Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

^ virtually most of them says quran is 100% right...but in heart belive of a foolish guy who is hiding in a cave of Iraq...for 12 centuries...and shias every 15 shaban gather on night and put letters to this 1200 year old imaginary person ....LILLah ...now come...zahoor...Adrakni adrakni.....and such nonesense.....

and Taqiyya =ghoot=munafiqaat=dhaokai bazi=ghaddari=makkari=ghhotai par khuda ur uus kai rasool ki lanat=and in hadees ...momin can never ever be liaretc
etc.....

so its difficult to deep penetrate into your hearts....

you the same people.....who betrayed muslim ben aqeel when he praying the Magrib namaz in mosque of kufa near zyad palace and when he offered salam ...30 men behind him...already have ran.....and 30,000 bayat him in kufa.....its in all shia history books.....

Makkaro...tumhari makkario ..kai aagai ...barai barai panah mangatai hai...imamhussain ko 18000 khat likh kar aur phir Taqiyya kar kai Shimmar kai saath mil gai.....Tuuf hai tum par...aur tumahari kufio par.....

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

hmm, so first it was Ibne Saba, then it was Quran and now its Taqqiya. I wonder how much humiliation you are going to bring to your self.

hmm,
Narrated in Sahih al-Bukhari, v7, p102, that Abu al-Darda' said:

[quote]
"(Verily) we smile for some people, while our hearts curse (those same people)."
[/quote]

al-Ghazzali wrote in his book, "Ihya `Uloom al-Din," that:

[quote]
Safeguarding of a Muslim's life is a mandatory obligation that should be observed; and that LYING is permissible when the shedding of a Muslim's blood is at stake.
[/quote]

Jalal al-Din al-Suyuti wrote in his book, "al-Durr al-Manthoor Fi al-Tafsir al-Ma'athoor," v2, p176, narrates that:

[quote]
Abd Ibn Hameed, on the authority of al-Hassan, said: "al-Taqiyya is permissible until the Day of Judgment."
[/quote]

be careful before you start sending lanat to someone again. :p

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

How can you call a guy “foolish” whom you havent seen and you dont know? But I have all the rights to call a guy an “extremely foolish” whose actions are recorded in books and who once was putting his hand inside the camel (from its back), and on that he said:

“I’m afraid that someone might ask me what is wrong with you.”
Al-Tabaqat Al Kubra by Ibn Sa’d, Part 3, Page 286

And same “foolish” person was once asking female oriented questions from his own daughter. (Tarikh Khualafa).

Since you Nasibi mullahs have never told you about the difference b.w Taqqiyah and Munafiqat, therefore today you are once again facinf humilation.

The Holy Quran differentiate between Taqqiyah and Munafiqat, now if still someone equalize Taqqiyah to Munafiqat then he his himsef the worst Munafiq and th rejector of Quran which according to your previously cited fatwas is kaafir.

According to Quran, Taqqiyah and Munafiqat are two opposite things. al-
Taqiyya is concealing faith and displaying nonbelief (16:106)(40:28); while Hypocrisy is the concealment of unbelief and the display of belief (2:14).

Btw, you can start new thread about Taqqiyah if you want, because your habit of changing topics within a thread is serving no one.

First of all, if you have an aounce ofshame in you then pelase answer as to why you have harbored people who showed their cowardness and ran away like chikens from the battles leaving Prophet [s] in the battlefield?

And you always bring the topic of the betrayers of Kufa and then get humilated to find that your piooner Imams have accepted hadeeth in their principle books from those betrayers and have deemed them Thiqa.

To aaooo naaa , baahir nikloo, Us Shimer par laanat karo, us lanati shimer say jis lanati firqay nay apnay mazhab ki kitaboon main hadees riwayat ki un par lanat karo ? Imam ko khat likhnay walay Shabis bin Rabi say jis kamzarf insaan nay apni kitaab main riwayat ki us kamzarf par bhi lanat karo aur condemn karo jaisa kay munafiqeen ko condemn karnay ka haq hai.

Aatay ho? Ya saap sun jaiga ab bhi ? Bolna buhut asaan hai, lakin jab jis ko gaali day rahay hoon us kay taanay baanay apnay hi aba jud say nikal ain to condemn karna buhut mushkil hai na?

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

really you guys! i am seeing so sooooo many anti-shia, and shia websites filled with anger and hatred towards sunni's pop up all over!

All of these new facts, all of these myths - they are popping up everyhwere!!!

I hope u all know why! there is millions of dollars being spent of Iraq propaganda! on shia sunni propaganda! After teh Irani revolution, this was put into play, to destroy Islam!
So serioulsy you guys, even if you think all u r doing is getting rid of false myths out there u are just promoting the differences! Just ignore these links! Better yet every chance you get respond with facts about how this is all propaganda!

Let me go find links so u guys will believe me about hte amount of money spent on propaganda! ! or actually that feels like its own topic so i will start a new thread about it i guess!

but as for this jewish person finding shiaism! just please everyone realize its propaganda! and stop the insanity! for our Muslim Brothers and sisters in Iraq, palestine and lebanon! and many others beig so egregiously oppressed and killed all over!

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

why are you so pro-iran...tell me why.....i am telling the truth...many shias are more inclined towards Iran than thier own Pakistan ...why.....

do you not know what is happening in afghanistan !!!!!!
do you not what is happening in kashmir !!!!!!
do you not know what is happening in checniyya !!!!!!
do you not know what is happening in Somalia !!!!!!
do you not know what is happening in Aljazair !!!!!!!

not a single word...from you...about them...why.......!!!!!!!!!

and how many times should i tell you the "Islamic Revolution" of iran real face.....just against the dictatorship of shah-e-iran Muhammad shah Pehlvi.....because he was the "Inspector" of USA in whole gulf area...and due to this...whole irani nation stood against him...in the last few years...mullahs hi-jacked that movement........and atlast Khoeimieni returned from Paris....etc etc....

and then created the pure "Mullah Government "...in which there is no chance for democracy..liberal...and free thinking...on evvery high rank...still in iran...is filled with

*** ayatullah**
**hijatullah*
*** murrajah**
etc etc....

which are the fuqhas and religious leaders...they are judges..they are rectors of universities..they are leaders of banks...evry government institution...what type of revolution is this...for which you are singing songs....

we damn care about such Theocratic State"...which is based on the foolish "Waliyat-e-Faqeeha"......system...which means ...everything can be issued...negated by a bunch of thugs...who uphold the top-positions...Khoiemieni once wrote in his book that this Wilayat-e-Faqeeha can order to stop the prayers if needed...now tell me...who the hell has powers to negate the rules of quran and sunnah...are they above shariah...what kind of teachings they are spreading...what kind of revolution is this.....

in Iran ...the supreme power is Rahbar...that is...Ayatullah Khamna Eee
...he is the supreme power of iran...having unbelieveable poers...he is above all laws..all courts...all shariah...what the heck is this...tell me...even in Caliphate ofgolden years of islam in 4 caliphs...in caliph is above laws and caliphs...tell me...

even a poor man can investigate that umar ...your shirt is not you..tell us otherwise..we will not obey you......

what kind of this revolution of Theocratic state...he can negate the presendial candidates which he do not like ...and no court is allowed to hear against him...why....who given him so much powers.....

is this revolutrion..you are raising slogans....
is this "revolution" the West is trembling and shivering...hahahahaha

mam.....we do not want such revolution...such nonesense in the name of shariah.....we do not want this "mullahism"...we do not want such theocratic state....

** Pakistan is enlightened moderate country...we need shariah....we do not want such "foolishness"......**

and you say ...the neighbourers country are just puppets...they are far better than what is happening inside iran with minorities...should i tell you !!!!!

we do not want such "revolution"...we damn care about that...for us ...the 4 caliphs system is the best ...the golden era of islam...for us quran and sunnah is enough....we do not want these so -called ayatullahs...hijatullahs....and such religios fanatics...extremists....who neither sleep...nor get tired ...neither you can expevct the least mistake from them......hahahaha

we damn care about such persons...whose uttering words have like a "orders" which cannot be negeted..or opposed...bah....we can even negate the 4 greatest faqeehs of islam...and these mullahs....like Seestani etc think...they are some "super-man "type guys...LOL

for god sake...do not tell us about the "threat" of "revolution of Iran" that USA and West are afraid of it......no body cares about this revolution

the revolution which....

*kills 400 people...inside kaaba

*which brings war to iraq

*which bring unreet in Saudia

*which shatter our dear Pakistan for 20 years with shia sunni conflict by providing vulgur and malicious literature

they ruined our society...they ruined our mosques and iamam bargahs,...they ruined our youth...they ruined Pakistan.......

and still we cares for that** revolution .......a paradise of fools !!!!!**

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

I can also post also tons of material on Sooper Dooper formula of Taqiyya ...but its just mere two way copy-pasting...more than logical and **philosophical **points to proove this "formula"...the

same philosophical debates...which are the favourites subjects...in Hauza Ilmia...Qum..Iran...and in all najaf and Tabrez...and Seestan and other shia great knowledge centres and universities...these nueron teasers debates on philosophy...the greek influence and zorastrainism ...and persian effects make shiaism the blend of all...after 1400 years.....

not a folk...this is reality....

only to say that.....if Taqqiyya is important...at the most ..at the most...when you have fear of loss of your life.....not always....but "braves" even when fear...do not care about it.......

The greatest faqeeh of all times.....whose intellect..wisdom...and knowledge virtually told to be un-parallel in whole islamic history...Nauman Bin Saabit of the Kufa ...which is known by the whole world as Abu Hanifa...and 1.2 billions muslims head bow on hearing his name.....with respect and love...

The Abbasid caliph Mansoor insisted ..tortured and jailed him ...because he refused to take post of Chief Justice of whole islamic world...of 3 continents.....
he plead that i am not worthy for it...Mansoor shouted with anger you are liar....

             ** The king of "Istadlal"** immediately replied that...O caliph... a liar can be a Chief Justice....The caliph face became pale with anger ...and ordered him to jail him till he obey to Caliph...but he refused...and martyred in the jail**....but never ever take a Taqiyya to safe his life......**

One of the golden example of muslim history...and the whole ummah will take inspiration from this brave man !!!!!!

The another greatest faqeeh of islamic history...Ahmed bin Hanbal....refused to give fatwa....of Quran being Khalq....Mansoor ...the Abbasid caliph...jailed him...cut his both hands till shoulders...and rode him on the camel to wander in the streets of baghdad with slaves beating him with lashes...and on each lash....this greatest faqeeh ...usedto shout ..that ...quran is not khalq...the slaves used to cane him more...and on each slash...he shouted with more voice...Quran is not khalq......

why this bravest man not used to Taqqiyya,,,,to safe his life.......he can give the fatwa...but in heart anotther true belief...why di he not give that...way....
because when there is Haqq....no chance...even to die on Haqq....as Martyr.....or accept false.......

Why the beloved of Prophet(pbuh) not did baait of Yazeed even as a taqiyya ..so he could save his whole family...,why he sacrificed the wghole family of prophet(pbuh)....why not baait to ibne saad...etc.....where had the taqiyya gone.....


Why Shiek Ahmed Sarhindi....Mujjaddid alif Sani....one of the greatest sufi of islmic history...refused to bow in front of king Jhangir **....and accepted the jail of Gwaliyaar** ..why he not did Taqiyya.....

The islamic history is full of such personalities...through which the standards or bravery are calibirated......not making escape...and telling a lie...for the name of taqiyya.....



on every small thing ...making lies...munafiqaat...and then make the curtain of Taqiyya..is just kidding yourself......as hadees of prophet(pbuh)....someone asked prophet(pbuh)...is momin can be coward...he replied...yes...a momin can be covered..as it depends upon the internal personality...then he asked a momin can be a liar...prophet(pbuh_ instantly replied...never...a momin cannot be a liar...a momin cannot be a liar...a momin cannot be a liar.....


so a liar is not equal to a momin.....by hadees...

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

And whos the founder of Sunni Mazhab

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

All previous posts and threads material...mostly taken from world greatest scholars on different sects...Allama Ehsan Illahi Zaheer...his 5 books...i request all my shia brothers and sisters to read them..also others who interested in it...Inshallah...they will see the light of truth.....

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

salam imran..how r u .....aray mairai bhai...sunni=ahlle=sunnah=sunnat of prophet(pbuh)=founder is prophet(pbuh)

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

Muawiyah bin Hind

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

LOL.....

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

First fo all i realized that dawa_i_dil in unable to reply to my last post, but no problem, if your piooner ones had to come from their grave, even they wont be able to reply.

Now coming to your yet another "new" topic. i.e of Taaqiyah.

No you cannot paste anything, If Quran and Sunnah permits anything, then no matter how much your Nasibi Mullahs put efforts, they can never be able to make Haram what has been mader Halal by Allah.

[quote]
only to say that.....if Taqqiyya is important...at the most ..at the most...when you have fear of loss of your life.....not always....but "braves" even when fear...do not care about it.......
[/quote]

If you accept this definition then whats the issue all about?

[quote]

***The greatest faqeeh of all times.....whose intellect..wisdom...and knowledge virtually told to be un-parallel in whole islamic history...Nauman Bin Saabit of the Kufa ...which is known by the whole world as Abu Hanifa...and 1.2 billions muslims head bow on hearing his name.....with respect and love...*

The Abbasid caliph Mansoor insisted ..tortured and jailed him ...because he refused to take post of Chief Justice of whole islamic world...of 3 continents.....
he plead that i am not worthy for it...Mansoor shouted with anger you are liar....
**

The king of "Istadlal" immediately replied that...O caliph... a liar can be a Chief Justice....The caliph face became pale with anger ...and ordered him to jail him till he obey to Caliph...but he refused...and martyred in the jail*....but never ever take a Taqiyya to safe his life......*
[/quote]

If he didnt performed Taqqiyah then Muslims doesnt have to do anythiung with his personal notion, For MUslims Quran and Thaqlain is enough to understand what is Halal and Haram.

[quote]
One of the golden example of muslim history...and the whole ummah will take inspiration from this brave man !!!!!!
[/quote]

Certainly not, He is not above Allah and Thaqlain. So his notion is useless, atleast for the followers of Ahlulbayt [as].

[quote]

The another greatest faqeeh of islamic history...Ahmed bin Hanbal....refused to give fatwa....of Quran being Khalq....Mansoor ...the Abbasid caliph...jailed him...cut his both hands till shoulders...and rode him on the camel to wander in the streets of baghdad with slaves beating him with lashes...and on each lash....this greatest faqeeh ...usedto shout ..that ...quran is not khalq...the slaves used to cane him more...and on each slash...he shouted with more voice...Quran is not khalq......

[/quote]

As above.

[quote]

why this bravest man not used to Taqqiyya,,,,to safe his life.......he can give the fatwa...but in heart anotther true belief...why di he not give that...way....
because when there is Haqq....no chance...even to die on Haqq....as Martyr.....or accept false.......

[/quote]

The think Nasibi minds need to understand that there are certain situations where Taqqiyah is wajib and certain situatons when it is Haram. You just cannt pick one incident out of ocntext and say: "see he doesnt performed Taqqiyah" rather it depends on situation to situation.

[quote]

***Why the beloved of Prophet(pbuh) not did baait of Yazeed even as a taqiyya ..so he could save his whole family...,why he sacrificed the wghole family of prophet(pbuh)....why not baait to ibne saad...etc.....where had the taqiyya gone.....*
**
[/quote]
**

As above.**

[quote]
Why Shiek Ahmed Sarhindi....Mujjaddid alif Sani....one of the greatest sufi of islmic history...refused to bow in front of king Jhangir **....and accepted the jail of Gwaliyaar** ..why he not did Taqiyya.....
[/quote]

Again, he was not more than Allah and Thaqlain. If Allah permits Taqqiyah, it shall suffice for Muslims, and for those who deem Sarhindi etc as their sole idols, then good for them.

[quote]

***The islamic history is full of such personalities...through which the standards or bravery are calibirated......not making escape...and telling a lie...for the name of taqiyya.....*
**
[/quote]

The Islamic history is full of people who were better than Abu Hanifa, Ahmed, Sirhandi and yet they performed Taqqiyqh. The incident of Sahabi Ammar Yasir [ra] is quite popular in this regard.

**
[quote]
so a liar is not equal to a momin.....by hadees...
[/quote]
**

And lair under Taqqiyah does not negate the belief of a momin, by Quran, Hadees and Statements of Scholars.

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

I m fine Bro u tell.Bhai Dont do tht Islam is a deen its not a mazhad and by the why if u r talking about hadees it has been collected after the death of muhammad pbuh (more than 200 years).So he is not the founder of Sunni Mazhab.Thts why there is so much sectors amoung in suuni mazhab braveli shafi hanafi maalaki deobandi.Yea daal rooti ke bunyaad hai deen nahi hope u will understand it

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

The book of Wasil Jahanum Nasibi scholar Ahsan Ilahi Zaheed on the topic of Quran has been refuted by Allamah Ghulam Hussain Najafi, so brothers and sisters shall also have a look at that as well.

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

this is false...

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

ROFL!

Is this your stock response when you get your beliefs trampled?

Just like ALL those sunni historians etc were writing lies when they condemned Sayf bin Umar.

Still ROFL!

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

The WHOLE world eh??

Careful what you say!

The whole world happens to include yours truly and every other shian-e-Ali and funnily enough WE know that ibn Saba is a fantasy from the mind of, at best, misguided muslim.

So no, I am afraid the WHOLE world does not know, only jahils.

Why don't you poor saps read the opinions of YOUR esteemed scholars posted at the beginning of this thread or is that too much to expect of people desperate to be identified as jahils?

For someone calling himself bitter reality you don't seem to be prepared to swallow the bitter truth.

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

Bhai Jaan lets keep it simple...don't hide behind the bush please......
Lets see the role of Ibne Saba's follower from day 1

  1. They conspired against Sahabas like Hazrat Omer (RA) , Hazrat Osman (RA) and Hazrat Ali (RA)
  2. They conspired against the** Baghdad caliphate** and invited the Mongols to destroy baghdad. Naseer ud toosi the treacherous prime minister of Baghdad was a Shia and he in stealth told the Mongols of the weeknesses of the Islamic Caliphate. 3.** Tipu Sultan** lost the battle against the britisg because of treachery of Mir jaffar (Another Shia). Mir Jaffer told the british about the weak walls of sultan's citadel
  3. Siraj dola another muslim emperor faced treachery of shias.
  4. History repeated itself...in 2000's and the Afghani Shia helped the Americans to take over Kabul
  5. Again repitition of history, The Iraqi shias once again helped outsiders to attack motherland Iraq. Now tell me where do u see a mistake? where do u see a misrepresentation? brothers....i think that the followers of Ibne Saba....are totally exposed now!

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

reality:

[quote]
3. Tipu Sultan lost the battle against the britisg because of treachery of Mir jaffar (Another Shia). Mir Jaffer told the british about the weak walls of sultan's citadel
4. Siraj dola another muslim emperor faced treachery of shias.
[/quote]

I know that Sirajuddolah was shia himself. I have heard the same about Tipu Sultan, but not sure about him.

[quote]
5. History repeated itself...in 2000's and the Afghani Shia helped the Americans to take over Kabul
[/quote]

Not only did Hazara support Americans, but so did sunni Tajiks and Uzbeks. What about them?
What about Saudis supporting Americans in Middle East?

[quote]
5. History repeated itself...in 2000's and the Afghani Shia helped the Americans to take over Kabul
[/quote]

News for you. Kurds are mostly sunni, and they supported Americans against Saddam too.
Actually, Saddam was a mad tyrrant. Even sunni countries like Qatar, Kuwait and Saudi supported Americans against Saddam.

Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed

Either somebody has fooled you by giving wrong information or you are happy to remain ignorant, there wasnt any clue of Ibn Saba during the time of Omer, majority of the traditions (free from Saif Ibn Umer in their chain) shows that a person namely Ibn Saba appeared durihng the caliphate of Ali [as].

Again you are wrong, rather it was the other way round, the Shias were fighting agasint the Nasibi talibaan, USA just made the most of the apportunity.

Thats why Americans are after Muqtada al Sadr?

The Nasibi mullah/website from where you have taken your information has clearly fooled you and has made wrong connections. But whatever the case may be, I am surprised to see that you mentioned different events of treachery and dishonesty but you didnt mentioned the worst form of treachery that took place a couple of times during the time of Prophet [s] when some people ran away like cowards abandoning Prophet [s] in the battle field.