yeah i hope so 
thanks irem 
sara dont be so down on urself.. im assuming ur not even 20 yet. Trust me, enjoy life as it is.. think about marriage later on (well think about it but nto to this extent!)
and and and.. who cares if some guy doesnt think ur perfect for him… there is definately someone out there (or maybe 3-10) that do think ur perfect for them… just enjoy urself till then and stuff the ignorant fools :k:
and i always thought u were married..huh…
and what made you think that I was married? 
YO! This thread is getting severely off track.
Pheonix Bhai, there are some areas I agree with but the statement that the recent arrivals are better educated, etc is highly faulty. My parents came to the US in the midsixties where all of their fellow migrants were very very well educated and became well established. Both of my parents are docs and much of our community was full of professionals. They were the trailblazers and since then, due to family based migrations andf the greater interest to settle in US due to economic reasons, the floodgates have opened.
The truth remains that the Pakistani community has grown sizably yet our clout in the US mainstream is minimal. Up till the 70s one could say that the Paklistani-American coimmunity had kept up with their Indian counterparts, but no longer. Also Pakistani ABCDs come in two largely basic varieties: One that rejects Pakistan and upholds the Islamic identity and the Other who upholds Pakistan yet is immersed in Indian Culture. I guess I fall in the minority that puts Pakistan first and knows enough about it's history.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by RajputFury: *
YO! This thread is getting severely off track.
Pheonix Bhai, there are some areas I agree with but the statement that the recent arrivals are better educated, etc is highly faulty. My parents came to the US in the midsixties where all of their fellow migrants were very very well educated and became well established. Both of my parents are docs and much of our community was full of professionals. They were the trailblazers and since then, due to family based migrations andf the greater interest to settle in US due to economic reasons, the floodgates have opened.
The truth remains that the Pakistani community has grown sizably yet our clout in the US mainstream is minimal. Up till the 70s one could say that the Paklistani-American coimmunity had kept up with their Indian counterparts, but no longer. Also Pakistani ABCDs come in two largely basic varieties: One that rejects Pakistan and upholds the Islamic identity and the Other who upholds Pakistan yet is immersed in Indian Culture. I guess I fall in the minority that puts Pakistan first and knows enough about it's history.
[/QUOTE]
I must say your surprised me with your background. I did not know you were born and raised here in USA. I have seen your posts at World Affair (WA) forum and you seem to be aware of Pakistan history quite well, a trait quite uncommon to find in an ABCD. In a recent post, you elaborated your views about Kashmir and also referred to Junagadh and Hyderabad states to make your point. I found those references quite impressive and to the point. Not that I believe in caste system but your ID also suggests that you are well aware of your family ethnic background (I suppose your family belong to rajput caste. Again it is pretty unusual for an ABCD to know about it) but you are probably one of very few ABCDs who have such a keen interest in Pakistan. And honestly speaking, I do not expect ABCDs to show a keen interest in Pakistan. They are born and raised here and of course most of their activities and interests will be pro-American. In this thread, all I was trying to do was to share my experiences with ABCDs. I also wanted to express the views of majority of Pakistani guys, who were not born and raised here but are well educated and well settled in USA, about ABCD girls especially when it comes to marital issues.
And I agree with you that there is one class of ABCD that rejects Pakistan and upholds the Islamic identity and the other who upholds Pakistan yet is immersed in Indian Culture. But then FOBs also have different classes too and the class I was talking about is the one which belong to well established and educated families back home and they have a better life style over there than here. This class careless who ABCDs are or what ABCDs do etc. However in the end I would like to point out what Gummybear said that It doesn’t matter whether you are an ABCD, a FOB, or a misfit in others eyes.. I think if you are comfortable with who you are and the life you lead makes you happy, then you are the top of this world.
dude what kind dope are you on, that’s one of the most oxymoronic and narrow-minded assumptions i have ever came across, not to say that it’s highly generalized and stereotypical. I met a Pakistani diesel mechanic in Florida who came here in the sixties, and could barely speak english, but his chlidren are very well educated and breaded. So, how would you like to brand them 
I happened to attend a seminar last year in Boulder, Colorado where the topic under discussion was “ how people’s back ground (economically, educationaly, social yetc) effect their future generations”. The seminar was focused on black people and Latino people but it also provided some food for thought about desi people. From early 60s to 80s, 90 percent of Pakistanis, who migrated to USA or Europe, belonged to that class of Pakistan, which is considered to be low-economy class with very poor social background. And yes I am also including doctors or engineers in this class too. In those days, well-established families in Pakistan would never ever quit Pakistan. Only those people used to quit Pakistan who had no future in the country. These people were able to enter USA because in those days immigration to USA was so easy that it is hard to believe. These people came to States and spend their whole time in making money, some thing they had not seen before, and in the due process they could not spent much time on their kids and it all resulted in bringing up a class whom people refer as American Born Confused Desi. With a huge inflow of well-established and educated Pakistanis with strong background to USA in last 5 years, I hope our next generation in this country would be much more balanced as well as open-minded. <<
I also knew lots of families in Tampa area who migrated to the US in the seventies; all very well educated, with great kids. It really does not matter where they came from, but they have done exceptionally well for themselves in their adopted homeland. After all, these countries are a melting pot of many cultures, and who were we to judge people based only on their socio-economic background, and how they entered into the United States. Going by your conjectural argument that most of the people who make it to the States have ‘Strong background to the US’, you know one thing, watching cable 24/7, getting rich overnight by embezzling country’s wealth does not make you americanized in any way.
In contras to 20 or 25 years ago, nowadays, admittance to USA is extremely difficult and usually very well educated guys with solid family background make to USA. All of them have bachelor’s degree from good schools back home and after finishing their Masters from well reputed schools in USA, they get employed in their respective fields in USA and start their professional careers. But in my experience these well-educated paki guys who belong to very well respected families back home never ever marry to an ABCD girl. One of the major reasons desi guys want to marry a Pakistani girl is to maintain a connection with back home and the culture. These guys make an argument that why should they marry to a confused desi girl in USA and make their life miserable, when they can marry to a well educated Pakistani girl back home from LUMS, IBA, Kinnard, and Grammar schools who are equally capable to adjust in USA without any problems plus who will take their kids back home every year with genuine passion. Plus, I have also found out that families of these guys do not endorse their marriages to ABCD girls either. Usually those guys who end up marrying ABCDs who are trying to settle their scores with immigration departments to solve their immigration problems.<<
Why do you keep referring to ‘solid family backgrounds’. Are you saying that the American embassy now ‘usually’ grants visas only through family connections or has some way of knowing to grant visas only to those with ‘solid families’ behind them or people who have completely immersed themselves into some sort of pseudo culture that they have turned them into americans outside america 
so now they will have solid American background. I mean screw person’s abilities, or will to survive or making it in a new homeland, or the hard work they may have put in setting up that CHEAP GAS STATION, the only way you can ever have seasoned American off-springs is through a merit that they ought to belong to some ‘solid fuking background’ back home..i am sapped of saneness..
[QUOTE]
I have met so many desis in last 10 years in Chicago and NY who were born and raised in USA and it was difficult to spent 5 minutes with them. They were so disgusting as well as close-minded. Most of them never traveled outside their State. You cannot talk to them about anything except stupid rap music or their dad's GROCERY STORE or about some sort of CHEAP GAS STATION BUSINESS that their dad owns.
[/QUOTE]
Ur post is too long to read, just want to say sab aap ki tarhaaN kitaabi keeRey to ho naheN saktey, why should we be interested in things that don't affect us? we find FOBs just as boring and irrelvant, unlike some people ABCD's have a life you know.
Baat parrha likha honey ki naheiN hai, tum loag jitna bhi par likh lo raho ge FOB hi.. na koi style, na baat karney ka saleeka, studying doesn't do jack all..
bat bat ding pleese cam agen.
^ thats uncalled for
Not pointing fingers at phonexidesi or anyone else who has posted in this forum (except maybe irem :p , J/K :D ). The following comments are a venting source for me only, please dont get offended.
I am really sick of people putting desis in two EXTERMELY broad cateogaries , FOBS and ABCDs and then generalising and stereotyipng people based on how many years they spent in the US. From my own personal experience,I am in the same boat as Gummy Bear: I am a Pakistani citizen (and now an American) but I was born and raised in the middle east and now living here. I am a FOB by your standards but does that mean my parents did not instill family values in me?My parents are not the most educated people in the world, but they are GOOD people. And they raised us, their kids as good people. How can you go wrong with that?
Yes, I am not allowed to date, or go out with friends as casually as other people might do, but still my parents have given me so many oppurtunities to make myself a better person then they already help me make. They are not engineers, or doctors or some other HIGHLY ESTEEMED profession. At the end of the day, they are just good people. And yes, contrary to what a lot of us might belive, GOOD people raise better generations.
Although I think i have already stated my point quite a few times , i still feel the need to elaborate the fact this post comes not becuz of my own family and experiences. I have known quite a few engineers and doctors who are , oh, so well educated from your (generally speaking) point of view but who are ALOT more close minded than my own parents are. So, how do you (someone, not you PDesi :D ) explain that?
haan haan mein hi bachi hoon na aik bichari masoom sniff
phailoo 
kidhar ghayab hoti ho peshawar kee eid ka chaand
waise i agree with you Ira yaar. no one in my family is a highly professional person either, lekin i dont think you have to be an engineer or a doctor or rich to be a good person and raise a good family or earn respect in society. the most important thing in my eyes is that a person be a good person.
khair who cares what anyone says man, u know and i know that FOBs r the best 
LOL! im a proud fob but this was too funny Naadir your post was prolly the best in the thread gosh u have me laughing
^
:)
Khawateen FOB hi achi lagti heiN it's the men who look gay, nothing is more attractive than pendu girl with paranda, koka n all but guys, bleughh, the paindu so called jaahil ones are okay it's these matric pass types, angrez banney ki koshish mein koi kammi nahein rehnay detey but they will never mange, sidi taraan bandey da puttar banr ke raow, gora barran di ki jarurat aa..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Naadir: *
^
:)
Khawateen FOB hi achi lagti heiN it's the men who look gay, nothing is more attractive than pendu girl with paranda, koka n all but guys, bleughh, the paindu so called jaahil ones are okay it's these matric pass types, angrez banney ki koshish mein koi kammi nahein rehnay detey but they will never mange, sidi taraan bandey da puttar banr ke raow, gora barran di ki jarurat aa..
[/QUOTE]
jahil type guys are okay???
First, in my opinion, mentality has nothing to do with a country. Every country has its own share of open minded and close-minded people. I guess the mentality of a person has a lot to do with the education and family background. A lot depends upon your family values, background and education. If a desi is born and raised in USA in an uneducated family with no moral values instilled in him, don’t expect him to be a cultured or open-minded person and vice versa.
For kids here, education is free upto 12th grade.
In most high schools, the student body is made up of diverse blends.
These kids from their interactions with people who are like them
and also with people who are different from them learn quite a lot.
I'm sure they know a lot more about how the world works
and let's say about
tolerance of difference compared to kids in your country who are
sheltered by parents and are hardly taught anything out of the
ordinary. Let's not forget the American and Indian channels
that are on all the time. Due
to their residing in a Muslim country, where they hear Azaan five
times a day and are surrounded by people of their own kind, they are
automatically expected to know everything. Where as parents in
US, in addition to their jobs/businesses, house work
as well as other outside responsibilities
take the time to teach their kids a little about morals and values
among other things.
Honestly speaking, I have met so many desis in last 10 years in Chicago and NY who were born and raised in USA and it was difficult to spent 5 minutes with them. They were so disgusting as well as close-minded.
I'm sure they shared your sentiments.
Most of them never traveled outside their State.
Yeah, here in America we don't just leave
our family and take off with friends to travel all over the
country or just buzz off to where ever we please. Some of us
actually put family above everything and everyone else. Some
people here prefer to have family life over being a hobo or
spending time with friends 24/.
You cannot talk to them about anything except stupid rap music or their dad's GROCERY STORE or about some sort of CHEAP GAS STATION BUSINESS that their dad owns.
What would you rather talk about, models in
playboy? Or do you prefer the Victoria Secret fetish like most
'fobs?' Or are you from that 'I'm-going-to-play-intellectual-now
-that-i'm-in-US-and-the-only-thing-i-want-to-talk-about-is-CNN
-or-Fox-news-to-depict-my-americanism-and-stupidly-attempt-
pronouncing-big-words-eventhough-i'm-totally-unaware-of-their-meaning-and-spelling' type? A lot of parents
here do own their own businesses among them 'CHEAP GAS STATIONS'
that you mentioned. Whether their parents own a boutique or
a gas station they work their butts off seven days a week. This
isn't your country where majority of the population works
five days 12-4 schedule (not to forget the tea and visiting
breaks) and takes the rest of the week off to sit on their butts or
poke nose in other people's business, or spends nights staying
up doing nothing.
Perhaps if they worked harder down in your country and attempted
copying either the Americans or the Indian less harder
they would actually have some respect
on the world scene. But hey it's your choice.
I happened to attend a seminar last year in Boulder, Colorado where the topic under discussion was “ how people’s back ground (economically, educationaly, social yetc) effect their future generations”. The seminar was focused on black people and Latino people but it also provided some food for thought about desi people.
It's no surprise you were at a latino and black
seminar. Most abcds if present at such an event would get
something positive out of it. Obviously fobs can't get anything
but negative stuff out of both negative and positive stuff which
they can use to put their own people down to feel better about
themselves.
Most fobs do find it easier to relate to latinos and blacks then
to their own people or fellow Muslims. But hey if you come
from Pakistan, you are inflicted severely with the 'when in Rome' syndrome.
You just can't help it, it's who you are.
From early 60s to 80s, 90 percent of Pakistanis, who migrated to USA or Europe, belonged to that class of Pakistan, which is considered to be low-economy class with very poor social background. And yes I am also including doctors or engineers in this class too. In those days, well-established families in Pakistan would never ever quit Pakistan. Only those people used to quit Pakistan who had no future in the country. These people were able to enter USA because in those days immigration to USA was so easy that it is hard to believe. These people came to States and spend their whole time in making money, some thing they had not seen before, and in the due process they could not spent much time on their kids and it all resulted in bringing up a class whom people refer as American Born Confused Desi.
There's a saying in your lingo, 'angoor khattay
haiN.' You of all people are in no position to determine whose
parents were where on the social ladder before immigrating to
US. If acquiring immigration was that easy then why didn't
your family move? And if they didn't move because they were
so well established, then why did you come here now? All of a sudden
your background and that of all these fobs flocking here is not secure
anymore back home in your country?
With a huge inflow of well-established and educated Pakistanis with strong background to USA in last 5 years, I hope our next generation in this country would be much more balanced as well as open-minded.
Dream on. We here in American use a term
wishful thinking. With the better than thou mentality that fobs
have, their kids can not even come close to the kids of those
who are raised here and fight on a day to day basis in order
to hold on dearly to their true essence, religion and values.
You fobs concentrate too much on status and making money
to care about what your kids do or who they are intermingling
with. Plus all fobs tend to stick together so that must surely
help the cause as well.
In contras to 20 or 25 years ago, nowadays, admittance to USA is extremely difficult and usually very well educated guys with solid family background make to USA. All of them have bachelor’s degree from good schools back home and after finishing their Masters from well reputed schools in USA, they get employed in their respective fields in USA and start their professional careers.
**Again what's the purpose of your visit? Why
don't you stay in your well established background, economic,
social and political status back home? Did I invite you here,
did any of these other people invite you here? Or did Bush, Clinton,
or Reagan sent you a personal invitation? With your MBA, status
and family background so far up your ass why do you stink up
the place and society here by migrating over here?
What I want to know is who gives these losers and haters immigration?
The INS should seriously set a quota of not more than a few hundred
visas for people coming with this jacked up mentality. In addition
to doing a background check on them in their country. Stupidity
and ignorance should be reason enough for rejection.**
But in my experience these well-educated paki guys who belong to very well respected families back home never ever marry to an ABCD girl. One of the major reasons desi guys want to marry a Pakistani girl is to maintain a connection with back home and the culture. These guys make an argument that why should they marry to a confused desi girl in USA and make their life miserable, when they can marry to a well educated Pakistani girl back home from LUMS, IBA, Kinnard, and Grammar schools who are equally capable to adjust in USA without any problems plus who will take their kids back home every year with genuine passion. Plus, I have also found out that families of these guys do not endorse their marriages to ABCD girls either. Usually those guys who end up marrying ABCDs who are trying to settle their scores with immigration departments to solve their immigration problems.
** The truth is that girls who are marriage material
in terms of their upbringing, values, family, maturity, ethics, morals
don't last on the market that long. Nor do they want to marry a
guy who has been in the country only for a few years and is so
new to everything that he forgets
to blink at every toss and turn in life. Another reason is that
after these guys have come from such a suppressed society where
even the mention of the word 'sex' is a taboo but everything goes
on underground, they go crazy with all the freedom, they have no idea
how to use. After screwing a dozen girls, no abcd girl if she knew
would marry a freaking loser like that. Obviously these guys have no
option but to go back into a culture that would marry their daughters to them just at the fact that he's a return from America. Save us abcds, or
ubcds or whatever the crap of how you're better than us. You come
here, you educate in our schools, you work our jobs and you have the
balls to b*tch about how you are better than us? Some guts you have.**
**
I must say your surprised me with your background. I did not know you were born and raised here in USA. I have seen your posts at World Affair (WA) forum and you seem to be aware of Pakistan history quite well, a trait quite uncommon to find in an ABCD. In a recent post, you elaborated your views about Kashmir and also referred to Junagadh and Hyderabad states to make your point. I found those references quite impressive and to the point. Not that I believe in caste system but your ID also suggests that you are well aware of your family ethnic background (I suppose your family belong to rajput caste. Again it is pretty unusual for an ABCD to know about it) but you are probably one of very few ABCDs who have such a keen interest in Pakistan.**
Pheonixbhai, I appreciate the kind words. For me, the interest in Pakistan came out of the fact that I see my heritage to be so rich, something that has given me pride. To be an american is not a big deal for me...this country has given me and my family so much but at the end of the day G. Washington comes nowhere close to the Quaid.
I love my Pakistani people, my ancestors who have allowed me to have pride and a sense of belonging. By loosing Pakistaniyat you gain nothing. One day I hope to take my son to Pakistan and spend a year or two there to have him understand what being a Pakistani truly means.
**
And honestly speaking, I do not expect ABCDs to show a keen interest in Pakistan. They are born and raised here and of course most of their activities and interests will be pro-American. In this thread, all I was trying to do was to share my experiences with ABCDs. I also wanted to express the views of majority of Pakistani guys, who were not born and raised here but are well educated and well settled in USA, about ABCD girls especially when it comes to marital issues.
**
You may be right. I personally dont care much about that. It is their life and if they choose to forgo their Pakistani heritage, then I can assure you, they will be the losers for it.
**
And I agree with you that there is one class of ABCD that rejects Pakistan and upholds the Islamic identity and the other who upholds Pakistan yet is immersed in Indian Culture. But then FOBs also have different classes too and the class I was talking about is the one which belong to well established and educated families back home and they have a better life style over there than here. This class careless who ABCDs are or what ABCDs do etc. However in the end I would like to point out what Gummybear said that It doesn’t matter whether you are an ABCD, a FOB, or a misfit in others eyes.. I think if you are comfortable with who you are and the life you lead makes you happy, then you are the top of this world. **
Well said. I agree.
Re: ABCDs - Some Thoughts
Out of curiousity, what has happened to make you state all this now?
Certainly.
Sure, but just because you don’t expect it, doesn’t mean it’s not a possibility.
That’s odd. I’ve grown up in the US – spent 24 years hear, and almost all of the American desis I’ve met are open-minded and reflect a complex understanding of their relationship to different societies. Perhaps you’re hanging around with the wrong people?
Perhaps they can’t afford to? Perhaps they have different priorities or lifestyles than yours.
What’s wrong with that? They want to talk about the music they like? Just because it doesn’t suit your taste, doesn’t mean it’s “stupid.” And so what if their families own businesses? Does that make them worthless people? A lot of people have to start from scratch when they come here. They don’t have families willing to pay for foreign degrees. Or they don’t have the time for it. How does running your own business make you “cheap”? What right do you have to judge them? Seems to me that just because someone doesn’t fit into your judgement of classy you are dismissing them. That’s awfully closeminded of you.
This stat is actually more accurate for Britain and Europe. Desi immigration to America has the opposite trend.
Poor delusional child. Plenty of family and friends I know from “well-established” families came to the US for higher education – many chose to stay due to career opportunities.
Wow. Such in-depth and thorough sociological analysis. You should write a book. 
It’s also absolutely incorrect. What initiated the creation of the term ABCD was 1) the use of the term “FOB”; and 2) the use of the term ABC amongst Chinese Americans.
Perhaps we should be more careful about allowing more open-minded immigrants.
Perhaps this is so. But unfortunately I’ve never met an ABCD girl who has agreed to marry a “FOB” either. I don’t think that we should dismiss anyone just because of where they were born, but I also feel it is more likely to marry someone from a similar background. Either way there are no guarrantees.
That’s horrible. What kind of person would marry only for immigration issues? That is really unfair to the person he is marrying. I’m sure not all “FOB” guys are like this, thankfully.
Array bhai urdu nahe aati to koshish ki zehmat mat ki giye. Aa jatay hain namounay…na idhar ke aur na udhar ke…kabab main haddi kaheen ke..
FOB’s for life: the only true Pakistanis. 
Im still trying to understand what all these theories are about (ABCDs / Pakistani FOBs). Im trying to understand where this difference has originated from. After all that I have read on these boards, I feel, these terms have been produced, used and encouraged by people with strong feelings of insecurities inside their heads. They are trying to create a difference and feel better (or worthwhile about their existance) by calling the other bad.
GummyBear has posted something good. Something along the lines I've lead my life like. We never created a difference between foreign born Pakistanis or those brought up outside. As far as I remember we were tought to respect people for who they are. My parents never created difference among the people based on their nationalities / religion. I think people should be respected or otherwise for who they are. I've had extremely bitter experience with indians and I tend to generalise all of them. Im still trying to convince myself that they are not "all" bad but this is what life all about. You learn from life.
So anyway, the point is that.......... whoever has created these specific names to create the difference and whoever loves to use these to impose their superiority and look down upon the others, need to over come their insecurities.
Bhai my last sentence was not meant to be Urdu it was Punjabi, I only speak Urdu when I’m feeling like a Mughal Khusrah.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sara516: *
jahil type guys are okay???
[/QUOTE]
Yaar pendus innit, anpaR type, they know how to have fun the rest (shehr de mundey/suit boot type) just make ass out of themselves...