DAWN.COM | Front Page | New name for NWFP: ANP-PML-N row threatens to hit reforms
Though similar to the other thread, I wanted to discuss where Afghania is a valid name for NWFP. I am confused as how would this be a compromise?
Secondly wouldn’t Afghanistan complain? Also Afghan is not an ethnicity. Pashtoon is. So I am rather confused about the option of this name.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
Afghania means land of afghans
and
Pashtuns= ethnic afghans
its not confusing at all.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
Okay. You just confused me some more. We agree Afghan is not a race or ethnicity correct? But Pashtun is. So how can Pashtun be ethnic Afghans?
Re: Afghania as a compromise
I'd have pref either Khyber or Pashtunistan, but Afghania is ok too.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
^ Wouldn't "Pashtunistan" not ignore other minorities? Khyber looked like a good choice IMO.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
^^ I think Khyber should be the 5th province of Pakistan, area comprised of tribal belt, currently known as "Illaqa-Ghair"
Anyway to me, there is nothing in the name, ANP and others are trying make political scoring out of it... they are trying to make it look like an Achievement... there is lot more and real serious stuff waiting for the attention of ANP and other political parties, the province has suffered a lot from the WAR ON TERROR, They really need to develop the educational, health and industrial sector... but i guess they are lost in debate for choosing the name for which most of Pakhtuns even don't care... but ANP does as i think that they already knew that it would be difficult for them to provide with the much needed development, so lets indulge into something totally irrelevant....
The best way to change the name, get the people of the province decide through a referendum, give them few options and the best option wins.. end of debate... but i guess no one wants this issue to end...
Re: Afghania as a compromise
^ elections are the referendums you are speaking of. if it is a majority vote you're looking for its reflected in the ANP and the minorities will lose out.
whatever you think their priorities are they are elected representatives of the people of the province concerned. let them decide.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
^^ So then they should decide and not create fuss about it!!!
Re: Afghania as a compromise
i agree. this should never have been as protracted as it has become.
^^ I think Khyber should be the 5th province of Pakistan, area comprised of tribal belt, currently known as "Illaqa-Ghair"
True but in addition to that some local politics is also involved.FATA merging in NWFP and war on terror created tension between ANP and tribal people, so neither ANP like to name their province nor tribal will let them have there name....they must reserved this KHYBER name for their 5th province.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
Many of the non pashto speakers in NWFP call themselves "Afghan" by descent as per the land revenue records. It's where the A comes from in Pakistan... it made sense in it's day but the context of the term Afghan has changed, Afghan is now seen in the terms of a nation states citizens not ethnicity or grouping.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
^^ well said.
More over we should copy the successful nations in the world to get inspired to do hard work and be faithful to our country.
Based on this, the last thing anyone should do is to name their province after the basket case, gad-awful hell holes of the world.
Such as:
Yemenia, Somalinia, Sierra-Leonia, Liberiania, Chadnia, Sudania, zimbabvinia,
and last but not least ....
----- drum roll please
---- the one and only the most tribal, uncouth, under the gora boots for decades , here isssssssssssssssss Afghan inspired Aaaaaaaafghania.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
Lets not forget Germania, Englandia, Scotland etc. All with tribal histories, where their tribes in the past, being a saxon of a scot still has some value.
Okay. You just confused me some more. We agree Afghan is not a race or ethnicity correct? But Pashtun is. So how can Pashtun be ethnic Afghans?
Afghan is the name Persians have used for Pashtuns/Pakhtuns. Similar to as Pathan is the name Indians have used for Pashtuns/Pakhtuns.
These are all ethnic names.
None of these are neutral names. Khyber, Abaseen would be neutral.
One interesting fact is that in spite of the propaganda of ANP, most Punjabis that I have met support the name Pakhtoonkhawa as they are ignorant of the meaning of this name. Most Punjabis think if you live in Peshawar you are automatically a Pathan. They don't even know that in Kohat, DIK and Peshawar Hindko is spoken.
One should also look into the ethnic conflict in Afghanistan where a century ago the name Kingdom of Kabul, Kingdom of Balkh was changed to Kingdom of Afghanistan. About 50 years ago it gave rise to 'Afghan Millat' party which started claiming that Tajiks/Uzbeks/Hazarajats are immigrants to Afghanistan. While the fact is that Kabul and north of Kabul the areas were collectively known as Khorasan.
This is also happening in Pakistan where Wali Khan of ANP had declared that non-Pashto speakers in NWFP are immigrants while the Afghan Muhajireen are locals!!
We are not too far from being an Afghanistan.
...We are not too far from being an Afghanistan.
That is the fear, that we may become the gad awful hell hole aka Islamic Jannat Namoona of Afghanistan.
As long as we love the primitive tribalism in the name of Islam or in the name of our ethnicity, we'll remain standing a the edge of anarchic abyss.
Pakistani educated elite as a whole (and not just Pashtun elite) have been tribalized more and more in the last 30+ years.
Look at Karachi, and see how miserable we are just because we never got rid of the triable concept of Mohajirism.
That is the fear, that we may become the gad awful hell hole aka Islamic Jannat Namoona of Afghanistan.
As long as we love the primitive tribalism in the name of Islam or in the name of our ethnicity, we'll remain standing a the edge of anarchic abyss.
Pakistani educated elite as a whole (and not just Pashtun elite) have been tribalized more and more in the last 30+ years.
Look at Karachi, and see how miserable we are just because we never got rid of the triable concept of Mohajirism.
burqa, i dont agree with all u have to say, but i respect ur zeal and patriotism. ur so right!
Afghan is the name Persians have used for Pashtuns/Pakhtuns. Similar to as Pathan is the name Indians have used for Pashtuns/Pakhtuns.
These are all ethnic names.
None of these are neutral names. Khyber, Abaseen would be neutral.
One interesting fact is that in spite of the propaganda of ANP, most Punjabis that I have met support the name Pakhtoonkhawa as they are ignorant of the meaning of this name. Most Punjabis think if you live in Peshawar you are automatically a Pathan. They don't even know that in Kohat, DIK and Peshawar Hindko is spoken.
One should also look into the ethnic conflict in Afghanistan where a century ago the name Kingdom of Kabul, Kingdom of Balkh was changed to Kingdom of Afghanistan. About 50 years ago it gave rise to 'Afghan Millat' party which started claiming that Tajiks/Uzbeks/Hazarajats are immigrants to Afghanistan. While the fact is that Kabul and north of Kabul the areas were collectively known as Khorasan.
This is also happening in Pakistan where Wali Khan of ANP had declared that non-Pashto speakers in NWFP are immigrants while the Afghan Muhajireen are locals!!
We are not too far from being an Afghanistan.
Thank you. That explains the situation. So basically being Afghan is the same as being Pashtun. Yet a majority of the NWFP are not ethnically Pathan. So they do not feel that the name feds into their identity either.
Are these ethnically non-Pathan more towards the northern side of the NWFP or towards the south - near Balochistan and Punjab? Because if they are infact in the Norther corridor of NWFP, I see no problem in giving them a seperate status like Gilgit-Balistan and incorporating the FATA areas into the new Pakhtoonkhawa.
That is the fear, that we may become the gad awful hell hole aka Islamic Jannat Namoona of Afghanistan.
As long as we love the primitive tribalism in the name of Islam or in the name of our ethnicity, we'll remain standing a the edge of anarchic abyss.
Pakistani educated elite as a whole (and not just Pashtun elite) have been tribalized more and more in the last 30+ years.
Look at Karachi, and see how miserable we are just because we never got rid of the triable concept of Mohajirism.
why blame afghans for the ills of Pakistan or elsewhere?
Are the arabs who were in power in Afghanistan afghans?
are the arabs who spread wahabi with oil money afghans?
are the afghans responsible for the jihadi nuts all over Pakistan?
they may not be polished suaved well educated; may be they are primitive in many of their ways ...but you seem to attributing every ailment to their ethnicity?
why blame afghans for the ills of Pakistan or elsewhere?
Are the arabs who were in power in Afghanistan afghans? are the arabs who spread wahabi with oil money afghans? are the afghans responsible for the jihadi nuts all over Pakistan?
they may not be polished suaved well educated; may be they are primitive in many of their ways ...but you seem to attributing every ailment to their ethnicity?
Burqa did NOT blame the Afghans. He blamed everyone. The politics of name in Frontier is being used by a political party to rally support and gain votes in a constituency they regard as their base.
And if you had read my posts I also did not blame Afghans even for the name change in Afghanistan. The old rulers of Balkh, Kabul and Kandahar were prudent, wise and diplomatic enough not to use divisive names. They called themselves Rulers of Khorasan/Kabul/Balkh, even Amir-ul-Momenein.
The first time the term 'AfghanLand' was used for the whole of the country came from British (NOT the Afghans themselves). The first Ruler to even use the name 'Afghanistan' was Amir Abdur-Rehman Khan (ruled 1880-1901)who was installed by the British after the 2nd Anglo-Afghan war (while the original ruler Yaqub Khan was deposed and exiled to India as a pensioner of the British).
The British even helped the Afghan rulers take Herat from the Persians (First Anglo-Persian war). A 'Great Game' was played where the 'Afghan' rulers were supported as a bulwark against expansionist Tsarist Russia. While Russia was trying to support Iran and make inroads into Afghanistan.
Until 1919 the ruler of Afghanistan was given a stipend every year by the British, arms flowed from British-India into Afghanistan and Kabul's foreign policy was controlled by the British.
Re: Afghania as a compromise
[RIGHT]نوازلیگ صوبہ سرحد کا نام افغانیہ رکھنے پرمتفق:
اسلام آباد(اُردو پوائنٹ تازہ ترین۔27مارچ 2010ء)مسلم لیگ نواز نے صوبہ سرحد کا نام افغانیہ رکھنے پر اتفاق کر لیا ہے۔مسلم لیگ نواز کے رہنما پیر صابر شاہ نے نجی ٹی وی سے گفتگو کرتے ہوئے بتایا کہ اے این پی نے صوبے کے نام کے لئے پختون خواہ ، پختونستان اور افغانیہ کے نام دیئے تھے۔انہوں نے کہاکہ ن لیگ کو صوبے کا نام افغانیہ بھی قبول ہے۔ اب گیند عوامی نیشنل پارٹی کی کورٹ میں ہے، مسلم لیگ نواز مزید کوئی لچک نہیں دکھا سکتی۔ دوسری جانب مسلم لیگ ق نے صوبے سرحد کے نام کی تبدیلی کے حوالے سے پارٹی کا اعلیٰ سطحی اجلاس منگل کو طلب کر لیا ہے۔مسلم لیگ ق کے ترجمان کے مطابق صوبے کے نام کی تبدیلی کے لئے ہزارہ اور ڈیرہ اسماعیل خان کے تحفظات کو بھی مد نظر رکھا جائے۔
SOMETHING IS BETTER THEN NOTHING..[/RIGHT]