Abdullah Bin Sabah.........Who?

Abdul Basit,

I grow up believing that Muawiyyah was among 10 people who prophet said that Allah was pleased with them and has promised Jannah.

Then when I read Islamic History (sunni-shia, independent source) whatever…I found him to be a very ambitious man.

He was a “King”. And he made sure all his children inherit an Islamic empire.

I guess as a politician he was very successful and would even put the Muslim leaders of today into shame.

And yes, he was fairly a religious Man.

Made sure we had all our “73” sects.

I want peace between Shia, Sunni, Wahhabi, and Ahmadi whatever…

And truth would be nice too.

[quote]
Originally posted by babydoll:
**

Really? Muahwiyaa created 73 sects? WOW, I did not know that. References?

Truth is nice, if a person can handle it.

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif


“I am not playing with a full deck!”

See… Our forefather knew that we Muslim of today will go astray over minor issue (like Abdullah Ibn Saba), so he create an Institute of Islamic Study. The main purpose was too Safe Guard the interest of Muslim population, I believe.

You can check about this Institute, it was very popular. They produce splendid scholar, like Abu Hurairah(May Allah be please with them all).

In real world, we know what happen when a University or an institute become under the patronage of a political party or government influence …

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

Did you ever see our Rightly Guided Caliphs ever giving grants to scholar or making an institute for the scholar?

They believe that religious scholar shouldn’t be control by the government.

But Muawiyah and his dumb plan made scholars greedy for money and position.

Hence the start of sects … As we know, they were no sects in the time of prophet and rightly guided caliphs but after that sects start mushrooming.

Abdul Basit,

unlike your name, you are a somewhat unreasonable fellow.

Shi’a scholars are not infallible, they too can be inaccurate, even untruthful. Just because someone calls himself “Shi’a scholar” doesn’t mean he becomes infallible.

BTW, you don’t have to follow 12 Imams to be considered a Muslim. If you follow them, you become a good Muslim though.

Also, they are not fictitious. Such a statement reveals the height of ignorance.

Sunnis don’t oppose Shi’as, they are just largely ignorant.

Active opposition to Shi’as is spearheaded by Wahabis, who may know more about Shi’a than the Sunnis do, but will do everything to spread lies, misinformation, and hatred, in order to keep other people ignorant about Shi’aism.

Nobody is exagerrating their love for anyone. You just have to learn. Keep reading.

Basit,

I am not aware of your level of education, so I'll try once again:

Which part of my post didn't you understand ? The shia scholar quoted an unnamed source, probably from sunni scholars, who had cursed Abdullah bin Saba 200 years before this shia scholar ever mentioned his name.

So why do you keep insisting that he lied ? He mentioned of a CHARACTER named Abdullah bin Saba. So what ? And without any chain of narrators, such sayings have no weight, even though what he mentioned was benign to begin with.

And why do you ignore clear shia sayings of the holy imams (as) showing the punishment dealth to Abdullah bin Saba for his blasphemy ?

Other sunni brothers/sisters - am I confusing everyone or is it just that its falling on Basit's deaf ears.

Stop relying on wahabi propaganda and search for the truth.

ws

[This message has been edited by a1shah (edited July 22, 2001).]

The height of ignorance.

For you, accepting the rulings of the majority makes your understanding valid.

However, for shias, you wish to ignore the rulings of our majority shia scholars, and base your false understanding on the weakest comment of one scholar in some book.

Kia baat hain.

[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**

Stop relying on wahabi propaganda and search for the truth.

**
[/quote]

Ibrahim says ; salaams.

Anyway that question also applies to you, for all shia’s deny the Qur’an which means they deny Allah, which means they deny Qur’an.

Now how is this you may wonder??. It is simple to understand actually.

1) Initially they claimed their Qur’an was three times larger than the current and is kept by the 12th Imam who disappeared when he was five years old( imagine a five old can become an imam and a infallible one at that??)

Now the story seems to be, that Ali (ra) had compiled the Qur’an as revealed to the Prophet (pbuh) hence the current Qur’an has its verses in varying order, since it was compiled by Uthman(ra).

What this means is that, shias are denying Allah’s own words on how the Qur’an will be compiled after the Prophet (pbuh) .

For Allah (swt) revealed to the Prophet that, Iqra!

Surah 75:
16 Move not thy tongue concerning the (Qur'an) to make haste therewith. 5820

17 It is for Us to collect it and to promulgate it:

18 But when We have promulgated it follow thou its recital (as promulgated):

Hence the compilation was done by Allah (swt), which they deny when they claim Ali (ra) has the correct one.

2) You see Allah ( swt) conveyed that HE had blessed/favored the closest of companions (the First four caliphs in particular will fall in this category) in the Qur’an and anyone who doubts this have denied the Qur’an and hence forth denied Allah (swt)

3) Allah (swt) further conveyed that HE alone will judge mankind and will not even allow the least bit of injustice on anyone and all will be judge accordingly. That means all those that had sinned will NEVER escape from getting their appropriate punishments and rewards.

Here are the shia brethrens in the year 2001 trying to convict people that lived in the 7th century ( whom neither of us have ever met) based on “hearsay” or by blind faith.

First by its very design of passing judgments on our ancestors, ( all human beings come from one creation of a male and female) amounts to a sin, since Judgment on them can Only be done By Allah (swt) and not by man.

Second the evidence presented for it is what we may consider as selective history which are written by groups of people who may or may not be trust worthy.

Which mean shias have again gone against Allah’s commandments ..Iqra!

Surah 22:

69 "Allah will judge between you on the Day of Judgment concerning the matters in which ye differ." 2850

70 Knowest thou not that Allah knows all that is in heaven and on earth? ** Indeed it is all in a record and that is easy for Allah **

Again Iqra!

39: 46 *Say: "O Allah! Creator of the heavens and the earth! Knower of all that is hidden and open! It is Thou that wilt judge between Thy Servants in those matters about which they have differed *." 4314

commentary:

4314 The mysteries of life and death, of worship and spiritual growth, are matters of high moment, which it may be difficult for us to apprehend in this present life. ** It is no use arguing about them and plunging in endless controversies. The proper attitude is to appeal to Allah humbly to accept our purified hearts and Faith, in the firm hope that everything which is now vague to us will be cleared up in the Hereafter, and to pray to Him for His guidance and mercy.** (39.46)

Now since shias persist in trying to convey that they are aware that the facts are such and such , are they not telling us that “they alone are a knower of the truth” when there is no such possibility for them or their imams to make such claims??

This again amounts to denying the Qur’an and denying Allah (swt)

So the question is what are Muslims enjoined to do???

Allah (swt) enjoined this

2:177 ** It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces toward East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in Allah and the Last Day and the Angels and the Book and the Messengers; to spend of your substance out of love for Him for your kin for orphans for the needy for the wayfarer for those who ask and for the ransom of slaves; to be steadfast in prayer and practice regular charity; to fulfil the contracts which ye have made; and to be firm and patient in pain (or suffering) and adversity and throughout all periods of panic. Such are the people of truth the Allah-fearing. **

Ibrahim says; Hence there is no righteousness in proclaiming that my imam are better than yours or mine was born in the ka’ bah and your was on earth, mine was infallible and yours is not…how silly can one get ??

Did you know only the Judeo-Christian have a doctrine that centered on 12 patriarchs , 12 apostles, 12 tribes and it ended with them since The Priesthood ends with the coming of our Prophet (pbuh)

Islam is about enjoining right conduct and forbidding wrong conduct , Only on account of this I am pursuing your falsehoods to expose its fitnah .

** I hope shia’s understand that they are clearly denying the Qur’an meaning denying Allah (swt) **

Learn from the past NOT live in it!!!

Will you be posting this identical message on every thread ?

I've seen it in 2 topics already.

Bros
After two days' break I have read your posts.

I have noticied two things.
Either Shia bros totally deny Ibn-e-Saba existed
but when get an answer like Abdu Basit's then they start explaining that they don't have any link with Saba.

If that is the case then why do you strain yourself.

And Bro a1shah and alizadeh2000.....
Please rethink about the language you use in your posts, because I read all posts either they match with my sect or not and decent language has got an effect but bad language minimises the effect of your post.

Wasir,

Read my posts once again.

Why is the english standard of yr entire group below par ?

Neither shias nor sunnis know whether such a man existed.

And if he did, both shia and sunni sources - very few of them that there are - suggest that he was of the Ghulat - one who claimed divinity for himself.

Read with an open mind.

You and yr friends are in no position to dictate good behavior.

ws

As I said I try to read all posts in a thread where I am involved, nevermind they support Sunni beliefs or not.

You can carry on with your style I don't mind.
I only tried to tell you so that I don't have to scroll down your posts as I normally do with this type of posts...
caz sometimes you raise some good points but they lose their effect due to sharp language.

take care

[quote]
Originally posted by a1shah:
**Wasir,

Read my posts once again.

Why is the english standard of yr entire group below par ?

Neither shias nor sunnis know whether such a man existed.

And if he did, both shia and sunni sources - very few of them that there are - suggest that he was of the Ghulat - one who claimed divinity for himself.

Read with an open mind.

You and yr friends are in no position to dictate good behavior.

ws**
[/quote]