Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
Anyone who thinks they are 100 percent right is usually somone who lacks the confidence in defending their convictions...
I have defended my convictions against many people. And I know I am right after countless debates on the issue with many and many people from palestinians, to israelis, jews, muslims, etc....
I dont thik im 100 percent correct, im open to discussion, but you arent giving me anything to work with.. Still dont understand why you are obsesivly backing Israel when we clearly have nothing to gain from them except a dirty conciounce.
Again, you mis-understand me. I am not totally behind Israel. I criticize them all the time. Its just that I give them a fair shake and since you are so far one side of the tangent that any fairness I show towards the Israelis comes off to you as blind support.
My view is this: I support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. The refugee problem started in 1948 when Arabs invaded Israel to destroy it which at that time was only on areas which had a Jewish majority. Arabs attacked Israel in 1967 and the rest of Palestine came under Israeli occupation. 70% of all Israelis want to make peace, give up West Bank, East Jerusalem for peace but constant attacks force Israel to elect hardliners who favor the military option against the Palestinians instead of the diplomatic. If Pakistan recognizes Israel, engages them diplomatically, they can provide a fresh alternative to the Arabs.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
I know Jews didnt all come from Israel, but most of the founders of zionist movement were of Europe and they were inspired by events that transpired in Europe, not in the Middle East.
Yes I agree. About 50% of Israelis came from Europe and the rest were already living in Palestine and others came when Arabs expelled over 1 million Jews from their countries in 1949
And im sure everyone would make peace with the ISRAELIS IF THE STOPPED ACTING LIKE SUCH A HOLES...
They want to make peace but under what framework will this happen? Will the Palestinians recognize Israel if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders? Hamas has pledged to destroy Israel and gets support from Israel's arch-enemy, Iran who also funds Hezbollah.
Go to bed with this understanding atleast, THAT PEOPLE WHO CRITISIZE ISRAEL ARE NOT AUTOMATICALLY ANTISEMITES...
That ain't news to be buddy. But unfortunately, many Muslims bring in Jewish stereotypes when critizing Israel which then becomes racist.
Thats like saying that if you critisize Pakistan, you are against Muslims...Its a ridiculous notion.
But if you criticize Pakistan by stereotyping its people, then its racist.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
Well, the process of trying to resettle Jews started as far back as the 1800's under the ottomans... But whether the Jews were living their or not doesnt justify anything. The Palestinians were there ages aswell... And if its a matter of who was there first, then we should remeber how the tribes of Israel went about cleansing the holy land of cananites way back when. Honestly, have you read the old testamnet? And then they say the Muslims are violent... I digress..
The real trigger was ofcourse the holocaust...
The Palestinians already recognize Israel, but Israels antagonism has lead to further hardening of the Palestinian people to te point where they now see no hope except through suicide and martyrdom... Hence the rise of Hamas and the fall of the secular FATA.
Many Christians ALSO bring antisemitism into the ring... On your part you shouldnt jump to the automatic conclusion that everyones antisemitic... The whole antisemitism defense is getting a little tired if you ask me.
Who here is stereotyping Jews? I critisized Israel... If I wanted to use Jewish stereotypes, I would have said something like the Jews should buy all the Palestinians out... :)
What im saying is that ISREAL the NATION, not Jews the people... Jews the people are actually descent folks...
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
I have defended my convictions against many people. And I know I am right after countless debates on the issue with many and many people from palestinians, to israelis, jews, muslims, etc....
Again, you mis-understand me. I am not totally behind Israel. I criticize them all the time. Its just that I give them a fair shake and since you are so far one side of the tangent that any fairness I show towards the Israelis comes off to you as blind support.
My view is this: I support Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state. The refugee problem started in 1948 when Arabs invaded Israel to destroy it which at that time was only on areas which had a Jewish majority. Arabs attacked Israel in 1967 and the rest of Palestine came under Israeli occupation. 70% of all Israelis want to make peace, give up West Bank, East Jerusalem for peace but constant attacks force Israel to elect hardliners who favor the military option against the Palestinians instead of the diplomatic. If Pakistan recognizes Israel, engages them diplomatically, they can provide a fresh alternative to the Arabs.
I think Israel has the earn the right to exist... The concept of there being a "Right" to exist is alien, it unheard of outside of the ISRAEL/PALESTINE issue. No country has a right to exist unless it earns its right... Even Pakistan, we had no right over Bagladesh the way we treated them, and hence we really had no right to exist in that form... And if we continue the way we are with the Baloch etc, we dont have right exist as a unfied federation either...
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
I think Israel has the earn the right to exist...
It already earned it by defeating arabs in 5 wars and Egypt and Jordan accepting it and the Arabs offering peace in return for Israeli withdrawl from occupied land.
The concept of there being a "Right" to exist is alien, it unheard of outside of the ISRAEL/PALESTINE issue. No country has a right to exist unless it earns its right...Even Pakistan, we had no right over Bagladesh the way we treated them, and hence we really had no right to exist in that form... And if we continue the way we are with the Baloch etc, we dont have right exist as a unfied federation either...
And how does a country earn its right?
You just quoted Bangladesh....It fought and won its independence. Similarly, Israel fought defeated 5 ARab armies and won its independence.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
You just quoted Bangladesh....It fought and won its independence. Similarly, Israel fought defeated 5 ARab armies and won its independence.
No comparison. Bangladeshis have had been living there for centuries, while Zionists came from Europe with the sole intention to occupy the land and call it Israel.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
And how does a country earn its right?
The right can not be earned by occupying land through eviction of original inhabitants.
People can accept that Israel exists, but to say that Israel has RIGHT to exist is similar to saying that Palestinians deserve evictions from their land, they deserve apartheid, and they deserve fascism imposed on them.
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Only if they criticize Israel on its Jewishness
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Jews are living even in Iran. People criticize Israel for its fascism and apartheid, or in other words, Zionism.
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I also have criticized Israel many times for not releasing Marwan Barghouti, to indiscriminate bombing of Lebanon, etc...
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I hope you consider these acts crimes against humanity.
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Dont label me as being brainwashed and swallowing Zionist propoganda if I dont agree with you
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Well, at least I don't consider you brainwashed. I consider you Zionist. Plain and simple.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
The right can not be earned by occupying land through eviction of original inhabitants.
People can accept that Israel exists, but to say that Israel has RIGHT to exist is similar to saying that Palestinians deserve evictions from their land, they deserve apartheid, and they deserve fascism imposed on them.
Jews are living even in Iran. People criticize Israel for its fascism and apartheid, or in other words, Zionism.
I hope you consider these acts crimes against humanity.
Well, at least I don't consider you brainwashed. I consider you Zionist. Plain and simple.
What year did first Aliyah start?
I would reply to this but I am just too tired of debating this issue any further
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
Ok, your post was rather condscending, but I have come to expect that from you…
As regards the EARLY jewish settlements… http://www.zionism-israel.com/dic/Aliyot.htm
Also this, although I dont like using Wikepedia, this one coroborates with the first site I cited…
This migration happened around 1880-1900’s. Mostly Jews from Eastern Europe and Yeman.
As for the choosen people, the point is, that Arabs have as much right to the land as the Jews seeing as how the Jews took the land by force.
Arabs of N Africa, same deal… Point that you never seem to get is that populations change constantly, but no group has sole right over any land, particularly when they take it by force.
Berbers FYI still make up the majority in N Africe, although their identity happens to be Arab… http://lexicorient.com/e.o/berbers.htm http://www.al-bab.com/arab/background/berber.htm
Hamas has only gained power due to the fact that the Palestinian people are disenchanted with other options.. Give them viable options and they will support them…
But I believe that most Palestinians have come to terms with it, if they havent accepted it, they tolerate it, which is more then enough.
Once again…
No one here is insulting jews.. BUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU, AND OTHER ISRAEL SUPPORTERS, assoicate crticsm of Israel with antisemitism.. This is to quel any opposition towards Israel.. Watch the clip I provided, and it will explain that.. HOW MANY TIME DO I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF!
You might not do it intentionaly, but you do fall into that category of people who automatically assume everyone critisizing Israel is an antisemite.
AND FINALLY, AND ONCE AGAIN… I DID NOT MENTION JEWS IN MY POST, YOU DID! I dont care about Jewish religion or Jewish people, thats not my concern! Im talking about Israel the state…
A STATE WE SHOULD NOT ACCPET!
Its very difficult to defend Israel, I dont see anything worth defending… Dont debate Israel, but please, do click on the links just for you own information…
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
It already earned it by defeating arabs in 5 wars and Egypt and Jordan accepting it and the Arabs offering peace in return for Israeli withdrawl from occupied land.
And how does a country earn its right?
You just quoted Bangladesh....It fought and won its independence. Similarly, Israel fought defeated 5 ARab armies and won its independence.
Might does not make right... A country earns the right to be tolerated if it defeats it enemies.. But its only a matter of time before someone comes back and beats them back again...
A county, I think, earns its place through social cohesion and justice. The litmus test is simple, does said country provide equal rights to all its citizens? Does it live in peace with its neighbors? Does it believe in fair play and justice for its neighbors and those within itself?
Israel fails, and even Pakistan fails to be quite honest.
Bagladesh had a LEGITIMATE right to seek independance... They were treated like crap.. They earned that right... They were the majority, they were treated like a minority.. They were piliged by their own Army! Thus their struggle and their ultimate independace is justified.
If Bangladesh starts behaving like Israel however, what right does it have?
Pakistan on the other hand, having behaved the way it did, forfeited it right to be a nation, it didnt hold its end of the bargain.
Israel fought and won.. But the way its conducted itself after and even before its founding, doesnt give it a right to claim some arbitrary concept as "RIGHT" TO EXIST.
It treats its own Arab citizens like garbage, its treat Palestinians like animals, and it manipulates the world into siding with it through whatever coersive means at its disposal... Thats not a country that earned its " RIGHT" to exist.
The only justification is that Yahweh gifted that land to Israeilites and its divine right... Unfortunately, im not very religous, so I dont buy that...
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
no to the Zionist State. No to those who murder innocent Mulims because their religion teaches them their souls are superior. No to those who secretly want to weaken the Muslim World and eventually rule over us.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
It's ironic how so many Pakistanis continue to criticize Israel and bend over for the Palestinians, yet they can't even let the stranded Urdu-speaking Bihari Muslims come back to Pakistan while being stuck in disgusting camps in Bangladesh to this day.
And, Muslims have murdered far more Muslims than Israel has, but apparently, most people on this forum seem to be too dumb to comprehend that, and instead bend over for Khaleeji Arabs to make Pakistan a carbon-copy of Saudi Arabia.
Re: Afghanistan to establish diplomatic relations with Israel
It's ironic how so many Pakistanis continue to criticize Israel and bend over for the Palestinians, yet they can't even let the stranded Urdu-speaking Bihari Muslims come back to Pakistan while being stuck in disgusting camps in Bangladesh to this day.
And, Muslims have murdered far more Muslims than Israel has, but apparently, most people on this forum seem to be too dumb to comprehend that, and instead bend over for Khaleeji Arabs to make Pakistan a carbon-copy of Saudi Arabia.
you are trying to talk logic to people who have been brainwashed from childhood into believing
