Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Large numbers of Pakistanis both home and abroad seems to be boiling with anger against the West and particularly against the USA. This is all the while USA has not done any thing really terrible to Pakistanis. Sure there are some issues with other Muslim countries and the USA. But as a country-to-country USA has been either an ally or a non-Ally but never an enemy.

Compare this odd Pakistani behavior with that of Vietnamese. Vietnam saw millions of tons of bombs dropped on them by France and then USA. Vietnam also had millions of tons of defoliate material (the chemicals to kill the leaves and in some cases trees). When USA left in the early 70s, Vietnam resembled moonscape, with millions of Vietnamese dead or wounded.

And yet, Vietnam has forgiven USA and moved on. They are friendly to Americans and doing brisk business with the West in all sorts of spheres.

Paul Theroux a travel writer to East Asia attributes this ability to forgive even your most vicious enemy to one thing: Vietnam’s religion of Buddhism.

Come to think of it, Thailand, Laos, and Vietnam are all pretty forgiving countries.

Can Pakistanis learn anything from Vietnamese and acquire the power of forgiveness? Or you all think that our religion will not allow us to emulate the good souls from Vietnam?

Any thoughts?

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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

I am wondering why are you mixing "west" with "USA"? Large number of Pakistanis may be against USA but they are not against all west.

Secondly, I guess you are also mixing "expressive" and "inexpressive". If someone does not express hatred that does not mean that they don't hate anyone. I guess Pakistanis (and in general S. Asians) are more expressive in their hate/love than other ppl/nations

and finally, How can you forget that Pakistanis have forgive GB although they rules us and looted our (S.Asia's) weather for quite some time :)

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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

Did Vietnamese forgave USA while they were busy in killing their women and children or they forgave them after they (Vietnamese) drove them (USA) out of their country?

Thing is, USA is attacking Pakistan every now and then, in result it is natural to have feeling of haterdness against them...

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Would you like to hand Pakistan to USA/India/Israel on a silver platter with a thank you note, for a few quids in return?

You wanna basically forget the pinnacle of Islam that teaches muslims to defend themselves against aggression, and just give in.

Forgiveness is out of the question! We haven't even been able to halt American airstrikes that violate Pakistani sovereignty.

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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

i guess our problem is while USA acting as Pakistan ally and still attacking Pakistan soil, at least Vietnam had all out war with US and defeated them. and I dont think they have forgiven them.

Pakistan has been ally to US, but failed to get an allied response when required by Pakistan. Pakistan US relationship is more of basis of need, and Pakistan has been used by US to do its own dirty trick that came back to haunt both countries now.

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You should read how to keep an idiot busy. :)

Pakistani and Muslims are against Western/USA policies toward Pakistan and Muslim world.

Pakistani and Muslims are not against any American or Western people. There is no hate for American or Europe or any other people.

Are could be some animosity against Hindus in India and Indian government because of Babri Masjid, Killing of innocent Kashmiris and massacre in Gujarat

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Well if it is correct what you say, then how could you explain 1979 events? There was no attack by the USA on Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. And still Paks burned down the American embassy and looted American properties. In reality it was attack by Saudi extremists on Haram Sharif and Paks burned and attacked Americans anyways.

May be so many analysts are like you, who do not Pakistan's history and still want to pass judgments.

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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

its not burqas poltical oppinions which make me want to swear at him, its his attempts to justify wrongs committed against our people. to focus on tepids of information which are now proven propaganda, to focus on post war forgiveness rather then the invasions themselves.

to top it all off the screenname itself is an insult to our religion

ban the ************

Ehsan Uncle tum jiyo hazaro saal - Golden Jubilee
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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

^I agree with you, I guess only reason ppl get points on GS is using obnoxious words.
How ever you could have obnoxious ideas based on ill will against pakistan and you wont have any problem.

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Jevay Jeavy varoom jevay.

So you run out of arguments and start shouting ban him, ban him, burn him at the stake. Wow. Is that the only way medieval "thinkers" react?

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So what explanation do you have for the fact that Al-Qaeda attacked the USA yet you have all these other countries such as the UK, Australia all supporting them. Why did the UK support USA on Iraq?
If Pakistan and the UK go to war the USA will side with the UK.

Answer they will not let their "own" down and nor should we.

The USA is AT WAR with Pakistan - it continually bombs FATA and continually kills innocent people.

Are those people in FATA sub-human? Are they not worthy of their Governments protection?

The reason why the Muslim world dislikes the American Gov is because of its bias against their own Muslim brothers. Afghanistan, Iraq, next Iran? Pakistan?

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TJ bro! you are looking at a very small portion of Pak history and trying to support your hate. As a I said earlier, Pakistanis harbor hate and do not forgive for some reason. Why? I'll repeat what I said earlier.

**Well if it is correct what you say, then how could you explain 1979 events? There was no attack by the USA on Pakistan or Saudi Arabia. And still Paks burned down the American embassy and looted American properties. In reality it was attack by Saudi extremists on Haram Sharif and Paks burned and attacked Americans anyways.

May be so many analysts are like you, who do not Pakistan's history and still want to pass judgments.

**

Punjabi/Urdu/Hindi/Sansikrat
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The question you should be asking before even posting this post or comparing vietnam with pakistan is, how many nations are there against whom Pakistan have these feelings.. No bdy has seen such feeling against Russia, niether we have seen such thing agains France, Germany or Spain for that Matter... People of Pakistan have not shown same feeling for Canada or Japan as well, then why it is that USA is so disliked by Pakistani people..

It is may be.. They promised us a help which they suppose to do in 1971... and the shippment never arrrived or may be because they are meddling in our affair to much...

But a Anaylyst like you is not bothered with all these.. it is like silly american asking a question that why we are the most hated nation on the globe.?

so dear wanna-be analyst.. think before speak/type

Zalim JJ
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I don't know where you live hanibal. FYI in Pakistan every European is on red alert. Embassies in Islamabad are besieged and few European tourists want to go in Pakistani public without a bullet proof car. UNO has cancelled missions, and so have many others. FYI Iran is crying for their diplomat who got kidnapped in Pakistan. Heck even West Indies cricket team is not playing in Pakistan. And you still want to live in a la la land of filled with sewage filled rive called De-nial?

Isn't this madness? Isn't it devastating for Pak economy? That we refuse to forgive and move on? Will we continue destroying our own country brick by brick until we become a ditto copy of Islamic Emirates, or African $hiteholes? What kind of approach is that Mr. thinker?

Accept it that we have lost our human values all thanks to religious fanaticism. Many on this net keep on harping about Palestine, Iraq, and Afghanistan. No one denies that these cesspool of countries are not being wrongly dealt with. But the point is, that must we turn Pakistan into a $hitehole Jihadi infested cave to show our love for Palestine or Iraq or Afghanistan. If you are that freaked out for Palestine, then go there and do something. Why Pakistan has to suffer from the likes of you?

Why can't we learn anything from Buddhist culture?

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*I hope I don't get ban for saying that, but not having shred of decency DOES NOT make you greatest scholar on GS.
I hope you grow out of this phase soon. *

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JK. Do you have anything to add to the thread, or you just want to rely on personal attacks?

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Re: Ability to forgive: Why Vietnam is better than Pakistan

like as I said you cross the limits with every post of yours. In my experience even If I convince you now, in matter of day(if not hrs) you will come back to same point.
It looks like you are driven by some thing other, than a desire to understand!

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So what is your point on this thread?

The only thing you have done is agree with Vroom. That's not convincing anyone but puts you in the room with vroom.

Are you a multi-nick-ed poster? are you Vroom posing as Jimmy? If that's the case, then it is totally against the antiquates of forum postings.

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I think all your information is based on news and article, you have never been in Pakistan and have never seen how Pakistani behave with the foreigners.

As far as iam concerned, i am sure you have no idea what you are talking about. Pakistani People do have hatedness against West specially agains USA, still no civilian on USA has ever got killed or harrased in Pakistan.. I know you will bring the case of Daniel Pearl kind, but for your information only, as it look like you have none... these foreign tourist use to travel in the northern areas of Pakistan, These area includes Sawat, Kaghan etc. In Lahore one can see many of them in Shalimar Garden and Fort of Lahore, i myself have seen few of them at Rohtaas Fort...

But the thing is, you have this wanna-be American, so you are behaving like lame duck. I am sorry for using these terms but there is not other way to talk to silly american.

You are definetly out of your mind.. Buddist culture is strongly associated with their religion... do you want Pakistanies to leave Islam and adopt Buddism or you are saying that Islam is not acceptable for Americans so we should look for alternate religions.

BTW, for your info only, the scene Buddist created during the Olympics 2008 are enough to see how much tolerant they are.

Every thing starts from home, when it comes to tolerance and forgiveness, you urself have issues in it, how can you preach something you don't practice.. It is the perfect example of Hypocracy.

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Many people think that treating the West nicely means we leave our religion. Not sure how this logic comes about.

Turkey and Dubai are two major Muslim areas where governments make more money from tourism and trade than selling petroleum or other natural resources. Both Turkey and Dubai are the tourist Mecca where West and East loves to spend time and enjoy. If these countries have not lost their religion, then how come Pakistani Iman is so weak that it will go out of the window the moment we say Aloha to a non-Muslim?

Looks like Pakistani intellectuals have lost the tolerant spirit of Islam and now they only want to bring medieval dark ages back to life. And unfortunately they have succeeded to a big extent.

p.s. Aloha was used to emphasize on being a welcoming and tolerant host.