Lately, there has been a lot of debate about ABCD and FOBs on this forum. I happen to be living in USA for almost 10 years. I came here as a student, finished my school, started working and during all these years had many experiences with ABCDs and Fobs. Out of these 10 years I spend many years in Chicago, which is a strong center of desis. Here is my 2 cents on this issue.
First, in my opinion, mentality has nothing to do with a country. Every country has its own share of open minded and close-minded people. I guess the mentality of a person has a lot to do with the education and family background. A lot depends upon your family values, background and education. If a desi is born and raised in USA in an uneducated family with no moral values instilled in him, don’t expect him to be a cultured or open-minded person and vice versa. Honestly speaking, I have met so many desis in last 10 years in Chicago and NY who were born and raised in USA and it was difficult to spent 5 minutes with them. They were so disgusting as well as close-minded. Most of them never traveled outside their State. You cannot talk to them about anything except stupid rap music or their dad’s GROCERY STORE or about some sort of CHEAP GAS STATION BUSINESS that their dad owns.
I happened to attend a seminar last year in Boulder, Colorado where the topic under discussion was “ how people’s back ground (economically, educationaly, social yetc) effect their future generations”. The seminar was focused on black people and Latino people but it also provided some food for thought about desi people. From early 60s to 80s, 90 percent of Pakistanis, who migrated to USA or Europe, belonged to that class of Pakistan, which is considered to be low-economy class with very poor social background. And yes I am also including doctors or engineers in this class too. In those days, well-established families in Pakistan would never ever quit Pakistan. Only those people used to quit Pakistan who had no future in the country. These people were able to enter USA because in those days immigration to USA was so easy that it is hard to believe. These people came to States and spend their whole time in making money, some thing they had not seen before, and in the due process they could not spent much time on their kids and it all resulted in bringing up a class whom people refer as American Born Confused Desi. With a huge inflow of well-established and educated Pakistanis with strong background to USA in last 5 years, I hope our next generation in this country would be much more balanced as well as open-minded.
In contras to 20 or 25 years ago, nowadays, admittance to USA is extremely difficult and usually very well educated guys with solid family background make to USA. All of them have bachelor’s degree from good schools back home and after finishing their Masters from well reputed schools in USA, they get employed in their respective fields in USA and start their professional careers. But in my experience these well-educated paki guys who belong to very well respected families back home never ever marry to an ABCD girl. One of the major reasons desi guys want to marry a Pakistani girl is to maintain a connection with back home and the culture. These guys make an argument that why should they marry to a confused desi girl in USA and make their life miserable, when they can marry to a well educated Pakistani girl back home from LUMS, IBA, Kinnard, and Grammar schools who are equally capable to adjust in USA without any problems plus who will take their kids back home every year with genuine passion. Plus, I have also found out that families of these guys do not endorse their marriages to ABCD girls either. Usually those guys who end up marrying ABCDs who are trying to settle their scores with immigration departments to solve their immigration problems.
I was born and raised here but I consider myself more Pakistani than American. I am very much into my culture and I want to raise my kids with strong Pakistani and American values (yes, contrary to what most think, there are some American values). I want them to speak Urdu, to understand the history of their country and their parents so that they can appreciate all that they have. But most wouldn't see that because I don't wear salwar kameez to school, or waste my time watching Bollywood movies or speak urdu more often than English. In fact, people usually doubt I'm desi because I don't look anything like it.
But because of the sheer fact that I was raised here instead of Pakistan, I am at a severe handicap for finding a decent guy to spend my life with. In fact, the only guy who would want to risk marrying a "miserable slutty ABCD girl" is an unscrupulous and decietful immigraint, right?
I sure do hope that the newer generation can be raised with broader and more open minds because if not they are missing out on a score of decent American-Pakistani girls.
why hasnt this thread been merged with all the other abcd bashing threads?
phoenixdesi, thanks for sharing ur thoughts.. but i think they are quite closeminded... you've just presented the generalised opinion many desis have of desis growing up in so called western countries..
its the attitude of people like urself that will refrain "abcds" from ever getting close to their roots... when people like urself give us a bad name, what makes you think any of us even want to go back?
p.s its ok... i still love Pakistan and i still love its people..
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*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
why hasnt this thread been merged with all the other abcd bashing threads?
phoenixdesi, thanks for sharing ur thoughts.. but i think they are quite closeminded... you've just presented the generalised opinion many desis have of desis growing up in so called western countries..
its the attitude of people like urself that will refrain "abcds" from ever getting close to their roots... when people like urself give us a bad name, what makes you think any of us even want to go back?
p.s its ok... i still love Pakistan and i still love its people..
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I don't think he was offering his own personal beliefs. He was offering his theory as to why things are the way they are, which are two separate things. But you do have to admit that on a whole level, desis can be quite closeminded. Of course there are exceptions to everything, I believe I am one myself, but I do find that our people tend to be a lot more closeminded. However, like phoenix said, this closemindednes depends more on your upbringing, ur family, education, society, rather than the country in which you were born. I know people personally who were raised in India/Pakistan and are far more liberal than their American-raised counterparts.
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*Originally posted by sadzzz: *
^ and heres another generalisation.. how can u be openminded when you've jsut generalised an entire poppulation to be closeminded?
"our people" are several millions scattered all over the world.. and no i dont think they are "generally" close minded
its funny, i thought this was phoenix's opinion about abcd people.. didnt know his theory and beliefs could be different..
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Did you not read where I said, exceptions exist? Just by the posts seen here you see the closemindedness that exists amongst desis. And by closemindedness I mean that only your way of life is perfect, and everybody else is wrong and you say so. Being closeminded is synonymous with arrogance and ignorance. Honestly I've come across a LOT of desis who believe that their culture/religion is perfect and are very arrogant about it.
^ true.. but lets look at it as “glass half full scenario”
lets pretend, desis are actually quite openminded with a few exceptions.. hows that?
arrogant and ignronat people exist in every culture and society. They’re not limited to a certain race. Yes, we encounter quite a few in our lives.. but honestly speaking.. ive met far more openminded and unique laug in the desi community then anywhere else… yes, with a few exceptions..
i totally agree with sadzzz that she's right in saying, "Arrogant and ignorant people exist in every culture and society" but i would just add that it all depends on one's experiences in the end.
forget other ethnicities for a second. the fact that morons exist in every singleculture is a given, okay? lets just focus on desis here..
I too have met a lot of nice,genuine desi girls, and the fact that someone would reject them because they’re not raised in pakistan pisses me off immensely.
But I think that in general, desis lean slightly towards the narrower view of life rather than broad and open minded. Take yourself, just as an example. You like to travel a lot rite? And I"m assuming you went on your trip this summer by yourself, if I’m wrong, correct me please. Now I remember you saying in a thread before you left that you got a lot of strange reactions when you told people you were travelling on your own. Again, if i’m wrong, tell me so. There are a lot of peoplewho believe that it is wrong for a girl to travel on her own, for fun, without a male escort. So you tell me, is that an open minded view? No.
Again, if I was wrong about the above scenario, i apologize but I hope you got my point.
ok lets concentrate on desis :) since bashing desis is our most favorite topic.. especially larkiyan
i got mixed reactions i guess cus of my age and financial situation.. yes, a lot of the negative reaction i got was from people back home.. which was quite expected.. but then again, that was due to my age... not cus i was travelling alone.. or that i needed a male escort.. people i know arent THAT closeminded..
b/w what are we discussing here? that desis are generally closeminded? no, i just think they seem to care a lot more and want to know everything you're doing so they can tell the next person.. its called gossip and that too exists everywhere
now why would i bash larkiyan? if uve read any of my posts from the last five mnoths i’ve been here, any negative comment about abcd girls i get really angry at, so if u meant it that way then I kinda resent that.
as for my example, i’m happy that ur family isn’t as closeminded and holds archaic beliefs like mine. :k: But anyway the point I was trying to make was that the majority of families, mine included, would raise an eyebrow at that sort of situation. And I know that there are always exceptions to every rule
in regards to desi parents raising an eyebrow.. most of the time, they are only concerned.. and they have every right to be. If i was my parents and my kid was going overseas by herself.. id prob buy a ticket myself and accompany the bechari.. sometimes, its best to put ourselves in our parents shoes.. and think why they are being so “irrational” (sp?)
yeah ur right, and I would believe that too if it wasn’t for the fact that those parents have no qualms about letting their sons do the exact same thing. I mean i’ll prolly be just as overprotective and crazy as my mother, nothign wrong wtih it, but if I’m blessed with both boys and girls, I don’t want to treat my daughters any differnetly like the way I was.
^ u know i used to say the same thing to my dad when i was ur age.. but with time i realised it is quite different. Its got nothing to do with double standards or watever.... with daughters its just a very different thing. Dads, especially, go insane when their daughters are nto around... my dad had no problem at all with me going though.. hes been tellign me since i was earning that i should go and travel, lekin his heart virtually stops if he hears im in some sort of trouble...
i wouldnt ever complain about being a girl again :) well not a daughter neways
I guess for me the whole ABCD and FOB issue has always been an interesting experience, because I dont fit into either category. I was born in Canada, I grew up abroad all over the place, attended boarding school in England for high school, and now I am married living in Dallas but originally I am from Pak. I have travelled extensively with and without my family. My parents were very big on travel and life experiences... So I dont feel I belong to either group... My husband comes from the same background..though he was born in Pak, he grew up in the Far East and Southeast Asia..and then he was in the US...
I guess my life has taught me simply this. It doesnt matter whether you are an ABCD, a FOB, a misfit in others eyes.. I think if you are comfortable with who you are and the life you lead makes you happy, screw the world!!! At the end of the day...the raised eyebrows, the nudges and all that 'desi' stuff only exists because we give it importance. My parents maintained the stiffest disregard for that kinda stuff when they raised us girls, sending us off to boarding schools, encouraging us to travel, joining the Peace corps..whatever it was...
Sara516 you mentioned something about girls not being able to marry decnet guys because they generalize American girls as this or that..so you find it hard to find someone decent. I am completely paraphrasing here... but my question is why would you want to be with someone who couldnt appreciate you, that person isnt decent in my mind....I dont know you at all...but I know this much you deserve to be appreciated for who you are...
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*Originally posted by Sara516: *
So what should so-called "ABCD" girls like me do?
...]
But because of the sheer fact that I was raised here instead of Pakistan, I am at a severe handicap for finding a decent guy to spend my life with. In fact, the only guy who would want to risk marrying a "miserable slutty ABCD girl" is an unscrupulous and decietful immigraint, right?
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Sara, why are you at a severe handicap yaar?
Aren't there a lot of decent ABCD guys? I think there are for sure.
In my opinion one is always better off marrying someone who has had a similar upbringing and experiences in life and shares a similar family background, so in your case it would be perfect for you to get married to someone who has been raised in the US like yourself and has a similar outlook towards Islam/Pakistan as you. I'm sure there are many guys like that.
Aren't there a lot of decent ABCD guys? I think there are for sure.
In my opinion one is always better off marrying someone who has had a similar upbringing and experiences in life and shares a similar family background, so in your case it would be perfect for you to get married to someone who has been raised in the US like yourself and has a similar outlook towards Islam/Pakistan as you. I'm sure there are many guys like that.
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I'd like to think so, but guys raised here also feel teh same way about "ABCD girls." I want to marry someone here as well, who shares the same values, but my parents are not too keen on the idea. I dont' want to "date" so to speak, and they're not the typical desis in that they know 8 million people
I'd like to think so, but guys raised here also feel teh same way about "ABCD girls." I want to marry someone here as well, who shares the same values, but my parents are not too keen on the idea. I dont' want to "date" so to speak, and they're not the typical desis in that they know 8 million people
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Hmmm Sara I did see some ABCD guys who don't want to marry someone raised in Pakistan but prefer someone who has been raised in the US, and their parents are okay with that too. I'm sure there's quite a few like that.
Your parents want you to get married to someone from Pakistan? That's not a bad idea either.
At the end of the day what really matters is that the person is a good person yaar.
Khayr, I don't think you need to worry, good luck :-) You might have heard, "joRyaan aasmaanon pe banti haen" - couples are made in heaven.
irem.. i beg to differ slightly.. i think someone from a western country can marry someone back in pak.. i mean as long as ur principles and morals aer the same.. i dont see any problem :)
Sara, you get lots of different kinds of people... Inshallah you'll find the right bloke.. either from US or back home in pak..
my sister is a total aussie.. but i think shes going back to pak, Inshallah, if she has her way
But anyway the point I was trying to make was that the majority of families, mine included, would raise an eyebrow at that sort of situation. And I know that there are always exceptions to every rule