Abortion is legal?

According to this news item, a Saudi shariah court gave a very mild response to a forced abortion, which means that killing of foetus is not a capital punishment. There are two questions which need to be answered (1) abortion is legal? and (2) Imam’s are above the law?

http://www.jang.com.pk/thenews/sep2005-daily/09-09-2005/main/main17.htm

Saudi court verdict appals other judges

  • Our special correspondent*

ISLAMABAD: A Shariah court judge in Saudi Arabia has issued a controversial verdict in a case involving a woman whose husband, an Imam of a mosque, had resorted to abortion pills and also physical assault to end her pregnancy, Saudi press reported.

The ruling by a judge in the Riyadh district court was that the husband should repent and seek Allah’s forgiveness for his deceitful act. The wife was shocked by the verdict. Other judges and lawyers were appalled as well. The woman said she would appeal against it. She wants the court to punish her husband for the crimes he has committed against her.

In her lawsuit, the 25-year-old woman described the Imam as the first man in her life. She said she did not know much about her husband except that he works as an Imam of a mosque in Riyadh. She was encouraged to accept him and be his second wife only because he was an Imam.

“Although he was always busy with his first wife and children I never thought of deserting him because he was the first man in my life,” she said. But these feelings didn’t last long because of his maltreatment. She described her life after marriage. “He ordered me not to tell anyone in the neighbourhood that I am his wife or even utter his name. He totally neglected me to the extent that I had to ask the driver to get me breakfast in Ramadan from one of the charities in the neighbourhood.”

She said when he came to know she was in her third month of pregnancy, he told her to get an abortion. On hearing this, she fled to her family in Tabuk. After a few days he came all the way to Tabuk to apologize for his misconduct. He promised he would change his ways and convinced her to accompany him to Riyadh.

When they arrived in Riyadh, she was surprised to find that he had rented a small flat one room and a toilet on the roof of a building, for her. “From the moment we arrived in Riyadh, he started mistreating me and exerting great pressure on me to terminate my pregnancy,” she said adding, “When I refused, he resorted to a trick. He replaced the pills prescribed by the doctor with others that induce abortion.” The abortion pills affected her health. “Because of the new pills I developed some complications like difficulty in breathing. This compelled him to take me to a hospital where he was told the baby was all right but its heartbeat was weak.”

She said: “Despite this, he pressed for my discharge under the pretext that he would take me to another hospital. The doctor agreed to discharge me after he signed an undertaking relieving the hospital from any responsibility in case I developed any complications.”

Then came the gruesome part. “Instead of taking me to another hospital, he took me to the tiny flat and there he exercised all the acrobat drills he could muster and jumped on my abdomen until he killed the foetus. I was bleeding and in hospital the doctors operated on me to clean the uterus and stop the haemorrhage,” the woman said.

More suffering was to come for the woman. She said: "Immediately after I was discharged from the hospital, he divorced me and sent me back to my family. She said despite the evident physical and psychological damage he had caused her, the verdict was very lenient as if he had not committed any crime that necessitated punishment

Re: Abortion is legal?

yeah abortion is not allowed in islam...

Re: Abortion is legal?

the answers:
1) abortion is not allowed (under normal circumstances)
2) no, imams r not above the law

Re: Abortion is legal?

I think, abortion is allowed upto the 120th day, when the baby has a soul at that point, right? and afterwards only if there's danger of her dying? Other htan that, ti wud be a sin. At least this is what i'e always read. Sme1 corrct me if i'm wrong. But what hte imam did... that's horrible. People like him give imams a bad name :(

Re: Abortion is legal?

"Instead of taking me to another hospital, he took me to the tiny flat and there he exercised all the acrobat drills he could muster and jumped on my abdomen until he killed the foetus. I was bleeding and in hospital the doctors operated on me to clean the uterus and stop the haemorrhage," the woman said.

Horrible!

Unbelievable they just let him go without any real punishment!

Re: Abortion is legal?

abortion is only allowed in islam if there are some complications in pregnancy, otherwise abortion is not allowed in islam it is like a murder of one innocent life......

Re: Abortion is legal?

The man is a horrible individual to have made his wife go through so much torture and trouble. It's sad to see how he got off the hook so easily.

I must say the story seems fishy. The correspondent's name wasn't given and I wonder if it's been out in the Arab media. Only that would sort of assure the validity of this story. In any case, if it happens to be a true story, strict action needs to be taken against the husband for physically and emotionally abusing his wife who he very conveniently divorced shortly after. I'm appalled to say the least.

Re: Abortion is legal?

Its a really weird story indeed. The facts just don't fit. Why did he take a second wife, when he was planning on treating her like crap? And the fact he doesn't want any kids from her...

I dont get it, really. It could be a made-up propoganda story, IMHO.

Re: Abortion is legal?

but i dont doubt that this sort of things happen. it is just because of making the religion into a bunch of rituals that has caused this to happen. i mean when has it ever happened that the prophet SAW or any sahabi had to ever deal with this kind of issue? i am sure there is no precedent like that from that time. i also heard a news of how a member of the kuwaiti islamic board or something came back from hajj and suspected his daughter of illicit sexual relations and then bound her and slaughtered her in front of his whole family. and later on the medical tests showed that she was a virgin. it is just sick. that person probably was a hafidh of quran and hadith and all. probably prayed for hours at night. but it was probably like the jews, the ritual implementation of islam. jews made the religion like a ritual and that is why we find the message of Jesus AS to be about the cure of the heart. same is needed in our society. rituals are practiced but the spirit of islam is absent. and we know from history that once rituals are seperated from spirit what happens. jews got so fanatical that they started killing prophets. they killed Yahya using a saw, and beheaded zakaria AS. the blood of zakaria AS was splashed all over the temple yet the jews did not care. they killed many other prophets without remorse. some reports indicate once they killed 300 prophets in one day (never read it but heard it from a person who is a student of knowledge) so i m not surprised, when people can kill prophets of Allah a single unborn baby is entirely possible to be killed too.

Re: Abortion is legal?

Jang Group (News) is a well established Pakistan group, it's very unlikely they would print unsubstantiated news reports. If this story was not true, then the Saudi's and their immensly well endowed supporters wud come down like a brick, which they have not till date.

Verdict was delivered by a Shariah court, thus the question whether abortion is legal under Islamic jurisprudence. Iam no fan of the misogynistic Saudi clergy, but these guys are supposed to be well versed in their trade and are known to follow the book literally. Thus the question, does Islamic jurisprudence permit abortion?

Re: Abortion is legal?

No news group is 100% honest, and no news group will give you 100% of details.

Have you found a similar reporting in any of the Saudi papers/channels?

Re: Abortion is legal?

True. To be honest I did not look elsewhere for corroboration for the simple reason, Jang group like other Paki print groups usually does not make mistakes when it comes to the Saudis. Will research and report later. Till then, can we take this to be correct.

Re: Abortion is legal?

No, till then, the story has to be treated as doubtful, simply because it seems highly extreme.

Re: Abortion is legal?

Yes, abortion is allowed under certain circumstances, but not in a manner that was carried out by this man.

Re: Abortion is legal?

did not even hear of this story....
newspapers will write anything these days to sell a few more copies....

Re: Abortion is legal?

:rotfl:

Re: Abortion is legal?

consider this, what if it’s true?

Re: Abortion is legal?

thats your choice, I have a different opinion based on a history of extreme practices followed and propagated by these fanatics.

Re: Abortion is legal?

**Please refer to the part where practice of Al-Mesyar is discussed, this is possibly the reason why the husband was reluctant to entertain any longterm relationship with this women. **

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2000/nea/817.htm

Saudi Arabia
Country Reports on Human Rights Practices
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
February 23, 2001
Discrimination Against Women.
RESPECT FOR HUMAN RIGHTS

Section 5 Discrimination Based on Race, Sex, Religion,
Disability, Language, or Social Status

There is legal and systemic discrimination based on sex and religion. The law forbids discrimination based on race, but not nationality. The Government and private organizations cooperate in providing services for the disabled. The Shi’a religious minority suffers social, legal, and sectarian discrimination.

Women

The Government does not keep statistics on spousal abuse or other forms of violence against women. However, **based on the information available regarding physical spousal abuse and violence against women, such violence and abuse appear to be common problems. Hospital workers report that many women are admitted for treatment of injuries that apparently result from spousal violence. **Some foreign women have suffered physical abuse from their Saudi husbands. A Saudi man may prevent his wife and any child or unmarried adult daughter from obtaining an exit visa to depart the country (see Section 2.d.). Foreign embassies continued to receive many reports that employers abuse foreign women working as domestic servants. Some embassies of countries with large domestic servant populations maintain safehouses to which their citizens may flee to escape work situations that include forced confinement, withholding of food, beating and other physical abuse, and rape. Often the reported abuse is at the hands of female citizens. In general the Government considers such cases family matters and does not intervene unless charges of abuse are brought to its attention. It is almost impossible for foreign women to obtain redress in the courts, due to the courts’ strict evidentiary rules and the women’s own fears of reprisals. Few employers have been punished for such abuses. There are no private support groups or religious associations to assist such women.

By religious law and social custom, women have the right to own property and are entitled to financial support from their husbands or male relatives. However, women have few political or social rights and are not treated as equal members of society. There are no active women’s rights groups. Women legally may not drive motor vehicles and are restricted in their use of public facilities when men are present. Women must enter city buses by separate rear entrances and sit in specially designated sections. Women risk arrest by the Mutawwa’in for riding in a vehicle driven by a male who is not an employee or a close male relative. **Women are not admitted to a hospital for medical treatment without the consent of a male relative. **By law and custom, women may not undertake domestic or foreign travel alone (see Section 2.d.). In 1999 the Ministry of Interior announced that preparations were underway to issue identity cards to women, which would have been a step toward allowing women to establish independent legal identities from men. However, the Ministry announced in August that the current identification document system for women would be maintained for another 3 years, and that identity cards therefore would not be issued.

Women also are subject to discrimination under Shari’a as interpreted in Saudi Arabia, which stipulates that daughters receive half the inheritance awarded to their brothers. In a Shari’a court, the testimony of one man equals that of two women (see Section 1.e.). **Although Islamic law permits polygyny, with up to four wives, it is becoming less common due to demographic and economic changes. Islamic law enjoins a man to treat each wife equally. In practice such equality is left to the discretion of the husband. Some women participate in Al-Mesyar (or “short daytime visit”) marriages, in which the women relinquish their legal rights to financial support and nighttime cohabitation. Additionally, the husband is not required to inform his other wives of the marriage, and any children resulting from such a marriage have no inheritance rights.**The Government places greater restrictions on women than on men regarding marriage to non-Saudis and non-Muslims (see Section 1.f.). While Shari’a provides women with a basis to own and dispose of property independently, women often are constrained from asserting such rights because of various legal and societal barriers, especially regarding employment and freedom of movement.

Re: Abortion is legal?

children resulting from any sort of marriage have inheritance rights....
and in mesyar man is still responsible for financial support....

just that the wife, if she accepts it, does not get the right of the husband sleeping with her....
this happens usually when the man marries a woman who is not in the area of his residence and hence it is not possible for a man to visit her on daily basis....

but who bothers to go thru all these issues....
we just need something to start screaming against the molvis....