Affirmation of the Attribute of Face for Allaah(from QURAN and SUNNAH)

system · February 5, 2001, 11:33pm

The Face of Allaah is one of Allaah’s Attributes which is true and real, just like all the other attributes that have been reported in the Book and the Sunnah, and it, like the others, has been repeatedly affirmed by the Salaf. The exact nature of His Face, like all the other attributes is unknown, and in this regard the statement of Imaam Maalik constitutes the scales by which all of attributes are understood, “Istiwaa is known, but its modality (kaif) is unknown, having faith in it is obligatory and asking about it (i.e. about its true nature is an innovation”. So this is the methodology of the Salaf with respect to this Attribute.

However, the Jahmiyyah in the present times (such as al-Kawtharee, al-Bootee, as-Saqqaaf, al-Kabbaani, al-Habashi) and those who have the affectations of Jahm Ibn Safwaan deny the Attribute of Face and resort to heretical interpretations.

With respect to this particular attribute, the practice of the innovators is only too well known. To strike the texts of the Book and the Sunnah against each other and to selectively quote that which agrees to their desires.

ONE: The explanation of al-Khattaabee, al-Bayhaqee, Ibn al-Qayyim, Ibn Uthaimeen and others:

Allaah has ascribed certain characteristics to His Face, so He said, “Everyone upon the Earth will perish, [but] shall remain the Face of your Lord, Full of Majesty and Honour” [55:26-27]. So the description “Dhul-Jalaali wal-Ikraam (Full of Majesty and Honour)” is related to “the Face…” since it is in the nominative case (raf’). This is different to His saying, “Blessed be the Name of Your Lord, the Owner of Majesty and Honour”, so in this verse the description “Dhil-Jalaali wal-Ikraam (Owner of Majesty and Honour)” is related to “Your Lord…” since it is in the genitive as is “Your Lord…”

So it is clear from this that Allaah has the attribute of Face, and this Face too has Attributes, such as in this verse. And this is undeniable.

Then from the Sunnah, is the saying of the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam), “His Veil is made of light and if He was to uncover it, the splendors/radiances (subuhaat) of His Face, would destroy everything of His creation that His Sight would reach.”

[Muslim, from Abu Moosa al-Ash’aree]

So it is clear from this that the Face, which is an Attribute of Allaah, also has attributes. In addition this hadeeth also affirms the Attribute of Sight for Allaah.

From this fact, the falsehood of the one who claims that Face refers to ‘reward’ or other such false interpolations can be witnessed. For how is it possible for ‘reward’ to be described by ‘Majesty and Honour’ and how is it possible for it to have ‘splendors/radiances’ that destroy everything in sight? And which of the Salaf have spoken of this? So the challenge to the Jahmiyyah is, apply your interpolations of Face to every mention of Face in the Book and the Sunnah and see where that leads you?

TWO: Then to establish this further, is the variety of supplications in which the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) seeks refuge in the Face of Allaah and how he (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) separates between the essence of Allaah and the Face of Allaah in the same supplication.

So amongst such supplications are:

**“I seek refuge in Your Noble Face, that You lead me astray, there is none worthy of worship save you…” **

[Abu Dawood and others].

In relation to the verse, “Say (O Muhammad) He has power to send punishment over you from above” [6:65], the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) said, “I seek refuge in Your face”

[Bukhaaree, in Kitaabut-Tawheed].

“I seek refuge in Allaah the Mighty (al-‘Adheem) and in His Noble Face and His Eternal Power for Shaytaan the Accursed”
[Abu Dawood].

So is it then plausible for a Muslim to seek refuge in a Face which in reality is ‘reward’ or ‘dominion’? For these are but created things and no Muslim seeks refuge in something created. Ibn al-Qayyim mentions concerning the third supplication above, “… so consider how he made a distinction between seeking refuge in the Essence (Dhaat) of Allaah and between His Noble Face. This is a clear refutation of the one who claims that Face is the Essence itself and of the one who claims that it is something created (i.e. other than Allaah)”.

This is because those things that are annexed to Allaah are of two types. Those things separate from Him, from His creation, such as al-Bait (the House of Allaah), an-Naaqah (the She Camel of Allaah), al-Abd (the Servant of Allaah) etc. Or those things that are not independent of Him, but rather from His Essence such as knowledge, life, seeing, hearing, power, speech etc. So when these are annexed to Him then it is an annexation which signifies real attributes, it is not one that signifies created things for this is falsehood. So when this is the case, how is it possible for a Muslim to seek refuge in something created? So from this the falsehood is made clear!

THREE: Ibn al-Qayyim explains regarding the verse “Wherever you may turn, you will find the Face/Countenance of Allaah”, then some of the Salaf have interpreted it to Face to mean the ‘qiblah’ of Allaah. Then this is something that is acceptable for this particular verse. But then is it correct for this meaning to be applied to other verses in which Face is mentioned? So of what benefit would this explanation be regarding the saying of Allaah, “[but] shall remain the Face of your Lord, Full of Majesty and Honour” [55:27] and “Except only the desire to seek the Face of His Lord, the Most High” [92:20] and “We feed you only for the Face of Allaah” [76:9]?

And what is correct regarding the saying of Allaah “Wherever you may turn, you will find the Face/Countenance of Allaah” is that it is just like the statements of Allaah in all the other verses in which Face is mentioned. In all the places in the Book and the Sunnah that Face has been mentioned, it has been attributed to Allaah in the same way, with the same meaning. It does not have two meanings that are opposed to each other. However there is an exception with respect to that which comes in Surah al-Baqarah. In this verse, the explanation that it refers to qiblah (direction) is not singled out [as the only understanding]. Rather it can also be applied to the Face of Allaah literally (haqeeqatan). And this is because this verse was revealed with respect to travelling. So when a person prays and he errs in finding the right direction, then wherever He turns he will be facing Allaah. And the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) said that “When a person stands for prayer, then Allaah is in front of him” [Bukharee and Muslim]. This is because He is high above His creation, ascended upon His Throne and He encompasses the whole of creation. So wherever a servant turns Allaah is in front of him. The Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) said, “Indeed Allaah has commanded you with prayer, so when you pray do not turn [to the left or to the right] for Allaah directs His Face to the face of His servant in his prayer so long as he does not turn away” [Ahmad and Tirmidhee, Hasan-Saheeh]. And also his (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) saying, “When the servant performs ablution well and stands to perform the prayer, Allaah turns to Him with His Face…” [Ibn Maajah, all of its narrators are thiqah]".

So from the above, it is clear that the verse of Surah Baqarah is just like the other verses, even if from one aspect, the meaning can be understood to be qiblah (direction).

However, it is not possible to apply the same explanation to all the other texts that have attributed Face to Allaah the Most High. And in this is a challenge to the Jahmiyyah : Apply your interpretations to the other places in the Book and the Sunnah where Face is mentioned and see where that leads you?

FOUR: Regarding the statement of Allaah the Most High, “For those who do good is the best (i.e. Paradise) and something more [that is better]…” 10:26], then the Messenger (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) said in explanation of this, “Looking at His Face, the Most High” [Muslim 1/163].

Therefore, the one who denies the attribute of Face for Allaah then he is claiming that the Believers in Paradise will be looking at something imaginary, and in this he has made a great error and invented a great lie. And the Companions, the Taabi’een, the Four Imaams, and all of the great Imaams of the Salaf are agreed that the Believers shall see the Face of their Lord in Paradise. Imaam ad-Daraqutnee (d. 385H) said: "Muhammad bin Mukhlad narrated to us: Muhammad bin Muhammad bin Umar bin al-Hakam, Abu Hasan ibn al-Attaar said: I heard Muhammad bin Mis’ab, the Worshipper saying: “Whoever claims that You do not speak and that You will not be seen in the Hereafter is a disbeliever in Your Face and he does not know You. I testify that You are above the Throne, above the seven heavens - not as Your enemies, the heretical apostates (Zanaadiqah) say.” Kitaab us-Sifaat of ad-Daraqutnee (no. 64)

FIVE: Concerning the interpretation that Face refers to His Essence (Dhaat). Then if it is meant by this that it refers to His Essence while at the same time affirming a Face for him, then this is acceptable. For Face is an attribute of His Essence and it is not something created or separate from Him. Hence, if everything will perish save His Face, then it is understood from this that His Dhaat will not perish either, it will remain and this is because Face is an Attribute of the Essence, not created and separate from it. However if it is meant that it refers to His Essence while at the same time denying the attribute of Face for Him, then this is falsehood as has been made clear from the above. And based upon this we can understand the statements of those scholars who explain that Face refers to His Essence in certain verses of the Qur’aan. So there is no contradiction between what they say and between the fact that Allaah has an Attribute of Face.

Ibn Hajar in Fath ul-Bari, in explanation of the verse “Everything shall perish except His Face” [28:88], explains the statement of Imaam Bukhaaree in his Kitaabut Tafseer of his Saheeh, “… except His Face, except His dominion, (illaa mulkahu)” saying,

“In the narration of an-Nasafi there occurs ‘Ma’mar said’ and then he mentioned the above. This Ma’mar is Abu ‘Ubaidah ibn al-Muthnaa, and these are his words taken from his book ‘Majaaz ul-Qur’aan’, however with the wording ‘except He’. At-Tabari has quoted the same from some of the linguists and al-Faraa mentioned the same. Ibn at-Teen and Abu ‘Ubaidah said, ‘except His Face, meaning His Majesty’. And it has been said ‘except He alone’, as you say ‘May Allaah ennoble your face’ meaning ‘may Allaah ennoble you’.”

So here, some of the scholars are of the opinion that Face here refers to the Essence, and there is no problem with this as has proceeded and nor does it negate the Attribute of Face for Allaah.

Now in case anyone tries to argue (in the favour of ta’wil) using this statement of Imaam Bukhaaree, which at best is indecisive, then what would be his reply to the fact that Imaam Bukhaaree affirms the Attribute of Face in his Kitaab ut-Taweed at the end of his Saheeh, also called ar-Raddu ‘alal-Jahmiyyah (Refutation of the Jahmiyyah), using as evidence the very same verse as above [28:88]!!!

Chapter: The Statement of Allaah, “Everything shall perish save His Face”.

Narrated Jabir bin Abdullaah, “When this verse, ‘Say (O Muhammad) He has power to send punishment on you from above’ [6:65], was revealed, the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, ‘I seek refuge with Your Face’. Allaah revealed, ‘Or from underneath your feet’ [6:65], the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) said, ‘I seek refuge with Your Face’. Then Allaah revealed ‘Or to cover you with confusion or party strife!’ [6:65], then the Prophet (sallallaahu alaihi wasallaam) said, ‘This is easier’.”

And here Imaam Bukhaaree affirms, without doubt, the Attribute of Face, just as he brought narrations in affirmation of Hand, Eyes, Self (Nafs), His Speech, His being above the Throne and many of the other attributes that the Jahmiyyah denied. So this puts an end to the argument adduced from his Kitaab ut-Tafseer.

In addition, the arguments presented above would also apply. Try imposing these such isolated explanations that you use for denying the Attribute of Face to all those occurrences of the mention of the Face in the Book and the Sunnah and see where that leads you?! Inconsistency and mere falsehood!!

Take it easy.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

The_Proffessor · February 6, 2001, 3:40am

I did posting from a particular website, then read somewhere that they don't use strong evidences, therefore, the posting is now nomore.

[This message has been edited by The Proffessor (edited February 05, 2001).]

system · February 6, 2001, 4:08am

Could we PLEASE get the link to the site where you got this article from and I shall refute your cut 'n' and paste and answer it well from the quran and hadith sources inshallah.

Post is about ATTRIBUTES OF ALLAH not where he is. Please stick to the topic. Thank you.

YOU take it easy now.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

analyze_it · February 6, 2001, 4:54am

Professor, please correct the spelling of your name. What kind of professor you are?

a1shah · February 6, 2001, 5:00am

Let's see how Commander of Believers, Imam Ali (as), describes the Almighty Creator.

Praise be to Allah for Whom one condition does not proceed another so that He may be the First before being the Last or He may be Manifest before being Hidden. Everyone called one (alone) save Him is by virtue of being small (in number); and everyone enjoying honour other than Him is humble. Every powerful person other than Him is weak. Every master (owner) other than Him is slave (owned).

Every knower other than Him is seeker of knowledge. Every controller other than Him is sometimes imbued with control and sometimes with disability. Every listener other than Him is deaf to light voices while loud voices make him deaf and distant voices also get away from him. Every onlooker other than Him is blind to hidden colours and delicate bodies. Every manifest thing other than Him is hidden, but every hidden thing other than Him is incapable of becoming manifest.

He did not create what He created to fortify His authority nor for fear of the consequences of time, nor to seek help against the attack of an equal or a boastful partner or a hateful opponent. On the other hand all the creatures are reared by him and are His humbled slaves. He is not conditioned in anything so that it be said that He exists therein, nor is He separated from anything so as to be said that He is away from it. The creation of what He initiated or the administration of what He controls did not fatigue Him. No disability overtook Him against what He created. No misgiving ever occurred to Him in what He ordained and resolved. But His verdict is certain, His knowledge is definite, His governance is overwhelming. He is wished for at time of distress and He is feared even in bounty.

Watcher,

To attribute a face with features is to have limited Allah (swt) and his glory. By attributing, you have compared him with that which exists or is created, when in fact, nothing that you can imagine is Allah (swt).

system · February 6, 2001, 5:16am

I am not going to get into the flimsy argument of whether Allah SWT has a face or not, but the ayaat that are referred to above, do NOT refer to Allahs SWT face in anyway. The translations, at best, are made to reflect the word 'attribute', and the translator has used the word 'face'. But the use of the word face in no way means 'a physical face'.

The arabic verses do not mention the word face anywhere in the Quran, and I dont believe any of the scholars mentioned in watchers post meant to refer to Allahs SWT face. And if they did, they are grossly wrong.

ramesha · February 6, 2001, 5:40am

Good job there a1shah. Thats really concludes the argument.

salaam
ramesha

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Shah_Jahan · February 6, 2001, 11:06am

Watcher,

Islam's basis is that Allah can't be confined to anything(physically or spiritually) as that is Shirk.

How Can I imagine that Allah(to whom all greatness is for)has a face!!!!

mm10 · February 6, 2001, 5:53pm

system · February 6, 2001, 6:49pm

To Sunnis:
So you don’t agree with the statments of the great Imaams and quranic verses and Hadiths? Read more about it, please:

General Principles Regarding Allaah’s Attributes
Author: Alawee ibn Abdil-Qaadir as-Saqqaaf Source: Sifaatullaah Azza wa Jalla al-Waaridah fil-Kitaab was-Sunnah (trans. by Dawud Burbank)

The First Principle
“Affirmation of everything that Allaah affirmed for Himself in His Book, or which His Messenger, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam, affirmed for Him. Without distorting (tahreef), without denial (ta’teel), and without saying how they are (takyeef) and without making any resemblance with the creation (tamtheel).”[1]

Since Allaah knows better about Himself than anyone else, and His Messenger, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam, knows better than rest of creation about his Lord.

The Second Principle
“To deny for Allaah everything which He has denied for Himself in His Book, or which His Messenger denied for Him, whilst believing its fully perfect opposite is confirmed for Allaah, the Most High.”[2]

Since Allaah knows better about Himself than His creation, and His Messenger out of all the people is the one who knows best about His Lord, so denying death for Him includes affirmation of His perfect Life, and denying oppression for Him includes affirmation of His perfect Justice, and denying sleep for Him includes affirmation of His perfect charge/control over everything.

The Third Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Might and Magnificent, are only to be spoken of in accordance with a text (tawfeeqiyyah). So nothing is affirmed for Him except that which Allaah affirmed for Himself (or which) was affirmed for Him by His Messenger, and nothing is denied for Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent, except that which He denied for Himself, was was denied for Him by His Messenger, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam.”[3]

Since there is no one who knows better about Allaah than Allaah, the Most High, (Himself), and there is no one of the creation who knows better about His Creator than Allaah’s Messenger, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam.

The Fourth Principle
“To halt with regard to vague terms which are not found to be affirmed or denied textually, in wording or meaning, so further explanation is sought. Then if something false is meant by it, then we declare Allaah free of that and reject it, and if something that is true and something that is not to be denied for Allaah, then it is accepted and the correct terminology as found in the text is to be made clear. And one should call for its usage in place of this vague and newly-introduced wording.”[4]

An example of this is the term ‘direction.’ We halt, neither affirming or denying it, and we ask the one who says it, ‘What do you mean by direction?’ So if he says, ‘I mean a place which contains Him.’ Then we say, ‘This is something false and Allaah is to be declared free from this, and we reject it.’ But if he says, ‘That He is unrestrictedly above.’ Then we say, ‘This is true it is not to be denied for Allaah,’ and we accept the meaning from him, and we say, ‘However, it is more fitting that you say, ‘He is above the heavens,’ or ‘He is above,’ as occurs in the authentic texts.’ But as for the term ‘direction’ then it is vague and a novelty, so it is better to leave it.

The Fifth Principle
“Every attribute which is established by an authentic report definitely agrees with sound intellect.”[5]

The Sixth Principle
"To cut off any hope of reaching the reality of ‘how.’ As He, the Most High, says:

And they will never compass anything of His knowledge.[6] [7]

The Seventh Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, are affirmed in detail/specifically, whereas denial is done generally.”[8]

So detailed and specific affirmation is, for example, affirming Hearing and Seeing, and the rest of the attributes. As for generalised denial, then like denial of any likeness as in His saying:

There is nothing like unto Him.[9]

The Eighth Principle
“Every name confirmed for Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, is inclusive of an attribute, but the opposite is not the case.”[10]

For example, Allaah’s name ar-Rahmaan (the Most Merciful) incorporates the attribute of mercy, al-Kareem (The Munificent) incorporates the attribute of munificence and al-Lateef (the Most Gentle and the All-Perceiving) incorporates the attribute of gentleness and being all-perceiving and so on. However, as for His attributes, (such as) His Will, His Coming, His Ascending-then names are not to be derived from them such as, ‘The One who Wills,’ ‘The Comer,’ ‘The One who Ascended,’ etc.

The Ninth Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Most High, are perfect, containing no deficiency in any sense at all.”[11]

The Tenth Principle
"Attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent, are dhaatiyyah - those pertaining to His Self, and fi’liyyah - those pertaining to His actions, and there is no limit or end to His actions.

And Allaah does what He wills."[12] [13]

The Eleventh Principle
“The proof from the Book and Sunnah for the establishment of an attribute is either:
(i) by clearly stating it,
(ii) or by its being incorporated by the name,
(iii) or by clear statement of an action or a description proving it.”[14]

Examples of the first are Mercy, Might, Power, His Face, His Hands and His Fingers etc.
Examples of the second are al-Baseer (The Seeing) which incorporates the attribute of sight, and as-Samee’ (The Hearing) which incorporates the attribute of hearing, and so on.
Examples of the third are (His Saying):

Ar-Rahmaan rose over the Throne.[15]

Which proves His having ascended, and (another example is His saying):

We shall exact retribution from the Mujrimoon.[16]

Which proves that He exacts retribution, and so on.

The Twelfth Principle
“One may seek refuge with Allaah, the Might and Magnificent’s, attributes and swear an oath by them.”[17]

From this is his, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam, saying, “I seek refuge of Your Pleasure from Your Wrath, and from Your granting safety from Your punishment ..” reported by Muslim (no. 486), and therefore al-Bukhaaree named a chapter heading in the Book of Oaths and Vows, “Chapter: Swearing an Oath by the Might of Allaah and His Attributes and His Words.”

The Thirteenth Principle
“Speech concerning the attributes is like speech about His Self.”[18]

Since just as His Self is real and does not resemble that of other than Him, then it is characterised by real attributes which also do not resemble the attributes of others, and just as affirming His Self is an affirmation of existence but not of ‘how’-then the same is true of the attributes.

The Fourteenth Principle
“Speech concerning some of the Attributes is like speech about the rest of them.”[19]

So whoever affirms the attributes of Allaah like Hearing, Seeing and Will, must therefore affirms Allaah’s Loving, being Pleased, His Anger and His Hating. Shikhul-Islaam Ibn Taymiyyah said, “And whoever differentiates between one attribute and another, despite their being the same with regard to reasons for their being literal or metaphorical-then he is contradicting himself, erroneous in his position, resembling those who believed in a part of the Book and disbelieved in other parts.”

The Fifteenth Principle
“Whatever is attributed to Allaah and is not something separate from Him, then it is an attribute of His and not something created, and everything that is attributed to Him and is something separate from Him, then it is something created. So not everything which is attributed to Allaah is necessarily an attribute of His.”[20]

Examples of the first are: Allaah’s Hearing, Allaah’s Seeing, His being Pleased and His Wrath.
Examples of the second are: The House of Allaah, the She-Camel of Allaah.

The Sixteenth Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent, and all other matters of 'aqeedah are established by that which is established from Allaah’s Messenger, sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallaam, even if it is a single hadeeth, even if it is aahaad.”[21]

The Seventeeth Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent, which are established in the Book and the Sunnah, are known and are explained literally-never metaphorically or figuratively. But as for ;how’ they are, then that is unknown.”[22] [23]

The Eighteenth Principle
“Whatever occurs in the Book or the Sunnah, then it is binding upon every Believer to hold what it entails as his saying and to believe in it, even is he does not understand its meaning.”[24]

The Nineteenth Principle
“The domain of reports[25] is wider than that of the attributes, and so things related about Him are not necessarily dependant solely upon text, such as ‘The Pre-Existing,’ that He is a ‘thing,’ that He ‘exists.’”[26]

The Twentieth Principle
“No analogy is made regarding the attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent.”[27]

So no analogy is made between His liberality (sakhaa’) and His generosity (jood). Nor between His Strength (Jalad) and His Might (Qawwah). Nor His Capability (isti’aanah) and His Power (Qudrah). Nor His Compassion (riqqah) and His Mercy (rahmah) and (ra’fah). Nor His being Aware and His Knowing and so on. Since with regard to the attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic, we may not go beyond the principle of halting until a text is found, as has been seen in the third principle.

The Twenty-First Principle
“The attributes of Allaah, the Mighty and Magnificent, cannot be enumerated, since every name comprises an attribute as has preceded, and Allaah’s names cannot be enumerated since from them are those which Allaah has retained with Himself in the knowledge of the Unseen.”

NOTES [REFERENCES]:
[1] 'Aqeedatus-Salaf Ashaabul-Hadeeth of as-Saaboonee, p. 4, Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 3/3, 4/182, 5/26, 6/38 and 515.
[2] Al-'Aqeedatut0Tadmuriyyah, of Ibn Taymiyyah, p. 55, Al-Jawaab Saheeh Liman Baddala Deenal-Maseeh, by him also, 3/139.
[3] Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/26.
[4] At-Tadmuriyyah, p. 65, Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/299, 6/36.
[5] Mukhtasarus-Sawaa’iq al-Mursalah, 1/141 and 253.
[6] Soorah Taa haa (20):110.
[7] Manhaj wa Diraasaat li Aayaatil-Asmaa was-Sifaat, of Muhammad al-Ameen ash-Shanqeetee, p. 26.
[8] Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 6/37 and 515.
[9] Soorah Shooraa (42):11.
[10] Badaa’i’ul-Fawaa’id, 1/162 of Ibnul-Qayyim, Al-Qawaa’idul Muthlaa fee Sifaatillaah wa Asmaa’ihil Husnaa, p. 30 of Ibn 'Uthaymain.
[11] Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/206, Mukhtasarus-Sawaa’iq al-Mursalah, 1/232 and Badaa’i’ul-Fawaa’id, 1/168.
[12] Soorah Ibraaheem (14):27.
[13] Al-Qawaa’idul Muthlaa, p. 30.
[14] Al-Qawaa’idul-Muthlaa, p. 35.
[15] Soorah Taa Haa (20):5.
[16] Soorah as-Sajdah (32):22.
[17] Majmoo’ul-Fatwaawaa, 6/143 and 229, and see Sharhus-Sunnah of al-Baghawee (1/185-187) and some of them differentiate between swearing an oath by an attribute pertaining to an action and one pertaining to His Self, and they say, ‘It is not permissible to swear (check?) by an attribute pertaining to an action.’
[18] Al-Kalaam ‘alas-Sifaat of al-Khateeb al-Baghdaadee, p. 20, Al-Hujjah fee Bayaanil-Mahajjah of Qawaamsu-Sunnah (al-Asbahaanee), 1/173, At-Tadmuriyyah (p. 43) and Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/330 and 6/355.
[19] At-Tadmuriyyah, p. 31 and Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/212.
[20] Al-Jawaab as-Saheeh liman-Baddala Deenal-Maseeh,3/145, Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 9/290, Majmoo’ Fataawaa wa Rasaa’il ibn 'Utahimain, 1/166.
[21] Mukhtasarus-Sawaa’iqul-Mursalah, 2/332, 412 and 43.
[22] For a reply to the doubts and claims of similarity refer to, Ar-Risaalatut-Tadmuriyyah, Munaazaatul-'Aqeedatil-Waasitiyyah, Ar-Risaalatul-Hamawiyyatul-Kubraa and Ar-Risaaltul-Marraakhashiyyah, all of them within Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 3/1-128, 1/160-194, 5/5-121 and 5/133-193, and all of them have also been published separately.
[23] At-Tadmuriyyah, pp. 43-44, Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/36-42, Mukhtasarus-Sawaa’iqul-Mursalah, 1/238 and 2/106 -.
[24] At-Tadmuriyyah, p. 65, Majmoo’ul-Fataawaa, 5/295 and Daqaa’qut-Tafseer, 5/245.
[25] I.e., about Allaah and His actions.
[26] Badaa’I’ul-Fawaa’id if Ibnul-Qayyim, 1/162.
[27] Sha’nud-Du’aa of al-Khattaabee, p. 111.

Best of luck.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

system · February 6, 2001, 7:13pm

Here comes the sectarianism again

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

What is a sunni? Nothing but a word doctored up by current day folks. same goes for ‘wahabi’ and ‘shia’. No such division existed during the time of Prophet SAW, and there is a reason that he said that only one out of the 73 odd sects will go to jannah.

Fishing out quotes by someone belonging to the same sect as your ‘opponents’ does not prove anything. If you believe in something, come out with it as your own belief…not as the belief of someone else.

system · February 6, 2001, 7:19pm

EA, first of all, I do NOT believe in any sect or belong to any. The reason I mentioned the "to sunni" is because I do not want to argue with the shia, the sects in Islam are a REALITY my friend, and they have named them selves such and such, I only used that privilege to differenciate between them so THEY and I don't confuse each other off.

See, the so called shias do not believe in the 4 Imaams that sunnis do...do you get my point?

Prophet predicted that their would be 73 sects, and there will be thats a reality, and they will name themselves as they have already so why not call them with those names?

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

system · February 6, 2001, 8:05pm

EA, first of all, I do NOT believe in any sect or belong to any.

Then you should not refer to any either.

the sects in Islam are a REALITY my friend,

No they are not a reality. Sects OUTSIDE islam maybe a reality. Islam does not propagate or dictate any sectarianism

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and they have named them selves such and such,

Yes, of course names have to be given to them, since they are different from what true Islam is. If a person is following the true word of Allah SWT, then he is following Islam. If he claims to follow some other sect, he is essentially evicting himself from the fold of Islam and entering himself into the fold of ‘a sect’, which will have a different name.

Prophet predicted that their would be 73 sects, and there will be thats a reality, and they will name themselves as they have already so why not call them with those names?

Yes, he predicted that, but he did not say they will be sects within Islam. He said that those sects will deviate from the path of Islam, which is why he said that only one will go to jannah.

Regardless of what people believe, our personal duty is limited to propagating Islam in its true essence. The true word of Islam has the power to erase any other falsification. Our personal beliefs dont matter a lick regarding what we think about a certain sect. And more importantly, by referring to sects, we draw ourselves into the same fold. So if you dont believe in sects, you should not be talking about them.

mm10 · February 6, 2001, 9:37pm

Well said EA

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Liked it

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a1shah · February 7, 2001, 10:57am

Commander of the Faithful, Imam Ali (as) has clearly described the oneness of Almighty Allah (swt) as follows:

He who assigns to Him (different) conditions does not believe in His oneness, nor does he who likens Him grasp His reality. He who illustrates Him does not signify Him. He who points at Him and imagines Him does not mean Him. Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause). He works but not with the help of instruments. He fixes measures but not with the activity of thinking. He is rich but not by acquisition.

Times do not keep company with Him, and implements do not help Him. His Being precedes times. His Existence precedes non-existence and His eternity precedes beginning. By His creating the senses it is known that He has no senses. By the contraries in various matters it is known that He has no contrary, and by the similarity between things it is known that there is nothing similar to Him. He has made light the contrary of darkness, brightness that of gloom, dryness that of moisture and heat that of cold. He produces affection among inimical things.

He fuses together diverse things, brings near remote things and separates things which are joined together. He is not confined by limits, nor counted by numbers. Material parts can surround things of their own kind, and organs can point out things similar to themselves. The word(1) "mundhu" (i.e. since) disproves their eternity, the word "qad" (that denotes nearness of time of occurrence), disproves their being from ever and the word "lawla" (if it were not) keep them remote from perfection.

Through them the Creator manifests Himself to the intelligence, and through them He is guarded from the sight of the eyes.

Stillness and motion do not occur in Him, and how can that thing occur in Him which He has Himself made to occur, and how can a thing revert to Him which He first created, and how can a thing appear in Him which He first brought to appearance. If it had not been so, His Self would have become subject to diversity, His Being would have become divisible (into parts), and His reality would have been prevented from being deemed Eternal. If there was a front to Him there would have been a rear also for Him . He would need completing only if shortage befell Him. In that case signs of the created would appear in Him, and He would become a sign (leading to other objects) instead of signs leading to Him. Through the might of His abstention (from affectedness) He is far above being affected by things which effect others.

He is that which does not change or vanish. The process of setting does not behove Him. He has not begotten any one lest He be regarded as having been born. He has not been begotten otherwise He would be contained within limits. He is too High to have sons. He is too purified to contact women. Imagination cannot reach Him so as to assign Him quantity. Understanding cannot think of Him so as to give him shape. Senses do not perceive Him so as to feel Him. Hands cannot touch Him so as to rub against Him. He does not change into any condition. He does not pass from one state to another. Nights and days do not turn Him old. Light and darkness do not alter Him.

It cannot be said that He has a limit or extremity, or end or termination; nor do things control Him so as to raise Him or lower Him, nor does anything carry Him so as to bend Him or keep Him erect. He is not inside things nor outside them. He conveys news, but not with the tongue or voice. He listens, but not with the holes of the ears or the organs of hearing. He says, but does not utter words. He remembers, but does not memorise. He determines, but not by exercising His mind. He loves and approves without any sentimentality (of heart). He hates and feels angry without any painstaking. When He intends to create someone He says "Be" and there he is, but not through a voice that strikes (the ears) is that call heard. His speech is an act of His creation. His like never existed before this. If had been eternal it would have been the second god.

It cannot be said that He came into being after He had not been in existence because in that case the attributes of the created things would be assigned to Him and there would remain no difference between them and Him, and He would have no distinction over them. Thus, the Creator and the created would become equal and the initiator and the initiated would be on the same level. He created (the whole of) creation without any example made by someone else, and He did not secure the assistance of any one out of His creation for creating it.

He created the earth and suspended it without being busy, retained it without support, made it stand without legs, raised it without pillars, protected it against bendings and curvings and defended it against crumbling and splitting (into parts). He fixed mountains on it like stumps, solidified its rocks, caused its streams to flow and opened wide its valleys. Whatever He made did not suffer from any flow, and whatever He strengthened did not show any weakness.

He manifests Himself over the earth with His authority and greatness. He is aware of its inside through his knowledge and understanding. He has power over every thing in the earth by virtue of His sublimity and dignity. Nothing from the earth that he may ask for defies Him, nor does it oppose Him so as to overpower Him. No swift-footed creature can run away from Him so as to surpass Him. He is not needy towards any possessing person so that he should feed Him. All things bow to Him and are humble before His greatness. They cannot flee away from His authority to someone else in order to escape His benefit or His harm. There is no parallel for Him who may match Him and no one like Him so as to equal Him.

He will destroy the earth after its existence, till all that exists on it will become non-existent. But the extinction of the world after its creation is no stranger than its first formation and invention. How could it be? Even if all the animals of the earth, whether birds or beasts, stabled cattle or pasturing ones, of different origins and species, dull people and sagacious men -- all jointly try to create (even) a mosquito they are not able to bring it into being and do not understand what is the way to its creation. Their wits are bewildered and wandering. Their powers fall short and fail, and return disappointed and tired, knowing that they are defeated and admitting their inability to produce it, also realising that they are too weak (even) to destroy it.

Surely, after the extinction of the world, Allah the Glorified will remain alone with nothing else beside Him. He will be, after its extinction, as He was before its production: without time or place or moment or period. At this moment, period and time will not exist, and years and hours will disappear. There will be nothing except Allah, the One, the All-powerful. To Him is the return of all matters. Its initial creation was not in its power; and the prevention of its extinction was (also) not in its power. If it had the power to prevent it, it would have existed for ever. When He made anything of the world, the making of it did not cause Him any difficulty, and the creation of anything which He created and formed did not fatigue Him. He did not create it to heighten His authority nor for fear of loss or harm, nor to seek its help against an overwhelming foe, nor to guard against any avenging opponent with its help, nor for the extension of His domain by its help, nor for boasting (over largeness of His possession) against a partner, nor because He felt lonely and desired to seek its company.

Then after its creation He will destroy it, but not because any worry has overcome Him in its upkeep and administration, nor for any pleasure that will accrue to Him, nor for the cumbrousness of anything over Him. The length of its life does not weary Him so as to induce Him to its quick destruction. But Allah, the Glorified, has maintained it with His kindness, kept it intact with His command and perfected it with His power. Then after its destruction, He will resuscitate it, but not for any need of His own towards it, nor to seek the assistance of any of its things against it, nor to change over from the condition of loneliness to that of company, nor from the condition of ignorance and blindness to that of knowledge and search, nor from paucity and need towards needlessness and plenty, nor from disgrace and lowliness towards honour and prestige.

Truth has been revealed and falsehood destroyed.

system · February 8, 2001, 7:55pm

So, EA these sects I have been hearing all my life, they are not part of Islam? As you said they maybe reality OUTSIDE Islam? That sentence sounds good, but is that really true?

You have shias "claiming" to be the right followers of Islam and than you have Sunnis "claiming" to be the right followers of Islam. So there are Naqshbandis "claiming" to be the right followers of Islam - Brailvies claiming to be the right followers of Islam - Ismaelis "claiming" to be the right followers of Islam?

Out of 73 sects that will emerge "claiming" they are the true followers of Islam ONLY 1 (one) will go in to Paradise, according to Hadiths. So out of those 73 that are claiming to be the true followers of Islam are the followers of the TRUE islam.
Who is it you ask?

You have to read Quran and study the sunnah to determine that.

Quran does not ask you to ask the dead for help like most brailvies believe.
Quran does not ask you to elevate normal human beings above the levels of Prophets like most shias do.
Quran does not ask you to have a "sheikh" present when making dua with Allah so the "sheikh" can intercede for you with allah right at that moment like most Naqshbandis do...
Quran does not ask you to hold feasts and melas on graves of saints so that they might fulfil your needs, like most people do in Pakistan.
Sunnah also negates those shirkana rituals that people have innovated into the Islam on the name of Love and respect to those Imaams and shahs.

Want me to go on?

here is more about the current topic[key words are ATTRIBUTES and not comparison between allah and us, astaqfirullah.]

How to Believe in the Attributes of Allaah
Author: Shaikh Saalih al-Fawzaan
Source: Sharh Aqeedat ul-Waasitiyyah (Eng. Trans. Abu Iyad as-Salafi)

Text
And it is from eemaan in Allaah to have eemaan in what Allaah has described Himself with in His Book and in what His Messenger (sas) has described Him with, without changing the original meaning of these texts, without denying such attributes for Allaah (Ta'teel), without enquiring into their true nature (Takyeef) and without likening [His attributes] to those of the creation (Tamtheel).

Explanation

After the author (rh) mentioned, in a general way, the fundamental principles, having eemaan in which is obligatory, he mentions them in a detailed and elaborate way. He commences with the first foundation and that is having eemaan in Allaah, the Exalted. He says that included in this pillar is to have eemaan in His attributes with which He has described Himself in His Book or which His Messenger (sas) has described Him with in his Sunnah. This can only occur if we establish and affirm such attributes for Allaah in the precise way they have come in the Book and the Sunnah, with the same words and intended meanings, without changing the words used for these attributes, denying their meanings, likening them to those of the creation and enquiring into their true nature. Furthermore, this only occurs if we depend upon the Book and the Sunnah. We do not go beyond the Qur'aan and the Hadeeth since they restrict (the use of whatever is besides them such as intellect and other such matters).

The meaning of (...Tahreef...) is to introduce a change or make an alteration (taghyeer) and also to turn something away from its true position (imaalah). It is said: He has deviated (inharafa) from such and such when he digressed and turned away from it. Tahreef is of two types:

The First Type: Changing the Word. This is to refrain from (accepting) this word as it is and instead adopting another word either by adding or taking away an additional letter or word or by changing a vowel point. An example is the saying of the people of misguidance regarding the speech of Allaah:

Ar-Rahmaan ascended (istawaa) the Throne [Taahaa 20:5]

They say: istawlaa, which gives it the meaning of conquered and have therefore added a letter to the verse. Also, their saying about the speech of Allaah

And your Lord comes (jaa'a) with the angels in rows [Fajr 89:22]

They say: The command (amr) of your lord, meaning the command of your Lord comes. Therefore, they have added a word. Also their saying about the speech of Allaah:

And Allaah spoke to Moses direct

They change the vowel point in the word Allaah, so they made it from Allaahu to Allaaha giving it the altered meaning: And to Allaah Moses spoke direct. So they have changed the vowel point from a dhamma to a fatha to enable a change in the meaning.

The Second Type: Changing the Meaning. This means to refrain from (accepting) the (established and proven) meaning (of the word in question) as it is, to refuse its reality and to give the word signifying it the meaning of another word. An example is the saying of the innovators: The meaning of mercy (rahmah) is: The desire to bestow favours, and that the meaning of anger (ghadab) is: The desire to seek revenge.

The meaning of (...Ta'teel...) in the language is to leave and vacate (al-ikhlaa'). It is said: He neglected it, left it (atalahu) meaning he vacated it (akhlaahu). The intended meaning of it here is the denial of Allaah's attributes, free and sublime is He from all imperfections, the Exalted. The difference between tahreef and ta'teel is that tahreef is to deny the correct meaning which is proven by the texts (of the Book and the Sunnah) and substituting another incorrect meaning for it. Ta'teel is to merely deny the proven and established meaning without substituting it for another meaning and this is the way of the Mufawwidah. Therefore, anyone who changes the meaning of the word (a muharrif) is also one who denies the proven and correct meaning (a muattil) but one who denies the meaning indicated by the word is not one who actually changes the proven meaning.

The meaning of (...Takyeef...) is to specify the exact nature and reality of the established meaning of the attribute. It is said: He gave something a shape or form (kayyafa) when he made for it a known quality. Committing takyeef with Allaah's attributes is to specify their precise nature, state or condition and their form or shape. This is impossible for mankind since the knowledge of this is amongst that knowledge which Allaah has kept to Himself. Therefore, there is no way of knowing the precise nature of His attributes because the attribute follows the Self (dhaat). Just as it is not possible for a person to know the exact nature of the Self of Allaah, it is likewise impossible to know the exact nature of His attributes. Their exact nature is not known. This is why when Imaam Maalik was asked about the verse:

Ar-Rahmaan has ascended (istawaa) the Throne [Taahaa 20:5]

How is the ascending (istawaa)? He replied: "The ascending is known, its reality is unknown, having eemaan in it is obligatory and asking about it is an innovation."

And this is said with respect to all of Allaah's attributes.

The meaning of (...Tamtheel...) is resemblance (tashbeeh) and it is committed when it is said that Allaah's attributes are like the attributes of the creation. For example, it might be said: The hand of Allaah is like our hands and His hearing is like our hearing. High is Allaah above such things. Allaah said:

There is nothing like Him and He is the All-Hearing, the All-Seeing [Shooraa 42:11]

Therefore, it cannot be said that His attributes are like our attributes or that they resemble our attributes just like it cannot be said that the Self of Allaah is like our selves or that it resembles our selves.

The believing muwahhid is the one who establishes and affirms all the attributes in the manner that befits and suits the might and grandeur of Allaah. The mu'attil denies all of them or some of them and the mushabbih, the mumaththil (one who likens and compares them to those of the creation) affirms them in a way that does not befit Allaah but rather befits the creation.

Good Luck.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: "Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish."
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

system · February 8, 2001, 9:20pm

Watcher…you caught to a bit of what i was saying. Prophet SAW said that one group will go to jannah…and the rest wont…which means that the other 72 sects are deviant sects. So yes, that does mean that all those sects are OUT of the folds of Islam. Islam does NOT have 73 versions, hence we CANNOT have 73 sects within Islam

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Islam has but ONE version, and ONE version alone. And that is adequately explained in the Quran.

Now what is our duty? Our duty is to grasp that reality that is listed in the Quran, and make sure WE are following it. We are NOT to be obsessed with what someone else is following.

Everyone in this world claims to follow the right path. Christians, jews, hindus, all say they are right. We cannot fish out their histories and prove them wrong. All we have to do is simply show them Islam, which we believe to be right. Negative politics do not accomplish anything but hatred…and they only manage to alienate everyone from you. Alienation means that even if someone previously had a chance of coming to the right path, that chance is gone now because of negativity.

Who cares what all the different sects believe in? The best way to show the truth is to display it, and act it. Wonder why the muslim ummah is considered the least reliable, the least trust worthy across the world? Because they dont act upon what they preach. Think about it

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system · February 8, 2001, 9:33pm

Yes, we agree on the first part. Now our duty is to grasp on what is in QURAN and Sunnah and live our lives like that right? I am sure you will agree. But isn’t it a duty of a MUSLIM to preach and teach other the way perscribed in QURAN and Sunnah? Isn’t that a duty of a Muslim also?

We are not talking about everyone else who belongs to other RELIGIONS, we are talking about creeds which emerge from within Islam and deviate into kurf presented and followed by those religions and they start to call that Islam. We as MUSLIM have to counter attack that with what is truth from the QURAN and SUNNAH and tell the world that hey this is NOT islam and this is what islam says about such and such matter.

Take for instance terrorism and how the western world looks at it: Most people, no make that more than most people in the west think that ISLAM teachs Muslims to be terrorists and bomb off buildings and kill innocent people. WHICH IS WRONG and FALSE. Islam does not teach us that. But why are we not out there telling the misunderstood that Islam does not teach us to be like that. Keeping it to our selves only makes us selfish little heretics nothing more and not warning others about people who misrepresent Islam on the expense of Islam is a even worse.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

And say: “Truth has (now) arrived, and Falsehood perished:for Falsehood is (by its nature) bound to perish.”
(Quran, Al-Isra, 17:81)

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited February 08, 2001).]

system · February 8, 2001, 9:48pm

But why are we not out there telling the misunderstood that Islam does not teach us to be like that.

Practicality teaches way better than theory.

Whatever we learn in schools and colleges is accompanied by practical stuff, which establishes our belief in things like 2+2=4. Similarly, for true Islam to be portrayed to the rest of the world, or to deviant sects, we have to practise it for them to know what true Islam is.

Noone can deny the large magnitude of hypocrisy that exists in the muslim world. We all say that Islam does not promote terrorism. Yet there are elements among us who twist the noble concept of jihad to give it an Islamic cover, yet conduct terrorism in its guise. They too are muslims, yet they are going about it the wrong way.
We too are muslims. And we can take the right approach, and portray Islam in its true light. People need to see it to believe it. Noone will believe your word for it.

Remember Hazrat Umar RA, when he saw a man performing ablution the wrong way, and despite being ameer-ul-momineen, he did not interject the man. He simply sat next to him, and started performing ablution himself. The man caught on his mistake after watching Hazrat Umar Farooq RA, and corrected himself.
Without interference, without insult, and without embarassment, Hazrat Umar RA got the message through. Thats the key.

Practice the truth, and people will come to you. Preach it, and noone will listen.

Ahmad_G · February 9, 2001, 1:50am

[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**He who assigns to Him (different) conditions does not believe in His oneness, nor does he who likens Him grasp His reality. He who illustrates Him does not signify Him. He who points at Him and imagines Him does not mean Him. Everything that is known through itself has been created, and everything that exists by virtue of other things is the effect (of a cause). He works but not with the help of instruments. He fixes measures but not with the activity of thinking. He is rich but not by acquisition.