show me which scholar of Islam says that the purpose of Islam is to bring religious freedom to the people?

Don't care what he says, quote from neutral sources.

We know that the Muslims will pray to Allah to get rid of Gog and Magog, and we also know that the Muslims will pray to Allah to get rid of their (Gog and Magog) dead bodies as well. Gog and Magog will appear after Ad Dajjal is slain. It seems that you are confusing the two.

You are avoiding the argument altogether. Ibn Sayyad was suspected as being AdDajjal which means the Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam considered Ad Dajjal to be a man. So the ultimate Dajjal has to be a man, unlike the way you claim that it is the christian missionaries. There's also the hadith in Sahih Muslim and other books about Tamim Ad Dari meeting Ad Dajjal on an island, and the Prophet approved of this story. Again meaning that Ad Dajjal (The Dajjal) is a man, and not a group.

Isa alaihisallam did not come with a message for all of mankind. Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam came with a message for All of mankind. So again your argument does not make sense.

Fair enough. You have a different interpretation of this hadith.

Like I said the hadith about the 30 false prophets is in reference to Qiyamah. Again, Qiyamah is not here and we continue to have more false prophets. The hadith does not refer to the Mahdi or the Masih in anyway and there is no connection except that they are both ahadith about the signs of Qiyamah. So, something doesn't make sense. Did Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam (A'uozobillah) lie to us?

So, I guess we are at a stalemate on this. There isn't enough information to support one's view. Plus this doesn't really relate to the original discussion so I am not going to respond to this.

Read about them. The stories can be found in the Saheehayn, and in the Seerah.

119

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

[QUOTE]
It is you who has missed the point. The hadith of the 73 sects states that among them is only one sect which is the saved sect. Just imagine over a billion muslims divided into 73 sects and out of them only one group is the saved sect. This clearly shows that the True Mu'mineen will be small in number. This doesn't mean that the other sects are on kufr, but the saved sect, the sect of the True Muslims will always be small in number. When Allah puts the Muslims through Fitnah that is when the True Muslims stand out and that is when the Munafiqeen show their true colours. **This is why initially the followers of the Mahdi will be roughly 300 or so and it is afterwards when the Mahdi's status will become apparent that is when his followers will increase in number. **It should be obvious to you now that I believe mirza ghulam to be a false prophet, so don't turn this around and say that all of this points to mirza ghulam. Because all of this already occurred before too. For example the followers of the false prophet Aswad Al Ansi gained momentum after his death.
[/quote]

[/QUOTE]

Abdullah bin Amar (RA) relates that the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said "Surely things will happen to my people as happened earlier to Israelites, they will resemble each other like one shoe in a pair resembles the other to the extent that if anyone among the Israelites has openly committed adultery to his mother there will be some who will do this in my Ummah as well, verily the Israelites were divided into 72 sections but my people will be divided into 73 sections, all of them will be in the fire except one." The companions asked, 'Who are they O Messenger of Allah,' Holy Prophet (peace be upon him) said, "They are those who will be like me and my companions."(Trimizi, Kitabul Eeman). Other than Tirmidhi, Ibn-e-Ma'ja, Vol 1, p163 gives three independent narrations of the same hadith.

In this hadith there are quite a few things to be noted. Firstly, it mentions the resemblance of Muslim Ummah with the Israelites (i.e. Jews). In another hadith this resemblance is mentioned in the words that as among the Jews a prophet was raised in every century among Muslims a reformer will be raised and as among the Jews at the end of the chain of prophets a Messiah was raised, a Messiah will be raised among Muslims as well. Among Jews there were 12 tribes each divided into six sects making a total of 72 sects at the time when the Messiah (i.e. Jesus AS) was sent to Israelites. After the appearance of the Messiah among Jewish people the list of sects increased considerably. So while talking about 73 divisions among Muslims and taking into account the resemblances of Muslim Ummah to the Jewish people mentioned in both of the above tradition, it appears that these two ahadith relate to the time of the Promised Messiah (AS), whose Jamaat is the Ahmaiyya Muslim Movement in Islam.

Now I would like to present a few quotations from the writings and utterance of a few Muslim saints reflecting on the practices and the name of the Jama'at of the followers of Mahdi and Messiah. Hadhrat Ali (RA) said:

"Mahdi Maoud will be colored with the glory of Muhammadiyya and will have the wealth of Ahmadiyya."("Yanabaiul Muwadat" Part III page 58, by Allama Fazil Saheikh Suleman Ibn Sheikh Ibrahim Alma'aroof NaKhawajah Kalan (Died 1877) Matba'a AL Irfan Saida Bairoot.)

Hadhrat Muhammad bin Faris Misri wrote:

"Our scholar will be prophet and from among those who call towards the truth he will have the station of messengership and our A'arif will be in the period of Ahmadi, will be from among oolulazm (those who have strong determination) and will receive greatness."("Al-Maddad Al Faidh" published by Sharah Deewan Sayedee Umar bin Al-Faridh, Maktabaa Hadhrat Al-Sheikh Ahmad Ali Aimlenji Al-kutabi From Al-Azhar Egypt, 1319 hijra (1901) p38."

Hadhrat Mujaddid Alif Thani wrote:

"Around one thousand and some years after the sad demise of the Holy Prophet (peace be upon him), the Haqeeqate (truth) Muhammadiyya will ascend from its station and will unite with the place of Haqeeqate (Truth) Ka'aba. At that time Haqeeqate Muhammadi (Muhammadi Truth) will be called Haqeeqate Ahmadi (Ahmadi Truth)."("Mubda'a o Ma'ad" by Imam Rabbani Mujaddad Alif Thani Sheikh Ahmad Farooqi Naqshbandi Sarhindi Qadas Sirah with Urdu Translation by Hadhrat Maulana Sayed Zawar Hussain Shah Naqshbandi Published by Idarahe Mujaddadiyya, Nazim Abad No. 3 Karachi No. 18 p205.)

Hadhrat Imam Ali Al-Qari wrote:

"so among seventy three sects all of them will be in fire and the firqah najiyya (sect deserving paradise) will be the one among ahle sunna (Sunnis) which will have the glory of Muhammadiyya and will be following the holy Tareeqatul (practices of) Ahmadiyya."("Al Muraqqatal Mafateeh Sharah Al-Mashkawatal Masabeeh" Lil Muhadith Al-Shaheer Ali bin Sultan Muhammad Al-Qari (Died 1014 hijra) Part I, Maktaba Imdadiyya Multan p248.)

Hadhrat Abdur Raheem Grohri wrote:

"Hadhrat Mahdi Maoud has the Muhammadi appearance and will descend like a leader, he will have a mole near one of his eyes. He will re-establish din-e Ahmadi (the Ahmadi practices), our sahib will be bright like the sun and beloved of all. He will be learned, wise, king of wisdom and an eternal saint. O mir Muhammad Sahah! Mahdi will be decorated with the turban of prophethood." ("A'ainae Sikandri" Vol. II by Hafiz Ghulam Abro first edition (1974) Maulvi Muhammad A'zeem and Sons. Merchants of Books Shahi Bazaar Shikarpoor Sindh, p18.)

Thus by the words of Hadhrat Ali (ra) as well as Islamich scholars of the past ages, Ahmadiyyat, which is the 73rd Jamaat in Islam, is fully supported as being that one Jammaat which was prophesied by the Holy Prophet (saw) as being the only Jamaat that would be in the right and even went as far as saying: "they are the ones who will be like me and my Companions" these are the words that the Holy Prophet (saw) used to describe the grandeur of Ahmadiyyat in the sight of Allah Ta'Alaa.

Now about the 300 or so Companions of the Mahdi (as). Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote down a total of exactly 313 Companions in literal fulfillment of the Prophecy of the Holy Prophet (saw) who said that the Mahdi would have 300 or so Companions with him just as I had 313 during the battle of Badr and just as Talut had 313 during his battle with Jalut, and he will write down there names in a book. After that the Companions of the Promised Messiah swelled and his Community progeressively increases, though small compared to the world. It is Jammate Ahmadiyya which is the fastest growing Jammaat upon the face of the earth, which is in fulfillment of the words of RasoolUllah and the prophetic Quranic verses regarding the ultimate Victory of Islam. So your words actually support the incidents of the life of the true Mahdi (as).

About Aswad Al Ansi:

The success of the Holy Prophet's mission gave ideas to many ambitious persons in different parts of Arabia to lay similar claims to prophethood. Asad Ansi was the first to rise in Yemen. He was followed by Musaylmah in central Arabia and Tulayha in northern Arabia. Even a woman, by the name of Sajah, claimed to be a prophetess. She married Musaylmah and joined forces with him. Abu Bakr dispatched forces to fight these pretenders and seekers of political power. Of the four, Aswad Ansi and Musaylmah were defeated and killed while Tulayha and Sajah ultimately embraced Islam.

Aswad Al Ansi was defeated and killed by the armies of Hadhrat Abu Bakr Siddique (rah), and his followers did not prevail against the Muslims, but were ultimately either converted or destroyed by Muslim armies, thus your attempt to relate the success of Ghulam Ahmad (as) with Aswad Ansi is completely erroneous. Ansi was killed and his followers are no more, yet the Promised Messiah (as), Ghulam Ahmad (as) died peacefully in a bed in Lahore in 1908, and his followers are on the rise, the like of whose success can only be found in early Islam, which spread throughout the whole of the then known world.

[QUOTE]
Isa alaihisalaam was given Injeel, meaning he had his own Shariah. Musa alaihisalaam was given Taurat, meaning he had his own Shariah.
[/QUOTE]

This view about Isa (as) is completely wrong and misunderstood according to the Holy Quran and Ahadith. Isa (as) did not at all bring his own Shariah, he was a follower of the Torah and never considered himself 'free from the Law'.

The Injeel was not a new Shariah at all, it was not even a Shriah in its own, but was the revelation given to Jesus (as) from Allah, whose content contained no new Law-Bearing Commandments. The word Injeel is a greek word underived from any Arabic word according to Sa'id al-Khauri al-Shartuti the famous lexiconist who wrote Aqrab al-Mawarid, and according to him Injeel means good news. Injeel was not the revelation of a new Law, but was a reinforcement to its truth. The fact is that the athority of the Torah was not cancelled by any prophet except the Holy Prophet (saw) who was given the Holy Quran, and every prophet that came after Moses (as) and before Muhammad (saw) and who was Jewish or an Isrealite followed the Torah, as well as Jesus (as).

Do you even know what Shariah means? Shariah is a Heavenly Law revealed anew by Almighty Allah, in which are Divine Commandments which cancel the previous Divine Law, or at least bring its like. Isa (as) was given Injeel not Al-Furqan, like Hadhrat Musa (as) was given. Hadhrat Musa (As) was the last Law Bearing Prophet before the Holy Prophet Muhammad (saw), not Jesus (as). Jesus was not a Law Bearing Prophet, and indeed denied being a new Law-Bearer, and even went so far as to say that:

"Think not that I am come to destroy the Law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy but to fulfill. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one jitter shall in no wise pass from the Law..." (Matt. 5:17-18)

The Holy Quran itself bears witness that Jesus was a follower of the Torah as all Israelite Prophets did who came after Moses (as), the Law-Giver:

"And verily We gave Moses the Book and caused Messengers to follow in his footsteps after him; and to Jesus, son of Mary, We gave manifest Signs, and strengthened him with the Spirit of Holiness. Will you, then, every time a Messenger comes to you with what you yourselves desire not, behave arrogantly and treat some as liars and slay others?" (2:88)

It is clear from this verse that Jesus (as) was a follower of Moses (as) and the Torah, as histroy bears witness. He never brought a new Law, but followed the Shariah of Musaa (as).

"These messengers have We exalted some of them above others; among them there are those to whom Allah spoke; and some of them He exalted in degrees of rank. And We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs and strengthened him with the spirit of holiness. And if Allah had so willed, those that came after them would not have fought with one another after clear Signs had come to them; but they did disagree. Of them were some who believed, and of them were some who disbelieved. And if Allah had so willed, they would not have fought with one another; but Allah does what He desires." (2:254)

After mentioning the two catagories of Prophets, ie, the Law Bearering Prophets and the other Prophets, Allah makes special mention of Jesus (as), yet never says that He was among those to whom Allah gave a new shariah, or discrimination, or Law. In other Quranic verses Allah makes mention of Injeel, which is not revelation of a Shariah, but is good news, fulfillment of, and reinforcement for the Torah, just as the Israelite Prophets before him reinforced and fulfilled the Torah.

"Surely, We have sent revelation to thee, as We sent revelation to Noah and the Prophets after him; and We sent revelation to Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and his children and to Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave David the Zaboor." (4:164)

Here Allah mentions Hadhrat David as being the recipient of the Zaboor, which means any writing or book. It is most likely refferring to the Pslams of David, yet it was not a new Shariah. Will you then say that David (as) was given a New Shariah, while he was Jewish by religion in that he was a follower of the Torah? The Zaboor is similar to the Injeel in that they were not Shariah, but were fullfilments as Jesus (as) and the Holy Quran says.

"And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, fulfilling that which was revealed before him in the Torah; and We gave him the Gospel which contained guidance and light, fulfilling that which was revealed before him in the Torah; and a guidance and an admonition for the God-fearing." (5:47)

The Injeel was a subordinate revelation to the Torah, and was not free from the Law of Moses (as), and thus was not a Shariah in itself, but was a reminder of the true teachings of the Law of Moses (as) as the true interpretatin of the Law had been forgotten, Allah revealed the Injeel to Jesus (as) as a reminder to the Jews. The Holy Quran never mentions anywhere that Jesus was not a follower of the Torah or of the footsteps of the Israelite Prophets, and never says that he was given a new Law. Just as David was given Zaboor, Isa was given Injeel, both of which did not contain a New Divine Law.

Your misinterpretation of saying that Jesus (as) was given a new Shariah might have been from this verse:

"Jesus said, 'I am a servant of Allah. He has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;" (19:31)

It is crystal clear that from 'the Book' in this verse, Jesus (as) means the Torah, and that Allah had bestowed upon him the true meanings of the Torah unlike the Pharisees and Rabbi's who misunderstood it. It does not mean that Allah gave Jesus (as) a new Shariah or a new Law, but Jesus was a foolower of the Torah and followed in the footsteps of the Israelite Prophets and was historically a Jew, and never claimed either in the Quran or the Bible to have been a harbinger of a new Law.

"Then We caused Our Messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow them, and We gave him the Gospel. And We put compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. And monasticism they invented - We did not prescribe it for them - for the seeking of Allah's pleasure; but they observed it not as it should be observed. Yet We gave those of them, who believed, their due reward, but many of them are rebellious." (57:28).

Here again it only mentions the Injeel and does not say that it was a new Law or Shariah.

"And call to mind when Jesus, son of Mary, said, 'O children of Israel, surely, I am Allah's Messenger unto you, fulfilling that which is before me of the prophecies of the Torah, and giving glad tidings of a Messenger who will come after me, his name being Ahmad. And when he came to them with clear proofs, they said, this is manifest sorcery.'" (61:7)

Here again Jesus (as) mentions himself as fulfillment of the Torah and not as a Prophet who brings a new Law for the Israelites. he was only the Messiah and was not a Law Bearing prophet like Moses or Abraham or Noah or Muhammad (saw).

The misunderstanding of Jesus(as) may also have arrived if you you hold the belief that Nabi and Rasool are not the same, which is incorrect. The terms are used to describe the various missions of Allah's chosen elect, but whoever is a Nabi is also a Rasool. It is not that the catagory of Rasool's contain only Law bearing prophets and Nabi are only regular prophets, but a rasool is a nbi and a nabi is a rasool, but some of them are made KalleemUllah's, ie, Law Bearers, the titles of Rasool and Nabi are the different titles but have the same missions. That is what 2:254 says in the Quran. That some of them Allah spoke to, ie, revealed a new Law or Shariah, like Moses (as) and Muhammad (saw), and others Allah exalted by degrees of rank, ie, the non Law Bearing Prophets who get revelation which does not contain a new Law, like Jesus, David, Solomon, Job, etc.

You should reflect upon this. Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (as) did not claim to be a Law-Bearing Prophet, but was a subordinate prophet to Muhammad (saw). he did not abolish was on his own, or by his own will, but according to the conditions of the Holy Quran fighting was and is prohibited when freedom of religion is established. There is no comulsion in Religion (2:257) you cannot force people to become Muslim by force. Fighting was prescribed for them because as Allah said Himslef that is he did not repel men by means of others, there would be mass destruction of religious houses of worship, wherein Allah is much remembered. The object of Islam is not to convert everyone by means of force and the sword, but its truth shall prevail by winning the hearts of men.

Remember that swords can win territories but not hearts, and force can bend heads but not minds. Force will not convert the hearts of men, and this is taught by the Quran and the Sunnah and Hadith. The Quran does not allow the usage of arms to propogate the Message of Islam, it only allows it in defense, not offense.

You are the one who is in the wrong. The purpose of Islam is not to impose religion by way of force, but allows religious freedomfor all. They fought for the Shariah of Islam to be practised freely, not to force others to convert by way of the sword, that is against Islam.

I will provide the necessary sources soon.

120

Re: Ahmadis in Pakistan

You keep regurgitating what I say but in an extremely lengthy manner and at the same time you make references to qadiyanis. Please stop using this tactic of yours.

Again, you are trying to be deceptive. Followers of Nation of Islam call themselves Muslims but that doesn't make them Muslims. People can say that they belong to the Saved Sect or the Victorious Party but that doesn't mean that they are from that group unless they fulfill the requirements. Just because you call yourself ahmadiyya does not mean that you really are the ahmadiyya as referred to the quotes that you have mentioned.

I already told you not to turn this around, because I wouldn't believe you either way.

You don't even know what you are talking about. Aswad al Ansi was killed by Feyrouz during the lifetime of Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam. It was his followers who the armies of Abu Bakr radiAllahuanhu fought with.

Thank you for making it clear that you are a kafir.

Yet again you are being deceptive. I know the difference between Nabee and Rasool, the difference is that a Nabee is someone inspired by Allah while a Rasool is someone given a new law by Allah. I also know what Shariah means.
There's a huge flaw in what you have said. You said Isa alaihisalaam did not fight, yet Musa alaihisalaam was the first Rasool to be given the order to fight (This order was given when Bani Israel were told to take over Jerusalem and they refused). So even if I were to believe you (which I don't), your arguments contradict themselves.
You have gone on and on about your argument, that Isa was a Nabee and not a Rasul, can very easily be countered by the following Ayaat from the Quran.
[3:49-50] **And will make him 'Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): "I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah's Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah's Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurat (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you**, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me.

What is clear from the above Ayaah is that Isa alaihisalaam made some things halaal which were haraam for the Bani Israel. This clearly means he brought a new Shariah.
Either you know that you are lying, or you don't have enough knowledge. If you know that you are lying then my advice to you is Fear Allah. If you don't have enough knowledge then stop making these false statements and go read a book, start with the Quran.

There is no need to reflect on what you say because you continue to lie and be deceptive. The mutawatir hadith which says that the Prophet said he had been ordered to fight until everyone becomes Muslim or accepts Jizya. This does not mean freedom of religion, it means spreading the Shariah. So again, your mirza ghulam has created a new law (prohibition of fighting) meaning he has altered the teachings of Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam which means that he did not come from Allah which means that believing in mirza ghulam is kufr.

In Islam there is Jihad ut Talab (offensive) and Jihad ud Daf (defensive). When Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam sent the army of Zaid bin Haritha radiAllahuanhu to fight the Romans at Mu'tah, was that offensive or defensive? When Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam himself led the armies to fight at Tabuk, was that offensive or defensive? When Rabee bin Amir met with Rustum and delivered the letter from Sa'ad bin Abi Waqqas was that offensive or defensive? When Tariq bin Ziyad crossed over to Spain, was that offensive or defensive?
When the Muslim generals gave the non muslims three choices 1. Become Muslim, 2. Pay Jizyah, 3. Fight, was this offensive or defensive?
Why don't you use the brain that Allah has given you and think a little before you write all this.

You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. Please go read a book.