Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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That is good. It seems like now that lot of religious parties are turning on Sufi and his cave buddies.

‘Sufi is rebel of Sharia, Constitution’](The News International: Latest News Breaking, World, Entertainment, Royal News)

RAWALPINDI: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad, chief of the defunct Tehrik Nifaz Shariat-e-Muhammadi (TNSM), as a rebel of Sharia and the Constitution of Pakistan.

They called on the government to restore its writ across the country without yielding to the terrorists and extremist. The demand was made at a convention entitled ‘Stability of Pakistan’ held in Rawalpindi on Tuesday.

In a declaration issued at the end of convention, the participants condemned the killing of Muslims, demolition of Shrines and abuse of Ulema.

The declaration also called for resignations of all Ahle Sunnat Ulema from the government and demanded their unity at one platform.

They further demanded that the army, the Supreme Court and the Parliament should fulfill its obligations for the protection of the country’s constitution.

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

This is finally a good sign. We can only hope that Qazi Hussein, Munwar Hassan and Imran Khan also stop playing politics with the Taliban issue and begin to help garner public support for rooting them out.

Oh an by the way, in Pakistan “Go xyz Go” means “Leave,” and not “keep it up”.

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

You guys are funny. First you say Imran Khan, or Qazi have no popular support in Pakistan, and then you cry all day as to why Imran Khan and Qazi wont condemn the boogeymen, as if the whole insurgency will stop. The insurgency will only stop when the locals in those areas are educated, and the Govt, in particular the corrupt dictatorships stop dinking around in those areas.

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

Good to see Ahle-Sunnat Jammats are coming against these psyedo-goat-lovers-monkeys.

But in the long run, it will throw more fuel on sectarian divide :(

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First you say Imran Khan, or Qazi have no popular support in Pakistan, and then you cry all day as to why Imran Khan and Qazi wont condemn the boogeymen, as if the whole insurgency will stop.

Imran and Company certainly don't have the same level of popular support as other major political parties do. I am not "saying" that, it is proven by national elections time after time. However, Imran, Qazi and company are very vocal opponents of taking any actions against Taliban which creates ambiguity and confusion among the masses as to really what's going on.

The insurgency will only stop when the locals in those areas are educated, and the Govt, in particular the corrupt dictatorships stop dinking around in those areas.

Theoratically you are right about the long term solution. But you also seem to be conveniently missing the fact that Taliban had been blowing up schools in the Swat area. You seem to be bitter about the past which is keeping you from recognizing the menace we are fighting and the criticality of the situation. If we pour 1 Billion dollars into opening thousand new schools next week, do you think Taliban will decide to lay down the arms?

I used to have respect for your opinions, but your hate for Musharraf and disagreement with his policies seems to have affected you permanently.

Name thread
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Where did I mention Musharraf? The fact that you brought him up just strengthens the fact that he was responsible for this whole mess. He was thinking about his own 'kursi' and the time was right to nip the evil in the bud. Now its game.

And what about your hate for Imran and Qazi? I remember you cheering vehemently when the Laal Masjid was being seiged ruthlessly by your hero. Now you are crying about the very consequences of such taking such a course of action. Us waqat agar thori aqal sey kaam liya hota, you wouldnt have been worried about the public's support, because its clear, the laal masjid incident pretty much sank into oblivion any support or credibility that the Govt had with the people, even the moderates.

Now be a good sport and before giving us that 'omg taliban is coming' rhetoric, admit what you cheered for in the past was wrong. Myabe then the people of Swat and adjoining areas will start to take you seriously. p.s. this isnt specifically meant for you, but all those who are now demanding public support against the Taliban but were blindly cheering for the dictators and politicians who nurtured them in the first place.

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You might be reading too much into it. You mentioned "corrupt dictatorship". Most people would assume the intended object for you there is Musharraf based on precedent of your earlier posts. The most that can be said is that you were misunderstood, and really didnt mean Musharraf when you said corrupt dictatorship.

[quote]

And what about your hate for Imran and Qazi? I remember you cheering vehemently when the Laal Masjid was being seiged ruthlessly by your hero. Now you are crying about the very consequences of such taking such a course of action. Us waqat agar thori aqal sey kaam liya hota, you wouldnt have been worried about the public's support, because its clear, the laal masjid incident pretty much sank into oblivion any support or credibility that the Govt had with the people, even the moderates.

[/quote]

There is little relevance of Swat with Lal Masjid, except for them extracting political mileage from the issue. The guy set up his radio racket in 2004, started attacking barbers and shops much before any operation.

[quote]

Now be a good sport and before giving us that 'omg taliban is coming' rhetoric, admit what you cheered for in the past was wrong. Myabe then the people of Swat and adjoining areas will start to take you seriously. p.s. this isnt specifically meant for you, but all those who are now demanding public support against the Taliban but were blindly cheering for the dictators and politicians who nurtured them in the first place.
[/quote]

There are many who both supported the operation against Lal Masjid and opposed Musharraf. So there is room for being correct on both issues.

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

^ Fallacy number 1: Lal masjid created taliban. Oh, if only some knew their history on jihadis and their brutality. Hint: it didn't start in 1999, it has a longer past. This guy named Zia comes to memory.

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Are you his spokesperson? I am sure he can speak for himself. Spare the long sentences and keep it short please.

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There is little relevance of Swat with Lal Masjid, except for them extracting political mileage from the issue. The guy set up his radio racket in 2004, started attacking barbers and shops much before any operation.

[/quote]
yeah sure, haha especially considering some of your 'friends' here try very hard to link lal masjid with taliban, or even the tahrik-e-insaf, even if they have to lie.

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There are many who both supported the operation against Lal Masjid and opposed Musharraf. So there is room for being correct on both issues.
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Lets assume there are such people; but how can we verify they are correct?

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If you wanted to have a private conversation with him the forum is not the place for it.

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yeah sure, haha especially considering some of your 'friends' here try very hard to link lal masjid with taliban, or even the tahrik-e-insaf, even if they have to lie.

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If some of my 'friends' try to like Lal Masjid with Taliban, Im sure it is not to suggest that Lal Masjid caused the Taleban problem.

You say:

*Now you are crying about the very consequences of such taking such a course of action. *

That is completely false. The taleban in Swat have been set up since 2004, a matter of record hard to deny given that they were broadcasting their radio since then. That they used Lal Masjid for rallying support is certainly not equivalent to them being a consequence of it.

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Lets assume there are such people; but how can we verify they are correct?
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Just to guage what that quesiton means tell me this: How do you verify the correctness of anything?

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Again, didn't read all your verbose post, please be concise but regarding the part in italics I see you didnt understand what I said. By that I mean consequences - as in lack of public support for govt operations against the talibs.

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Just to guage what that quesiton means tell me this: How do you verify the correctness of anything?
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You seem to have implied you were correct when you produced the righteous people who supported the lal masjid operation and opposed mushy so you tell us.

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So walk us through Lal Masjid operation and lack of public support for operations against the Talibs.

I can understand why they would try to claim the Lal Masjid operation as a PR tool, why is the public buying into that PR tool a necessary consequence.

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You seem to have implied you were correct when you produced the righteous people who supported the lal masjid operation and opposed mushy so you tell us.
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Ofcourse I implied I was correct. Any pov I hold and express here is with the belief that it is the correct pov.

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For that, please travel outside of lalukhet or KArachi. Just goto Islamabad, sector G-6 and across, go talk to the shop owners and market owners who have been living there since ages with the lal masjid and witnessed most of the ordeal and what they think about the lal masjid and musharraf. now when you see them cussing his holiness maharaja mush, please dont just call them taliban.

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I can understand why they would try to claim the Lal Masjid operation as a PR tool, why is the public buying into that PR tool a necessary consequence.

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Lal masjid operation was a stupid move. Attack a mosque, kill women and children and you are bound to enrage people. PR or no PR doesnt matter. Whats wrong is wrong. Those that cheered on this genocide, please dont demand any sympathies when the same forces are fighting the talibans because the deaths of women and children are fresh in people's minds.

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Ofcourse I implied I was correct. Any pov I hold and express here is with the belief that it is the correct pov.
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and I implied you're not according to my pov. theres plenty of people who are against musharraf and are against the lal masjid genocide.

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Please avoid making observations about where I travel.

[quote]

Just goto Islamabad, sector G-6 and across, go talk to the shop owners and market owners who have been living there since ages with the lal masjid and witnessed most of the ordeal and what they think about the lal masjid and musharraf. now when you see them cussing his holiness maharaja mush, please dont just call them taliban.

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I'll buy the argument that the operation was unpopular.

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Lal masjid operation was a stupid move. Attack a mosque, kill women and children and you are bound to enrage people.

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Which is possibly one of the reasons for the government not acting sooner. However when an armed group starts abducting people and state officials, and burns down state property, they need to act. Was it tragic? Ofcourse. Was it all the governments fault? No, because you're being myopic to the people keeping women, children inside an armed complex.

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PR or no PR doesnt matter. Whats wrong is wrong. Those that cheered on this genocide, please dont demand any sympathies when the same forces are fighting the talibans because the deaths of women and children are fresh in people's minds.

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The image of women and children dying is indeed powerful. Your theory is that Pakistan Army has irrevecably lost public support as a consequence? You say people who cheered on this 'genocide' shouldnt demand sympathies for the armed forces, what about you? Do you think the armed forces should be supported in any future operation, or will it take more time for you to recover?

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and I implied you're not according to my pov. theres plenty of people who are against musharraf and are against the lal masjid genocide.
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You went the tendentious route of asking whats correct. Please note that any assessment of correctness is always personal, you shouldnt attribute finality to it.

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first of all,u need to think many things rantionally…
taliban term is only being used..otherwise ttp is nothing more then a gang…a gang which is receiving support from cia,mi5,mossad,raw,iranians,russian intelligence etc…
there r many talibans who dont want to fight to army like maulvi nazir etc…all the problem is coming from bait ullah mehsud who is an american agent for sure…
when we talk abt jehadis or taliban or wht eva,it is necessary from war planning point of veiw tht who is our enemy and who is not?..unfortunately we neva really thinked tht way…no doubt there r extemist..no doubt there r people who want to take revenge of bombings by army…but mostly the problem is created by uzbek afghanis and criminal groups..
i seriously believe tht if army throws away its pro american image and take ulemas and many jehaids on board,terrorist aniamals like fazal ullah bait ullah can be easily isolated..and army operation will have far betta results..
yes qazi hussian imran khan should not support pigs like fazal ullah but u know many times they talked abt cruel facts..which we may ignore due to our hatred for these gangsters…
we pakis need to realise tht 3 world war is being carried out against us…and we can by long term planning…
i think this is the best time for army to take action against these thugs as people including pashtoons want peace and they have bcome sick of morons like fazal ullah…

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

Ahl-e-Sunnat are quick to declare people kaffir...they've a protracted history of doing so and many an eminent scholars have been their targets...

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As opposed to Sufi Mohammed who declared pretty much everyone in Pakistan (everybody who voted, or is a part of the democratic system) ?

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Honestly and seriously what's ur opinion when it's going to happen ?

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Re: Ahle Sunnat parties declared Sufi Muhammad rebel to Sharia

They did something right, finally.

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So why don't you condemn both or are you like all other so called liberal/secularists from our part of the world, who are inherently incapable of practicing what they preach and are just as violent, extremist, and intolerant as those they purport to crusade against...

And while you are at it please officially declare Pakistani constitution superior to Quran....