adam, not the first human being

adam, not the first human being, the koranic theory of evolution.

unlike bible, koran says that human beings were created gradually, step by step, in degrees. this would shock some readers to an extent of believing that i am going against the koran. but i will prove hereby that the molvis’ opinion of man being created from clay and god blowing a spirit into it, is extremely wrong, unscientific, unbelievable, illogical, unkoranic and unislamic. so in chapter 71, Noah, allah says,
“wakad khalakakum atwara”
thus telling us that we were created by developing from one degree into another one. the human mind havent evolved at once either. it too has developed in degrees.

koran tells us, that there was a human race before adam, but was not capable of understanding the laws of allah. that human race lived in caves and jungles. koran called them “jinn”. jinn, in arabic means those who stay hidden. some molvis have translated these jinns as ghosts. but korans explanation does not fit to this translation. it is clearly stated in the koran, that when adam was thrown out of the gardens, his people were told to stay away from iblees, ( who also was a jinn ) and his companions. thus there will be two groups in the world. those who follow adam, and those who follow iblees. ( read chapter 7, the battlements, verse 26 to 28) adam called people to logic, to thinking, and thus, to god, and iblees told them to keep stuck to what their fathers and forefathers believe in, and not to use the brain. this story has been repeating ever since, and two groups exist, those who follow adam, and those who follow iblees.

this story makes it clear, that iblees, the jinn, and his companions were from the human race. otherwise, if some molvi argues that they were jinns, as found in fairy tales, then he/she will have to a) give a proof over existance of such creation b) make it clear why such jinns were living together with human beings. thus those jinns as in fairy tales, are to be blamed at those who tell tales, while the jinns explained here in the koran are from within the human race. they lived on the earth before adam, and did not possess completely developed brains. when time came for a completely developed brain, adam was sent with rules and teaching. those who were not yet wise enough got up against adam. such a thing happened when the next prophet came, and has been happening to date.

adam came as the first development to the human brain, followed by a series of prophets each coming for a new degree of evolution of brain. the rules stated by those prophets are talked against, and are not followed, by those who follow iblees and his companions. those who follow adam, recognize the prophet of their time, and submit their lives to his teachings.thus koran tells us that human beings have been created by evolution, with a step-by-step development of the brain.

when koran talks about adam, allah dos not say, i want to create a human being. he states that he wanted to have an assisstant on the earth. this reveals that there already were human beings on the earth, but no prophet. adam therefore is the first prophet, but certainly not the first human being.

the next verse related to a more important point,
" we created you, then we shaped you through an evolution ( sawwarnaakum ), and then we told the angels to bow to adam."

this verse makes it more clear that there had been many human beings before adam. the word “sawwarnakum” tells us how they passed through very very long stages of evolution, and when they reached a suitable shape, god send adam to teach them, and ordered the angels to bow before him. it was after reaching this stage that adam was sent.

thus if any molvi still argues that adam was the first human being, then this would be unfair of him/her, and would show his support towards the unscientific views of bible, rather than the real story as told in the koran.


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. ‘O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.’ How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,’ A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

Well done Jewel


MIRZA YASIR

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I would like to add few more points to it.

As you talked about jinn, In arabic micro-organisms are also refered as jinn because of the same reason as jewel told us that those people used to live in caves and kind of hide from the world. Snakes are also sometimes called jinns in arabic because they appear and then hide again.

When jewel said that God ordered the angels to bow Adam. Don’t try to take literal mening from it. The “Sajida” means to obey, to follow. It doesn’t mean real sajida because a real sajida is only for Allah and is not for anybody else. (I hope jewewl also has the same thinking)

For those molvis who doesn’t believe in evolution, I will just put a simple logical question. Molvis say that in hazrat adams time, children were born in morning and by evening they were adults and they used to marry each other. If a molvi has this idea then he has to believe in evolution because this is a very big evolution itself that now it takes 20 years to become an adult and at that time it just took few hours. Secondly molvis believe that Eva was born from rib of adam, If this is true then it is another big evolution because there is no such thing in human ribs now a days.

Now I am reposting one of my reply from another thread to backup Jewel’s arguments.

ANOTHER PROOF OF ADAM NOT BEING FIRST HUMAN BEING

These molvis are making their own stories which has no basis of Quran and Hadith.

Most of the people will be aware of the Masnoon Ayaat which are recited on the occasion of Nikah. (Start of Sura Nisa)

In the first ayat after Bissmillah in Sura Nisa, Allah says that He has created mankind from “Nafs-i-Wahida”, Then Allah says that from that “Nafs-i-Wahida” he created the opposite sex and formed the pairs. The Question is that what is “Nafs-i-Wahida”. Is it a man from which a woman was created or Woman came first and then man was created. If we look at the word “Nafs-i-Wahida” it is a “Moanas” i.e. is used for female. This clearly explains that the woman came first and men were created afterwards.

KHUDA HAFIZ


MIRZA YASIR

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U mean u guys dont believe in the theory of evolution at all ?? Isn't this a case of 'religion preventing free thinking'?

Who said we don’t believe in evolution? That’s what I was trying to prove from my examples of Adam. Actually Molvis say there was no evolution. So I was saying that if they don’t believe in evolution then they should not believe in that concept of birth of Eva and their childrens

**We believe in evolution BUT ** we believe that the Evolution which happened was a guided evolution. And It was guided by Allah. He first created those pre-historic creatures and then humans. Whereas the western scientisits say that it all started by itself and there was/is no God. They believe in the “Survival for the Fittest” theory an they say that whatever was good it survuved and evolved into another thing. Molvis are the third group which say that there was no evolution at all.


MIRZA YASIR

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dearest queer,

no this isn't a case of 'religion preventing free thinking', its rather a case of people criticizing an essay without reading it.

sydney smith, an english writer and clergyman once said, "I never read a book before reviewing it; it prejudices a man so."

sallaams

ok i will not debate on this cuz its useless....anyway all i ll say is and remember wat is say:

QURAN DOES NOT FOLLOW SCIENCE, THE SCIENCE FOLLOWS QURAN get it as we ssee today there are things in quran that we are finding out in this century example the birth . anyway i should leave on this and if any body wants to make this an argument soooo Be it!!!

JaaWaN

[This message has been edited by Jaawan (edited April 01, 1999).]

Do we also have any idea about the whole chicken and egg issue. Lets just settle it :)

Mr. Jawaan,

Quran and science both are from Allah, so they have to go together. And I have proven my point from Quran. see the debate about “nafs-i-wahida”.

KHUDA HAFIZ


MIRZA YASIR

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Jaawan,

a little look at my post, and that of mirza yasir's will reveal the fact to you, that what we talked about, we based it on the koran, and not on the science. i have repeatedly urged the members to read the related essays before criticizing them. criticism, for the sake of criticism.

you say that science follows koran. if you think the scientific concept of evolution is against the koran, then you negate your own statment. thus what you said, added to the point we were trying to make, rather than harming it.


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

sallaam

i didnt criticized no one and i did said that in the begining that i do not want to make this a debate for my self. I just want to say is that in no point of ur life u can not say that quran is wrong((Im not saying or blaming you that u said that)) im just saying quran is right and science sometimes wrongs and quran and science have never went together they never were together and they never will go togther..they were not made to go together ..in quran wat is said is true in science u need time and expirements to do stuff..cuz allah never said that world was creat with A
B_I_G_____B_A_N_G
if any of you guys see that in quran or hadith i ll be happy to apologize for my writing! Fair Enogh

JaaWaN

Yes, Allah did say in Quran that earth was created from big bang. Wait for few days untill I get the refernces of those Aayat. I heard it from somebody but I can’t remeber the exact refernce


MIRZA YASIR

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ABDULLA started a new thread of the same topic, He said



The first human being was Hazrat Adam Alaihissalam as is evident from Quran, (check Surah Bakara).
Another proof from Surah Nisa - ayat 1:

O mankind! Be dutiful to your Lord, Who created you from a single person (Adam), and from him (Adam) He created his wife [Hawwa (Eve)], and from them both He created many men and women and fear Allâh through Whom you demand your mutual (rights), and (do not cut the relations of) the wombs (kinship)]. Surely, Allâh is Ever an All­Watcher over you.

Difference between humans, angels and jinns is that humans are made from clay, angels are made from nur, Allah SWT knows better about it, and jinns are made from fire. Iblis / shaitan is not an angel he is a jinn who are made from fire.

Allah SWT ordered all the angels to do Sajda to Hazrat Adam AS, and the meaning of Sajda is known by all of us.

Another view of the scientists is that human were in the shape of monkeys in the history and gradually changed their shapes, which is totally against Quran although there was a nation which changed in to monkeys which was Allah SWT's curse (Azab) on them.

As far as other beings are concerned, animals, birds, reptiles, micro organisms, etc. etc. Allah SWT said in Quran that HE has created pairs of them.

As far as creation of the universe is concerned, Quran does not support the Big Bang Theory, but Quran says :-

Surah Al Baqara - 117
The Originator of the heavens and the earth. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it : "Be!" - and it is.
Qun fa Yaqoon

Wallah O Alam Wassalatu wassalam O Ala Nabiana Muhammed



AND HERE IS MY REPLY

Why did you started a new thread hwen there was already a thread going on by jewels.
You discussed the first Ayat of Sura Nisa but totally forgot the point which I raised in the other thred. I said that "nafs-i-Wahida" is used for females. Its a moanas. So the first person can't be Hazrat Adam.

In a few days I will provide you referneces for the aayat refering to Evolution

And also about Big Bang theory. I just have to contact the person who told me this. See if I can get him.

BY THE WAY I WOULD PREFER TO TALK ABOUT THIS TOPIC IN THREAD BY JEWELS BECAUSE ITS NOT APPROPRIATE TO START A NEW THREAD WITH EXCATLY SAME TOPIC.

dear jawaan,

whether or not science and koran can go hand in hand, is a seperate discussion which you can discuss with me if you start a new thread.

sawaal yeh hai, is topic main SCIENCE kahaan say aa gayee? have i mentioned anything about sceince in my essay? please refrain from making comments without reading the essays.

i have repeatedly stated on this forum that all my knowledge comes from within the koran. i do not no any science other than what has been taught in the koran. i have only ONE source of knowledge, the koran. and in my post, i talked ONLY about koran and not about science.

if you believe in the koran, then produce even ONE verse from the whole book where it says adam is the first human being. otherwise try and read my essay again, and ask yourself with a neutral heart if it doesnt sound logical and koranic to you.


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

mirzayasir

Please shed some light on the number of ways the term "Nafs-i-Wahida" can be interpreted in the arabic language. Also, when you say Nafs-i-Wahida, you mean the body or the soul.
For example in URDU, the word "ROOH" is taken to be feminine but its applied equally for both men as well as women. We do not have a male word to substitute "ROOH".

for a second , even if we believe that nafs-e-waheda can be used for males, WHERE does it say that the particular male was ADAM?

i have explained in my essay that there were people before adam! thus even if someone refuses to believe in evolution thru step by step development, he can NOT say adam was the first human beings.

i have supported my essay with verses from the koran. if adam was the first human being, then show me even a single verse which says that adam was the first human being. this is a challenge!

I am not saying that the word is “Moanas”, I am saying that the word is used for females according to arabic grammar. I think you didn’t understand it. Sorry, if I made it convoluted.


MIRZA YASIR

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In the other thread abdulla posted the last sermon delivered by Hazoor SAW and at the end he said that because Hazoor SAW has said that we are sons/daughters of Adam and EVE so he was the first human being.

This is not true. Being son/daughters of Adam and Eve means spirtual sons and daughters not the real sons and daughters because he was the first prophet.

Another thing that acoording to estimates Hazrat Adam came 6000 years ago but scientists have discovered human skeletons in Austrailia as old as 40,000 years. What do you think about that?


MIRZA YASIR

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i have written a short essay in the other thread and made it clear what it means about human beings being sins/daughters of prophet mohammad.

also note that the molvis have COMPLETELY and BADLY failed, as regards the challenge i gave to them! they have not been able to give even ONE single verse out of the koran which says adam is the first human being!


So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)

jewels of insignificance

Refering back to your original post, you claimed Jinn are from human race. Though not a Quranic expert, I would like to put forth a few ayaats that I have noticed while reciting the Quran. Suraat Kahaf(chapter 18),ayaat 50, may Allah forgive me if I am wrong, more or less states "When we ordered the angels to bow down before Adam, every one did except Iblees. He was from among the JINNS and he disobeyed his Lord's command." Regarding the origin of the JINNS the Quran says (Al-Hijr Ayat 27)"And the Jinn did we create aforetime of essential fire" and in Al-Rahman (verse 15), it says "And the Jinn he did create of a smokeless flame of fire." In a hadith recorded by Sahih Muslim on the authority of Aisha, the Prophet(Peace be upon him)said, "The angels were created from light, the jinn were created from a smokeless flame of fire and Adam was created from what has been described to you [by Allah in the Quran].
Also it is important to differentiate between the tremendous ability that some jinn possess in terms of physical strength as indicated in Al-Naml ayaat 39-40 "A stalwart of the jinn said: I will bring it (throne of Bilqees) to you before you can rise from your place. Lo! I verily am strong and trusty for such work." Another place the Quran mentions Al-Jinn 8-9,"And(the Jinn who had listened to the Quran said): We had sought the heaven but had found it filled with strong warders and meteors. And we used to sit on places(high) therein to listen. But he who listens now finds a flame in wait for him."

Moreover, there are several places in the Quran, surah Al-Rahman being just one of them, where Allah has clearly addressed humans and Jinns by their repective titles. One can very well justifiably argue that if Jinn are the same as Humans, why then Allah would need a distinct title for them. The answer is simple: They are not.

[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 06, 1999).]