Abdullah Bin Sabah.........Who?

Abdullah bin Saba, a clever Jew or Yemen, played a leading role in this drama. During Othman’s calpihate, he came to Medina, and made a show of becoming a devout Muslim, but he had his own plans. He stayed for some months in Medina and studied things. He saw that Banu Hashim regarded the Caliphate their natural right. They thought that Ali, and not Othman, should have been the Caliph. Abdullah bin Saba determined to make capital out of this.
With great cunning, he set about his task. He made “love of the Holy Prophet and his relatives” his starting-point. Out of this, he spun a clever story. Every Prophet, he said, left behind a “Wasi.” The Wasi must be a near relative of the Prophet. Aaron was the Wasi of Moses. In the same way, the Holy Prophet must also have a Wasi, to carry on his mission. Muhammad (peace be upon him) was the last of the Prophets. So, his Wasi, Ali, was the last of the Wasis. Being the Wasi, Ali was the only rightful man to be the Caliph. Othman, therefore had to be removed from the caliphate.

Abdullah bin Saba began to preach his views secretly. He visited important cities in the Muslim empire. In each city, he set up a secret society. He picked up men who lent an easy ear to what he said. These were generally the men who had some real or imaginary complaint against the officers. It was easy to tell these men that the Caliph was the real cause of all trouble.

When the network of secret societies was complete, Abdullah bin Saba set up his headquarters in Egypt. The secret societies rapidly increased their strength. For this they used the following method:

Their members made a great show of piety. They posed as the real well wishers of the people.
They invented complaints against Othman and his officers. Some of the complaints were no doubt real. Under cover of these, they also said things that did not exist.
A regular campaign was started against all officers. They were described as irreligions and inefficient.
Forged letters were sent from city to city. These letters talked of injustice and unrest in the city of origin. The Sabaites read out the letters to as many people as possible. Letters were also forged to show that Ali, Talha, Zubair and other noted Companions had full sympathy with the movement. This led people to think that there was widespread unrest and that the leading Companions wanted to remove the Caliph.

Saba pretty much acted in a way Muawiya did.
But atleast muawiya was less hypocritical.

"Abdullah bin Saba" is a non-existent fairy tale character invented by the descedents of Amir Muawiya and their cronies as a desperate and pathetic attempt to hide their ugly doings.

No "Abdullah bin Saba" ever existed.

InshAllah I will prove this with the help of historical narratives from both Sunni and Shi'a sources.

Keep reading this thread.

oh come on ,he did exist..abudllah bin sabah was in Cindrella.

Ha ha
You must be joking.....

First Abu HurairahRadi Allah an hu) didn't Exist

Now Saba doesn't Exist...there we go now we will have to prove that first

And Bro Paglu don't pull Hadra Amir Muawia(Radi Allah an hu ) in every post

......Sawal Gandum Jawab Chana........

Has anyone of you ever seen a copy of the birth certificate of Abu Huraira and Abdullah whatever it is? If no, these things didn't exist. Let's move on to alcohol or something else.

[quote]
Originally posted by Mullah_DoPiazza:
Has anyone of you ever seen a copy of the birth certificate of Abu Huraira and Abdullah whatever it is? If no, these things didn't exist. Let's move on to alcohol or something else.
[/quote]

Bro, have you seen birth certificate of all your ancestors yet? I bet u didn't see birth certificate of your own grand father. and then you ask for birth certificate, who would issue that? Imam Khomenei?

Please think before you answer.


We oughta be Changez like, don't we?

[This message has been edited by Changez_like (edited July 20, 2001).]

First: Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Musa al-Nubakhti:
The well known Shi'ite "Who's Who" critic, al-Najashi in his al-Fihrist, wrote:

"al-Hasan bin Musa: Abu Muhammad al-Nubakhti, the well versed in dialectism, who surpassed the peers of his time prior and after the 300 (hijra)"
al-Fihrist: al-Najashi, p.47; From Ash-Shi'a was-Sunnah, p.22

Another "Who's Who" critic, At-Tusi, in his al-Fihrist wrote:

"Abu Muhammad, dialectist and philosopher, was an Imami (shi'ite), an upright in faith, trustworthy (thiqah)....and he is one of the scholars' landmarks"
al-Fihrist: At-Tusi, p.98; From Ash-Shi'a Was-Sunnah, p.22

Nurallah at-Tasturi, in his "Majaalis al-Mu'mineen" wrote:

"al-Hasan bin Musa, one of the celebrity of this sect and its scholars. He was a dialectist, a philosopher, an Imami in faith"
Majaalis al-Mu'mineen: Nurallah At-Tasturi, p.177; from Ash-Shi'a was-Sunnah, p.22

Having established the authority of this historian from the Shi'ites own sources, let's read what Mr. al-Nubakhti had to say about Ibn Saba':

"Abdullah bin Saba', was one of those who slandered Abu Bakr, Omar, Othman and the Companions and disowned them. He claimed that it was Ali [as] who enjoined this on him. Ali arrested him, and upon interrogation, admitted to the charge, and (Ali) ordered him to be executed. The People cried 'O Chief of Believers ! Do you execute a man calling to your love, Ahlul-Bayt, to your allegiance, and disowning your enemies?' He (Ali) then exiled him to al-Mada'in (Capital of Iran back then). Some of the knowledgeable companions of Ali [as] narrated that Abdullah bin Saba' was a Jew who embraced Islam and sided with Ali [as]. That he was of the opinion, at the time when he was a Jew, claiming that Yousha' bin Noon is after Moses. After his submission to Islam, after the demise of the Prophet [pbuh&hf], he claimed the same for Ali [as]. He was the first to publicly mandate the Imamah of Ali [as], disowning his enemies, and debated his opposers. From thence, those who oppose Shi'ism say: The origin of Shi'ism is rooted in Judaism. When Abdullah bin Saba' heard of the demise of Ali while in (his exile at) al-Mada'in, he said to the announcer of the news: 'You are a liar, if you are to bring his head in seventy bags, and brought seventy witnesses testifying to his death, we'll insist that he did not die nor murdered, and (he) shall not die till he rules the globe' ".

Reference:
Firaq al-Shi'a: Nubakhti, pp. 43,44

So, according to reliable SHIA scholars Abdullah bin Saba did exist and he was the one who started this shia cult in Islam and we still see the results of it in Agha Khanism ignorancy.

More Proofs:

Second: Abu Amr bin Abdul Aziz al-Kash-shi: Another well known "Who's Who" critic who also mentioned Ibn Saba', and one of the earliest Shi'ite biographist. In the "Introduction" to his book, known as "Rijaal al-Kash-shi", we read:

"He is trustworthy (thiqah), an adept, an expert in traditions and men, very knowledgeable, well founded in faith, on the upright path......The most important books on biographies of men are four, which are heavily depended on and (considered) the four basic pillars in this field, the most important and earliest of all is: Ma'rifat al-Naqileen anil-A'immah As-Sadiqeen (Knowing the Transmittors on The Authority of The Truthful Imams) known as Rijaal al-Kash-shi".
Rijaal al-Kash-shi: al-Najaashi, Introduction.

Having established the authority of this scholar, let's examine what he has to say about the Jew Ibn Saba':

"Some people of knowledge mentioned that Abdullah bin Saba' was a Jew, who embraced Islam and supported Ali. While he was still a Jew, he used to go to extremism in calling Yousha' bin Noon as the appointee (successor) of Moses, thus after embracing Islam - after the demise of the Messenger of Allah [pbuh&hf] - he said the like about Ali. It was him who first publicly announced the mandatory Iamamah for Ali, rejected and disowned his enemies, debated his opponents and called them Kafirs. Hence, those who oppose the Shi'ites often say: The Shi'ites and Rejectors (Rafidah) have their roots in Judaism"

Rijaal al-Kash-shi: Abu 'Amr bin Abdul Aziz al-Kash-shi, p.101 al-Mamaqaani, author of "Tanqeeh al-Maqaal", who is an authoritative Shi'i biogrophist quoted the like in his said book, p.184

More to come.

Now, shias have their reliable religious Imaams to deny since its proven that Abdullah bin Sabah did exist and was creator of Shia sect.


"I am not playing with a full deck!"

[quote]
Originally posted by Changez_like:
** Bro, have you seen birth certificate of all your ancestors yet? I bet u didn't see birth certificate of your own grand father. and then you ask for birth certificate, who would issue that? Imam Khomenei?

Please think before you answer.
**
[/quote]

Yes I have everything dating back all the way upto 1857, what about you?

Abdullah ibn Sabah was a Ghulat i.e. He first proclaimed himself as God. Later, he prescribed divinity of Imam Ali (as) and called him God.

It is funny how you wahabis try to change ibn Saba's views to try to match those of the shias. However, all your tactics will be of no use to you, since falsehood is destined to perish.

Now, let's see who Saba really was:

The fabricated stories around the character of Abdullah Ibn Saba are the
malicious production of one of the disciples of the devil, namely Sayf Ibn
Umar al-Tamimi. He was a story teller, lived in the second century after
Hijrah, who shaped his stories by some primary facts he found in the
documented history of Islam available at that time. Sayf wrote a novel much
the same as what Salman Rushdi did in "Satanic Verses" with similar
motives, but with the difference that the role of Satan in this case was
given to poor Abdullah Ibn Saba.

The Origin of The Tale

The tale of Abdullah Ibn Saba is over twelve centuries old. Historians
and writers, one after the other recorded it, adding more and more to it.

With a glance at the chain of transmitters of this story, you will find the
name of Sayf sitting in there. The following historians recorded directly
from Sayf:

(1) Tabari.
(2) Dhahabi. He has also cited from Tabari(1).
(3) Ibn Abi Bakir. He has also recorded from Ibn Athir(15), who has
recorded from Tabari(1).
(4) Ibn Asakir.

Now, let's see what you sunnis yourself think about Sayf and all his stories which you so readily attribute to the Shias.

The following leading Sunni scholars confirm that Sayf Ibn Umar was a well-
known liar and untrustworthy:

(1) al-Hakim (d. 405 AH) wrote: "Sayf is accused of being a heretic. His
narrations are abandoned."

(2) al-Nisa'i (d. 303 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and they
should be disregarded because he was unreliable and untrustworthy."

(3) Yahya Ibn Mueen (d. 233 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and
useless."

(4) Abu Hatam (d. 277 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is rejected."

(5) Ibn Abi Hatam (d. 327 AH) wrote: "Scholars have abandoned Sayf's
narrations."

(6) Abu Dawud (d. 316 AH) wrote: "Sayf is nothing. He was a liar. Some of
his Hadiths were conveyed and the majority of them are denied."

(7) Ibn Habban (d. 354 AH) wrote: "Sayf attributed fabricated traditions
to the good reporters. He was accused of being a heretic and a liar."

(8) Ibn Abd al-Barr (d. 462 AH) mentined in his writing abut al-Qa'qa:
"Sayf reported that al-Qa'qa Said: I attended the death of the Prophet
Muhammad." Ibn Adb al-Barr continued: "Ibn Abu Hatam said: Sayf is
weak. Thus, what was conveyed of the presence of al-Qa'qa at the death
of the Prophet is rejected. We mentioned the Sayf's traditions for
knowledge only."

(9) al-Darqutini (d. 385 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak".

(10) Firoozabadi (d. 817 AH) in "Towalif" mentioned Sayf and some others by
saying: "They are weak."

(11) Ibn al-Sakan (d. 353 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak."

(12) Safi al-Din (d. 923 AH) wrote: "Sayf is considered weak."

(13) Ibn Udei (d. 365 AH) wrote about Sayf: "He is weak. Some of his
narrations are famous yet the majority of his narrations are
disgraceful and not followed."

(14) al-Suyuti (d. 900 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is weak."

(15) Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 AH) wrote after mentioning a tradition:
"Many reporters of this tradition are weak, and the weakest among them
is Sayf."

ws

[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited July 22, 2001).]

They very few shia sources that do mention ibn Saba, show clearly who Saba was and how he died a miserable death:

It is attributed to Abu Ja'far (AS) (5th imam) saying:

 Abdullah Ibn Saba used to claim being a prophet and claimed that The
 Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) is God.   Allah is Higher than such
 (claim). This news reached to The Commander of Believers (AS), so he
 called him and questioned him. But he repeated his claims and said:
 "You are Him (i.e., God), and it has been revealed to me that you are
 God and I am a prophet." So The Commander of Believers (AS) said: "How
 dare you! Satan has made a mockery of you. Repent for what you
 said. May your mother weep at your death! Quit (your claim)."  But he
 refused, so (Imam Ali) imprisoned him and asked him three times to
 repent, but he didn't. Thus he burnt him with fire and said: "Satan
 had taken him into his whim, he used to come to him and to induce
 these (thoughts) in him." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

Moreover it is reported that Imam Ali Ibn Husain (AS) (4th imam) said:

 "May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I
 mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah
 cursed him. Ali (AS) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the
 brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the
 graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and
 His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did
 not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah."
 (Rijal, by al-KuShshi)

It is reported that Abu Abdillah (AS) (6th imam) said:

 "We are a family of truthfulness. But we are not safe from a liar
 telling lies about us to undermine our truth with his lies in front of
 people. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) was the most truthful among
 people in what he said (Lahjatan) and the most truthful among all
 humanity; and Musaylima used to lie on him. The Commander of Believers
 (AS) was the most truthful one among the creation of Allah after the
 Messenger of Allah; and the one who used to lie on him, and tried to
 undermine his truthfulness and claimed lies about Allah, was Abdullah
 Ibn Saba." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

Also:

 "As he (Aba Abdillah - Ja'far al-Sadiq) was telling his companions in
 the subject of Abdullah Ibn Saba and that he claimed in Godness of The
 Commander of Believers, Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He said: When he claimed
 that in Ali, he asked him to repent and he refused, so he burnt him
 with fire." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

So once again, I advise you to stop spreading false stories and stick with facts.

Your stories of Abdulla bin Saba are not new - your wahabi forefathers brought forth such fiction years before you were born, and each of their fantasies were proven to be just that - fantasies.

But, thanks for the laugh. Saturday night can get pretty dull around here.

ws

[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
First: **Abu Muhammad al-Hasan bin Musa al-Nubakhti:
The well known Shi'ite "Who's Who" critic, al-Najashi in his al-Fihrist, wrote:

"al-Hasan bin Musa: Abu Muhammad al-Nubakhti, the well versed in dialectism, who surpassed the peers of his time prior and after the 300 (hijra)"
al-Fihrist: al-Najashi, p.47; From Ash-Shi'a was-Sunnah, p.22

Another "Who's Who" critic, At-Tusi, in his al-Fihrist wrote:

"Abu Muhammad, dialectist and philosopher, was an Imami (shi'ite), an upright in faith, trustworthy (thiqah)....and he is one of the scholars' landmarks"
al-Fihrist: At-Tusi, p.98; From Ash-Shi'a Was-Sunnah, p.22

Having established the authority of this historian from the Shi'ites own sources, let's read what Mr. al-Nubakhti had to say about Ibn Saba':

Now, shias have their reliable religious Imaams to deny since its proven that Abdullah bin Sabah did exist and was creator of Shia sect.

**
[/quote]

It is nice to know how you have praised this shia scholar, who had surpassed the peers of his time - most definitely including any sunni scholars, who cannot match shia alims in knowledge anyways.

Hasan Ibn Musa al-Nawbakhti was a Shia historian who provided in his book "al-Firaq" a report in which is the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba.

However he NEVER mentioned from whom he got the report and what his source was.

This Shia scholar originally provided some information about
the existence of an accursed man in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba at the
time of Imam Ali (AS).

Notice that he reported these information
long after Sayf Ibn Umar and even after al-Tabari wrote his history.

Thus they might perhaps got the information from Sayf or those who quoted from
him such as al-Tabari.

This becomes more probable when we see that they wrote "Some people say so and so..." without giving any documented support
(isnad) or the name of those "some people"!

So as you can see, this shia scholar never mentioned any sources for stories related to ibn Saba.

Moreover, he probably got it from sunni sources such as Tabari and company. And isn't it funny how you sunnis yourselves have discredited Sayf, the source of Saba.

Oh no, don't worry. Try harder next time.
Try looking at other wahabi sites for inspiration.

ws

[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited July 22, 2001).]

A1shah, first you say that I did a good job praising this shia scholar. And then you deny his writing? If he was so great and honored why question his writing? Other "great" shia scholars have said that this particular writer is very reliable. Now, we are not making any comparison between who were the better writers shia or sunni. Look at what it represents not whether it makes them better than others.

If you look closely, the references are strictly SHIA, so no wahabi involved. Don't point fingers at someone else just because you are having trouble digesting the truth.

Those "praising" statements from other shia scholars about shia scholars was put there to establish an authority that those scholars who wrote about Abdullah bin Saba are reliable and did not lie.
Now, if these Shi'ites authorities lied about the identity of Ibn Saba', then the possibility of them lying about other matters, like the events of Siffien, the murder of al-Hussain [ra] and other shia dogmas, stands greater. Consequently, if this is the case, doubt will overshadow any and all events and narrations recorded by them.

Some more dough for you:

"Abdullah bin Saba' returned to disbelief and showed extremism. He claimed prophethood, and that Ali [as] was Allah (in the flesh). Ali [as], for three (consecutive) days asked him to repent but he failed, thereupon, he [as] burned him (alive) with seventy other men who attributed divinship to him"

Kitaab al-Rijaal: al-Hilly, p.469, printed in Tehran, Iran 1383 h. From Ash-Shi'a wat-Tashayyu', p.56

"When Abdullah bin Saba' learned that the opposition to Othman in Egypt was greater, he went there and pretended the knowledge and righteouseness until the people trusted him. After he established himself there, he started to propagate his ideas and theory, that for each Prophet was an appointed successor, and the appointee (wasi) of the Apostle of Allah and his successor is no other than Ali, who is blessed with knowledge and Fatwa, ornamented with generousity and courage, and known for his honesty and righteouseness. He further said: The Ummah has wronged Ali, usurped his right, the right of Khilafah (succession) and Walayah (allegiance). It is encumbant upon you all to aid and support him. He (immediately) revoked his obedience and allegiance to Othman, and touched many Egyptians with his sayings and deeds, and they revolted against Othman"

Tareekh Shi'i: Rawdat As-Safa, vol.2, p.292, Tehran Ed., From: Ashi'a wat-Tashayyu' , p.56


"I am not playing with a full deck!"

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited July 22, 2001).]

Follower of Hanafi(sunni) respects Imam Abu Hanifa
Follower of Maliki respects Imam Malik
Follower of Shafiee respects Imam Shafiee
Follower of Hambali respects Imam Hambali
Follower of Wahabbi's respects Abdul Wahab
Follower of Qadiani/Ahmadiyyah respects Mirza Ghulam.(what is his full name?) ....
Follower of Rashad Khalifian respects Rashad Khalifa

Christians respects Jesus

And Shia respects Hazrrat Ali and doesn't even acknowledge their own (claimed by few) founder - Abdullah Ibn Saba.

Isn't this a lil' bit odd not to mention suspicious?

Why are Shia calling themselves Follower of Ali when Abdullah Ibn Saba is the main scholar of this sect?

And why do we think we know better who is the founder of Shiaisme. Can anyone answer this question for me?

Basit,

I can feel yr wahabi blood itching when truth is revealed.

Now, since you always have trouble comprehending the posts, I will attempt to make it clearer to you.

The shia scholar in his writing mentions Abdullah bin Saba, but he does not give any chain of narrators. He just said " It was heard from someone who ... ". This form of narration is the weakest form and is to be totally rejected.

In addition, it seems like you do not respect yr own sunni scholars, most of whom have rejected the works of Sayf, the one who came up with the story of this cursed character Saba.

Be it shia or sunni, all scholars are fallible. The only infallibles are Allah (swt), his prophet (pbuh) and his ahl bait (as).

Also, let it be known that the Shia scholar does not mention the accursed Saba as anything to do with Islam. He describes the beliefs of this character.

What were his beliefs - that he was God and later that Ali was God.

Are these shia beliefs ? No, then why do you waste everyone's time, especially mine ?

And if you even bothered to read the Shia hadiths that I posted, very few of them that there are, refer to Abdullah bin Saba, they clearly tell you that the man was cursed and was dealt a painful punishment.

Now Basit boy, how much of the above don't you still understand ?

Basit, Basit. Where are you ? Oh I'm sorry. You must be back at your wahabi web sites again.

Give yourself, and all of us a break.

Babydoll, what if i tell you “Duawiya bin Sabah was the founder of your sect, yet you don’t even acknowledge him and consider yourself the follower of Muawiya”

How would you feel?

This is how you make us feel

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

ukey:

Abdullah bin Saba is a vicious myth invented by Amir Muawiya’s descendents in order to hide the evil doings of Muawiya and his cronies under a veil of ignorance and intrigue.

Read the following article

In the Name of Allah the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful

Abdullah Ibn Saba

(Part I)

Enemies of Islam whose goal were/are to split the Muslims, in their effort
to explain the emergence of Shia, claim that the Shia are a sect which was
originated by Abdullah Ibn Saba, a Jew who embraced Islam during the reign
of Uthman Ibn Affan, the third caliph. They further state that Abdullah Ibn
Saba traveled in Muslim cities and towns, from Damascus to Kufa to Egypt,
propagating among Muslims that Ali is the Prophet's successor. He provoked
Muslims to kill Uthman since he believed Uthman had occupied the seat of
Imam Ali. He also made mischief in the armies of Ali and his opponents in
the battle of Camel. He was also responsible for all the false ideas of the
Shia forward. These mercenary writers believe that Abdullah Ibn Saba is the
ORIGIN of Shia; and since he himself was a hypocrite and a falsifier of
tales, then all the knowledge and beliefs of the Shia are also false. In
fact, Abdullah Ibn Saba is the best scapegoat for all the claims of some
Sunnis.

While the existence of a person in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba in the
early history of Islam is seriously under question, what is clear after
extensively researching this topic is that even if a poor man with such
name ever existed at that time, the stories propagated about this person
are legendary, false, fabricated, and fictitious, and there exists no proof
for the validity of these stories attached to him. This point will be
studied in this discussion, by the willing of Allah.

============

Introduction

The fabricated stories around the character of Abdullah Ibn Saba are the
malicious production of one of the disciples of the devil, namely Sayf Ibn
Umar al-Tamimi. He was a story teller, lived in the second century after
Hijrah, who shaped his stories by some primary facts he found in the
documented history of Islam available at that time. Sayf wrote a novel much
the same as what Salman Rushdi did in "Satanic Verses" with similar
motives, but with the difference that the role of Satan in this case was
given to poor Abdullah Ibn Saba.

Sayf Ibn Umar distorted the biographies of the companions of the Holy
Prophet (PBUH&HF) to please the government of his time, and to distort the
history of Shia and to ridicule Islam. Sayf was a staunch advocate of the
Umayads, who were known throughout history to be one of the worst enemies
of Ahlul-Bayt, and as such, it was in his best interest to invent such
stories to degrade the Shia. In his stories however he followed many other
goals one of which was to cleverly elevate the status of his tribe over
others by inventing some imaginary companions form his tribe. However many
Sunni scholars found numerous unjustifiable heresies in his reports which
was not limited to the issue of Abdullah Ibn Saba, and consequently they
abandoned his reports, and accuse him as a man of forgery and lies. Yet
Sayf's works enjoyed the support of a minority of Sunnis to this date.
Here, later on, I give the sayings of several leading Sunni scholars, who
all confirmed that Sayf Ibn Umar was an untrustworthy person and his
stories are void.

Ideological studies indicate that most of those who hate the Shi'ite school
of thought (a lot of whom being the enemies of Islam anyway) justify their
enmity on this obvious heresy which they would exploit to backup their
attack on Shia. The approach which resembles the one adopted by Sayf Ibn
Umar himself.

======================

The Origin of The Tale

The tale of Abdullah Ibn Saba is over twelve centuries old. Historians
and writers, one after the other recorded it, adding more and more to it.

With a glance at the chain of transmitters of this story, you will find the
name of Sayf sitting in there. The following historians recorded directly
from Sayf:

(1) Tabari.
(2) Dhahabi. He has also cited from Tabari(1).
(3) Ibn Abi Bakir. He has also recorded from Ibn Athir(15), who has
recorded from Tabari(1).
(4) Ibn Asakir.

The following have recorded indirectly from Sayf:

(5) Nicholson from Tabari(1).
(6) Encyclopedia of Islam from Tabari(1).
(7) Van Floton from Tabari(1).
(8) Wellhauzen from Tabari(1).
(9) Mirkhand from Tabari(1).
(10) Ahmad Amin from Tabari(1), and from Wellhauzen(8).
(11) Farid Wajdi from Tabari(1).
(12) Hasan Ibrahim from Tabari(1).
(13) Saeed Afghani from Tabari(1), and from Ibn Abi Bakir(3), Ibn
Asakir(4), and Ibn Badran(21).
(14) Ibn Khaldoon from Tabari(1).
(15) Ibn Athir from Tabari(1).
(16) Ibn Kathir from Tabari(1).
(17) Donaldson from Nicholson(5), and from Encyclopedia(6).
(18) Ghiath al-Din from Mirkhand(9).
(19) Abul Fida from Ibn Athir(15).
(20) Rashid Ridha from Ibn Athir(15).
(21) Ibn Badran from Ibn Asakir(4).
(22) Bostani from Ibn Kathir(16).

The above list gives evidence to the fact that the fictitious stories
around the character of Abdullah Ibn Saba has been started by Sayf and
cited next by Tabari directly from Sayf's book as Tabari mentioned himself
(See the chain of narrators of traditions related to Abdullah Ibn Saba,
inside the History of Tabari. For instance, see the index of Vol. 15,
English version, under the name of Sayf Ibn Umar or Abdullah Ibn Saba).
Therefore, Sayf's character and his history should be studied and analyzed
with a great care.

============

Who Is Sayf?

Sayf Ibn Umar al-Dhabbi al-Usayyidi al-Tamimi lived in the second century
of the Muslim era (8th century AD) and died after the year 170 AH (750 AD).
al-Dhahabi said that Sayf died during the rule of Haroon al-Rashid in
Baghdad (Iraq). During his life, Sayf wrote the following two books which
were available even during the reign of Umayad:

  1. "al-Fotooh wa al-Riddah" which is the history of the period before the
    death of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) until the third Caliph Uthman resumed
    office as the ruler of Muslim world.

  2. "al-Jamal wa Maseeri Aisha wa Ali" which is the history from the
    murder of Uthman to the battle of Jamal (the fight that happened
    between Imam Ali and some companions).

These books are now lost but survived for a number of centuries after
Sayf's own lifetime. Based on what we found, the last person who had said
that he had possessed Sayf's books was Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 AH).

These two books of Sayf contained more action than truth, some forged
stories, and some true events which, intentionally, have been recorded in a
ridiculing manner.

Since Sayf spoke about some of the companions of the Prophet (PBUH&HF) and
also invented some companions with strange names, his stories have affected
the history of early Islam. Some biographers such as the authors of "Usdul
Ghabah", "Isti'ab" and "Isabah" and geographers such as the authors of
"Mu'jamul Boldan" and "al-Rawzul mi'tar" have written the life of some
companions of the Prophet, and named places which exist only in the books
written by Sayf. Because of this, the life and character of Sayf and his
credibility should be carefully investigated.

======================================

What Do Sunni Scholars Say About Sayf?

The following leading Sunni scholars confirm that Sayf Ibn Umar was a well-
known liar and untrustworthy:

(1) al-Hakim (d. 405 AH) wrote: "Sayf is accused of being a heretic. His
narrations are abandoned."

(2) al-Nisa'i (d. 303 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and they
should be disregarded because he was unreliable and untrustworthy."

(3) Yahya Ibn Mueen (d. 233 AH) wrote: "Sayf's narrations are weak and
useless."

(4) Abu Hatam (d. 277 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is rejected."

(5) Ibn Abi Hatam (d. 327 AH) wrote: "Scholars have abandoned Sayf's
narrations."

(6) Abu Dawud (d. 316 AH) wrote: "Sayf is nothing. He was a liar. Some of
his Hadiths were conveyed and the majority of them are denied."

(7) Ibn Habban (d. 354 AH) wrote: "Sayf attributed fabricated traditions
to the good reporters. He was accused of being a heretic and a liar."

(8) Ibn Abd al-Barr (d. 462 AH) mentined in his writing abut al-Qa'qa:
"Sayf reported that al-Qa'qa Said: I attended the death of the Prophet
Muhammad." Ibn Adb al-Barr continued: "Ibn Abu Hatam said: Sayf is
weak. Thus, what was conveyed of the presence of al-Qa'qa at the death
of the Prophet is rejected. We mentioned the Sayf's traditions for
knowledge only."

(9) al-Darqutini (d. 385 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak".

(10) Firoozabadi (d. 817 AH) in "Towalif" mentioned Sayf and some others by
saying: "They are weak."

(11) Ibn al-Sakan (d. 353 AH) wrote: "Sayf is weak."

(12) Safi al-Din (d. 923 AH) wrote: "Sayf is considered weak."

(13) Ibn Udei (d. 365 AH) wrote about Sayf: "He is weak. Some of his
narrations are famous yet the majority of his narrations are
disgraceful and not followed."

(14) al-Suyuti (d. 900 AH) wrote: "Sayf's Hadith is weak."

(15) Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani (d. 852 AH) wrote after mentioning a tradition:
"Many reporters of this tradition are weak, and the weakest among them
is Sayf."

It is interesting to see that although al-Dhahabi (d. 748 AH) has quoted
from the book of Sayf in his History, he has mentioned in his other book
that Sayf as a weak narrator. In "al-Mughni fi al-Dhu'afa'" al-Dhahabi
wrote:

 "Sayf has two books which have been unanimously abandoned by the
 scholars." (al-Mughni fi al-Dhu'afa', by al-Dhahabi, p292)

The result of the investigation into Sayf's life shows that Sayf was an
agnostic and an unreliable story teller. Stories told by him are dubious
and are entirely or partly forged. In his stories, he has used names of
cities which never existed in the world. Abdullah Ibn Saba are the star of
those stories. He also introduced some 150 imaginary companions for the
Prophet to fill out the empty characters of his scenarios, by giving them
some strange names which are not found in any other documents. Also the
timing of the events given by Sayf's narrations contradict the authentic
Sunni documents. Sayf has also used imaginary chains of narrators, and
reported many miraculous events (like talking cows with human etc...).

Some of the defenders of Sayf hold the opinion that eventhough he was known
as a weak transmitter and many scholars of Hadith do not trust his reports,
it is only in the matter of the Shari'ah (the Law), but not in the matter
of historical report!

By that, they want to rely on the "historical" stories of someone who was
regarded a liar and "zindeeq"! If the problem of Sayf was just lack of
knowledge about Shari'ah (divine law), one could say he can be trusted on
other accounts. But the problem with Sayf was that he was a liar, and made
lots of forgery by constructing the events, attributed fabricated
traditions to good narrators. Then such person becomes questionable for
almost everything. As for his historical accounts we will witness in
Part V that even Christian historians have confirmed great inconsistencies
between his historical report and other sober transmitters. No need to
mention Sunni and Shia opinion on the heretical nature of Sayf.

================================================
The stories about Abdullah Ibn Saba which do

NOT have any source or any chain of transmitters

There are some reports from both Shia and Sunni scholars, historians, and
story tellers of ancient cultures who wrote few lines about Abdullah Ibn
Saba but did not supply any evidence for their claims, nor did they provide
any chain of supportive authorities (isnad) for their reports to be
examined.
For instance, their reports start with: "some people say so and so ..." or
"some scholars say so and so ..." without mentioning who that scholar was,
and where they got it from. It was based on rumor which was propagated by
Umayads (AFTER Sayf's work) which had reached them, and some based on the
authors' own creativity. This is inferred when we see these authors have
reported some legends which are clearly false and rejected by logic. These
reports are provided by those who wrote books about "al-Milal wa Nihal"
(stories about civilizations and cultures) or "al-Firaq" (divisions/sects).

Among the Sunnis who mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba in their
stories WITHOUT bringing any source for their claims, are:

(1) Ali Ibn Isma'il al-Ash'ari (d. 330) in his book "Maqalat al-
Islamiyin" (Essays about the People of Islam).

(2) Abdul-Qahir Ibn Tahir al-Baghdadi (d. 429) in his book "al-Farq Bain
al-Firaq" (Differences of the Sects).

(3) Muhammad Ibn Abdil-Karim al-Shahrastani (d. 548) in his book "al-Milal
wan Nihal" (Nations and Cultures).

The above mentioned Sunnis do not give any source or any chain of authority
for their story about Abdullah Ibn Saba. They have competed with each other
to increase the number of sects in Islam with strange names such as al-
Kawusiyyah, al-Tayyarah, al-Mamturah, al-Ghrabiyyah, al-Ma'lumiyyah !!,
al-Majhuliyyah !!! and so on WITHOUT giving any source or reference for
their claims. Living in medieval times, these authors presumed that writing
stranger stories and attributing unrealistic events to different Muslim
nations will make them more reputable than the other competitors in this
area. And by that, they caused a tragic damage to the history of Islam and
committed a great crime for what they have falsely attributed to the Muslim
nations.

Some of them have provided silly legends and fairy-tales whose falsehood
are easy to detect nowadays, though it would have been possible for them to
succeed in passing off such stories as history in those times. For
instance, al-Shahrastani in his book "al-Milal wan Nihal" has mentioned
that there was a group of semi-human creatures in the name of "al-Nas-Naas"
with only half face, one eye, one hand, and one leg. Muslims could talk to
these semi-human creatures and they even exchanged poetry!!! Some Muslims
even used to go hunting these semi-human creatures and they used to eat
them!!! These semi-humans could jump faster than a horse and were
ruminant/cud- chewers!!! al-Shahrastani further mentioned that al-
Mutawakkil, the Abbasid Caliph, ordered the scientists of his time to
investigate about these creatures!!! (See al-Milal wan Nihal, by al-
Sharastani)

People at that time did not have the modern tools that would enable them
to discover the falsehood these unrealistic stories and fairy-tales, and
perhaps they would have preferred more extensive and more strange
collections which may have seemed a guarantee of their accuracy, eventhough
they were provided with no reference.

Also by chronological study of the life time of these authors, we can
conclude that ALL of them were long after the era of Sayf Ibn Umar, and
even after al-Tabari. So it is quite possible that they all got the story
of Abdullah Ibn Saba from Sayf. This claim becomes more strong when one
observes that non of them mentioned the source of their reports which might
be due to the fact that Sayf Ibn Umar's scandal was known to every body by
that time and they did not want to discredit their books by mentioning its
source. Moreover there exists NO document available related to Abdullah Ibn
Saba BEFORE Sayf. The scholars or historians who lived before Sayf Ibn Umar
NEVER mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba in their books. This shows
that if Ibn Saba ever existed he was not anything important for the
historians before Sayf. This is also another reason to believe that what
was propagated around the personality of Abdullah Ibn Saba was initiated
by the mass propaganda of Sayf Ibn Umar al-Tamimi.

Among the Shia who mentioned the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba but without any
information regarding to their source, are the following two historians:

(1) Sa'ad Ibn Abdillah al-Ash'ari al-Qummi (d. 301) in his book "al-Maqalat
wal-Firaq" mentioned a report in which there exists the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. But he did not mention any chain of authorities nor
did he mention from whom (or which book) he got the story and what his
source was. Moreover al-Ash'ari al-Qummi has narrated many traditions
from Sunni authorities. al-Najjashi (d. 450) in his "al-Rijal" said
that al-Ash'ari al-Qummi traveled to many places and was well-known
for his relation with Sunni historians and heard many stories from
them. He wrote many weak reports from what he heard, one of which is
a short story about Abdullah Ibn Saba, with no reference.

(2) Hasan Ibn Musa al-Nawbakhti (d. 310) who was a Shia historian who
provided in his book "al-Firaq" a report in which is the name of
Abdullah Ibn Saba. However he never mentioned from whom he got the
report and what his source was.

The above two were the Shia who originally provided some information about
the existence of an accursed man in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba at the
time of Imam Ali (AS). Notice that all of them reported these information
long after Sayf Ibn Umar and even after al-Tabari wrote his history. Thus
they might perhaps got the information from Sayf or those who quoted from
him such as al-Tabari. This becomes more probable when we see that they
wrote "Some people say so and so..." without giving any documented support
(isnad) or the name of those "some people"!

==========================================
Reports about Abdullah Ibn Saba which

were NOT transmitted through Sayf Ibn Umar

We should point out however that there are less than 14 reports available
in the collections of Shia and Sunni which mentions the name of Abdullah
Ibn Saba, and are supplied with the chain of authorities, but in their
chain of authorities the name of Sayf does not exist.

As for the Shia, he was al-Kushshi (or al-Keshshi; also abbreviated as
Kash) (d. 369) who wrote his book "Rijal" in 340 AH. In that book he
mentioned few traditions in which there exists the name of Abdullah Ibn
Saba, from the Imams of Ahlul-Bayt which were quoted below. As we will see,
these traditions give a very different picture than those mentioned by
Sayf. However, it has been proven for Shia scholars that the book of al-Kashshi
has some errors, especially in the names and also few errors in quotations.
His book also contains some weak traditions, and as a result, it is not a
fully reliable source for the Shia. Not to mention that the reports of al-Kushshi
(Kash) are not found in any of the major 4-books of tradition for Shia. (For
a critical evaluation of his errors, please see al-Rijal by al-Tusteri as
well as al-Askari.)

Other Shia scholars who mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba, have quoted al-Kushshi
or the two historians mentioned above (i.e., al-A'sh'ari al-Qummi and al-
Nawbakhti who did not provide any chain of transmitters or any source for
their report). Among those who quoted al-Kushshi (Kash) are: Shaikh al-Tusi
(d. 460), Ahmad Ibn Tawoos (d. 673), Allama al-Hilli (d. 726), etc.

As for the Sunnis, beside those who quoted from Sayf Ibn Umar whose names
were given earlier, there are few reports from Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani which
provide the very similar information of what al-Kushshi (Kash) provided
(see below).

For these very few Shi'i and Sunni reports, we would like to mention the
following points:

  1. The story that these few Sunni and Shia traditions provide, are totally
    different than the heavy narrations propagated by Sayf Ibn Umar. These
    tradition say that there was a poor man in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba
    appeared AT THE TIME OF government of Imam Ali (AS). He claimed that he was
    a Prophet and Ali was God, and as soon as Imam Ali heard the news, he
    imprisoned him, and asked him to repent. He did not do so, and thus, Imam
    Ali ordered to burn him. The traditions confirm that Imam Ali and his
    descendants cursed this man and disassociated themselves from his claim of
    deity for Imam Ali (AS). This is all there is about it, provided that
    these few traditions are genuine in the first place.

  2. These few (less than 14) traditions do NOT exist in any authentic book.
    In fact, there is NO mention of Abdullah Ibn Saba in ANY of the six
    authentic
    Sunni collections (Sihah). Moreover, these few reports were NEVER rated
    authentic
    by Shia or Sunni scholars, and there is a great possibility that a person
    in the name of Abdullah Ibn Saba never existed in the world, and was the
    total invention of Sayf Ibn Umar, similar to his invention of 150 imaginary
    companions for the Prophet (PBUH&HF) which do not exist in any other
    independent report. Granted that Abdullah Ibn Saba ever existed, Sayf has
    used his character and attributed many events to him for which there exists
    NO SIMILAR REPORT by other Sunni narrators. Not only that, but also Sayf's
    reports clearly contradict other reports by the Sunnis, as we will show in
    this part and the next parts. Such malicious construction of the events
    were easy to detect even by the Sunni scholars.

Now, let me give you some of these few traditions which have NOT been
reported by Sayf, and compare what Sayf attributed to Abdullah Ibn Saba.
As for Shia:

It is attributed to Abu Ja'far (AS) saying:

 Abdullah Ibn Saba used to claim being a prophet and claimed that The
 Commander of Believers, Ali (AS) is God.   Allah is Higher than such
 (claim). This news reached to The Commander of Believers (AS), so he
 called him and questioned him. But he repeated his claims and said:
 "You are Him (i.e., God), and it has been revealed to me that you are
 God and I am a prophet." So The Commander of Believers (AS) said: "How
 dare you! Satan has made a mockery of you. Repent for what you
 said. May your mother weep at your death! Quit (your claim)."  But he
 refused, so (Imam Ali) imprisoned him and asked him three times to
 repent, but he didn't. Thus he burnt him with fire and said: "Satan
 had taken him into his whim, he used to come to him and to induce
 these (thoughts) in him." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

Moreover it is reported that Imam Ali Ibn Husain (AS) said:

 "May the curse of Allah be upon those who tell lies about us. I
 mentioned Abdullah Ibn Saba and each hair in my body stood up, Allah
 cursed him. Ali (AS) was, by Allah, a proper servant of Allah, the
 brother of the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF). He did not earn the
 graciousness/honor from Allah except with the obedience to Allah and
 His Messenger. And (similarly) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) did
 not earn the honor from Allah except with his obedience to Allah."
 (Rijal, by al-KuShshi)

It is reported that Abu Abdillah (AS) said:

 "We are a family of truthfulness. But we are not safe from a liar
 telling lies about us to undermine our truth with his lies in front of
 people. The Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) was the most truthful among
 people in what he said (Lahjatan) and the most truthful among all
 humanity; and Musaylima used to lie on him. The Commander of Believers
 (AS) was the most truthful one among the creation of Allah after the
 Messenger of Allah; and the one who used to lie on him, and tried to
 undermine his truthfulness and claimed lies about Allah, was Abdullah
 Ibn Saba." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

Also:

 "As he (Aba Abdillah - Ja'far al-Sadiq) was telling his companions in
 the subject of Abdullah Ibn Saba and that he claimed in Godness of The
 Commander of Believers, Ali Ibn Abi Talib. He said: When he claimed
 that in Ali, he asked him to repent and he refused, so he burnt him
 with fire." (Rijal, by al-Kushshi)

As for the Sunnis, few reports from Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani which provide the
very similar information of what al-Kushshi (Kash) provided. Ibn Hajar
mentioned:

 "Abdullah Ibn Saba was one of the extremist (al-Ghulat),
 dualist/seducee/manichaeist (Zindeeq), and misguided, which is
 conveyed that Ali burnt him with fire." (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar
 al-Asqalani, v3, p289)

Then Ibn Hajar continues:

 "Ibn Asakir mentioned in his History that `his origin (Abdullah
 Ibn Saba) was from Yemen and that he was a Jew who adopted Islam and
 traveled in the cities of Muslims and preached them to disobey their
 rulers, to induce evil amongst them, then he entered Damascus for that
 purpose.' Then Ibn Asakir mentioned a LONG STORY from the book of
 al-Futooh of Sayf Ibn Umar, which does not have correct support/
 authorities (isnad)." (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani,
 v3, p289)

Then Ibn Hajar gives a tradition among whose chain of authorities two
individuals are missing. In footnote he says that its has been dropped.
This is the tradition:

 "Ali ascended the pulpit and said: What is wrong with him? people
 said: He is denying (or lying upon) Allah and His Messenger." (Lisan
 al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p289)

In another tradition, Ibn Hajar reported:

 "Ali said to Abdullah Ibn Saba: I have been told that there shall be
 thirty liars/imposters (who claim prophethood) and your are one of
 them" (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p290)

He also wrote:

 "Ibn Saba and his followers believed in the deity of Ali Ibn Abi
 Talib, and certainly Ali burnt them by fire during his rule."
 (Lisan al-Mizan, by Ibn Hajar al-Asqalani, v3, p290)

These Sunni traditions were not rated authentic either. The total of these
tradition by both Shia and Sunni (reported by other than Sayf), do not
exceed fourteen at most. They will be even less if you remove repetitions.
These few Sunnite and Shi'ite traditions convey that:

  1. Abdullah Ibn Saba appeared during the Caliphate of Imam Ali (AS), and
    not during the rule of Uthman as Sayf alleged.

  2. Abdullah Ibn Saba did not say that Ali is the successor of Prophet
    (PBUH&HF) as Sayf claimed. Rather he said Ali (AS) is God.

  3. Imam Ali (AS) burnt him along with all other extremists (al-Ghulat).
    This is while Sayf does not state such a thing.

  4. There is no mention of his existence or his playing a role at the time
    of Uthman. There is no mention of his agitation against Uthman which
    ended up with assassination of Uthman as Sayf attributed to Abdullah Ibn
    Saba.

  5. There is no mention of the role of Abdullah Ibn Saba in the battle of
    Camel as Sayf attributed to him.

  6. These traditions do not indicate that any righteous companions of
    Prophet followed Abdullah Ibn Saba. This is while Sayf maliciously
    alleged that some of the most faithful pioneers of Islam such as Abu
    Darr (RA) and Ammar Yasir (RA) were the students of Abdullah Ibn Saba
    during the reign of Uthman.

====================================================

al-Saba'iya and the Multiple personality of Ibn Saba

Since pre-Islamic times, the term "Saba'iya" used to indicate those related
to Saba son of Yashjub, son of Ya'rub, son of Qahtan; synonymous to
"Qahtaniya", also used to be known as "Yamaniya" referencing their place of
origin, Yemen.

This group of people (i.e., Saba'iya/Qahtaniya/Yamaniya) in contrast to the
"Adnaniya", "Nazariya" and "Mudhariya", which used to refer to relation to
Mudhar son of Nazar, son of Adnan, from the sons of Ishmael (AS) the son of
Abraham (AS). There were some allies for each tribe who were under
protection of that tribe, and at times they were referred by the name of
that tribe.

In general, Arabs trace their roots to one of these two major tribes. When
the two tribes joined in Medina to create what became the first Islamic
society led by the Prophet(PBUH&HF) (year 0 AH), those related to Qahtan
were named al-Ansar (Helpers) who were the residents of Medina at that
time; and those from Adnan and their allies who traveled to Medina and were
called al-Muhajireen (Immigrants).

The personality Abdullah bin Wahab al-Saba'i, the first leader of al-
Khawarij (the group which opposed Ali (AS) during his rule), was from the
first tribe, the Saba'iya or Qhatan above. As the friction increased
between the two tribes of Adnan and Qahtan in Medina and Kufa, the Adhanies
reportedly used to nickname the Qhantanies by the term Saba'iya. However,
this name-calling was purely tribal and ethnical until the appearance of
the work of Sayf Ibn Umar (of Adnan) in the beginning of the second century
(AH) during the Umayad rule, in Kufa. Sayf took the advantage of this
purely tribal friction and created the mythical Saba'iya religious entity,
with Abdullah Ibn Saba as its leader, altering the meaning of the tribal
reference to Qahtan to that of the ill inference attributed to Abdullah Ibn
Saba's deviant sect.

To come up with the alleged name of the creator of the sect (Abdullah Ibn
Saba), Sayf Ibn Umar either transposed the name Abdullah (bin Wahab) al-
Saba'i, described above, to Abdullah Ibn Saba as appears from reports by al-
Ash'ari, al-Sama'ani and al-Maqrizi; or he created the story and invented
the name on his own altogether. Either way, there was no strong proof for
the existence to Abdullah Ibn Saba during the time of Uthman and Ali,
except as Abdullah bin Wahab al-Saba'i who was the leader of Khawarij, as
mentioned earlier.

One also finds that "Saba'i" tag in persons' names, who belong to the
tribes of Qahtan, ceased especially in Iraq, the origin of the fairy tale,
after that date. This naming convention then continued throughout the
second and third century (AH) in the areas of Yemen, Egypt and Spain, where
a number of Sunni Hadith narrators (including some of the narrators of the
traditions in six Sunni collections) were labeled Saba'i due to their
relation to Saba Ibn Yashjub and not Abdullah Ibn Saba the Jew who created
disturbance per Sayf's allegations.

Later as the books of the Tabari and others spread the fairy tale across
the land, the naming convention of Saba'i was dropped every where. Whence
this mention in the books is used to indicate a following to Abdullah Ibn
Saba alone, even though they never enjoyed existence outside the covers of
those books. The tale evolved over the years to include a multiple of its
creator's persona and beliefs. At the same time, while Abdullah Ibn Saba
was Ibn al-Sawda' to the inventor of the tale (Sayf), you find them
becoming two separate persons around the 5th century, along with the
variation in their news (see "al-Farq" by Abdul-Qahir Ibn Tahir al-
Baghdadi). We can delimit these variations in the fifth century onwards,
in three personalites:

  1. Abdullah bin Wahab al-Saba'i, head of the Khawarij, who opposed Imam
    Ali (AS).

  2. Abdullah Ibn Saba who established the Saba'iya clan/group which
    believes in the deity of Ali. He and his followers were burnt with fire
    shortly after.

  3. Abdullah Ibn Saba, also known as Ibn al-Sawda' to those who reported
    from Sayf. He was the creator of the Saba'iya clan/group who believed
    in successorship to Ali, who agitated against Uthman and then they
    started the war of Jamal (Camel).

The first one existed in reality, and some of the traditions related to
Abdullah Ibn Saba actually refers to this man who was the leader of al-
Khawarij. For the second person, there are few traditions which was
mentioned earlier, yet they were not authenticated by either schools.
The third personage, however, was the imagination of Sayf who perhaps
invented it based on the original story he heard about the first and the
second persons, and then attaching his own story to them.

=================

Ibn Saba and Shia

One should distinguish between those Sunnis scholars who reported the story
of Abdullah Ibn Saba (either from Sayf's mass production (such as al-
Tabari)
or otherwise (such as Ibn Hajar)), and those pseudo-Sunnis who not only
reported it, but also declared that Shia are the followers of this
fictitious character. It has been proven that those pseudo-scholars (i.e.,
the second group) who attributed the foundation of Shia to Abdullah Ibn
Saba were never Sunnis. They were rather the followers of Sunnah of the
House of Abu Sufyan and Marwan. This is clear when one observes their
tendencies to these two families when they discuss their history.

When these pseudo-scholars want to talk about Imami Shia, they use the word
of al-Saba'iyyah to undermine the devotion of the followers of the Members
of the House of Prophet (PBUH&HF) to Islam, in the same way that they
undermine the devotion of a group of Muslims who were killed in the reign
of Abu Bakr since they followed what the Messenger of Allah ordered them in
distributing the Zakat (alms) among their own poor people and thus did not
give it to Abu Bakr. Yet these mercenary scholars, when talking about those
people, they mix them with the issue of Musaylamah who claimed Prophethood,
and attribute these martyrs to him, in order to justify shedding their
bloods, plundering their wealth and taking their women. But Allah will soon
judge between us and them, for He is the best judge.

Such blending of falsehood and truth is not anything new for us when we see
in today's world of technology those who see Islam a barrier for their
illegitimate interest in the world, accuse Muslims of terrorism, in order
to justify shedding their bloods and taking their wealth. To prepare their
agenda, they take advantage of some foolish individual(s) who happened to
be Muslim in ID, and who did a violation out of his/their anger. They call
devoted Muslims terrorists because a pseudo-Sunni-Muslim blew up the World
Trade Center. By that, they follow exactly the footsteps of Sayf Ibn Umar
who in turn learnt this great idea from the devil. Moreover, if they could
not find any foolish act from Muslims to cover the media at any period,
they pay money to emulate it artificially, and attribute it to the Muslims,
much the same way that Sayf Ibn Umar shaped the character of Abdullah Ibn
Saba (and most probably invented him by picking up his name at the middle
of the night). They do this to provide an excuse for their malicious
accusations and their attacks to the whole Muslim world, much the same as
what Sayf and his disciples did to the House of Prophet (PBUH&HF).

According to both Shia and Sunni scholars, Sayf Ibn Umar was one of those
who manipulated the truth and made some fake traditions based on some
partial truth. Believing in the existence of Ibn Saba does not mean
believing in the stories of Sayf who tried to relate him to Shia. The fact
is that people like Abdullah Ibn Saba are useless without a story attached
to their names. Fake stories around such characters are different than
their
actual existence. Such a person might be existent while the stories around
him might not be.

================================

Sayf's Achievements: An Overview

What follows in this article and the next parts of this series is a
comparison between Sayf's stories and others. First I give a general view
of achievements of Sayf Ibn Umar:

Sayf was paid to write some stories as a relief for the contradictions and
disputes happened in the early history of Islam. Those critical disputes
were from year 11 AH (demise of Prophet) till 40 AH. Sayf only focused on
that period (11-40 AH) and left the rest.

The first dispute he has talked about is the dispute related the dispatch
of the army of Usamah and the death of prophet. The Prophet (PBUH&HF),
about four days before his death, ordered all Helpers and all Immigrants
except Ali to leave Medina, and to go Syria in order to fight with the
Romans. But companions disobeyed and complained about the leadership of
Usamah (See Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English version, Traditions
numbers 5.552, 5.744 and 5.745) and delayed in joining the camp, and
finally
returned to Medina, in order to prepare themselves for discussion about
successorship as soon as the Messenger of Allah dies. Sayf tried to forge
the story to show that there was no delay. Sayf said that after the death
of Prophet, when Abu Bakr dispatched the army of Usamah, he said to them:

 "March on! May God destroy you by murder and plague!"

Sunni references: History of al-Tabari and History of Ibn Asakir, reported
from Sayf, Events of Year 11 AH

This is while other narrators never mentioned such a stupid thing from Abu
Bakr. Sayf being a heretic, wanted to make a mockery of Islam as a
religion, as well as to please the Caliph of his time.

The next thing he has talked, is about the pavilion of Saqifa. Sayf
reported that:

 "Ali was in his house when he was told that Abu Bakr had sat to
 receive the oath of allegiance. So He went out immediately wearing his
 night shirt only, out of dislike that he might be late. Then He gave
 the oath of allegiance and sat with Abu Bakr, and then sent for his
 clothes. When (the clothes) were brought to him, he put them and
 stayed in (Abu Bakr's) assembly."

Sunni reference: History of al-Tabari, English version, v9, pp 195-196
reported from Sayf Ibn Umar.

This ridiculous report is in clear contradiction with Sahih al-Bukhari
where it has been mentioned that Imam Ali did NOT give the oath to Abu Bakr
for the first six month of his reign (Sahih al- Bukhari, Arabic-English
version, Tradition 5.546).

Sayf has told seven stories about Saqifa, and has used three imaginary
characters as the companions of prophet who played his scenarios in Saqifa,
whose names are not mentioned anywhere else except in the work of those who
reported from Sayf himself. He named them: Qa'qa, Mubashshir, and Sakhr.

His main legend is the malicious stories attributed to Abdullah Ibn Saba,
by which he had tried to solved the following puzzles:

   -Creation of Shia
   -Problem of exile of Abu Dhar
   -Murder of Uthman
   -The War of Jamal (Camel)

Sayf has also maliciously tried to link the forged stories of Abdullah Ibn
Saba to the Shia Imam Ali (AS) which shows he did not know too much about
Shia, otherwise he would not had attributed some of the beliefs which are
not held by the followers of the members of the house of Prophet.

Insha Allah, in the next parts, I will analyze the fictitious story of
Abdullah Ibn Saba in comparison with the other Sunni reports.

I should mention that al-Askari had a very distinguished achievement. He
proved beyond any doubt, in his book named "Abdullah Ibn Saba and Other
Myths", that Ibn Saba with such achievements never existed, and that he
was invented by Sayf Ibn Umar. If there was any Abdullah Ibn Saba at that
time, his story was much different than what Sayf manipulated.

For brothers and sisters who like to know more about the business of
Abdullah Ibn Saba and his fictitious character, I introduce the following
two interesting books, in English, which can be ordered immediately:

1- "Abdullah Ibn Saba and Other Myths," (English) by al-Askari, S. M.
To order, send $15.00 to:
al-Khoei Foundation Library,
89-89 Van Wyck Expressway,
Jamaica, NY 11435-4123 U.S.A.

Unfortunately only first volume, out of four volumes of this book is
available in English which still gives enough information, however the rest
are available in Arabic. The second two volumes in Arabic are separately
named "One Hundred Fifty Companions".

2- "The Shiites Under Attack," (English) by Chirri, M. J.
To order, send $8.00 to:
Muhammad Javad Chirri,
The Islamic Center of America,
15571 Joy Road,
Detroit, MI 48228 U.S.A.

You can read the rest of the parts at
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter10/

Then I might be having some stupid discussion in gupshup religion forum

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/tongue.gif

Muawiyyah is a creep. I dont have to be a shia to know this fact.

**opppss…sorry to offend anyone who think Muawiyyah is rightly guided.

You shias are denying your own sources!!!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

A1shah, if your shia scholars lied about this Abdullah Bin Saba, isn’t it feasible that they lied about other crucial things in Shia-ism? Such as, how infallible your Imaams are? And other matters which I mentioned in my last reply IF you have already read it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

What is the truth? Only Allaah knows.

Tell me one thing: Who ever opposes Shias, why is that person automatically labeled a wahabi? If that is the case, then I am a wahabi(according to you) try to live with it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif

But, you know I feel I am much better than you are, you know why? There are many reasons, some are:
-I don’t have to curse sahaba to be able to go to janaat, unlike shias.
-I don’t have to follow some fictitious infalliable Imaams so that I will be considered a Muslim, unlike shias.
-I don’t exaggerate my love for Hazrat Ali and other great personalities of Islam so that I might be considered a good Muslim and occupant of Jaanaat, unlike shias.
-I don’t have to hurt my self like an animal so that my love for family of the prophet and Hazrat ali can be “SEEN,” unlike shias.
-I don’t have to ask some dead imaam for help when there is Allaah available in all times and I can ask Allaah for help directly without asking someone, unlike Shias.

I just had to make this clear, I hope you had fun reading it. Now, this abdullah bin sabah, well debate between me and you*(if there was any, you were busy observing whether I was wahabi or something else..hehe)* is over. I gave you references, go and research it, instead of posting these cut and pastes.

See you in some other thread…bye.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

p.s - Babydoll, what you know about Islamic history? Have you read all the ahaadeeths about this matter and what Prophet Muhammed(saw) predicted about Muawiyaa and what led to this whole crisis? SuNi-SuNaii baat paR yaQeeNn naheeN kaRteY, especially matters concerning Islam.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


“I am not playing with a full deck!”

[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited July 22, 2001).]