Aborting a baby

Lifestyle Relationships
21

Re: Aborting a baby

The situation that MiainVa described is sad and unwarranted.

But what about the other situation where the couple was close to divorce? If done before 4 months, is it really that evil a thing to do? I don't disagree with the reasoning the family used.

22

Re: Aborting a baby

As unfortunate as it sounds princess, in my book its a horrible thing. If a divorce is done before 4 months, it means that act of sex took place about 4 to 4 1/2 month before divorce. In 90% of the cases, divorce circumstances dont pop up over night. If couple was feeling that things are going south, cant they keep their hands off each other till the relationship takes a certain shape.

and if they cant take their hands off each other then its not the fault of that unborn, is it? Why should he/she be killed for that?

23

Re: Aborting a baby

  1. No one “forced” the wife to have an abortion. The husband did not drag her into the clinic and strap her down on the table for the abortion. They probably has arguments over it and my guess is that the husband probably threatened divorce if she did not get an abortion. The bottom line is that none of us know what happened between the husband and wife behind closed doors and what words were spoken between them. But regardless, the wife CHOSE to have an abortion. If the wife was truly against the abortion, she could’ve walked out of her marriage, moved out, and kept the baby. But she did not. For whatever reason, the wife choose her marriage/husband over the baby.

This is an adult couple making a life changing decision. You and other people don’t have to agree with it…but you do need to respect it. The decision for the abortion was made MUTUALLY by the couple…the husband told the wife to hav an abortion…the wife walked into a clinic, made an appt, and got it done. The wife obviously is not ready to be a divorced, single mother living in Pakistan.

  1. MIAinVA: I agree with your husband. As horrified as you may be at their decision…at the end of the day, it is THEIR decision. Their life, their marriage. This is between the husband and wife and Allah. By talking to the husband, you could be making the situation much worse for the wife. The husband could easily become emotionally/verbally/or even physically abusive towards his wife if he discovers that she is “bad-mouthing” him to the rest of the family. (and yes, the husband WILL see this as his wife “bad mouthing” him). If things escalate, he could even divorce her. Obviously the wife does not want a divorce…b/c otherwise she could’ve chosen to walk out of the marriage.

In addition, I’m sure that the wife did not want/expect the MIL to share this very personal matter with you. So if the wife finds out that the MIL shared this with you…then that may cause rifts between the wife and the MIL. Bottom line is that YOU getting involved in this situation will not have any positive outcome. Focus on your own marriage and your own pregnancy.

24

Re: Aborting a baby

How is one forced to abort. unless you walked in and half heartily agreed to the decision. Shouldn't she talked to her MIL before it happened? I know plently of women that have gone through a similar situation but they have to be honest that they didn't want their husbands to resent them and whether they thought it was religiously the right thing to do

[QUOTE]
They were born and raised and live in Pakistan by the way (before ppl start blaming the west for this) and are moderately religious people, the couple even did an Umrah recently......
[/QUOTE]

I don't know what living in Pakistan has to do with it. Abortions are performed in every part of Pakistan an unfortunately in very unhygienic conditions and in the most religious and traditional settings.

25

Re: Aborting a baby

very well said no matter how much control the husband has on the wife it is the wife that goes into that clinic to make have that abortion

26

Re: Aborting a baby

Yes, I agree with that. But there are always multiple ways of looking at things. Let's say this was one of those 10% of cases and involved something big like cheating by one of the partners. They probably thought that it's best for the child to not arrive at all than to have divorced parents right from the beginning of his/her life who would most likely hate each other for at least a few years until the divorce is a fresh memory. This hate would reflect on the child too. This is not to say that they didn't do it for themselves as well. It would be easier to get remarried as a divorcee than as a divorcee with a child. Furthermore, we can always make arguments about when a fetus is 'human' enough and so on.

But still I understand your view since you have children of your own. I think it takes being a parent to truly understand the gravity of such a choice and I'm not there yet, hence perhaps limited in my view.

27

Re: Aborting a baby

Princess, Quran saysthat a 40 days old fetus gets a soul in him/her - so that is a murder from Islamic stand point.

28

Re: Aborting a baby

in my opinion abortion is wrong....but what about those women who take the "morning after pill"....isnt that the same thing? and some arguments even say that the contraceptive pill works in a similar way by preventing implantation of the fertilised egg....hence isnt that a form of abortion too?

29

Re: Aborting a baby

[QUOTE]
Quran saysthat a 40 days old fetus gets a soul in him/her - so that is a murder from Islamic stand point.
[/QUOTE]

^ so prior to 40 days is not consider murder?

30

Re: Aborting a baby

Abortion is getting rid of a fetus.

whereas morning after pill and contraceptive pill prevent a fetus from ever forming....so if there's no fetus then its not abortion.

31

Re: Aborting a baby

I stand corrected. Then we can change my assumption of 120 days to 40 days and keep the rest of the argument the same.

32

Re: Aborting a baby

One should have a genuine reason before that but yes its not a human with soul prior to that.

One thing I want to clarify, if a birth is dangerous to the mother then abortion is islamically allowed. Zahir (Obvious) takes over Baatin (hiddden) and mother's life takes over the life of unborn child.

33

Re: Aborting a baby

I wish to clarify the 40 day old fetus gets soul myth based on which some say that abortion is permissible for less than 40 days old fetus:

Then we developed the drop into a hanging (embryo), then developed the hanging (embryo) into a bite-size (fetus), then created the bite-size (fetus) into bones, then covered the bones with flesh. We thus produce (Anshaa) a new creature. Most blessed is GOD, the best Creator." [23:14]

In verse 23:14, God described the creation of the human being from a tiny drop until he produced a new creature. The advocates of abortion in the first three months of pregnancy, consider the way God described the production of a new creature in this verse (by using the Arabic word Anshaa) as their proof of the time when the soul joins the body of the fetus. On this basis, they claim that it is OK to kill the fetus before that, since he/she does not have a soul. They are missing many points here. First, abortion has nothing to do with the soul as we explained before. In abortion you kill the physical body of the fetus. You do not and cannot kill the soul. Therefore the time the soul joins the physical body is not important and irrelevant, and God never elaborated on it in the Qur'an. Second, the word (Anshaa), in 23:14, is used exclusively in the Qur'an for the production or construction of a physical being, human or non-human, e.g. the humans, the trees, the clouds, communities etc. Please see 23:14,19,31,42; 6:141; 11:61 and 53:32. This word (Anshaa`) or its derivatives have never been used by God in the Qur'an to describe anything that has to do with the soul. To assure the believers, God used another word (Nafakha) repeatedly to describe the joining of the soul and the physical body. See 3:49, 5:110. 15:29, 21:91, 32:9, 39:72 and 66:12.

The use of the word (Anshaa`) to describe the new creature is referring to the physical body of the developing fetus and not to the soul. The fetus will look completely different then, compared with the way it started as a tiny drop. Check any embryology book to appreciate this vast difference.

Note also that God used the word (Anshaa`) four times in sura 23, to give the sincere believer the clue he/she needs.

The Exception:
As we all know, every rule has an exception including the religious laws. In case of unusual situations, abortion may have to be performed to save the mother’s life. This is permitted, not only during the first three months of pregnancy, but during any time during the pregnancy.

34

Re: Aborting a baby

^Science says that heart starts beating around 40th day so I take the prohibition of abortion after the 40th day over other opinions.

35

Re: Aborting a baby

I am not saying that its permissible before 40 days .. I am saying that its a murder after 40 days ..

In fact I take back my 40 days claim, I apologize. Princess was right, its 120 days when rooh gets into the body

[QUOTE]
Sahi Muslim: Narrated by: Abdullah Bin Mashwood (sws), and Hujaifa Bin Achid (ra) from the saying of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)]: Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) said-every human remains as semen inside the mother’s womb for 40 days. After 40 days semen becomes blood-clot and mother is conceived. Then immediately after mother is conceived, Allah appoints one Farestha (Angel) right near the women’s genital (Vagina) to oversee the continuous development of the whole scenario of birth. That particular Farestha records and informs every bit of development and progress of the embryo-to-baby’s birth. This robotic Angel even tells Allah the movement-paths such as embryo is moved from vagina to uterus, settled there, growing alright etc. etc. And, After 120 days, when baby is full grown, Allah orders that particular selected soul (from the louh-e-Mahfuz) to be taken their to the womb and fix the soul to the fetus only when life starts. .
[/QUOTE]

36

Re: Aborting a baby

i've heard there's ikhtilaf on ruh entering the body after 40 or after 120 days, nonetheless the reason for abortion should be valid.

37

Re: Aborting a baby

totally agree. In fact the reason should be nothing else but to save mothers life.

38

Re: Aborting a baby

Science says an embryo’s heart begins to beat about 18 to 21 days after conception.
For reference see :Fetal development: The first trimester - Mayo Clinic

39

Re: Aborting a baby

hmmmm....what if there are 90% chances of the baby being disable or a still birth?

40

Re: Aborting a baby

I agree to that . Two weeks after conception or 40 days , there should be a valid reason for abortion.