some quotes first:
******* And among His Signs is the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the variations in your languages and your colours: verily in that are Signs for those who know {XXX.22}
******* Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabians,- any who believe in God and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve {II.62}
******* O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you {XLIX.13}
******* All men are equal in Islam, the Arab has no superiority over the non-Arab, nor does the non-Arab have superiority over the Arab, save in the fear of God ~ Prophet Muhammed, peace and Blessings be upon him.
It’s pretty clear that, according to Islam, racism can occupy no place in our hearts. Everyone is equal infront of Allah except by how much they fear God and have piety.
Perhaps my experiences have been very different than others and I hope I am wrong, but - based upon MY personal experiences - why is it that the majority of Pakistanis (NOT all, of course) are racist towards African-Canadians/Americans? This is something I have noticed amongst desis in general and amongst some Arabs as well.
I stopped counting years ago the number of times I had been told that it was alright to marry a Muslim Caucasian but never a Muslim African-Canadian; when I first moved to Canada my family and I lived in a small province and were part of a small, tight-knit Muslim community. I have no words to describe the racism in that community against African-Canadians (although you would more often hear complaints of how racist ‘gorays’ are). Sorry, but what is up with this attitude? When Islam has no place for racism, why do we allow these feelings to assume such importance in our lives? I am Blessed to know a few wonderful Muslim African-Canadians; they are truly more God-fearing than most individuals I have met. Why does the colour of someone’s skin matter so much to our opinions of them, when we ourselves bitterly complain of racism from Caucasians?
Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother ~ Khalil Gibran
It can't be easy to overcome years of mental subjugation and complex inherited from White-Man domination. Couple that with ignorance and it becomes impossible to even think straight. An indication of a very insecure and troubled psyche.
Hopefully the future isn't so bleak as we learn to stop demonising others and recognise our neighbours as humans.
To some extend I have seen the same attitude, those who complain most about racism against them are racist to others themselves, in this case the African-Canadian
muslims. I think this is because those people are not tought from their parents or from lack of school education to be tolerant to others regardless of race or color.
Interesting to see that you used the word Caucasians for Canadian, what does it mean and where does it come from?
[This message has been edited by SADI (edited May 24, 2002).]
Good one Nadia. I feel the same way. Not only is some racism against the people of African decent, but also against whites (Caucasian).
Sadi.. Caucasian is people of the Caucuses. Which covers most of the White Europeans. However, not all whites are Caucasians, but all Caucasians are considered White.
It can't be easy to overcome years of mental subjugation and complex inherited from White-Man domination. Khairun Nisa, hmm that's an interesting point.
Is our dislike and fear of Africans related to mentalities from the British Raj? What will it take for us to change ourselves? I have seen amongst desis that those who are darker in skin colour than others are considered less 'fortunate' than those less dark; especially during rishta time, one of the top three "qualities" the guy's family looks for (generally speaking) is how gora-ified is the girl's skin colour. If it's a hangover from the colonial times, then it is even more shameful because we are the experts who should know how it feels to be treated based upon skin colour.
I think this is because those people are not tought from their parents or from lack of school education to be tolerant to others regardless of race or color. **
**Sadi, I agree. While I truly love and respect my family, one of the things that some of us do not see eye-to-eye with is with this issue. Perhaps it is because some of them were raised in very different social circumstances than myself; perhaps they had never even seen an African person face-to-face until they were in their late teens. I think if I had stayed in the same country where I was born, I would most likely also have a fear of Africans, social acculturation perhaps. You pick up what society teaches you, sadly enough.
Interesting to see that you used the word Caucasians for Canadian, what does it mean and where does it come from?
Oops I'm sorry! By the word 'Caucasian' I mean anyone who is 'gora' (both Canadians and Americans); although here the word 'white' is also used in the same way that 'black' is used, sometimes I don't feel comfortable using those words. I THINK the word derives from the Caucasus mountains in northern Russia, from where many Cossacks and others migrated southwards. (Interestingly enuf many of them were Muslims at that time).
Doubt is a pain too lonely to know that faith is his twin brother ~ Khalil Gibran
Qrius, years ago when my family first arrived in Canada (it was literally our first day in the country) we were at some immigration centre in Toronto and in the midst of trying to get all our papers and Pakistani passports processed (we're a large family Masha'Allah so there were quite a few documents for each individual), one of the important papers slipped out of its folder and fell. No one in my family realized this and we kept walking ahead - an African-Canadian guy ran after us and saying, "Excuse me you dropped this," he handed it back to us with a smile and turned away before we could even mutter thanks. I use incidences such as this to remind my family that you can't judge everyone by the colour of their skin; it seems to work with some of my relatives because it is a very personal example of how African-Canadians too are just humans afterall like the rest of us, not thieves or bums as the popular images seem to be.
I think it will slowly come with more positive interactions. People usually tend to fear something they are not familiar with - just like some ppl fear Muslims perhaps because they don't really know any Muslim upclose. Insha'Allah, with time and understanding, my relatives will realize how wrong it is to be racist but I think it will take a great deal of time and understanding.
Nadia, I was about to open a similar thread, actually have been thinking about it for quiet some time. :) Thank you!
There is a considerable racism against the black community among the Desis (of course not all), and its pretty blatant.
For example, at my university most International (Desi) students do Pizza delivery. And they have a special attitude towards the African Americans. Their reasoning is that the blacks never give good tips (if any), they are rude when you are at their door, and whenever (the few) were robbed, it was a black man. Humm ... does it give 'em the right to categorize the whole ethnic group because of the limited experience that they had delivering Pizzas? I don't think so.
One of my desi co-worker would not go to a movie where an African American is playing the lead. Pure hatred.
A little while back I was looking into buying a house, and my desi friends specifically notified me not to buy it in a predominantly black neighborhood.
I have felt while standing in the line at Wal-Mart, most desi prefer a white/Hispanic cashier than to go check out from a black one. When asked they say, from their experience black cashiers are slow.
I know one or two cases where a desi married a black woman/man, though I have numerous friends who have married Caucasian.
My own confession ... I do not have any black friends, yes a few acquaintances at work but none other that I hang around with.
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 24, 2002).]
My ignorance... how come not all whites are Caucasians?<<<
You are right Nadia (and that’s how I also look at it)..but in the US, the way census data is compiled some non-Caucasians are classified as whites, the example of those is Gulf Arabs (yeah, they are considered whites in the USA) and people of Yemen. Only the Middle Eastern Arabs are Caucasians (Lebanese, Syrians, etc.), but not the Saudis, or the Kuwaitis.
Being Caucasian means (as I understand it) more to do with genome than with ethnicity. It is a very broad (in fact too broad) term. E.g., the Askhanizis Jews do not consider Sophards as Caucasians. There were some theories floating around that Tamils are also Caucasians.
reading this thread about racism in Canada. I believe everyone is created equal as you do, BUT we are now living in a different society to the one, which the Holy prophet (pbuh) lived. There are 100’s of different cultures, nationality’s, and languages; when we talk about our community we are MUSLIMS first before anything else, than we are Pakistani’s, which means RESPECTING our cultural roots and our family’s. Agree there are those who have racist attitudes to others unfortunately that is a sad aspect of our society. An example would be in South Africa, if you looked at it from a black South African’s point of view, his cultural upbringing would tell him to despise the white man for the mistakes made by their ancestors (slavery and apartheid) and the Asians who are accused of profiteering from the situation. This is certainly the situation within many areas of South Africa. The Blacks have become VERY racist to the Indian community in recent times. So Racism is everywhere, you cant just BLAME desi’s for thinking the way they do. In your community you talk about black African Muslims, yes they are Muslims first, but than their cultural roots maybe a mixture of Afro-Caribbean and Canadian culture, which means they have their own unique identity as do the Indians. Even amongst the Black community you will have RACISM against white people and against Asians. Again it is very much linked to which society we are brought up in.
Perhaps economic prosperity and improvements to social development schemes will play a pivotal role in improving race relations between the different community’s but these may take many years to be established. This reminds me of the race riots that have occurred in Britain over the years and the Official reports which placed much of the blame on the social deprivation within those areas.
[This message has been edited by Dil he Pakistani (edited May 24, 2002).]
NYA and Nadia, thanks for explaing the word Caucasians. Think the best we can do against this racist attitude is show our own dislikeness to the person or people who are performing racistic remarks, even if that person is a family member. By staying quiet or saying nothing we are indirectly agreeing with his/her attitude and encouraging him/her to commit even more.
The Hindu in all of us wants to like people with fairer skins. You see it all the time in Pakistan where people run after fair skinned people as if they are the son of god.
I won’t make absolute generalizations about any group but I believe that a fear and hatred of blacks does exist among some (not all, of course) Pakistanis. Ahmadjee’s post raises some common images of blacks that I too have encountered amongst desis in my circle - blacks are cheap; rude; thieves; trouble makers (NEVER buy houses in predominantly black neighborhoods is something my family had drilled into our consciousness by 90% of ‘well meaning’ Pakistanis since we moved to Canada); stupid/slow, and I’m sure we can all easily add to this list.
Dil he Pakistani, seems that being racist against blacks is indeed a part of our Pakistani (or South Asian) mentality. If so, I want NO PART of being Pakistani.
This is all based upon my personal experiences - some Pakistani girls I know have married Muslim African Canadians and it has become the everlasting gossip of the community: “Uff sunna! BlahBlah ki beti nai to uss kaloo sai shaadi ki. Pura khandaan ka to naak kat gia. Issi liyay to kehtay hain kai jab koi acha rishta aata hai, na shukar nahi hona chahyay. Toba toba.”
This, to me, is the absolute supreme height of ignorance. Who needs the Klu Klux Klan when you have some (not all) Pakistanis who are this dreadfully racist.
Insha’Allah, with wisdom and increased experiences of positive cross-cultural contacts, this sort of stupidity and ignorance will see the end of day amongst Pakistanis.
I have to disagree. i think there are some solid reason as to why people have become racist towards black people. Ofcourse i wouldn't generalize about specifc person becuz not everyone is same. I was born in Nigeria and lived there for 8 years but never i had any problem and concerned with any black person. Most of my best friends were Afican black i grew up with them...and those people were the most polite and sweetest and neive people i have ever been with. I would even prefer making friends with Africans than Pakistanis.
When i came to Canada i just had that image in my mind of those people but it turn out to be shoking for me when i get to interact with Jamaican people here. I always thaught i had this special bond with African people but its completely different story here. I have seen and experinced so many bad incidents with Canadian Africans(Jamicans) that i have to sometimes generalize them all. There had been many times that i tried to be nice and friendly and it turn out to be pretty ugly just no matter how much you try, it looks like they are born with that typical aggressive attitude. I might generalize all Jamaican people in that way for example living in same area as theirs becuz i am living in their area and everybody sees who does what, but i still would never generalize indivdual person before i know them well. Sorry I might sound racist but there are still some facts which are true and after being lived in Africa i happen to see them clearly
Jal Pari,
You yourself may speak about this better than most here as you were born in, and have lived in, Nigeria for eight years. I am sorry to hear that you have had negative experiences with African Canadians, but I doubt it is right to use that to believe Africans have that “typical aggressive attitude.” Based upon my experiences with Pakistani Canadians, I am always tempted to believe that we are the most gossiping, greedy, selfish, and narrow-minded people alive - but of course that is not accurate! You wrote that, There had been many times that i tried to be nice and friendly and it turn out to be pretty ugly… I would say the same thing about my experiences with some Pakistanis but I still tell myself not to generalize against any group of people, irregardless of how many negative experiences I have with them.
The most convincing arguments I have against my racist tendencies come from the Quran itself. Jamaican Canadians are no more unfriendly or aggressive than Pakistani Canadians - every one is unique and just as we don’t like gorays to be racist against us, so we shouldn’t mete out the same treatment to others.
I think in some respects growing up on your own does allow certain degree of free conscious, or I must say just having a clean slate when you first arrive. I had some reservations about black folks when I first came to the US. But, soon I found out that it's not the color which at times draw my tendency to seperate, only individuals. I have felt equally safe going to ghettos to shoot hoops OR walking in a mall. Maybe, that's extreme, but that's me. Although, when you are the only one amongst black, then be prepared to get racially mocked and being made fun of, whether they would try talking in thick Indian accent or some other joke they may pull off at you..but again that's the way of the street. At the end, you would pay back in the same coin, and laugh it away.
I am not sure where the prejudism comes from, perhaps it's the height of generalization and we tend to forget that we all have distinct characters and personalities, nevertheless, it's never personal until someone crosses the line and it's always an individual(s) and not the whole race.
Here is a shovel, can you dig it phool!
[This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited May 28, 2002).]
Some blacks themselves have a similar attitude as Abdullah pointed out. They are just like anybody else deep down. Try listening to some Gangsta rap and tell me that's not racist. Let's see, from the top of my head I can think of one song by Ice Cube called 'White Cave Bitch'. And yes, this guy went on to become a movie star in US of A!
Generally those people who are wary of blacks have had very little contact with them. Pakistanis on the whole are relatively well behaved, although that's not really true of the younger generation in the UK who have been brought up in the UK. It's the older generation who regard the blacks with suspicion.
On the flip side, what do you think about statistics which show that blacks are responsible for most crime? Paul Condon caused a stir here when he used that to justify stop and searches which concentrated on mainly blacks.
There's no doubt about racial divisions when it comes to black folks, and how they generalize until they get to know you. I used to laugh hysterically while listening to black guys talking amongst themselves, even when they conversed on something serious. Their crudeness in slang, accent and the way they address each other is just comical. At times, they would respond back by saying something like," whas w'ong with you nigga". It may sound deeply offensive, but when they use the same term to call each other, then it's really no big deal. Yeah, most of the time women are called as bitches, and whoe's- black, hispanic or white, except for their mamas. One thing I observed is that most black males are really close to their mothers for a simple reason that they are often raised by single mothers. I have seen many single black mamas working long hours just to feed their boys goodies such as biscuits, deep fried chicken and pancakes. But, that does not mean that mama can't bitch slap their boys even when they are grown ups.
Then there were also blacks I met in college who came from well-to-do families or on academic and sports scholarships. They were just like anyone else with dreams, aspirations and striving to be successful. As KN mentioned, the demons often exist in our own minds. As long as one is secure about his own values, then I don't think racial intolerance should become an issue.
Here is a shovel, can you dig it phool!
[This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited May 28, 2002).]