Re: Abdullah ibn Saba - The Myth Exposed
Mr. Contra in all his posts...just take a single point that....Tabari have written this...Tabari have written this...Tabari has written this......
when you people talk about the threat of umar (ra) of burning ali(ra) house in the beginning of abu bakr(ra) caliphate...then Tabari is very correct...very true...very authentic...HUH ....and when it talks about Ibne Saba ....suddenly its becomes a rotten egg for you.....what is this !!!!!!!
It gets tedious when people either don't bother to read what has been posted or having done so fail to understand what they have read.
The contention is that Abdullah ibn Saba is a creation of Sayf bin Umar.
Sayf bin Uamr has been declared weak, a liar and a fabricator by some pretty heavyweight sunni ulema.
Tabari, along with others, writes about ibn Saba BUT Tabari along with three other writers takes his "history" from Sayf bin Umar and there are several others who take their "history" from Tabari and these three.
So the common source of the story is Sayf bin Umar - a declared liar and fabricator as per various sunni ulema/historians.
If you need to take a drink or two from that water cooler, feel free to do so.
There is a group of "historians" who have mentioned ibn Saba without any references as to the source of their stories.
Have some more water.
Summarising so far, the "belief" of the sunnis/wahabis in ibn Saba is based on the writings of a declared liar and fabricator.
Gosh! What a surprise!
But what about those shia historians who wrote about ibn Saba?
Hmmnn...read the posts!:
[quote]
Among the Shia who mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba but without any information regarding to their source, are the following two historians:
(1) Sa'ad Ibn Abdillah al-Ash'ari al-Qummi (d. 301) in his book "al-Maqalat
wal-Firaq" mentioned a report in which there exists the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. But he did not mention any chain of authorities nor
did he mention from whom (or which book) he got the story and what his
source was. Moreover al-Ash'ari al-Qummi has narrated many traditions
from Sunni authorities. al-Najjashi (d. 450) in his "al-Rijal" said
that al-Ash'ari al-Qummi traveled to many places and was well-known
for his relation with Sunni historians and heard many stories from
them. He wrote many weak reports from what he heard, one of which is
a short story about Abdullah Ibn Saba, with no reference.
(2) Hasan Ibn Musa al-Nawbakhti (d. 310) who was a Shia historian who
provided in his book "al-Firaq" a report in which is the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. However he never mentioned from whom he got the
report and what his source was.
The above two were the Shia who originally provided some information about
the existence of an accursed man in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba at the
time of Imam Ali (AS). Notice that all of them reported these information
long after Sayf Ibn Umar and even after al-Tabari wrote his history. Thus
they might perhaps got the information from Sayf or those who quoted from
him such as al-Tabari. This becomes more probable when we see that they
wrote "Some people say so and so..." without giving any documented support
(isnad) or the name of those "some people"!
[/quote]
The case for ibn Saba gets weaker and weaker.
Then our marvellously well read sunni brothers quoted the Jewish Ecyclopaedia!!!!
ROFL!!!!
Still ROFL!!!!
Finally this:
[quote]
Upto the classical age of Shi'ism, all of the erudite Shi'ite scholars attributed the origin of Shi'ism to this same ibn Saba. `Allamah Majlisi said:
"Some scholars have asserted that ibn Saba was a Jew who accepted Islam and started voicing his opinion of the wilayat' (divine appointment) ofAli. While a Jew, he propounded the exaggerative notion that Yusha ibn Nun was divinely appointed to succeed Prophet Musa, he thus adopted a similar stance with regard to `Ali in relation to the Holy Prophet. He was the first to subscribe to the belief of Imamate, and he openly vitriolated his enemies (i.e. the first three Caliphs) and branded them as infidels. The origin of Shi'ism is thus based on Judaism."
[/quote]
Now I'm ROFLMAO!!!!
Shia scholars have accepted that shia islam is based on judaism??????
Still ROFLMAO!!!!
Is this pathetic nonsense the best you can come up with????!!!!
To sum up:
Sayf bin Umar, a lying fabricator, concocted the story of ibn Saba.
Sayf bin Umar was quoted by various sunni historians.
Sunnis now firmly believe in ibn Saba.
Oh before I forget, sunnis also believe that the jewish encyclopaedia is a sahih source of info for their beliefs.
ROFL!!!
