pakistanis trivialise the whole alchohol thing . go in to the minute
details what subsatnces contain alchohol but forgetting drugs
are major problem in pakistan.
Pakistan has one of the highest opiate addiction rates: UN
Salaam, thanks for replying people :k:
rviks tum kahaan se aa gaey? y do u kafirz like to stick your noses into everything? we’re not discussing Pakistani army officers or drug problems in Pakistan, you could have opened another thread for that. I asked a simple question, which I thought some Muslim would beable to answer.
maan na maan mein tera mehmaan idiot :rolleyes:
not drinking alcohol is good for every human being regardless of religen.
Afia, your source or reference that you provided is just someone elses opinions, again not backed by any Quranic references. Opinions are not facts.
again i will say .......its ur own choice to go with watever u like ......i'm not imposing
but i feel like explaining a bit .......you n i dont posess sufficient knowledge in all fields of life .....
we all p;refer opinions of experts i n every fields of life .......for our diseases we need a doctor to help us ......for planning our house we prefer to talk to a qualified architect n so on .......just like that we need to have an opinion in religious matters too .......n for that experts r those who spend their lifetime in understanding our religion
for Allah Almighty it was no problem to give each of us a copy of His holy book ......but being The Most Merciful .......He sent His messenger too , to explain everything to us ......thats why in opinion of all rightly guided schollars.....Quran n Hadith r inseperable when it comes to act like a Muslim .......like u see Quraan tells us so many times to say prayers.....but not a single time it tells how ....??
its easy for us to pass comments on any schollar......but believe me we know nothing as compared with them
for me its ok.....i know i will be held responsible only for my own deeds but i dare to ask u just one thing ....
what r we gonna lose if we dont use these things ......??
but ever wondered wat will happen to us if a single schollar is right when he says these thin gs r not permissible....??
sorry i don't intend any offence .....n i know its a bit off topic ......but still i wonder why we r not willing to leave those things about which we r doubtful .......essence of our religion n focus of our attention should be "how we can get even closer to sunnah" but unfortunately we tend to find more n more loop holes to slip through
again i say its just me .....n may be i'm wrong
sorry if i disturbed u .......!!!
good point. the following is only my opinion, no harm meant.
the reason i don’t do this is because it is not permissable to make halal things haraam and vice versa. Not figuring things out and deciding yourself is sort of a cop out (honestly, no offense). It is certainly fine to follow a trusted math-hab but even the famous scholars (Maliki, Hanafi, Shafii, etc) warned us that they might not be right, and if they are wrong they tell us not to follow them. Allah has blessed us with intellect and we should use it to make these kind of decisions instead of always taking the ‘conservative’ route to be ‘safe’. That really is the most unsafe route because we give up the responsibility of making a decision and in a way we’re dumping it on someone else. Allahu alim
:halo:
u have a point ..........but as it is a hadith (i dont remember the exact words) that leave the things which r doubtful ......so my point was just based on that
n now i'm really gonna be off topic so .......i say leave it .....its just me perhaps :)
Allah's Apostle said, "If anyone of you feels drowsy while praying he should go to bed (sleep) till his slumber is over because in praying while drowsy one does not know whether one is asking for forgiveness or for a bad thing for oneself." (Bukhari hadith 1.211)
So basically anything that makes you drowsy or intoxicated is not permitted while you're offering prayers. If those products make you feel drowsy then you shouldn't use them while praying because of the above reasons. I doubt that they do so there's no harm in using them. :-)
ps.
I know this hadith is not about alcohol but I think there's a point that should be noted!
just found it …hope it helps
here is the source
More on Synthetic Alcohols
Posted: 18 Safar 1424, 20 April 2003
I wish to explain the nature of a synthetic alcohol. As the name suggests it has not been extracted from the fruits such as grapes, dates etc. but is synthesised chemically.
Cetyl alcohol is a long chain alcohol which is solid hence obviously not drinkabale nor does it cause intoxication if at all ingested. Therefore, it is halal to use in cosmetic products. It is also not absorbed through the skin when applied as a cream.
However, Synthetic Ethyl Alcohol, which is a short chain alcohol (C2H5OH) and is a liquid, is not halal. Because it causes intoxication when ingested. As the Ulema say anything that causes intoxication even in a very small quantity will therefore be haram.
Fruits such as dates and grapes when they are putrified, produce Ethyl Alcohol which is the intoxicating agent and that is why it makes Khamr a haram drink.
Ethyl Alcohol is also used in many cosmetic agents both for men (Aftershave Lotion) and for female perfumes. Ethyl Alcohol is absorbed through the skin. It then passes through the flesh into the blood vessels and finally mixes with the blood and circulates throughout the body. Once in the blood it is as good as if one has ingested through the mouth. As a small quantity of any intoxicant is haram therefore, as mentioned earlier, all liquid cosmetic products containing Ethyl Alcohol are prohibited. Other names given to synthetic Ethyl Alcohol are, Ethanol, Methylated Spirits (contains 5 percent Methyl Alcohol and 95 percent Ethyl Alcohol). Products containing these ingredients therefore will also be prohibited.
I was Research and Development Manager/Senior Scientist working for reputable pharmaceutical companies (Searle, Wyeth, Roche, Aventis) in Britain for 33 years until my recent retirement. I have developed many medicinal products of which a number of them have worldwide patents. I have thoroughly studied ingredients and worked on many liquid products to avoid using Synthetic Ethyl Alcohol as a dissolving medium so that our Muslim brothers/sisters may be able to use them without any concern. At the same time I am Alhamdu-Lillah a practising Muslim living in London.
I thought it will be beneficial to send this Email message through Albalagh Newsletter for many of my Muslim brother/sisters to understand the position of Synthetic Ethyl Alcohol.
Jazakomulla Khairan
does it matter? do you get intoxicated by putting it on ur face?
if you do .. then certainly you cant even wear it when even not in namaz.
a question...
lets say alcohal is nijiss.. which is (by far not confirmed) and is pure alcohal ( which is not , infact belongs fo methyl family) is used..
dosnt it evaporates within seconds of use and only the frangerence is left . so what in this scenerio..???
BTW i beleive its better not to use something in which there is suspecian and confusion. abstainance is the best policy...
ofocurse one will not die , without using perfumes and fragerneces with alcohal..
peace
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Afia: *
"I have developed many medicinal products of which a number of them have worldwide patents. I have thoroughly studied ingredients and worked on many liquid products to avoid using Synthetic Ethyl Alcohol as a dissolving medium so that our Muslim brothers/sisters may be able to use them without any concern.
I thought it will be beneficial to send this Email message through Albalagh Newsletter for many of my Muslim brother/sisters to understand the position of Synthetic Ethyl Alcohol."
[/QUOTE]
It's not good to be suspicious, but one does wonder about certain peoples intentions. Allahu Alam.
The fact is, everyone will have a different view on this, from my imam to yours, but I will present what I have read. Insha'Allah.
Here it is: It may not clear the issue, but its food for thought. smile
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 424:
Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Abbas:
Once Allah's Apostle passed by a dead sheep and said to the people, "Wouldn't you benefit by its skin?" The people replied that it was dead. The Prophet said, "But its eating only is illegal."
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 449:
Narrated 'Aisha: When the verses of Surat "Al-Baqara"' about the usury Riba were revealed, the Prophet went to the mosque and recited them in front of the people and then banned the trade of alcohol.
Volume 8, Book 81, Number 771:
Narrated 'Umar bin Al-Khattab: During the lifetime of the Prophet there was a man called 'Abdullah whose nickname was Donkey, and he used to make Allah's Apostle laugh. The Prophet lashed him because of drinking (alcohol). And one-day he was brought to the Prophet on the same charge and was lashed. On that, a man among the people said, "O Allah, curse him ! How frequently he has been brought (to the Prophet on such a charge)!" The Prophet said, "Do not curse him, for by Allah, I know for he loves Allah and His Apostle." [Note: This by no means is a license to do as one pleases regarding the consumption of alcohol, it is still prohibited in Islam.]
Volume 3, Book 34, Number 438:
Narrated Jabir bin 'Abdullah:
I heard Allah's Apostle, in the year of the Conquest of Mecca, saying, "Allah and His Apostle made illegal the trade of alcohol, dead animals, pigs and idols." The people asked, "O Allah's Apostle! What about the fat of dead animals, for it was used for greasing the boats and the hides; and people use it for lights?" He said, "No, it is illegal."
Question: What are the properties of vinegar?
Alchohol or (Al-kaahil in Arabic) was invented by Muslim scientists back in our golden era in which they built up the foundation of the Organic Chemistry...i.e. carbon+hydrogen+oxygen
In one of those chemicals that Muslims discovered/invented was Al-kaahil (laziness). It was named due to its dizzy nature. They found it exteremely useful in surgery and many other medical remedies. Till that time there is no report of misusing of this chemical. When the advancements in chemistry and trignomentry reached Europe via Muslim Spanish Universities, the European also further researched on everything unleashed by Muslim scientist. Now since this chemical has nature of causing drowziness the wine-lovers used it in all kinds of heavy drinks as a catalyst.
So it is the use of the chemical which is bad, not the chemical itself. Perfume, aftershaves are all OK to use even when offering Salaah. Think of Petroleum which is also from the same family of chemicals....i.e. hydrocarbon....would you read salaat if petrol is split on your clothes? ** It hink the fatwas (or rather general missconception in Muslim community) in last century regarding Alchohol being prohibited (haram/najis/makrooh/not encouraged whatever) was because of ignorance, and the use of the term 'Alchohol' for all kinds of heavy drinks.**
wallaho alam bissawab
Whatever happens at the end of this discussion I would say is that applying alcohol mixed perfumes is not wrong. Lets bring out arabeeyas point which she quoted from Sahih al Bukhari - I guess our religion is very simple & easy 2 follow, the only problem is 2 understand it. I've been an avid lover of parfums, & don't ask me how many parfums, I love - both gents & ladies. Be4 Friday prayers, I apply Attar, bought only from Dubai, & spray eternity or lanvin....I've alwayz defended myself in front of every maulana. They tell me it is haram 2 apply those parfums, & I promptly reply, that I don't drink, & I'm not "under the influence" while praying so y should it be haram.
Here is a small description of the types of parfums...
0-8% alcoholic content - Known as cologne, it has the lightest concentration of all parfums
10-12% - Known as eau de cologne, is the medium range.
12-18% - Known as eau de parfum & is the common type of parfum sold everywhere
18% - The super concentrated & only 2 types that duty free sells - Max alexander mcQueen(I hope I got da name right), & I'm not sure bout da 2nd name. Its also quite Xpensive.
As far as canned food is concerned, let me point this out very clearly to all of u western & eastern pakis - they all have alcohol mixed in them & it depends on the quantity - usually between 0.1-0.5%.... Alcohol is added 2 preserve the food, alcohol is also used in medical goods, & drugs, as 1 guppie earlier pointed out. Now all of these would be "haram" wont they....!
There is an energy drink available in dubai known as red bull....It has 0.5% alcohol, & this indian non muslim hit his car after having 5 cans of red bull. He was tested & they found alcohol in his breath....This case happened in Sharjah, & the non muslim pleaded non guilty, & he repeatedly said he only had 5 cans of red bull. Later the cans were sent 2 sharjah health labs 4 inspection, & they found that it had 0.5% alcohol. That person was later acquitted. Sharjah has Shariah law, & it strictly observes them. Red bull was asked 2 remove the cans of the shelves of every market, but then later given an Xemption, becoz they were right. Red bull is mainly used by alcoholics, 2 boost their metabolism while they have alchoholic drinks.
I've worked in this liquor business 4 2&1/2 months, & later left it after I found out that it is haram 2 serve or even present alcoholic drinks 2 any1. Beer usually has 5% alchohol, & this is a different form of alcohol. If u have pure alcohol, u wont be able 2 have a sniff @ it. Pure alchohol kills, it is like acid - chemists in this forum would know better.
Parfum is not haram, & it is not illegal....every1 has their opinions. Islam means "guidance" & "light".....Their r alwayz 2 aspects 2 light - the source & da rays....now if u were an Aalim, u would know better, but Islam also provides a logical Xplanation - I've provided a logical Xplanation, on the contents of parfums.
I still drink red bull & shandy bass - both have 0.5% alcohol in them, & they r sold in sharjah & pakistan. Sharjah has strict laws on alcohol, & ppl think 2ice be4 entering sharjah with alcohol.
I'm all ears 2 criticism, but let me point out 1 more thing - I don't drink alcoholic drinks....which come under da category of "Sharab" or "Jam"....!
Any further queries regarding parfums - feel free 2 ask, oh & da spelling is right, dont correct me.
all i can say is .........i'm sorry.......i'm really really sorry
sigh
Afia, no need to feel sorry. Debates would be pointless if everyone held the same views :)
I forgot to post what I do with regard to the original post. The scholar who I follow on this subject ruled that you can't pray whilst the alcohol is still on you, i.e immediately after you spray/rub it on.
He said that of you wait for a couple of minutes for all the alcohol to evaporate, so that none of the intoxicating substance is still on you, and then pray, you're ok.
So if I put on aftershave, then I normally wait about 5 minutes until my skin is dry before praying.
What kind of a mentality do you have? We are discussing alcohol here. You have to bring Pakistan in every issue? May Allah guide you!
I have read several opinions on this topic. (I apologize I did not read all the responses on this thread). My understanding is that anything which intoxicates is considered "najis". Without going into semantics on whether "najis" means "impure" or something else, point being personally we should stay away from "najis" things.
Alcoholic drinks can cause intoxication. It is for this reason, to drink even a small quantity is considered "najis". Similarly marijuana can also cause intoxication, so it is also "najis".
However, I have not seen anyone getting intoxicated by wearing a perume or an aftershave containing alcohol. So I would have thought, its only drinking of alcohol which is prohibited. And applying it on clothes or skin, where it is in such a form that it will not cause any intoxication or will cause someone to loose his or her senses, should be ok.
But then we come to the last point, that if we say that alcohol, by definition is "najis", then even applying it on your clothes will make them "najis" as well. True? But alcohol is used for many purposes, including cleaning the wounds of injured. So, will it be right to say that one can not pray when he has a wound which is washed with alcohol and bandaged?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT: *
Afia, no need to feel sorry. Debates would be pointless if everyone held the same views :)
I forgot to post what I do with regard to the original post. The scholar who I follow on this subject ruled that you can't pray whilst the alcohol is still on you, i.e immediately after you spray/rub it on.
He said that of you wait for a couple of minutes for all the alcohol to evaporate, so that none of the intoxicating substance is still on you, and then pray, you're ok.
So if I put on aftershave, then I normally wait about 5 minutes until my skin is dry before praying.
[/QUOTE]
mad_scientist......thanks u checked in here again ......as i'm really confused now
can u please tell me about this cetyl n ethyl alcohol ......as u can see i posted some info on someone else's behalf ......which suggests that ethyl alcohol is actually absorbed in our skin n is finally entered in our blood stream.... !!!
is it true or just a myth .......when i read that info i believed in it .....but now i'm double minded .....n to reach a solid conclusion i need ur help as u have some degree in chemistry (hope i 'm right ....)
so please clear it up here
i'll be really thankful
Afia,
I’ll start with the cetyl & ethyl alcohol issue.
Basically, the English term “alcohol” applies to a very large family of chemicals. The two that can intoxicate are ethyl alcohol (ethanol) and methyl alcohol (methanol). All other alcohols are incapable of intoxicating a human being. Methanol is also extremely poisonous and thus is normally only consumed by those too poor to afford ethanol. Ethanol is the alcohol that is found in beers, wines, and other “alcholic” drinks.
I’ve poured 97% pure ethanol on my hand (it’s a common laboratory demonstration), and it all evaporatates within a matter of seconds. Exposure of ethanol to healthy skin in any amount is not known to lead to intoxication. Whilst trace amounts may soak through the skin, there is no way that, if you have healthy skin, you could possible get anywhere close to intoxicated on it.
Having said that, some internet research reveals that in 1991, a 1 – month old infant became intoxicated as a result of absorption of ethyl alcohol from dressings applied to the stump of the umbilical cord and the skin adjacent to it. In a 1-month old baby, however, I very much doubt that skin would have developed to the thickness found in adults. In addition, bear in mind that the ethanol was on the inside of the dressing, so it could not evaporate into the air. It was pressed against the baby’s delicate skin for a prolonged period of time, and therefore eventually got absorbed. Later experiments confirmed that it is possible for some ethanol to penetrate as far as 3cm below the skin, depending on how much ethanol the skin was exposed to.
The guy who you had quoted had mentioned that
The flaw with his argument is that most fruits, such as apples and tangerines, contain small quantities of ethanol, and yet are not considered haraam. When you eat an apple, you are taking small amounts of ethanol into your body. But no matter how many apples you have, you will never have enough to intoxicate you.
Similarly with ethanol based cosmetics, as long as they are being applied to the outside of the body, to healthy skin, you can’t get intoxicated.
The tricky issue is then the scholarly debate over whether Allah has banned a particular substance (i.e ethanol), or whether the ban is on the use of intoxicants. Clearly, apples and some cosmetics contain ethanol, but are not intoxicants. No amount of apples or cosmetics will lead to intoxication.
I’m not a person knowledgeable enough to make up my own opinion on this, but I’ll quote a scholar talking on a similar point.
http://www.ourdialogue.com/a11.htm#2
The topic isn’t exactly the same as this thread - but the conclusions are relevant. Even though something may contain alcohol, if it is impossible to become intoxicated on it, it isn’t haraam.
An example to clarify this scholar’s point is that Whiskey and Pepsi-Cola both contain ethanol.
A large amount of Whiskey will intoxicate. It is thus al-khamr, and thus haraam. According the the Hadith, therefore, a small amount of whiskey is also haraam.
A large amount of Pepsi-Cola will not intoxicate. It is therefore not al-khamr, and therefore small amounts of Pepsi-Cola are also allowed.
What I’ve referred to here is just one scholar’s views. It’s best if you maybe ask around and get other points of views too.
My post a little confused - I’ve taken a while to write it, and forgot what I said at the start. but I hope that it helps.