Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

There goes the “non-state actors” excuse…


India-Pakistan tensions will likely be inflamed by a trial that’s slated to begin in the United States next month: New court documents reveal that two terrorist operatives accused in the 2008 Mumbai massacre conspiracy are preparing to say they believed themselves to be working for Pakistani spies.“Defendant’s proposed defense is that his alleged illegal acts of providing material support to terrorists – at least those related to the Mumbai attacks – were done at the behest of the Pakistani government and the ISI, not the Lashkar terrorist organization.”
On May 16 in Chicago, Pakistani-Canadian Tahawwur Hussain Rana is to go on trial for allegedly providing terrorist scouts with the false credentials they used to pick targets in India’s largest city. Months after the surveillance operation was executed, Pakistani gunmen stormed luxury hotels, train stations and a Jewish centre, killing more than 160 civilians.
The rampage threatened to set two nuclear-armed neighbours on the path to war, until Pakistan – backed by U.S. intelligence officials – rushed to assure India that the attacks were not state-sponsored. A year later, Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in Illinois arrested Mr. Rana and his long-time friend David Coleman Headley – and accused the two Pakistani expatriates in their 50s of doing surveillance on behalf of a terrorist group.
Lashkar-e-Taiba, or LeT, is blamed for the Mumbai massacre, though Indian officials suspect the jihadists did not operate alone. Pakistan’s spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, is notorious for rogue elements and double games – and it has long cultivated ties with militant Islamist groups such as LeT to create buffers.
Mr. Rana’s trial threatens to lend an aura of credence to the suspicions of ISI complicity. According to court documents, the jury will hear the two Chicago conspirators say they believed themselves to be working for both LeT and the ISI.
Previously secret testimony heard only by a grand jury is referred to in a decision published earlier this month.
“I also told him [Mr. Rana] … how I had been asked to perform espionage work for ISI,” Mr. Headley, a Pakistani-American, testified to the grand jury.
Though cryptic, the statement is highly significant.
Having turned FBI informer in a bid to escape the death penalty, Mr. Headley will reveal the blow-by-blow of the Mumbai massacre surveillance scheme when he gives evidence against Mr. Rana.
That testimony should include the specifics on how Mr. Headley anglicized his Pakistani name, cultivated ties with LeT, videotaped sites in Mumbai, and briefed his handlers in Pakistan in the run-up to the carnage.
Speaking about how he entered India under a “false flag” to scout out targets, Mr. Headley told the grand jury that “I told [Mr. Rana] about my assignment to conduct surveillance in Mumbai. … I explained to him that the immigration office would provide a cover story for why I was in Mumbai.”
Though Mr. Rana is a Canadian citizen, for years he has been the proprietor of First World Immigration Services, a consultancy based in a South Asian enclave of Chicago.
Mr. Rana has been struggling to explain away allegations that he gave Mr. Headley the papers that allowed him to pose as an immigration consultant. According to recent filings, Mr. Rana argues he is a Pakistani patriot who was led to believe the ISI wanted his help – and therefore he should get the equivalent of diplomatic immunity.
On April 1, Judge Harry Leinenweber ruled that that defence to be “objectively unreasonable.”
“Defendant’s proposed defence is that his alleged illegal acts of providing material support to terrorists – at least those related to the Mumbai attacks – were done at the behest of the Pakistani government and the ISI, not the Lashkar terrorist organization,” reads the decision. “He argues that he is entitled to a public-authority defence because he acted under the authority – whether actual or apparent – of the Pakistani government and the ISI.”
Prosecutors also say they caught Mr. Rana and Mr. Headley on tape after the Mumbai attacks, discussing a plot to kill a Danish cartoonist who had lampooned the Prophet Mohammed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/accused-in-india-massacre-claims-ties-to-pakistani-secret-service/article1981052/

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

''Kasab'' in the video that everyone's seen is as much Pakistani as Dhoni

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

:smack: You are still stuck to that old conspiracy theory…

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

I see the other highlighted statements as more telling…
so Rana was led to believe that by Headley, which does not make it a fact
Now if Headley can produce some proof that indeed he was working for ISI that would be big
but right now its just rana’s statement that thats what headley told him
and then Headley’s statement without proof is just as reliable as Rana;s statement
their claims now that they thought they were working for ISI does not make it so.

India-Pakistan tensions will likely be inflamed by a trial that’s slated to begin in the United States next month: New court documents reveal that two terrorist operatives accused in the 2008 Mumbai massacre conspiracy are preparing to say they believed themselves to be working for Pakistani spies .“Defendant’s proposed defense is that his alleged illegal acts of providing material support to terrorists – at least those related to the Mumbai attacks – were done at the behest of the Pakistani government and the ISI, not the Lashkar terrorist organization.”
On May 16 in Chicago, Pakistani-Canadian Tahawwur Hussain Rana is to go on trial for allegedly providing terrorist scouts with the false credentials they used to pick targets in India’s largest city. Months after the surveillance operation was executed, Pakistani gunmen stormed luxury hotels, train stations and a Jewish centre, killing more than 160 civilians.
The rampage threatened to set two nuclear-armed neighbours on the path to war, until Pakistan – backed by U.S. intelligence officials – rushed to assure India that the attacks were not state-sponsored. A year later, Federal Bureau of Investigation agents in Illinois arrested Mr. Rana and his long-time friend David Coleman Headley – and accused the two Pakistani expatriates in their 50s of doing surveillance on behalf of a terrorist group.
Lashkar-e-Taiba, or LeT, is blamed for the Mumbai massacre, though Indian officials suspect the jihadists did not operate alone. Pakistan’s spy agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, is notorious for rogue elements and double games – and it has long cultivated ties with militant Islamist groups such as LeT to create buffers.
Mr. Rana’s trial threatens to lend an aura of credence to the suspicions of ISI complicity. According to court documents, the jury will hear the two Chicago conspirators say they believed themselves to be working for both LeT and the ISI.
Previously secret testimony heard only by a grand jury is referred to in a decision published earlier this month.
“I also told him [Mr. Rana] … how I had been asked to perform espionage work for ISI,” Mr. Headley, a Pakistani-American, testified to the grand jury.
Though cryptic, the statement is highly significant.
Having turned FBI informer in a bid to escape the death penalty, Mr. Headley will reveal the blow-by-blow of the Mumbai massacre surveillance scheme when he gives evidence against Mr. Rana.
That testimony should include the specifics on how Mr. Headley anglicized his Pakistani name, cultivated ties with LeT, videotaped sites in Mumbai, and briefed his handlers in Pakistan in the run-up to the carnage.
Speaking about how he entered India under a “false flag” to scout out targets, Mr. Headley told the grand jury that “I told [Mr. Rana] about my assignment to conduct surveillance in Mumbai. … I explained to him that the immigration office would provide a cover story for why I was in Mumbai.”
Though Mr. Rana is a Canadian citizen, for years he has been the proprietor of First World Immigration Services, a consultancy based in a South Asian enclave of Chicago.
Mr. Rana has been struggling to explain away allegations that he gave Mr. Headley the papers that allowed him to pose as an immigration consultant. According to recent filings, Mr. Rana argues he is a Pakistani patriot who was** led to believe **the ISI wanted his help – and therefore he should get the equivalent of diplomatic immunity.

On April 1, Judge Harry Leinenweber ruled that that defence to be “objectively unreasonable.”
“Defendant’s proposed defence is that his alleged illegal acts of providing material support to terrorists – at least those related to the Mumbai attacks – were done at the behest of the Pakistani government and the ISI, not the Lashkar terrorist organization,” reads the decision. “He argues that he is entitled to a public-authority defence because he acted under the authority – whether actual or apparent – of the Pakistani government and the ISI.”
Prosecutors also say they caught Mr. Rana and Mr. Headley on tape after the Mumbai attacks, discussing a plot to kill a Danish cartoonist who had lampooned the Prophet Mohammed.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/americas/accused-in-india-massacre-claims-ties-to-pakistani-secret-service/article1981052/
[/QUOTE]

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Going by past record, I don't think any amount of proof would be good enough. That being said, Headley has been singing in US custody and not Indian which makes it slightly more "independent".

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Not sure whose past record you are referring to, since I usually avoid the usual political pissing contests :) However, Going by past record of providing proof, there is probably not going to be any good proof.

I fully believe that intelligence agencies around the world are involved in all kinds of stuff, so I am no ISI fan boy not open to the idea that the agency or some elements within it could be involved in dodgy stuff. I just dont think what is shown above is proof.

Independent or not, it appears that was a defense line they were taking to get some sort of 'protection' as the article itself notes.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

If a point can be important and moot at the same time, this qualifies.

Very few people have any doubts about ISI's involvement in this heinous act of terror. So further proving is just moot.

At the same time, I guess it is important to ensure this sort of development gets widely published so that ISI is pressured to deist from repeating these.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

By the same token, 'people' have few doubts about involvement of RAW in all kinds of acts of terror in Pakistan, so i guess further proving there is just moot too, since you know..'people' have few doubts. Point being 'people' are a pretty bad gauge of reality, at one time in town many people believed Saddam was behind 9/11 for example. now he was a jackass extra ordinaire, but he had nothing to do with that.

Look, again, not an ISI fanboy here, but the issue with publicizing this sort of development is that if Headley and Rana's claims cant be substantiated than there goes the whole pressure.

find a strong proof, and put a stop to any hanky panky by ISI or any rogue elements there, more power to you, but this sort of mickey mouse, so and so claimed so it must be true, does not add up, and has the counter effect of making an argument lose its strength

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Even Pakistanis don't really believe in RAW involvement ....some just say it to keep arguing a point (present company included :) )

Seriously, do you think RAW is so powerful and efficient that they can wreak the kind of frequent havoc that happens in Pakistan? A bomb every week? No Indian institution is anywhere near that capable.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Proof what proof! Oh Rana Shana said that is proof, big big proof... Now if Rana Shana said anything bout Indian terrorism in Baluchistan then it is a lie a big fat lie just like wiki lie.... You see case solved.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

do I think that? No I think Pakistan and India have both plenty of their problems and pointing at each other only goes so far. Present company included or excluded, I personally am not too invested in what happens in that region. I saw weak argument that because an accused dude claims he thought he was reporting to someone because someone led him to believe that, as some sort of rock solid proof, I just had to bust out some logic.

Now since you asked for my view about RAW, I think its a bunch of inefficient ass clowns not in any way capable of orchestrating everything that happens in Pakistan.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

I have some question for Indians to Answer
why you Indians havent shown a single of other 9 Terrorists did they vanished when they were killed in every video which Ajmal Kasab is actually standing Man even I can make a person stand in front of camera ask him to act because I have 50 Gunmen pointing at him that if he move I will kill him

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Not sure if you really are naive or just pretending to be :) I am talking about Pakistan's past record. The same proof that was provided to Pak was also provided to US & UK, however Pak was the only one that came back claiming that the proof was not good enough.

I agree with La Parisienne here - this is probably a moot point. Publicizing this issue and putting pressure on ISI is probably the best strategy here.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

have you been living under a rock or you just forgot? I have seen several videos of the others in action, not just kasab. kasab was the only sob that was captured alive - the others were killed and there have been some pictures

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

o really show me those video why dont Indian media till now haven shown pic of other 9 terrorist sir i have seen video of every indian channel I havent found one they only show kasab every time and mostly standing or there is a video in which two are walking butt not firing

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

Google videos/pics from Nov 2008. Most news channels were showing pics/bodies of the killed terrorists.

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

yes really!

and, I have no interest in doing your searching for something as obvious as this for you. Just do your googling and when you have convinced yourself that they are all fake videos then may be the discussion can get interesting :)

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

So when some Pakistanis do not believe RAW is not involved, they are credible, and those who believe RAW s involved are not credible. Point well taken. ;)

Do you really believe ISI would be involved in such an event?

How is that RAW is so "weak" and ISI is sooooooo "strong"? Do you see your argument can easily be flipped backward?

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

^ yes - radical elements in ISI continue supporting outfits they nurtured such as taleban and l.e.t, regardless of the Pag govt saying stop.
& yes, ISI being part of Pak military, which is the real power in Pakistan as opposed to India where civilian govt has the power

Re: Accused in India massacre claims ties to Pakistani secret service

^:smack:

You are going in to tangential discussion.

I just said, anyhing you said in above thread (s) can be said opposite way with opposite arguments.

So what is the real point?

How can one be sure, RAW is not part and not controlling Indian Govt.?

OR

Are you saying RAW works independantly of Indian Govt.?

Saying someting a milllion time does not make it truth.