Abortion....."Evil" or "Woman's Right"?

Lifestyle Relationships
1

This debate over abortion is not new to us. From coast to coast, people are engaged in a deafening argument over abortion. It is a touchy subject and since it involves morals and personal choices, I couldn’t do a paper on it in my senior composition class. Most American women are pro life; even in the case of rape victims they are force to keep the child and then to give him/her up for adoption after birth. It wasn’t till “Roe VS Wade” (I think, If I remember correctly) that abortions were legalized in the 70’s. I want to get some “Desi” people’s opinions and viewpoints on this matter. Since to my knowledge if a girl becomes pregnant due to pre-martial sex in our culture her parents and family force her to waste the child. But then on the other hand I have known people that would get abortions only because they wanted to have a male child, so the mother conceived multiple times, and tired to get a baby boy (even till her 20th week she would wait to see what the baby’s sex was).

Personally I would get abortion in the case of rape. Or even for teenage girls that get pregnant during premarital sex when their birth control pills and condoms fail to do their job. Why would she want to bring a child in the world when she cannot even support him/her? Does she really want to give the child up for adoption, so that years later she regrets it when the child suddenly reappears on her doorsteps?

As being part of our desi culture over the years I have heard stories of abortions and women wasting their child, so now it doesn’t sound evil to me. I believe if a child can live outside the woman’s womb (after 5 months) then if she tries to get it aborted its murder, but before that since the child cannot survive without the womb. I think a woman has the ”right” to do what ever she wants with her body.

DMPM=Desi Moti Punjabi Murgee…
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

2

[quote]

But then on the other hand I have known people that would get abortions only because they wanted to have a male child, so the mother conceived multiple times, and tired to get a baby boy (even till her 20th week she would wait to see what the baby's sex was).

[/quote]

this is sheer ignorance. denial of the blessing of Allah almighty. So wrong behavior. i can just condemn this act of ppl.

Btw ive seen and heard abt the technology, that you can choose the sex of the baby yourself, well dont know much abt it. but is there..

[quote]

Personally I would get abortion in the case of rape. Or even for teenage girls that get pregnant during premarital sex when their birth control pills and condoms fail to do their job. Why would she want to bring a child in the world when she cannot even support him/her? Does she really want to give the child up for adoption, so that years later she regrets it when the child suddenly reappears on her doorsteps?

[/quote]

for rape. its a justified reason. but for premarital sex , the reason cannot be jstified why ...

After committing a sin, you are again doing sin to cover it up. This is what happens in Pakistan.

we know that it hurts when our hand touches a hot thing or fire, but still we play with it,a nd we get injury, we shoudlnt complain.

[quote]

As being part of our desi culture over the years I have heard stories of abortions and women wasting their child, so now it doesn’t sound evil to me. I believe if a child can live outside the woman’s womb (after 5 months) then if she tries to get it aborted its murder, but before that since the child cannot survive without the womb. I think a woman has the ”right” to do what ever she wants with her body.

[/quote]

sorry, i dont agree here. What you have been hearing about the culture is not about the house wifes. this thing has been done in past and right now, only for girls who are indulged in adultry.

a women has right, to do what ever she want with her to do with the body. but that right must should always been utilized before indulging into the act. after you are done with it. bear the consequences or one might call it punishment.

abortion could be utilized to cope medcial complications, to save the life of mother. in rape case also.

This is not a simple act. one should decide about it first, before going for sex.

abortion might be usefull and justified in few cases, but you cannot generalize this whole idea. Generalization of such things leads to disaster and inpuryt and publicy of sin in the culture and society. if abortion is legitimate in our society, then every couple will go for illegitimate sex, and wont even think abt later consequences.

restrictions in a fair way are always usefull, unbounded freedom leads to disaster.

Khush naseeb insaan woh hai jo apne naseeb per khush rahay.

ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻝﻮﺳ ﺮﻟﺍ ﺪﻤﺤﻣ ﻪﻠﻠﻟﺍ ﻪﻟﺍ ﻻ

3

Okay fine! I agree with some part you have tried to rationalize, but why punish the child? Why try to decide his/her fate by bringing him/her into this world? Wouldn't the child feel bad when he/she discovers that they weren't concieved in "love"?

DMPM=Desi Moti Punjabi Murgee....
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

4

[quote]
Originally posted by LahoriMaharani:
Okay fine! I agree with some part you have tried to rationalize, **but why punish the child? Why try to decide his/her fate by bringing him/her into this world? Wouldn't the child feel bad when he/she discovers that they weren't concieved in "love"?

**
[/quote]

**
my point is, decide before the sex. do not kill the baby.. if you dont want the baby, dont go for the sex.
**

and well ok, now the discussion is moving toward another social problem. that is of fatherless childs..

This problem is also linkes with other problems in the culture and society. In Pakistan we still have very low ratio of such childs.. almost ilnegligible.

but in west, due to ppl dont beleive in marriage, homosexuality etc. that leads to the social corruption. no rights for such children. etc

i beleive Islam has provided the very rational, and logical solution to this problem. The illegitimate sex is the root cause of these all problems and complciations. thats why its not allowed.

it is a proven fact, that if you commit a simple sin, you keep on getting involved in another related problem/sin and this goes on, like a chain reaction.

Khush naseeb insaan woh hai jo apne naseeb per khush rahay.

ﻪﻠﻟﺍ ﻝﻮﺳ ﺮﻟﺍ ﺪﻤﺤﻣ ﻪﻠﻠﻟﺍ ﻪﻟﺍ ﻻ

5

agar ikhlaq itna hee gir chuka hai and u think adultery is something less SIN than killing then atleast try using condoms…
or is that against rights too…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

6

Who can you justify it as killing when its just a bunch of cells during the 1st month?

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

DMPM=Desi Moti Punjabi Murgee…
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

7

Evil or Women's Right?

Neither, because its very circumstantial (eg rape, medical reasons). Although economic and selfish reasons would not, in my opinion, justify the act. Like I learnt from a close friend, people will come into the clinic simply because they are not emotionally or financially prepared for a child. This is in the case of the majority.

"Genuine" cases are few and far between.

8

"Evil or a Woman right?"
It's a very good question,and one that no woman wants to deal with but has to if she is faced with it.

I have had the experience of seeing abortion,rape,and miscarriage......
I dont know if i have the Intellectual or Mature point of view,but will give my insight on the matter.....

When i was a teenager i had a close friend.She 'Played with the fire,many times' and knew there was always the possibility that it might happen,but most people in those situations think that it can't happen to them...they are too cautious.But it does happen, and did in her case.
So she was faced with the option of keeping or aborting.It was a terrible time for her..she would cry and think the worst about herself..why? why couldnt i just be one of those girls who can't get pregnant?

Why did God do this to me..is he paying me back?Doesn't he know that my parents will kill me when they find out?
In the end,she decided to have the abortion,i went with her to the clinic the day of the abortion.She was scared and almost changed her mind at the last minute.She was made to watch a movie before the process,showing what all would be done during the procedure.It rips the heart out to see such things,yet she still went through with it.I sat out in the waiting room,watching each young girl and older women,coming in filling out the papers,waiting their turn.I felt odd sitting there,as if they were thinking that one so young would be doing the same,yet i thanked God inside it wasn't.
My friend was sore for a few days afterward,and said that she felt it was the right thing to do,but she still dealt with the guilt of it for years to come.
Now for her,it was not a situation of sadness,as it is for some rape victims.I have mentioned before on here that i was such a victim,and am thankful that God protected me from such a decision in the end.But i have thought on this.Would i have kept the child if i had gotten pregnant. This is no easy question.The thoughts that race throught the mind are delirious.Black sheep of the family,or worse death,status and friends,change in life completely...no one wants a pregnant friend,crying all night,feedings,money for supplies...the thoughts and scare of it is endless.
In my youth and even though i sat in the abortion clinic scared,and could hear the chanting of the protesters outside....i may of done the same as my friend. But in the end,had it happened to me...i know i would of kept the child.I couldn't handle the thought that it wasn't the childs fault that it was conceived.I was raised to beleive that ,God only gives us what he thinks we can handle.Yet i know there is a strange twist to that.How about the woman who has 4 children,everyone thinks she is a good mom,then she goes off and kills them all one day.I dont think she was able to handle it.
I had a miscarriage....i felt the awfulness as the doctor had me lay down and he used a sucking machine to make sure nothing of the baby or placenta was left in me. I felt like death that day,why did God take away the gift he had given or wasn't i worthy enough?
I was mad at God for quite some time.But in my later years,and as life proceeded i see that had that child been born (male),my now ex-husband would have used him in a divorce battle. Still, i think on that little innocent one.He was not just a group of molecules...or a thing.He was a life,created by out creator.I treasure the thought of him and how someday insha'allah i will get to see him in heaven.

I judge not,lest i be judged.Each one of us cannot live in anothers footsteps or be faced with the same decisions as another.What we can be is a supporter.For we all must face ALLAH and be judged.Life is a lesson...we all are learning...and althought we may make the wrong decisions...none of us are perfect.....

these are just my insight and how i see it...and does not express everyones views...
9

Chris thats beautiful thanx for sharing it

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Sugar, spice 'n all things nice

10

Yes But are all abortions 4 weeks old ?

And WHAT IS WRONG IN DOINGAWAY WITH few minutes of Orgasm,sexual pleasure or DONT HAVE SE#X if you are not ready to have child.

What next …you do away with all responsibility ,duty, & committment b/c its not FUN

Mausam Ke Tarah Tum Bhi Badal tou Naa Jao Ge

11

A definite "Right"... but not if the fetus has completely developed.

You can only paint with the colors you're given...
...so get what you like and like what you have.

[This message has been edited by pakistan99 (edited May 28, 2002).]

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http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

COuldn’t have said it any better flamezz

** Mu Hu Hahahahahaha!**:hoonh:
"Quote the Mu,“NeverMu!”
Yeh Duniya Doh Rangi Ajab Iski Baatein
Agar Pyar Maango toh Hasrat Millegi
Chaman Zindagi ke Hazaaron Killeinge
Magar Eik Dil ki Kali Nah Kiley Gi

13

FlamZz You can't justfiy sex as the ultimate root of all problems. Sex doesn't create problems, people do......It is similar by sayin....Guns don't kill people; People kill people.....Think about it....

Nisa......If you can't feed the child then why bring him/her into this world....

Cris Wow your story left me speechless....

Semi Not all abortions are 4 weeks, but the clinice only does it uptill the 20th week which I think adds upto about 5 months....It is not killing as I mentioned earlier If the baby can't survive or shall I say fetus cannot survive outside the mothers womb then nope it is her RIGHT to do whatever she pleases.......because that fetus is a part of her body.......And Oh! sex is not always done to create life.....God wouldn't have given us the pleasure if he didn't want us to experience those intimate moments....Think about it....

** Pakistan** I wholly agree with your point.......

Mrs.ATA
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

14

[quote]
Originally posted by LahoriMaharani:
***Nisa......If you can't feed the child then why bring him/her into this world....*
[/quote]

Thats a reason I could understand if one was living beneath the poverty threshold in the sub-saharan terrain without adequate acess to food and water, let alone the means to provide for themselves and their children(although perhaps the irony is that people living in these conditions are likely to have more children than they can sustain). But otherwise...? It would seem it is just a matter of (in)convenience.

[This message has been edited by Khairun Nisa (edited May 28, 2002).]

15

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by LahoriMaharani:
**FlamZz You can’t justfiy sex as the ultimate root of all .

"Semi Not all abortions are 4 weeks, but the clinice only does it uptill the 20th week which I think adds upto about 5 months…It is not killing as I mentioned earlier If the baby can’t srvive or shall I say fetus cannot survive outside the mothers womb then nope it is her RIGHT to do whatever she pleases…because that fetus is a part of her body…And Oh! sex is not always done to create life…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nah.gif

“..God wouldn’t have given us the pleasure if he didn’t want us to experience those intimate moments…Think about it…”

Lahorie

YOU COME FROM A MUSLIM SOCIETY BUT TALK LIKE materialistic melting nuclear family of post industrial revolution

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rotato.gif

YOUR LOGIC IS UPSIDE DOWN.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nook.gif

YOU THINK PLEASURE IN SEX WAS GIVEN.. NOT FOR REPRODUCTION

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

IF THERE WAS NO PLEASURE IN IT NO LIVING ORGANISM OF BIOLOGICAL PRODUCTION WOULDNT MATE !!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

SO YES reproduction is the purpose & goal of sex thats why biogically there is sperm & ovum.Care to explain why god put this in the sex act .???

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/confused.gif

You can plan family by not having sex or using protection but you cannot irresponsibly use abortion to plan your family b/c many babies who have intra uterine diseases are saved by treatnment JUST LIKE HUMAN BEING & cured of illness with great expense to make the foetus well & alive .IF we treat foetus like human by health care system …THENjust like homicide or euthenesia ,under present moral laws of our society it is wrong to kill yourself even if your life ,you think is part soley of you .BUT IT ISN’t

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/nah.gif

Mausam Ke Tarah Tum Bhi Badal tou Naa Jao Ge

[This message has been edited by Semipresciousme (edited May 28, 2002).]

16

Semi sweetie…
This is a fact now remember it…

ONLY HUMANS AND DOLPHINS get sexualy pleasure while mating…(Correct me if I am wrong but to my knowledge the fact above is right!)

So yes…God did probably want humans to experience that pleasure besides making love just for reproduction…And I do not come from a muslim society…I was brough up in a different one…“American”…Maybe I am materialistic but what is wrong with that? Yeah you can call it selfish but still isn’t not murder if the fetus can’t survive outside the womb…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/rolleyes.gif

Mrs.ATA
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

17

Someone once told me that men are anti-abortion (usually) because they don't have to live with the resulting child... whereas women have a point of view that is more middle ground... I wonder if that's true of the people on this discussion?

18

Well it would seem like it......There justifications are not based on personal views but on religion and other cultural traditions..........

Mrs.ATA
Maharani jee di JAY HO!

19

[quote]
Originally posted by Shirin:
*Someone once told me that men are anti-abortion (usually) because they don't have to live with the resulting child... whereas women have a point of view that is more middle ground... I wonder if that's true of the people on this discussion? *
[/quote]

Sweet Shirin

Men don’t really understand the bond between a mother and her child. Neither do they realize the tremendous amount of work and hardship it takes to bring a child into this world.

Abortion is evil but I believe we should not condemn woman who undergo it.

20

Does anyone have any statistics on why women go through abortion?! How many % are rape victims? How many are teenagers not wanting one? How many go through it due to medical reasons as advised by the doctor?

Anyone?

I am pro-life. If I do not have the right to kill my child when he is a day old, I don't have the right to take away his/her life when he/she is conceived. It's not about the right of the woman its about the right of the baby.

The only one reason where I can think of abortion is doctor advised medical reason where the life of mother is in danger.