Re: Abbottabad Raid
Arshad5 - you should start a petition for clearing up the poor doctor's name? youy mean that guy was unfairly prosecuted and he was not helping the USA catch a terrorist?
Also, I wonder if you read reports of the people who came in the helicopter were camaflaouged as men in black weraing stylish dark glasses with memory wands?
Re: Abbottabad Raid
Arshad5 - you should start a petition for clearing up the poor doctor's name? youy mean that guy was unfairly prosecuted and he was not helping the USA catch a terrorist?
Also, I wonder if you read reports of the people who came in the helicopter were camaflaouged as men in black weraing stylish dark glasses with memory wands?
Well the doctor did think that he was working for CIA and helping them on a mission, I am sure that the nice ladies from Langley who he met in F-7 in Islamabad, convinced him that he was an important asset. However it is possible that the DNA was not carried out and he was made a fall guy by the CIA. Deception is just as important part of the work of an intelligence agency as is espionage. The real assets will not be compromised, but the minor ones can be compromised for the greater good, in the larger scheme of things.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
but you claimed and agreed with Gen.M.A.B that obl was not killed in the raid...while at the same time concluding the good doctor was guilty for conspiring to make that raid happen.....do you see how you have confused yourself?
In effect you are accusing the government of Pakistan for not only conspiring against itself but also conspiring to conspire against its own conspiries!
That's why I asked you if you are mixing up (Gen)MAB and MIB
Re: Abbottabad Raid
but you claimed and agreed with Gen.M.A.B that obl was not killed in the raid...while at the same time concluding the good doctor was guilty for conspiring to make that raid happen.....do you see how you have confused yourself?
In effect you are accusing the government of Pakistan for not only conspiring against itself but also conspiring to conspire against its own conspiries!
That's why I asked you if you are mixing up (Gen)MAB and MIB
I think that you are confused with due respect. I also find it difficult to understand you at times as you seem to be a slow learner no disrespect intended.
The facts are that
a) a raid was conducted by special forces of US
b) CIA had agents on the ground in that area at the time of the raid and beforehand.
c) Dr Afridi was working for CIA.
d) Pakistani forces were under an obligation to view the illegal operation as an act of war.
Now whether OBL was killed or not is irrelevant as Dr afridi was working for a foreign agency and assisting it on in an operation which was illegal and where that foreign agency had no jurisdiction.
For your information I did not agree or disagree with General Beg.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
No man, you are doubting the official account, so the onus is on you to show contrary evidence rather than ramblings of a crackpot.
With all due respect, the official account is almost necessarily always false if made public, simply for the propaganda value of it.
I think more telling is that there are other narratives not controlled by the official censors, (e.g. No Easy Day), and they all agree that OBL was there and is dead. Now, what IS open to debate if this was an outright assassination mission, or if circumstance dictated that OBL and his male cohorts be shot.
But I strongly disagree that officialdom has anything to do with veracity....
Re: Abbottabad Raid
Even in No Easy Day the author states that the body had black beard which he thought might have been dyed and the body didn't look as old as he had expected it would.
The author states that OBL didn't quite look like we had imagined. Admiral McRaven had the same thoughts.
They had planned to show the DNA and photos to Pakistan and the rest of the world. Although they had taken the DNA and photos but somehow they were never disclosed to Pakistan or the world.
They took computers, flashdrives and papers from the Abbottabad house and we have heard nothing of what they discovered.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
With all due respect, the official account is almost necessarily always false if made public, simply for the propaganda value of it.
I think more telling is that there are other narratives not controlled by the official censors, (e.g. No Easy Day), and they all agree that OBL was there and is dead. Now, what IS open to debate if this was an outright assassination mission, or if circumstance dictated that OBL and his male cohorts be shot.
But I strongly disagree that officialdom has anything to do with veracity....
The point is, if someone is going to provide an different theory, they have to provide proof too.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
The point is, if someone is going to provide an different theory, they have to provide proof too.
Well, that would simply be dismissed as fabricated. People will think whatever they want to in the end, and that will be driven by ideology not rational thinking.
Recall WMD in Iraq (the stated basis for the war)...the official story was a lie, and an outright conspiracy. The 'nuts' had it right on that one...how could anyone debunk that given the resources those who provided "proof" had?
THAT is grounds enough to dismiss anything coming from the US state department or military establishment as nonsense until proven otherwise.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
A theory is generally something that is speculated or unproven otherwise it would not be a theory. Don't all theories need to be verified even if they are put forward by the government.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
it's getting funner and funnier! hm, so the CIA conducted a raid with the help of the doc, but for what?
Why wouldn't people like you just admit the plain fact! you want to believe your military is somehow the single 'institution' that upholds Pakistan's honour (never mind the fact they have behaved worse than the jihadi outfits they have created!) and cannot digest the fact that the US could secretively come in and have their way in abbotabad....
acceptance of failure is the first step in redemption!
Re: Abbottabad Raid
it's getting funner and funnier! hm, so the CIA conducted a raid with the help of the doc, but for what?
Why wouldn't people like you just admit the plain fact! you want to believe your military is somehow the single 'institution' that upholds Pakistan's honour (never mind the fact they have behaved worse than the jihadi outfits they have created!) and cannot digest the fact that the US could secretively come in and have their way in abbotabad....
acceptance of failure is the first step in redemption!
For what? is the million dollar question. Supposedly to kill OBL....whoever he was, and to inform us that it has been done and the WOT can be winded down, and US can leave Afghanistan.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
^ if that is the case why do you object to it? haven't the likes of you been clamoring for US to get out of there anyway so the great strategic depth game can resume?
if the US leaves you don't like it; if they don't leave you want them to leave! why can't you just stand on your own legs and not depend on US for everything?
Re: Abbottabad Raid
^ if that is the case why do you object to it? haven't the likes of you been clamoring for US to get out of there anyway so the great strategic depth game can resume?
if the US leaves you don't like it; if they don't leave you want them to leave! why can't you just stand on your own legs and not depend on US for everything?
Some people are fighting the US because it will not leave fast enough and others are fighting the US so that it will not leave and they can continue to fight against it, it seems that the US has got itself into a situation that it cannot win. Its a zero sum situation. The sooner the US realises that the better.
Personally I would like the US to stay well clear of Pakistan and even to impose sanctions against Pakistan. That is the only way that Pakistan will develop. US only helps the corrupt elite at the expense of the Pakistani nation, the poor people never receive even a penny from the US and are only burdened more.
I stand by my alien theory.
I don't have to prove it, you have to prove your theory otherwise my theory wins by default. ;-)
Loved the fictional writings in the past and now as well.
Re: Abbottabad Raid
Some people are fighting the US because it will not leave fast enough and others are fighting the US so that it will not leave and they can continue to fight against it, it seems that the US has got itself into a situation that it cannot win. Its a zero sum situation. The sooner the US realises that the better.
Personally I would like the US to stay well clear of Pakistan and even to impose sanctions against Pakistan. That is the only way that Pakistan will develop. US only helps the corrupt elite at the expense of the Pakistani nation, the poor people never receive even a penny from the US and are only burdened more.
That is the first sensible thing you've said! right on buddy
Re: Abbottabad Raid
Amusement park where OBL breathed his last](http://www.pakistantoday.com.pk/2013/02/05/news/national/amusement-park-where-obl-breathed-his-last/)
