age 40

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

This sura mentions the age 40. Is this meant in a literal sense?

[al-Ahqaf 46:15.43] We have enjoined on man kindness to his parents: In pain did his mother bear him, and in pain did she give him birth. The carrying of the (child) to his weaning is (a period of) thirty months. At length, when he reaches the age of full strength and attains forty years, he says, “O my Lord! Grant me that I may be grateful for Thy favour which Thou has bestowed upon me, and upon both my parents, and that I may work righteousness such as Thou mayest approve; and be gracious to me in my issue. Truly have I turned to Thee and truly do I bow (to Thee) in Islam.”

This was posted by niazi in another post:

Is this a factual statement?

2

age 40 is a mature age at which man achieves wisdom and intellectual zenith. surprisingly all Prophets received revelations from Almighty during their 4th decade. i think thats why age 40 is so important.

3

raaj-dulara...<>

all prophets? How about Prophet Eisa, pbuh? He did not even live for forty years. and he was bestowed with Prophethood in his early months, leave alone years. remember in his cribe he pronounced that Allah has sent him as a nabi.

4

zawiya-e-fikr aap quran khool ker zra tawajah say perhain phir aiteraaz kejeayga... its not Allah that said, its the people who said that he spoke in crib and they said so in a taunting tone and used that phrase as an expression, like we use to say in urdu "yay kal ka bacha kya janay baroon ki batain" (some thing like that..)

Quran is not a piece of cake.. people have spent ages on discovering meaning of even single verses... you just jump up to conclusions and allegation from the translation you have on your shelves and not through the wisdom that Allah has given you.

jazakallah

5

raj-dulara jee

What I said was from Qura~n. It is actualy your copy which is gathering dust, not mine. Please read here:

"Then she pointed to him. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle? He (Eisa) said: "Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

Such is 'Iesa, son of Maryam. (it is) a statement of truth, about which they doubt (or dispute).

Sura Maryam 29-34

raj-dulara..
<>

I forgive you.

6

Zawiya, you just proved raaj-dulara's point by quoting the aya'at! Thank you.

The verse says 'She pointed to him' .. does not say 'she pointed to him in the cradle'

To which 'They', the unbelievers said with arrogance, 'How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle' If taken literally, yes it does mean that Hazrat Isa (as) was in cradle. Though I understand it like raaj-dulara does, that 'they' used the phrase as a 'mahawara' or a figure of speech.

raj-dulara,

Even still, this doesn't prove that Hazrat Isa (as) was given prophethood at the age of 40. Or that 'all' prophets were given prophethood at the age of 40. Does it? Let me point out to you that according to the main stream Muslim belief:

1) Hazrat Isa (as) ascended to heaven at age 33. So do the Christians believe ... (I believe neither) Therefore, he has to be bestowed with prophethood before the age 33.
2) It is believed that the prophets of older days used to live very long lives. It is claimed that Hazrat Noah lived 900 years. So how does the year 40 comes to significance.

aishaA,

Thank you for pointing this out. I will look into this aya'at and share my views. :)

7

ahmadjee....<>

You are talking or arguing like Jews used to do. Please forgive my remarks. The ayas are very clear that Maryam pointed towards Eisa and Eisa replied:

"He (Eisa) said: "Verily! I am a slave of Allâh, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!"

weather their's was a sarcastic remark or otherwise, has no significance here as the Prophet Eisa, pbuh himself spoke as above.

and while showering your so called infinite knowledge upon raaj-dulara you further spoke:

<<1) Hazrat Isa (as) ascended to heaven at age 33. So do the Christians believe ... (I believe neither) >>

why is it that you ahmadees britle every post with your own agenda. By declaring the above, you have separated yourself from not only mainstream Islam, but also Christianity. But when someone will pin you down, you will cry foul.

I am sure you will soon resort to pledging as your Master have been paroting all along that Eisa was brought to Kashmir and died and buried there and later on re-incarnated in the form of your Masiha, called MGA. (?) twisted versions!!!

I had a brief discussion with you last, and reminded you that I am not interested in discussing 'Mirzai' beliefs with you.

8

Zawiya, bhai jub ghusa thunda ho jayay to zaroor come back and participate in this post. Theek?

9

[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
*weather their's was a sarcastic remark or otherwise, has no significance here as the Prophet Eisa, pbuh himself spoke as above.
*
[/quote]

I don't believe the dispute here is whether or not hazrat Esa, pbuh, spoke. The dispute is whether he spoke from the cradle or as an adult.

I may be misunderstanding or misinterpretting. I need to read the portions before and after the quoted ayat.

10

19: 19. She said, `I seek refuge with the Gracious God from thee if indeed thou dost fear HIM.'

19: 20. The angel said, `I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may give thee glad tidings of a righteous son.'

19: 21. She said, `How can I have a son when no man has touched me, neither have I been unchaste ?'

19: 22. The angel said, Thus it shall be.' But says thy Lord,It is easy for ME; and WE shall do so that WE may make him a Sign unto men, and a mercy from US, and it is a thing decreed.'

19: 23. So she conceived him, and withdrew with him to a remote place.

19: 24. And the pains of child-birth drove her unto the trunk of a palm-tree. She said, `O, would that I had died before this and had become a thing quite forgotten !

19: 25. Then the angel called her from beneath her, saying, `Grieve not. Thy Lord has placed a rivulet below thee;

19: 26. `And shake towards thyself the trunk of the palm-tree; it will drop upon thee fresh ripe dates;

19: 27. So, eat and drink and cool thine eye. And if thou seest any man, say,I have vowed a fast to the Gracious God; I will, therefore, not speak this day to any human being.'

19: 28. Then she brought him to her people, mounted. They said, `O Mary, surely, thou hast committed a monstrous thing !

19: 29. `O sister of Aaron, thy father was not a wicked man, nor was thy mother an unchaste woman !'

19: 30. Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, `How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle ?'

19: 31. Jesus said, `I am a servant of ALLAH. HE has given me the Book, and has made me a Prophet;

19: 32. `And HE has made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and has enjoined upon me Prayer and almsgiving so long as I live;

19: 33. `And HE has made me dutiful towards my mother, and has not made me arrogant and graceless;

19: 34. `And peace was on me the day I was born, and peace will be on me the day I shall die, and the day I shall be raised up to life again.'

19: 35. That was Jesus, son of Mary. This is a statement of the truth concerning which they entertain doubt.

19: 36. It does not befit the Majesty of ALLAH to take unto Himself a son. Holy is HE. When HE decrees a thing, HE says to it, `Be, and it comes into being.'

19: 37. Said Jesus, `Surely, ALLAH is my Lord and your Lord, so worship HIM alone, this is the right path.'

19: 38. But the parties differed among themselves; so woe to those who disbelieve, because of the meeting of a grievous day.

19: 39. How will they hear and see on the day when they will come to US ! But today the wrongdoers are in manifest error.

11

Hazrat Isa (as) claims here that Allah has given him a book and also claims that he is dutiful towards his mother, not arrogant & graceless.

If Hazrat Isa (as) were in fact in the cradle speaking, then the disbelievers would have surely laughed at the above claims. As neither could he had proved to have a book, nor that he 'has been' dutiful towards his mother.

Though, I do not claim to have infinite knowledge, so can be proven wrong in my interpretation! For now that's my stand on this issue. :)

12

Ahmedjee

I'm not being disrespectful, but you must be either Blind or Plain Stupid.

The Ayat you have produced concerning Jesus is so self explanatory, that 99.9999999999% of Muslims worldwide know that Jesus spoke in Infancy in order to clear his Mother from all allegations.

The English translations where you have decided to go astray are at verse 27 and 31.

My Translations read the following:

019.027 At length she brought the (babe) to her people, carrying him (in her arms).

They said: "O Mary! truly an amazing thing hast thou brought!

019.031 "And He hath made me blessed wheresoever I be, and hath enjoined on me Prayer and Charity as long as I live;

Regardless of whose Translation is correct or incorrect, even Verse 30 should of opened your eyes, because it clearly points to the cradle!!!!

The concensus of the majority of the Islamic world confirms that Jesus spoke at Birth. This is one of the Miracles attached to Jesus, with the Grace of Allah.

Let's put the English translations to the side and concentrate on the Arabic wordings.

In verse 31, the Arabic words used are Salaat Wa Zakaat. NOT Kitaab (BOOK), as you have incorrectly stated. This confirms that at Birth Jesus did not state Book. Therefore you reasons are nullified!

Please read the Qur'aan.

However, I am not here to change your views and practices. I am merely exposing your errors!!

13

Sholay,

I understand your point of view but do not agree with it. Sorry.

I think you got confused due to the offset of ayat numbers. The quran I was quoting from, considers ‘Bismillah ..’ as the first ayat! So the verse 31 you are looking at in your translation is actually the verse 32 in the above stated translation.

Hazrat Isa (as) did claim to have a book. Please look at ayat 30 in your text or at this link http://www.cis.usouthal.edu/~mahmad/books/quran/maryam-ayat-26-30.jpg

I have pointed out the ‘AlKitaba’ for you.

So, my argument still holds. If you disagree you have every right to do so.

I do not consider ‘majority’ of muslims believing in one thing makes it a ‘truth’ or even to be a valid argument. :slight_smile:

14

Ahmedjee

OK, let's put the numbering of the ayats to the side for the moment and concentrate on the Qur'aan.

We all know without of a shadow of a doubt that their can be no discrepancies in the Qur'aan, regardless of which subject is mentioned in any ayat, at any part, in any verse. The Qur'aan does not and will never contradict itself.

Therefore, the following ayat also confirms that Jesus spoke in infancy:

003.045 Behold! the angels said: "O Mary! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a Word from Him: his name will be Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honour in this world and the Hereafter and of (the company of) those nearest to Allah;

003.046 "He shall speak to the people in childhood and in maturity. And he shall be (of the company) of the righteous."

Do you still stand by your initial stance!

15

I agree with Sholay and I think I have read this in some book (quoting the Bible) too. If I'm not mistaking.

“na maiN* momin vich masiitaa*N, na maiN* muusaa, na fir'aun!”
*

16

Absolutely, there is no contradiction in Quran. Not now, not ever.

I agree that your interpretation holds significance. But sorry to say, it still fails to convince me.

The verse indeed talks about Hazrat Isa (as) 'speaking' in childhood & maturity but does not specify what childhood stands for. A 10 year old boy is in his childhood, and so is 15 year old.

And when Allah says 'speaking' I understanding it to be preaching word of Allah. Not just normal speech. And indeed it was a miracle of Allah to have Hazrat Isa (as) so young but yet so mature!

Ali,

Bible does not say anything about Hazrat Isa (as) talking in the cradle. Though its a wide spread Christian belief, according to their traditions.

[quote]
There is a second century Arabic apocryphal fable from Egypt called the Gospel of the Infancy of Jesus Christ which mentions this:
*
"...Jesus spoke when he was in the cradle, and said to his mother: "Mary, I am Jesus the Son of God, the Word, which thou didst bring forth according to the declaration of the angel Gabriel, and My Father hath sent me for the salvation of the world."*

[/quote]

I believe that's how far back you can trace the idea of Hazrat Isa (as) talking from the cradle in the Christian tradition.

17

Ahmadjee,

Hmmmm…as I told you I might be wrong that it is in the BIBLE. I will look this up

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

*“na maiN momin vich masiitaaN, na maiN muusaa, na fir’aun!”
*

18

Ahmedjee

Jesus was a child in a cradle.

This has been confirmed by the following ayat in both of our English Translations:

19: 30. Thereupon she pointed to him. They said, `How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle ?'

019.029 But she pointed to the babe. They said: "How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?"

The main eveidence is that the Arabic wording has also confirmed the word 'cradle'.

We both know very well that no child between 10 and 15 years of age can and does sleep in a cradle.

Furthermore, Mary did not isolate herself with Jesus for years on end and then try and slip into the mainstream public while the child was older hoping that noone would realise. Mary came back to the community immediately because she was ordered to do so by Allah in order to Glorify Allahs Greatness and Miracle.

The Qur'aan makes it abundantly clear that Jesus spoke in childhood whilst in the cradle.

It's pointless clutching at straws, but like I said before, I am not trying to change your views or ways of thinking.

Each person to their own.

19

ahmadjee....<<The verse indeed talks about Hazrat Isa (as) 'speaking' in childhood & maturity but does not specify what childhood stands for. A 10 year old boy is in his childhood, and so is 15 year old.

with the same token, you could be still in your childhood.

I feel pity for your quest of staying afloat. Reminds me a sheyr

ham talib e shuhrat hain, hamain nang say kiya aar?
badnam agar na houn gay tou kiya naam na hoga!

20

[quote]
Originally posted by zawiyaefikr:
*ahmadjee....<<The verse indeed talks about Hazrat Isa (as) 'speaking' in childhood & maturity...
*
[/quote]

The word maturity in arabic was translated as "Kahoolat" (Kahala)....

And a man attains kahoolat at age of 40....
Hadhrat Isa (AS) was taken to heavens at age of 32 or 33.... It confirms the second coming of same ISA (AS)....

You (Muslims) are the best nation ever raised among the mankind: (because) you
advocate righteousness and FORBID EVIL, and you believe in (one) GOD (ALLAH).

(Sura: Alay-Imran; Ayat:110)

**Sitaaron Pay Jo Daltay Hain Kamand!**

Shaheen=An Eagle or A Flacon!
(And yes it's a **MALE* Shaheen ;-)*