What's so funny to me is that half the Desis that discriminate against black people are DARKER than most black people! To me that represents ignorance. Are we Muslims or not? The way I see it is this- if you are Muslim I have love for you no matter your color. You are my brother or sister. If you want to look at my skin and hate me or think less of me because of it- then that is between you and Allah. You know nothing of my intelligence, piety, education, etc. you are just being ignorant. To me, when people are being racist they are displaying the same behavior as Iblis- being arrogrant because you feel you are better than someone else. As Muslims we should be the example for non-Muslims when it comes to cultures interacting. I would venture to say that we are the only religion that has people of all different colors and backgrounds worshipping together (even if it's only at Eid or certain masjids).
Also, what's funny to me is that Desis spend so much time kissing up to white people when most white people consider you inferior to them in the same way they consder black people. My sister-in-law is from India. The first racial slur they called her when she came here? Nigger. You do the math.... Anyway, as a person of mixed heritage (I am Indian and Black), I guess I have reconciled this problem long ago.
As for the person who spoke about Jamaicans, please do not lump us all together. Jamaica is a country with people of different colors, religions, lifestyles, and temperments.
[This message has been edited by PrettyDougla (edited May 29, 2002).]
[This message has been edited by PrettyDougla (edited May 29, 2002).]
Try listening to some Gangsta rap and tell me that’s not racist.
Xtreme, without doubt I think there is racism in ALL of us. I also used to feel, as Abdullah discussed, racism from SOME blacks - stereotyping all South Asians as Indians, followed with all the “India” cultural baggage picked up from The Simpsons. But the number of blacks whom I have met who treat me that way is faaaaaaaaar less than the the number of Pakistanis I have met in Canada who think along these lines - in kaalon nai to abhi tak kuch seekha hi nahin, kab tak apna jangli pana karain gai; SOME Pakistanis actually believe that blacks, whether you are African or African Canadian, are l-i-t-e-r-a-l-l-y uncivilized and just don’t have it in their genes to productively function in society as the rest of “us” do.
Stuff like the statistics “proving” that blacks are responsible for the majority of crimes is like cannon fodder for these desi folks. I have had it with this mentality and I am sick of it. In the US blacks are far more likely to be pulled over by a cop (which is where that expression comes from: “DWB” - driving while black).
I wholly agree with Abdullah that secureness of one’s own position/values is imperative; perhaps those Pakistanis who look down upon blacks do so out of some insecurity of how gorays look at them. In order to feel superior and convince themselves they are not at the bottom of the social pecking order, they’ve inculcated these irrational fears of blacks. I really don’t know.
PrettyDougla, “The way I see it is this- if you are Muslim I have love for you no matter your color. You are my brother or sister. If you want to look at my skin and hate me or think less of me because of it- then that is between you and Allah. You know nothing of my intelligence, piety, education, etc. you are just being ignorant. To me, when people are being racist they are displaying the same behavior as Iblis- being arrogrant because you feel you are better than someone else.”
Agreed. Never could have put it any better.
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Thank you.
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I agree with what you have said Nadia. Also, as Muslims, especially now, we should understand how stereotyping functions in this society. Just because some people believe that all Muslims are terrorists or are MORE LIKELY to be terrorists than non-Muslims, does that mean it's true? We all know that the actions of a few are not the reality for the entire population of Muslims all over the world. Similarly, just because SOME Black people do bad things doesn't mean that the ENTIRE population (around the globe) is the same.
If I thought that way then I would assume that all Pakistanis are racist because that has been my experience so far- even at the masjid. However, I know that there are good and bad in every group and I know that not everyone thinks the same way.
someone said here that all the blacks are uncivilised i wouldnt agree with that, but the fact remains that most of them if not all are like that... i here have encountered blacks and among them quite a lot of them have bad manners on ho to talk and behave, pplz dont take it as a biased view but its true for quite a few of them,...
reza khan, how could you make such sweeping generalizations? Have you met MOST of the black people in the world? You must realize that when you say "black people" you are referring to an entire group of people from different parts of the world- Canada, England, the Caribbean, the ENTIRE continent of Africa etc. It's amazing how people hold onto their colonial beliefs. It's amazing that a Muslim can speak from such ignorance. As I mentioned, people say most Muslims are terrorists or that Islam advocates violence but as we all know, the actions of a few do not speak for the majority of us. This is the same for Black people, Indian, Chinese, etc. Besides, when you already believe that people will behave in a certain fashion than that's all you will ever see since that is what you are looking for anyway.
What's funny is, I was present when a group of white people (Americans) were talking about how "backwards" Indian and Pakistani culture is. How Pakistanis are so violent that they kill innocent people in Pakistan, blowing up churches etc. They were basically saying how "uncivilized" Pakistanis are. However, I do not support ignorance so I spoke up and refused to sit there like a lump. (Which is Islamic). Moral of the story: while you make sweeping generalizations about a group, the same are being made about you.
sorry but i already mentioned that i dont believe in that notion that all black peeople are uncivilised as u read my early post, but surely the ones i have encounteed who are from africa and actually are university students here with their birth in a western society have shown me uncivilised manner. they talk to u like people would be afaid of them coz on tv they show them hard and gangster like, any slight difference in talk would lead them to say oh u dont know me i am from there and that... gesturing like a rapper..justvtrying to be hard... and yes i as a musliim dont believe that,,, i know black muslims as well, and they are not with disease of gangster impressed fake ideaology..
ps u refered whites... what actually is a white... u mean fair colored or u mean european dweller.???
[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited June 01, 2002).]
why don’t they just drop their gangsta routine, behaving in an “uncivilized” manner, trying to act all tough like a rapster - these are the perceptions that many (not all) of us have of blacks.
If a gora came up to a Pakistani and made comments regarding how Pakistanis talk or smell “funny”, how we are typically cheap, must be staying in a western country illegally, treat our women like slaves, or must be secretly plotting to blow up every federal building we see - we would classify this as racism. Whether it’s being dished out to us or we are treating others, it’s still racism. And it goes against everything Islam stands for. Look at Hajj - is there any distinction made during Hajj rites between blacks and non-blacks? When we offer prayers at mosques, we don’t form lines based upon colour, the darker ones standing at the back. The first person to call prayers from a mosque, the first Muezzin, was a black man.
I completely see where some of the above is coming from because it is in my family as well. I think EACH of us, to varying degrees, is racist. Sadly I know I am to some extent. Insha’Allah the more we learn about Islam the easier it will be for us to overthrow our racist tendencies. At least one hopes so.
Also, as Muslims, especially now, we should understand how stereotyping functions in this society. Just because some people believe that all Muslims are terrorists or are MORE LIKELY to be terrorists than non-Muslims, does that mean it’s true?
Exactly, PrettyDougla
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Thank you.
[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
someone said here that all the blacks are uncivilised i wouldnt agree with that, but the fact remains that most of them if not all are like that...
[/quote]
Sounds like you're saying that to me. Most if not all? Wow, it makes me wonder what special status Allah gave you to say such things. So what if a group of Africans you came into contact with behaved that way. We all behave in ways that are not necessarily the best. Are we not all human beings? Really, you need to stop being so closed minded. Nowhere is this acceptable in Quran or Sunnat. Allah judges people by their piety and the good works that they do.
[This message has been edited by PrettyDougla (edited June 01, 2002).]
Characteristic and manners are two different traits in a person,in my opinion. Goodness of heart does not mean that one has conform to the norms of society which many consider as acceptable and civilized. Hence, solely generalizing on the basis of blacks acting tough or as gangster does not mean that all of them are crack-heads and thieves. Yes, it's generalization, and we are all deceived by it at times, but the fact remains that we should strive to move beyond these barriers and accept people for who they are..
[This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited June 02, 2002).]
i dont intend to add to this thread. the posts are far more enlightening that whatever i could say. just that the mention about DWB “driving while black” reminded me of a scene from Men In Black 2 that i saw in a trailer..
Scene, a limo pulls up with an inflatable AI driver who happens to be a white guy
Tommy Lee Jones: “Does that come standard?” (pointing at the inflatable driver)
Will Smith: “Actually it came with a black dude but he kept getting pulled over”
hehe.. i wouldnt stop laughing for the next 10 minutes.
ironic how racism has become a topic of humour. Chris Rock on one of his shows said “if you dont want to get in trouble with the po-lice, dont ride with a black guy!”
heh, dont you just love dark humour?
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