Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
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Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
An excellent article by the Indian author Arundhati Roy on the gaping holes in the government’s case against Afzal Guru, calling the execution on this man a stain on India.
It is clear that the evidence against Afzal Guru was fabricated, and he was murdered by the state to make the people feel better about the Parliamentary attack.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
Why they didn’t ask him to serve the cows???
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
Afzal Guru’s family snubs India’s offer to visit jail grave | World | DAWN.COM
NEW DELHI: The family of Mohammed Afzal Guru who was executed over the weekend has rejected an offer by Indian authorities to pray at his graveside inside a prison, insisting the body be buried in his home state.
Home Secretary R.K. Singh made the offer Tuesday and said that the belongings of Mohammed Afzal Guru, an Indian Muslim who was executed and buried at Tihar Jail on Saturday for his role in the deadly 2001 Indian parliament attack, would be handed over to his family members.
“We have no problem if the immediate family of Afzal Guru wants to come and offer prayers at his grave in Tihar jail. Belongings of Afzal will be returned to the family,” Singh told reporters in Delhi.
However a relative of Guru said that the family had no intention of visiting his grave, insisting that the body be brought back to his home in Indian-administered Kashmir.
“As Muslims we can pray for Afzal from here,” the separatist’s cousin Yasin Guru told AFP from the family’s hometown of Sopore in the Kashmir Valley.
“We will go to Tihar only if the government of India is kind enough to hand us his body for burial here.”
The announcement comes amid criticism of the government for failing to inform the family about the execution before he went to the gallows.
A letter sent from the government announcing that his mercy plea had been rejected only arrived at the family’s home on Monday morning.
Indian-administered Kashmir’s Chief Minister Omar Abdullah, normally an ally of the government, has been among those criticising the handling of the execution, saying he found it “very difficult” to reconcile himself to the fact that Guru was not given the opportunity to see his family for the last time.
Guru was convicted of helping a group of militants plot an 2001 attack on the Indian parliament which left 10 people dead.
He always maintained his innocence and many of his supporters accused police of framing evidence against him in the case.
A curfew has been in place since Saturday throughout much of Indian-administered Kashmir.
There have also been protests in Pakistani-administered Kashmir.
A burial plot, complete with a headstone, has been prepared for Guru in the so-called ‘Martyrs’ Graveyard’ in Srinagar, the main city in Indian-administered Kashmir.
The inscription reads: “His mortal remains are lying in trust with the government of India, the Kashmiri nation awaits its return,” according to an AFP photographer who has seen the tombstone.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
Afzal Guru’s Wife’s Letter: An Appeal that Remained Unheard
Kashmir Times
21 October 2004
A Wife’s Appeal for Justice
I am the wife of Mohammad Afzal, the man accused of conspiring to attack the Indian Parliament on December 13, 2001. Afzal has been condemned to death by the Sessions Court Judge, S N Dhingra and his death sentence has been confirmed by the Hon’ble High Court of Delhi. Now the case has come up before the Hon’ble Supreme Court of India.
All over India people have condemned the attack on Parliament. And I agree that it was a terrorist attack and must be condemned. However, it is also important that the people accused of such a serious crime be given a fair trial and their story be fully heard before they are punished. I believe that no one has heard my husband’s story and he has so far never been represented in the court properly.
I appeal to you to hear our story and then decide for yourselves whether justice has been done. Afzal and my story is the story of many young Kashmiri couples. Our story represents the tragedy facing our people.
In 1990 Afzal was attracted to the movement led by the JKLF, like thousands of other youth. He went to Pakistan for training and stayed there for a little while. However, he was disillusioned by the differences between different groups and he did not support pro-Pakistani groups. He stayed there only three months without getting any training. Afzal returned to Kashmir and he went to Delhi to pursue his studies. He always wanted to study and before he joined the movement he was doing his MBBS.
My husband wanted to return to normal life and with that intention he surrendered to the BSF. The BSF Commandant refused to give him his certificate till he had motivated two others to surrender. And Afzal motivated two other militants to surrender. He was given a certificate stating that he was a surrendered militant. You will not perhaps realise that it is very difficult to live as a surrendered militant in Kashmir but he decided to live with his family in Kashmir. In 1997 he started a small business of medicines and surgical instruments in Kashmir. The next year we were married. He was 28 years old and I was 18 years.
Throughout the period that we lived in Kashmir the Indian security forces continuously harassed Afzal and told him to spy on people they suspected of being militants.** One Major Ram Mohan Roy of 22 Rashtriya Rifles tortured Afzal and gave him electric shocks in his private parts. He was humiliated and abused.
**
The Indian security forces used to regularly take Afzal to their camps and torture him. They wanted to extract information from him. **One night the Indian security forces came to our home and abused all of us and took away Afzal to their camp; another time he was taken to the STF (State Task Force) camp Palhalan Pattan.
**
Some days later they took him to the Humhama STF camp. In that camp the officers, DSP Vinay Gupta and DSP Darinder Singh demanded Rs one lakh. **We are not a rich family and we had to sell everything, including the little gold I got on my marriage to save Afzal from the torture.
**
**Afzal was kept in freezing water and petrol was put into his anus. One officer Shanti Singh hanged my husband upside down for hours naked and in the cold. They gave electric shocks in his penis and he had to have treatment for days.
**
You will think that Afzal must be involved in some militant activities that is why the security forces were torturing him to extract information. But you must understand the situation in Kashmir, every man, woman and child has some information on the movement even if they are not involved. By making people into informers they turn brother against brother, wife against husband and children against parents. Afzal wanted to live quietly with his family but the STF would not allow him.
You should also know that the STF force is notorious in Kashmir for extorting money from the people and they have become so infamous that when Mufti Sayed became the Chief Minister he promised in his election manifesto to disband the entire force.** The STF is known for human rights violations including killing people in their custody and brutal, senseless, inhuman torture.**
It was under these conditions that forced Afzal to leave his home, family and settle in Delhi. He struggled hard to earn a living and he had decided to bring me and our four-year old son, Ghalib, to Delhi. Like any other family we dreamed of living together peacefully and bringing up our children, giving them a good education and seeing them grow up to be good human beings. That dream was cut short when once again the STF got hold of my husband in Delhi.
The STF told my husband to bring one man Mohammad to Delhi from Kashmir. He met Mohammad and one other man Tariq there at the STF camp. He did not know anything about the men and he had no idea why he was being asked to do the job. He has told all this to the court but the court chose to believe half his statement about bringing Mohammad but not the bit that he was told to do so by the STF.
There was no one to represent Afzal in the lower court. The court appointed a lawyer who never took instructions from Afzal, or cross examined the prosecution witnesses. That lawyer was communal and showed his hatred for my husband. When my husband told Judge Dhingra that he did not want that lawyer the judge ignored him. In fact my husband went totally undefended in the trial court. When ever my husband wished to say something the judge would not hear him out and the judge showed his communal bias in open court.
In the High Court one human rights lawyer offered to represent Afzal and my husband accepted. But instead of defending Afzal the lawyer began by asking the court not to hang Afzal but to kill him by a lethal injection. My husband never expressed any desire to die. He has maintained that he has been entrapped by the STF. My husband was shocked but he had no way of changing his lawyer while being locked up in the high security jail. It was only after the High Court judgement was pronounced he got to know about the way the lawyer had represented him. Afzal refused to accept the same lawyer for his appeal in the Supreme Court. I had no way of getting Afzal a lawyer. I do not know anyone in Delhi. Finally Afzal wrote to the Defence Committee set up for Mr Geelani. I am annexing his letter. And the Defence Committee helped Afzal to get a senior lawyer, Mr Sushil Kumar. However, the Supreme Court cannot go into the evidence and so I do not know what will happen.
I appeal to you to ensure that my husband is not condemned to death and he is ensured a fair trial. Surely your conscience will not allow you to be a party to the death of a fellow human being who has not been represented in the court and who has not had a chance to tell his story? The police have made him falsely confess before the media even before the trial started. **They humiliated him, beat him, tortured him and even urinated in his mouth. **I feel deep shame to talk about these things in public but circumstances have forced me. It has taken a lot of courage for me to put all this on paper but I do so for the sake of my child who is now six years old.
Will you speak out at the injustice my husband has faced? Will you speak out on my behalf? I am of course fighting for my husband’s life, for the life of my son’s father. But I also speak as a Kashmiri woman who is losing faith in Indian democracy and its ability to be fair to Kashmiri Muslims.
*Tabassum
Source: Afzal Guru’s Wife’s Letter: An Appeal that Remained Unheard
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
A Kashmiri friend of mine keeps telling me incidents of brutality by STF in Jamu Kashmir that would even ashame nazis. Brothers and fathers committed suicides after what was done to their ladies in their houses in front of them.
To the Brutal Hindus of India: Wait and Watch!
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
arundhati roy’s article was thoroughly debunked by praveen swami, india’s most respectable journalist and a committed secular liberal often labeled anti-national for his criticism of the state and military. his domain of expertise also happens to be terrorism/intelligence/military affairs…not fiction-writing.
The vanity of 13/12 ‘truth-telling’
Praveen Swami
The ground beneath Arundhati Roy’s seismic claims on the Parliament House attack, is shaky — to say the least
“Everyone is entitled to their own opinions”, the American politician Daniel Patrick Moynihan — among others — is credited with having said, “but not to his own facts.”
Muhammad Afzal Guru’s execution on Saturday morning — a grim spectacle, where the Indian government disgraced itself by denying his family a last meeting, or a dignified burial — has set off perhaps the most serious debate on the death penalty India has ever seen. Legal experts have cast no small doubt on whether Guru received a fair trial; whether his guilt was proved; whether his death penalty was legitimate. These debates engaged some of India’s finest legal minds for months, both on the side of the state and defence. The Supreme Court’s word is not, and ought not to be, the final word. Indeed, the deep ambiguities that surround Guru’s case are in themselves compelling argument to rethink the death penalty.
In her article in The Hindu, however, Arundhati Roy makes claims that far transcend this debate. In her reading of events, Guru is “a victim of torture, blackmail, extortion. In the larger scheme of things he was a nobody. Anyone who was really interested in solving the mystery of the Parliament Attack would have followed the dense trail of evidence that was on offer. No one did, thereby ensuring that the real authors of conspiracy will remain unidentified and uninvestigated”. Political parties and the media, she asserted, “all colluded to do something terribly wrong”.
Back in 2006, in her introduction to a collection of essays on the 13/12 trial, Ms Roy insisted Guru had been “plucked out of thin air” and transplanted into the centre of the ‘conspiracy’ as its kingpin. She had no doubt the investigation and trial threw up evidence of state “complicity, collusion, involvement”.
Errors of the first kind
Is there actual evidence that 13/12 is a macabre plot, in which the criminal justice system and judiciary are implicated? Ms Roy builds her case around what can, at best, be described as parts of the evidence, cherry-picked for polemical effect. For example, Ms Roy raises questions over how police investigators chose to apprehend Guru in the first place. “They said”, Ms Roy notes, “that S.A.R. Geelani led them to him. But the court records show that the message to arrest Afzal went out before they picked up Geelani”. In Ms Roy’s view, this lends weight to the claim that Guru was framed.
In fact, a quite different conclusion can be arrived at. In paragraph 78 of his judgment, Additional Sessions judge S.N. Dhingra arrived at the conclusion that Mr. Geelani and Afsan Guru were probably taken into custody by the police after 8 p.m. on December 14, 2001 — some 14 hours before their arrest was legally recorded. Put bluntly, Mr. Geelani and Ms Afsan were in illegal custody when the Delhi Police sent its message seeking Guru. This illegal detention was criminal — but doesn’t suggest the existence of a sinister mystery over the timing of Guru’s arrest.
Ms Roy has pointed to several other potential flaws in the evidence the prosecution used during the trial. She notes, for example, that a laptop seized from Guru was not properly sealed. However, Ms Roy omits to record that the Supreme Court discussed this issue at some length, concluding that a defence expert witness’ testimony did not “substantiate the point of criticism about the possible tampering of laptop nor does it make a dent on the findings of the experts examined by the prosecution”.
This may not be a conclusion Ms Roy agrees with; the defence most certainly did not. Yet,she cites no evidence, compelling or otherwise, to dispute the judges’ appraisal of expert testimony.
Less excusable is Ms Roy’s censoring of facts that sit ill with her account. She asserts, for example, that Guru lacked legal representation “at the most crucial stage of a criminal case”. However, she omits mentioning that Supreme Court judges P. Venkatarama Reddi and P.P. Naolekar heard extensive arguments on the quality of Guru’s legal representation in the trial court — and concluded that they found “no substance in this contention”. The judges examined precisely what proceedings took place during every period when Guru was unrepresented, and concluded that they did not include substantive, adverse proceedings.
This judicial determination will — and ought to be — subjected to continued critical scrutiny but there is nothing to show the judicial system was blind to Guru’s legal rights.
Ms Roy’s account in The Hindu of suspicions about the investigation isn’t, understandably, exhaustive. Guru, for example, claimed he had been instructed to carry out the plot by a Jammu and Kashmir Police officer, Davinder Singh. His supporters argue the police officer was never investigated. Prosecutors, however, say there was nothing in the evidence they found — which, after all, stood repeated judicial scrutiny — on an allegation they believe was intended to mislead.
**
Error of the second kind**
The larger assertions Ms Roy makes, based on her selective reading of evidence, are even less grounded in the real world. “Based only on Afzal’s confession”, she claims, “the Government of India recalled its Ambassador from Pakistan and mobilised half a million soldiers to the Pakistan border”.
In fact, there’s a fairly persuasive body of evidence that tells us just who carried out the attack — and why. In testimony to Pakistan’s Senate in 2003, former Inter-Services Intelligence chief Lieutenant-General Javed Ashraf Qazi called on his nation to “not be afraid of admitting that the Jaish was involved in the deaths of thousands of innocent Kashmiris, bombing the Indian Parliament, Daniel Pearl’s murder and attempts on President Musharraf’s life”.
Pakistani scholar Muhammad Amir Rana, in a 2004 book, noted that the Jaish-e-Muhammad had initially taken responsibility for the operation but later retracted “under pressure from various agencies”. Independent journalists like Amir Mir have held the Jaish responsible for the operation; scholars like Peter Chalk and C. Christine Fair have arrived at much the same conclusion.
Few of these facts were unknown to anyone who followed the Jaish-e-Muhammad at the time — least of all to governments either in India or the rest of the world.
**Grave truth
**
Precisely how easy it is to deduce conspiracy from incomplete evidence ought to be clear from the case of Mohammad Yasin Fateh Mohammad, who, Ms Roy noted in her essay, was identified by Thane’s then-Police Commissioner S.M. Shangari as one of the Parliament attackers. Mohammad had earlier been handed over to the J&K Police by the Thane Police, Ms Roy noted.
Had she bothered to consult public documents, a somewhat less categorical reading of Mr. Shangari’s testimony might have suggested itself. Mohammad, a resident of Allahabad — a small town that lies between Rahim Yar Khan and Bahawalpur, in Pakistan’s Punjab — was shot dead by the police while allegedly attempting to escape from custody. So were two other men held with him — 22-year-old Faislabad resident Mohammad Tayyab Niaz and 24-year-old Mohammad Afzal Shahid. These killings were, quite possibly, extrajudicial executions but they took place between December 19, 2000 and February 13, 2001. Mohammad was in a grave in January, 2001, 11 months before 13/12.
Ms Roy is right on one key issue: we are still far from knowing the full truth of 13/12. It is likely that many of the unanswered questions might resolve themselves if Pakistan were ever to arrest Jaish-e-Muhammad chief Maulana Masood Azhar — currently living, in some luxury, in his Bahawalpur home. Nothing in recent experience — witness the 26/11 case — suggests this will happen.
Perhaps the most damaging vanity of journalists, as well as political pamphleteers of a certain kind, is the certainty that there is something called the “full truth”. There is a reason, after all, that each year’s crop of historical journals publish appraisals of everything from 17th century riots to the Vietnam War. The ground beneath Ms Roy’s seismic claims, however, is shaky — to say the least.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
A Kashmiri friend of mine keeps telling me incidents of brutality by STF in Jamu Kashmir that would even ashame nazis. Brothers and fathers committed suicides after what was done to their ladies in their houses in front of them.
To the Brutal Hindus of India: Wait and Watch!
wait and watch for what? the bs that people like you come up with has been exposed numerous times and that's why nobody believes that bs. Yeah right, a 'kashmiri friends of yours keep telling you...'! indeed!
just read the so called letter from the terrorist's wife just above your post - she so easily glosses over how he crossed to Pakistan, worked with the jihadis there and wants us to believe that he deserves any better treatment? Do you know how such scum attacked family quarters of police and military personnel and killed women adn children? For almost a wholde decade crooks like this guy helped Pakistani cross border terorrism. Now both stand exposed suffering the shame and aftermath of terrorism. That is how natural justice prevails.
Yeah we waited, we watched and we won because truth does that.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
"India will suffer what Kashmiris have gone through" *Arundhati Roy
*
New Delhi, Jan 25: Underscoring the need to punish the military and para military forces for the heinous crimes they have allegedly committed in Kashmir, renowned writer and social activist Arundhati Roy said that Indians will have to suffer in future what the people of Kashmir have gone through over last two decades. She accused India of not being serious in punishing the military, paramilitary, police and government backed gunmen who had been declared accused in the various heinous crimes.
“Security forces involved in various heinous crimes including custodial killings and disappearances, rapes and declared accused through FIR’s and other reports have evaded action which has resulted in making them (Security Forces) habitual offenders. These habitual offenders when deployed in other states will commit the same offences against innocent people”, opined Roy while speaking during a debate over the recent report released by Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP), at Gandhi Peace Foundation Delhi organized by Peoples Union for Democratic Rights (PUDR). “To continue its occupation in Kashmir India has made its forces immune from every law there. If civil society of India and other human rights activist do not take appropriate steps after going through the report of APDP, we will feel ashamed in future”, she added.
She said that the State High Court and government established human rights commissions have held that military and Para military forces are involved in various heinous crimes but both State and Central governments have not shown any seriousness in punishing them.
APDP’s Parvez Imroz, while representing the report said that India has set free its forces in Kashmir to commit human rights violations and no action is taken against the personnel involved in heinous and gruesome human rights violations.
Quoting reference from APDP’s report, he said that more than 500 accused security forces personnel involved in 214 cases have not been brought to book.
Terming the APDP report based on facts, Human Rights Activist Kartik Markotla said that the report was prepared after obtaining official records through RTI Act and the reports filed in FIR’s. He said that the registered FIR’s in various Police stations had held 500 military, paramilitary, policemen and government backed gunmen accused, adding, “India is neither serious nor sincere in punishing these accused persons”.
He said that the deliberate silence of India against Human Rights violations committed by security forces in Kashmir is unfortunate and the role of national media has been partial or irresponsible regarding it.
Expressing his views on the report, Nivedita Menon said, “Since day one India has closed its eyes from the facts pertaining to human rights violations in Kashmir that is why the violations continue to occur in Valley. “Facts are being distorted in the FIR’s regarding custodial killings, forced disappearances or rape and other heinous crimes”, said Menon.
Pertinently, APDP headed by Advocate Parvez Imroz in a press conference at Srinagar had made a report public about the alleged human rights violation committed by the security forces. In its report it had alleged that 500 security forces are involved in the 214 cases of custodial killings and disappearances and other heinous crimes. “235 Army men, 123 para military forces, 111 Policemen and 31 government backed gun men are involved in these human right violation cases”, read the report.
The report was debated in Delhi and the debate was organized at Gandhi Peace Foundation and organized by peoples union for Democratic rights. The second debate on the report will be held in Brislin on 26th January while various prominent including APDP members and Advocate Qadeer Dar of Voice of Victims have been invited to participate in the debate.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
@ Nikhil
It is exaggeration to say Arundhati Roy's article was " thoroughly debunked". Just couple examples.
Roy: timing of arrest suspect. Made before geelany arrest
Swamy: Both suspect ant geelany could have been arrested hours before the arrest made official. While this is criminal, it is plausible! Some debunking!
Roy: laptop was tampered with
Swamy judge heard this evidence. But concluded this did not put dent in case. Again some debunking!
Looks like Swamy made up his mind suspect was guilty. There appears to be doubt.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
wait and watch for what? the bs that people like you come up with has been exposed numerous times and that's why nobody believes that bs. Yeah right, a 'kashmiri friends of yours keep telling you...'! indeed!
just read the so called letter from the terrorist's wife just above your post - she so easily glosses over how he crossed to Pakistan, worked with the jihadis there and wants us to believe that he deserves any better treatment? Do you know how such scum attacked family quarters of police and military personnel and killed women adn children? For almost a wholde decade crooks like this guy helped Pakistani cross border terorrism. Now both stand exposed suffering the shame and aftermath of terrorism. That is how natural justice prevails.
Yeah we waited, we watched and we won because truth does that.
Let us not overtly carried away here. You have to understand the turbulent nature of the time. When security forces are doing what they were supposed to be doing, it would have been easy for the the youth to get carried away.He tried to reform himself by surrendering.
We do not know the entire truth, but as a country we had a moral duty to make sure that Afzal got a fair trial. He should have got atleast the lawyers of his choice to represent him. While we could do it for Kasab, why could we not do it for Guru.
It is said that Geelani led the police to Guru. Isnt it a contradiction that Geelani himself was acquitted.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
wait and watch for what? the bs that people like you come up with has been exposed numerous times and that's why nobody believes that bs. Yeah right, a 'kashmiri friends of yours keep telling you...'! indeed!
Yes, deaths 10s of 1000s of Kashmiris slaughter by your army is also fake.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
In fact, a quite different conclusion can be arrived at. In paragraph 78 of his judgment, **Additional Sessions judge S.N. Dhingra arrived at the conclusion that Mr. Geelani and Afsan Guru were probably taken into custody by the police after 8 p.m. on December 14, 2001 — some 14 hours before their arrest was legally recorded. **Put bluntly, Mr. Geelani and Ms Afsan were in illegal custody when the Delhi Police sent its message seeking Guru. This illegal detention was criminal — but doesn’t suggest the existence of a sinister mystery over the timing of Guru’s arrest.
Ms Roy has pointed to several other potential flaws in the evidence the prosecution used during the trial. She notes, for example, that a laptop seized from Guru was not properly sealed. However, Ms Roy omits to record that the Supreme Court discussed this issue at some length, concluding that a defence expert witness’ testimony did not “substantiate the point of criticism about the possible tampering of laptop nor does it make a dent on the findings of the experts examined by the prosecution”.
Less excusable is Ms Roy’s censoring of facts that sit ill with her account. She asserts, for example, that Guru lacked legal representation “at the most crucial stage of a criminal case”. However, she omits mentioning that Supreme Court judges P. Venkatarama Reddi and P.P. Naolekar heard extensive arguments on the quality of Guru’s legal representation in the trial court — and concluded that they found “no substance in this contention”. The judges examined precisely what proceedings took place during every period when Guru was unrepresented, and concluded that they did not include substantive, adverse proceedings.
Ms Roy’s account in The Hindu of suspicions about the investigation isn’t, understandably, exhaustive. Guru, for example, claimed he had been instructed to carry out the plot by a Jammu and Kashmir Police officer, Davinder Singh. His supporters argue the police officer was never investigated. Prosecutors, however, say there was nothing in the evidence they found — which, after all, stood repeated judicial scrutiny — on an allegation they believe was intended to mislead.
..
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
Sound of an arrogant mind.
"Time is on the side of the oppressed today, it’s against the oppressor. Truth is on the side of the oppressed today, it’s against the oppressor. You don’t need anything else. "Malcolm X, *Malcolm X Speaks, 1965
[Quote Details: Malcolm X: Time is on the… - The Quotations Page]
(Quote Details: Malcolm X: Time is on the... - The Quotations Page)*
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
^ not being arrogant but facts or facts. Anyone is entitled their opinions but not their own version of facts. Facts are unique. There is only one set of facts.
The fact in this case is after the case was proven and sentenced, this traitor and murdered hung on for years by using politics and beuracracy as his tactics. I despise the crooks and politicians who let that happen but that does not make the traitor and murderer any better.
And when somebody says 'wait and watch' I am mere pointing to another set of facts - in this case the fact about how terrorism turned around and is biting Pakistan itself now.
Yes, could I word these sentiments better? sure. My heart does certainly weep when a God's creature needs to be put down - but this creature/guy/Afsal turned to the devil and was put down with God's help. Hope that sounds a little less arrogant to you
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
ok fine ... kill them right there ...I am ok with that... like each and every accomplice of ajmal qasab was killed right there and then....
did anyone say why indains killed them? did anyone raise issue of human rights? of course not..... do u remember that or do you have selective memory?
and logical question is why didn't your police or army kill ajmal kasab right there in middle of the fight? why not? even when they captured him alive, they could have killed him ..... game finished.... why didn't they do it? do you have an answer?
and if they decided not to kill him and try him in Court .... well then onus is on indian sarkar to play by rules...same applies to afzal guru case....simple as that...
so dont ply games here...and try to portray as if those who are crying for human rights are actually supporting terrorists.
do you see how bizarre your argument is? you are ok with shooting these vermin down on sight but somehow object to hanging him after he has beed tried and sentenced and exhausted all appeals!
No I am not suggesting you are a supporter of terrorism at all. My objection is when you expect perfection in process. In our poor corrupt and underdeveloped societies, is that even possible? How many more years and billions need be spent on this? Is that the best use?
By the way, kasab's co-terrorists were shot when they were still on attack mode either shooting people or holed up in the hotel room with hostages (while being on cell phone with the ISI officer I will add). Kasab got caught in open area and was almost lynched to death by a mob - his life was saved at that time by a constable (don't think army) who stopped the lynching. That is what police do. That is what they are supposed to do. What is your objection to that?
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
^ The fact remains that none of the five actually involved in the attack have been punished. This case does not seem to have fulfilled the criteria of justice.
The judges have carried out the verdict on the basis of their preconceived notions.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
^ what do you mean? of the 5 attackers one burst his suicide vest and the other 4 shot.
What preconceived notions? Wikipedia has a goo account (very summarized though) of the attack, the trial, the appeals and the decision. Read that before accusing of injustice
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi’s Tihar jail
There are several gaps in the investigations and Guru’s guilt is based primarily on the police version of the story, which has been taken on its face value or his (Guru’s) confessional statement before media, selectively picked up and unquestioned by the court with his later statement not even treated permissible. The verdict itself is dictated more by the zeal to “to satisfy the collective conscience of the society” as observed by the judge rather than the lack of evidence. The judge interestingly also acquitted him of charges under POTA and observed that he did not belong to any terrorist organisation. The verdict says, ““The conviction under section 3 (5) of POTA is also set aside because there is no evidence that he is a member of a terrorist organisation, once the confessional statement is excluded.”
A news channel, earlier this week, began a debate about whether Hindutva terror was a reality or a myth, interestingly on the day after Narendra Modi visited the Delhi University amid heavy security, employed to brutally thwart all protests against him, a part of the story hidden from media glare. All it ended up doing was betraying the corporate-media nexus in backing the latest hero and brand name of the Sangh Parivar, with its conclusion that cases of those indicted in Mecca, Nanded, Samjhauta and Malegaon blasts were weak and there couldn’t be much headway because the evidence wasn’t concrete. There was only circumstantial evidence against Guru and his confession only pertained to the logistical support he offered to perpetrators of the crime without any knowledge of the exact designs.** In striking contrast, Aseemanand indicted in Mecca blast, has confessed to having been part of the entire conspiracy and planning. But his confession is treated as weak. **What more can one say of the bias of the legal justice system of a country that boasts to have a grand functional democracy. The 18th century Swiss mathematician and physicist, Leonhard Euler, said, “I have come from a country where people are hanged if they talk.” The State has proved the quote true, atleast, perhaps selectively for Kashmiris, in India. Guru, who was sentenced to satisfy the national conscience, we are now told, was hanged at the altar of electoral politics. And the concern thereafter is not whether or not this was mis-carriage of justice but of how post execution, law and order machinery can be handled in Kashmir, where every curfewed heart goes into mourning.
Re: Afzal Guru hanged in Delhi's Tihar jail
^ what has this to do with my question?
BTW Pakistanis are probably the least qualified people to pass judgement about quality of democracy, judicial systems etc.