Ahle Tashi doing Matam

Peace aqm805

Even I cried when my grandfather died when I was young, but I didn't cry the same time every year I just cried on the occasion. I believe the natural crying takes place there and then, but the rest of it is unnatural after the event.

Islam teaches us wisdom and trust in Allah (SWT), by loosing ourselves in self-harm this is a sign of no trust in Allah (SWT). You say "where does is say we can't mourn for martyrs?" but this is like saying "why can't we complain when we are given toys?" Martyrs are not for people to cry over. Their state is a happy one. Also, those pious people loved the idea of seeing their Lord. Muhammad (SAW) told Fatimah (RA) that he was soon to die, she cried, but after he told her that she would be the first to see him afterwards, knowing that she was going to die she stopped crying and started to be happy.

Despair is not a condition of the Mo'min who has yaqeen ...

Self-harm is an extreme form of mourning and if mourning should be done then this should be limited to sober crying.

The fruits of the matam are to be seen with your own eyes, there is severe disregard to sobriety and uprightness, and the real purpose of doing it seems to be a bit of a custom coupled with a bit of a show coupled with a bit of an adrenalin rush.

Mourning rituals and self harm as found in the Quran

We read in Surah Nisa 004.148 YUSUFALI: Allah loveth not that evil should be noised abroad in public speech, except where injustice hath been done; for Allah is He who heareth and knoweth all things.
We read in Tafseer Ibn Katheer Volume 2 page 20 Surah Nisa, under the commentary of this
"Ali bin Abi Talhah said that Ibn Abbas commented on the Ayah and said,'Allah does not like that the evil should be uttered in public, He does not like that any one should invoke Him against anyone else, unless one is wronged. In this case, Allah allows one to invoke Him against whoever wronged him. Hence Allah's statement Allah loveth not that evil should be noised abroad in public speech, except where injustice hath been done'"

A similar narration can also be located in Saheeh al Bukharee Volume 2 page 820 on the authority of Muhammad ibn Kab.
This verse makes it clear that the public's relaying of injustice is permissible. Relaying the suffering of a victim is permissible. The tradition from Bukhari proves that mourning is permissible when one is citing the pains inflicted on the aggrieved party hence any tradition that contradicts this must be ignored.

MOURNING AND HITTING ONESELF IS THE SUNNAH OF THE LAST PROPHET PBUH

As evidence we shall cite the following works:
Saheeh al Bukharee Volume 2 page 5

  1. Sunan al Nasai Volume 3 page 305
  2. Adhaan al Mufreed page 426
  3. Saheeh al Muslim Volume 1 page 291
  4. Musnad Abu Awana Volume 2 page 292

All these books state:
Rasulullah (s) was in a distress where he was hitting his chest."

Ibn Hajr Asqalani in the commentary of this tradition in Fathul Bari Volume 3 page 90 writes:
"This Hadeeth demonstrates that it is permissible to bang your hand at a moment of distress".

CHEST BEATING IS THE SUNNAH OF SAHABAH (ra)

Musnad Abu Awana Volume 2 page 141

  1. Sunan Nasai Volume 3 page 12
  2. Sunan Abu Daud Volume 1 page 244

"Mu'awiya bin Hakim Sami narrates that I read Salat behind the Prophet. A person sneezed and I recited Alhamdolillah on him. People began to stare at me, I asked 'Why are you staring at me?' the Sahaba began to hit their heads."

PROOF OF HEAD BEATING AS FROM QURAN E HAKEEM

In Surah adh-Dhaariyaat we read that Hadrath Sara (as) struck her face when she was told that she would conceive a baby.

"Then came forward his wife in grief, she smote her face and said (what! I) An old barren woman?"

Quran 51:29
"Faskath" does not just mean rub or touch, it means slap and this is evidenced from Saheeh Muslim Book 030, Number 5851, Bab Fadail Musa:

Abu Hurraira reported that the Angel of Death was sent to Moses (peace be upon him) to inform of his Lord's summons. When he came, he (Moses) boxed him [Sakka] and his eye was knocked out. He (the Angel of Death) came back to the Lord and said: You sent me to a servant who did not want to die. Allah restored his eye to its proper place (and revived his eyesight), and then said: Go back to him and tell him that if he wants life he must place his hand on the back of an ox, and he would be granted as many years of life as the number of hair covered by his hand. He (Moses) said: My Lord what would happen then He said: Then you must court death. He said: Let it be now. And he supplicated Allah to bring him close to the sacred land. Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: If I were there, I would have shown you his grave beside the road at the red mound.

This has also been reported in Saheeh al Bukharee Book 23 Volume 2, Book 23, Number 423, Book of Funerals.
We read in the Sunni work Maqamath ai Hareery,

"He beat his cheeks and tore his collar"

The slapping of Prophet Ibraheem (as)'s wife Sara is proven from the Qur'an. The Qur'an tells us to adhere to the ways of the people of Ibraheem (as), so if the Shi'a beat themselves whilst mourning for Imam Husayn (as) such acts are lawful.

BEATING ONE'S SELF AT THE TIME OF DISTRESS IS THE SUNNAH OF HAZRAT ADAM a.s.

"When life was breathed into the spirit of Adam he hit his hand on his head and cried. He made this tradition of beating one's head with one's hand and crying in times of trouble for his descendants.


*BEATING ONE SELF IS THE SUNNAH OF HAZRAT UMAR r.a*

Kanz al Ummal, Vol.8, Page 117, Kitab al Maut tells..
When Hadhrath Omar heard of Nu'man ibn Muqrin's death he beat his head and screamed, "O what a pity that Nu'man(one of his friends) died".

*MOURNING BY THE SUNNAH OF THE WIVES OF THE LAST PROPHET PBUH*
Ibn Katheer al Nasibi in al Bidayah wa al Nihayah Volume 5 page 420 published by Nafees Academy Karachi records the event as follows:

"Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women".

Ibn Katheer al Nasibi in al Bidayah wa al Nihayah Volume 5 page 420 published by Nafees Academy Karachi records the event as follows..

"Rasulullah (s) died while he was in my lap. Then I laid his head on a pillow and got up beating my face along with other women".

THE MOST PROMINENT MOUNING BY HAZRAT OWAIS QARNI (ra)

The most explicit proof of self-inflicted injury comes from Owais al-Qarni the great Muslim Sahabi, praised by both Shi'a and Sunni erudite. He had an immense love for the Holy Prophet (s). When the news reached him in Yemen that two teeth of the Holy Prophet (s) were broken in the battle of Ohad, he extracted all his teeth. When the Holy Prophet (s) got the news in Medina that Owais had struck down all his teeth, he (s) exclaimed, "Indeed Owais is our devoted friend". This event can be found written in 'Seerate Halbia' vol II, page 295.

A MUSLIM BEDOIN MOURNING BEFORE THE PROPHET PBUH

Malik's Muwatta
Book 18, Number 18.9.29:
Yahya related to me from Malik from Ata ibn Abdullah al-Khurasani that Said ibn al-Musayyab said, "A Bedouin came to the Messenger of Allah, (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) beating his breast and tearing out his hair and saying, 'I am destroyed.' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, 'Why is that?', and he said, 'I had intercourse with my wife while fasting in Ramadan.' The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked him, 'Are you able to free a slave?', and the man said, 'No.' Then he asked him, 'Are you able to give away a camel?', and the man replied, 'No.' He said, 'Sit down,' and someone brought a large basket of dates to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and he said to the man, 'Take this and give it away as Sadaqa.' The man said, 'There is no one more needy than me,' and (the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace), said, 'Eat them, and fast one day for the day when you had intercourse.' "
Worthy of note is the fact that Darr Qathani in his Sharh of Muwatta Volume 2 (this tradition) adds that that 'he was placing mud in his hair'
.
The incident should be considered in the light of the following facts:

  1. The Bedouin being a Muslim was Sahabi (companion) of the Holy Prophet (s).
  2. He was beating his chest and tearing his hair in presence of Holy Prophet (s) who neither objected to it nor reprimanded him for the same.
  3. The action of the Bedouin was a result of spiritual pain he suffered as his fast was invalidated.
  4. Sunni traditionists have authentically recorded this incident.

BABA FAREED GANJ SHAKKAR'S SELF HARM AZADARI

Baba Fareed Ganj Shakar of Pak Patan is a major Sunni Sufi Saint. He commands thousands of adherents from the Indian Subcontinent. We read in the Sunni text From Uswa - e - Sufia Uzzaam, Page 8:
He used to lament and cry for Imam Husayn (as) on the day of Ashura so much so that he would fall unconscious. It is narrated from him that there was a saintly man in Baghdad and when the tragedy of Karbala was described to him, he cried so piteously and profusely and smashed his head so hard on the ground out of grief that he died! The same night, people saw him in their dream and enquired of his condition to which he replied: I gave up my life for the love of Ahl - e - Bait (as) hence Allah has pardoned me and I now live with Imam Husayn (as)

Is not the status of an Azadaar equivalent to that of a Martyr? This shows that self - flagellate with knives and swords, doing Matam and giving up one's life for the love of these Infallibles is a cause of redemption and pardon from Allah (swt).

Peace aqm805

The verse that has been copy-pasted by you is grossly out of context.

Firstly ... the ayat says 'evil' and in the same verse states except where injustice has been done. The correct understanding of this verse is that 'evil' should not be spread about because evil spreads evil, but in the case where an injustice has been done to someone then to protect people from further evil that information needs to be made public.

Now this copy paste of yours has made a massive blunder ... because by assuming that the injustice can be applied to the event of karbala you are admitting that the matam is an evil ... a necessary one but still EVIL.

Read the red coloured text it is from your copy paste ... the originator has made a jump, an intuitive one, which does not follow from the context. He has concluded that to relay an injustice is persmissible, but the verse talks about relaying an evil as a result of an injustice these are not the same things.

Then by saying to relay an injustice is one thing but then to relay it as though the injustice was on the relayer rather than the victim this is another matter entirely.

Then you need to consider the wisdom of the purpose why the evil is allowed in this instance it is for protection. So why is it that centuries after the event has gone by is it still necessary to relay this event don't you think we know about it? Or do you think the 'evil' is still lurking around and makes it necessary to spread it once a year?

The person has not done his homework ... this is only on the first section of your post ... I will leave the rest for now ...

Re: Ahle Tashi doing Matam

PSYAH

I dont think there is any jump in logic in quoting the Ayah. The evil is still lurking after centuries. This is the exact reason that you see Shia's being martyred in cities and villages, in deserts and mountains on account of their faith and remembrance. Pick up the news paper and you will see reports of truck loads of weapons and ammunition and 'mujahideens' crossing over from Afghanistan to kill Shia's in Hangu, Pakistan.

Karbala is a reminder to all such forces that evil is still there and is hijacking Islam for its nefarious purposes just like Yazid.

they describe the incidents with as much exaggeration as humanly possible. They contains things such as, describing the thoughts of the people, how is that possible? If the words were said, I have no problem with it, however, making up what went through some one's mind at that particular incident and conveying it as an "incident" or "fact" is wrong and misleading.

:bism::salam:

Well, when studying Sunni Islamiat back in homeland, we were not even told anything more than a single liner about Karbala and Aal e Muhammad PBUH.

The matter of labelling something related to this event(and many other events), as whether factual or not cant be done that easily, without gathering as much information about it, from the people who have held the details of it, safe with them.

There are many Hadith that back up the thoughts and word of the Ahlu-bait. If u want to be precise then many hadith that are relied on can be questioned and the interpretation of events can also be questioned .Then once we finish questioning that we can question something else. what annoys me is that everyone is so judgmental without having any knowledge of Kerbala and the sacrifice made. Go back do ur reading then question if the explanation is authenticor not. If there are hadith which tell us about how are Rasoo lfelt PBUH there is also ihadith which backup his bloodline.

Peace righteous

You've taken only one bit of my response to that ayat. It is not about doing matam ... that ayat is about telling about some evil person instead of hiding his sins such as a rapist for example, if no one knows about him he could do it again, but by telling the people one is warning them. The evil of his action being known by society is less than the evil that would result in him doing his crime again.

Now, this stretched application jumps from this understanding by playing with the word evil and injustice and the commentor pretends the ayat is talking about spreading the news of the injustice but really it is not about spreading news of the injustice rather it is to spread the evil, (which in this case is to tell the society about the sinful detail removing their innocence, but making them alert) due to an unjustice. Unless the commentor is saying the matam is the evil thing it won't comply with his analogy.

It is context specific to the topic that is being talked about ...

Now in the case of Imam Hussain (RA) and the matam it is done about a specific event. The Imam cannot be martyred again once he is martyred. And you say the matam is now done for the purpose of recent attocities so then why call Imam Hussain(RA)'s name when you are mourning about local events. What you say does not gell together. The evil event of the taking of the Imam's life is locked away in history, that event won't keep occurring therefore this verse is not applicable to the subject.

do you have any examples?

psyah: There is a common saying that every day is ashura, every land is kerbala. What it means by that is kerbala taught us many things, and one of them is to stand up against injustice and oppression you face and to stand up for the defence of Islam.

The situation after kerbala got as such, that Yazid had declared Ashura a public holday. The victory over the 'rebels' was a cause for celebrations, and majority of the 'muslims' followed suit. It was only through the consistent mourning and remembrance of what happened in kerbala by the survivers and thier small band of followers, did the true account of the events get through. That is how azadari started and it is as every bit relevant now as it was around 1400 years ago.

It is about keeping spirit of shahadat alive. Its about keeping to remind ourselves that truth will be in constant battle with the falsehood. And what better example then the sacrifice of Imam Hussain (as). As a Muslim we should be proud that such sacrifice came from nobody but the grandson and the family of our prophet!

Allama Iqbal said:
Insaan ko bedar tou ho lenay dou
Har Qaum pukaray gi humaray hein Hussain!

Jews keep holocaut alive for their own political gains and interests. We Muslims however should remember Karbala not for wordly gains but goals beyond that. We live in the world today where truth seems to be disappearing. Recalling Imam Hussains’ sacrifice serves as a reminder to all the humanity to keep battling against the opressors no matter how dire the situation or how heavy the consequences may be.

No doubt today the front fighters against the Pharoahs of today are lovers of Imam Hussain (as). Be it revoloution in Iran, victories of the Labanese resistence, Iraqi uprisings, or Hamas battle for their rights.