A weird thread...but lets do it

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Now this will be a weird thread..I admit it

but i want to experiment something different within a desi setup. we desis are known for following our parties with a ferocious loyalty and always support our party leaders no matter what but

how about in this thread, you do a bit of introspection, take a step back, take a deep breath and then:

a) layout some of the issues/mistakes/missteps of your most beloved Pakistani political leader (dead or alive)
b) then list only one positive thing of a leader that you hate the most.

I hope this will start a discussion in which we will start to realize that every leader is vulnerable, plus it will force us to think out of our bubbled zone and hopefully will bring us a bit more closer as a community.

and yes, there is every bit of a chance that this thread will remain empty…and that will be one hell of a revelation in itself!!!

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

so :slight_smile:
Anwer Pasha , pls oint out few strategic/political mistakes of Z. Bhutto and 1 positive thing abt Imran

Sachaydino,** pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Z. Bhutto and 1 positive thing abt nawaz**

TheRealDeal , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Z. Bhutto and 1 positive thing abt Imran

desert bird , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Nawaz and 1 positive thing abt Imran

hanibal , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Nawaz and 1 positive thing abt Imran

ajazali** , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of JI and 1 positive thing abt Altaf Hussain**

Jolie,** pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Imran and 1 positive thing abt Altaf Hussain and Nawaz each**

Silaaj , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Imran and 1 positive thing abt Altaf Hussain and Nawaz each

waleedhbk ,** pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Imran and 1 positive thing abt Nawaz**

muqawwee123 , **pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of altaf/MQM and 1 positive thing abt JI

**Moonstar201 **pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of altaf/MQM and 1 positive thing abt Nawaz and Imran each

**of course everyone else is also welcome to post in this thread addressing the topic at hand!

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

Bhutto was much fast & he trusted Muslim rulers but he should be aware of depth of CIA approach . Atomic bomb , Mezile program , Islamic block , BCCI , China Links , much more , doing all he ignored our mulla , slave of money & our establishment , Slave of US .
About Imran
He is now improved , Now lie with confidence

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

His mistakes according to descending order

  1. He should have never become part of Punjabi establishment and should have kicked the butt of drinkard general to handover power to Shaikh Mujib
  2. 90000 cowards lead by then General Niazi should have remained in Indian jails till a war crime tribunals have been formed to investigate the rapes, killings, looting of own banks, infrastructures by these 90000 war criminals.
  3. Disbanded the defeated army then and should have created a brand new limited army represented by four provinces.
  4. He should not have arrested Khan Abdul Wali Khan and should not have disbanded the governments of Mufti Mahmood in NWFP and coalition government of Mengal/Bugti in Baluchistan to favor the Punjabi establishment.
  5. Finally never ever declared Qadianis as non-muslims on the pressure of Jamat-e- Haami. He should have resigned rather than coming under pressure of these b@st@rds.

He was honest PM, brilliant politician and what he worked to improve the life of common Pakistanis none in the history of Pakistan ever did it and never ever politician of that caliber Pakistan will see in future. Removing him illegally and then killing him was the biggest tragedy in the history of Pakistan.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

Few stratigical mistakes by NS,
1) He lacks the team who could actually run the country.
2) He try to survive for another day, which in itself is disastrous for the country.
3) Focused on short-term goals.
4) Consequently, his politics revolve around "how-to-win-election", and got no idea what to do once he wins...actually all political leadership suffer from this.

Positive Imran:
He is Catalyst, which helps in creating projects (not policies) in favor of common man. Got lot of roam for improvement but unfortunately thinks he is complete so no chance of improvement.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

thx but on positives, what you have listed is not really related to imran...any specific good thing about him as a leader or something good he did it for the country as a politician. there is no pressure, if you think there is none, so be it.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

this is brilliant...never thought that you would articulate these points abt bhutto. your 2nd point is revealing as you think that one of bhutto's biggest achievement was actually a misstep

also, what abt listing a positive about nawaz? or you think there is none

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

lols. This was done just 2 months back

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/pakistan-affairs/662706-politicians-hate-dislike.html

As far as positive about JI:

**Positives:

(i) No corruption allegations ( as far as I know. Might be beneficiary for foreign funding during Afghan Jihad… But still I need confirmation from the posters who know their role during that time).

(ii) Philanthropic efforts (Hospitals under Al-Khidmat and efforts for education rural areas of Pakistan). So does MQM through KKF and PTI’ leader did wonderful job through Shaukat Khanum

(iii) Open for all ethnicities. But same can be claimed by MQM, as they gave opportunity to Pahtuns and Sindhis (Nabeel Gabol, Heer Soho and Shirazi Group to name few). They don’t campaign on ethnic lines like playing Muhajir card by MQM and Sindh card by PPP.

**

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

damn i missed it rather i forgot abt it :stuck_out_tongue: but a, t this pointi would rather continue with the thread.

by the way, loved your smart post on JI :slight_smile: you said 3 good things abt JI but on the ist one, you are not so sure abt it and on the 2nd and 3rd, you did not forget to mention that JI’s biggest opponent MQM is doing the same … matlab CHIT BHI MERI, PAT BHI MERI,

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

I think being a Catalyst is greatest postive for people of Pakistan, it was IK' 2010 rally which woke up the ruling elite anf sharifs, hence we got Metro, hospitals and roads and infrastructure of kpk being upgraded...this is not because Sharif Govt had any policy intact it is purely because of IK...

I once had a Ghee Mill, and as you may know, in making of Ghee, catalyst is the most important thing, you dont have catalysts, you don't get end product...

Tell you more, in response of Billiom Tree Tsunami and pressure from civil society, Shahbaz Sharif Initiated a forest project on the banks of Ravi River, the forest shall have around 10 million trees and so far 9.2 million have been planted, similar forests are in progress in central and southern Punjab...

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

Did someone say PMLN is concerned about trees? This is from last week:

**1,700 more trees to face the axe in Lahore

​PHA to cut 1,300 trees along Canal Road despite ban**](http://dailytimes.com.pk/punjab/08-Apr-16/pha-to-cut-1300-trees-along-canal-road-despite-ban)

…and this leads me to say the ‘positive’ that no one does media projection, heavy investments into ads and publicity than Sharif brothers. If you follow their glossy and ever so exaggerated ad campaigns, you’d think Pakistan has overtaken China or something.

Secondly, I do not have a single positive word to say about someone who is responsible for mass murdering of thousands of people. I am not that heartless. So please stop asking me to say say good things about Altaf Hussain.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

posters here criticize JI all the time but you wont see me replying every poster or arguing relentlessly. Reason is I know JI lack political strategies which make a party successful one. But the party does evaluate itself continously like Munawwar hassan was replaced democratically and they withdrew supporting musharf and apologized to nation. I dont think we can expect this from plmq or mqm.

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

MH was the true representative of Jamat - without any ifs or buts!

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

I have always been staunch supporter of democracy in Pakistan even when East Pakistan was also a part of Pakistan. Though I am still supporter of ZAB's PPP but I am not a blind follower. Any shortcomings even in ZAB, I will not hesitate to hide or ignore. The short comings mentioned above in my list specially from 1 to 3 caused him his life and Pakistan lost this brilliant politician for ever.

Nawaz's positivism is limited to Punjab only hence I don't consider this as any positivism. In fact it is an absolute negativity and bad luck for whole Pakistan where his writing off of three minor provinces makes him PM of Punjabistan not Pakistan. Perhaps his brain is tune to Punjabis only and considering others as peanuts.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

Good thing of NS is that he wants to improve relations with India and he is far far better than the previous government of Zardari.

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Re: A weird thread...but lets do it

Zardari also wanted good relations with India and Iran, but restricted by holy cows. Presently the relation with India is even worse than previous government because of same reason. N$ has no heart to use his constitutional powers over foreign affairs which is controlled by other Sharif dhaday ke zor par :)

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

**The Lion Of Pakistan

**

1. Too much focus on infrastructure development but less focus on social sector uplift.

2. Its too early to implement Turkish Model in Pakistsan where Tayyab Erdogan have turned the tables of powerful Generals without achieving substantial economic growth and financial independence. Going against the Powerful Corridors of Establishment right from 1990 onward, Nawaz Sharif always remained diagonally parked in this parallel universe …

**Imran Khan
**
He is a great philanthropist, charismatic celebrity of the world & wonderful player but basically not a politician at all ! His emotional/aggressive strategy & nature can do wonders in the cricket stadium while leading 11 players but not in the politics where you 've to lead 200 Million !

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

Hazam nae hui na :smiley:

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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

I dont care of Altaf but I do care for MQM as a large representative of URban sindh. MAjor mistake of MQM as a party is

MQM faults

  1. Unable to utilize the mass support give by Urban sindh for real positive work which they started during 88-92.. They should have focused on the real issues of urban sindh.
  2. Being part of all govts but failing to abolish unjust quota system in sindh.
  3. Didnt broght the pakistanis from BD.
  4. Didnt kept their relation very well with establishment AKA army during 90’s rather become in a challanging mode. Which is not going to be accepted by establishment
  5. To take Altaf to the highest level that he( london co. ) is not questionable to what ever he is doing .
  6. Didnt keep the militant section of their party seperate from political face while other parties are very successful in doing so.

Good points about NS and Imran

  1. NS is lesser eval than PPP -Z . Many projects started whether good or bad but atleast development is being done..
  2. Imran has real charisma to pull crowd. Provide lively opposition ( except Dharna not good at all) to PML-N to force them to be alert all the times. His constant shouting on poll rigging make people of pakistan to understand that MQM is getting real votes from Khi.
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Re: A weird thread…but lets do it

[quote=“phoenixdesi, post:3, topic:345557”]

0Silaaj , pls point out few strategic/political mistakes of Imran and 1 positive thing abt Altaf Hussain and Nawaz each0/QUOTE]

Major mistake **Imran **made was to go after a judicial commission against rigging, and an even bigger mistake, I feel, is to now go after another commission for Panama leaks. Commissions are, by design, made to fail. And I have a feeling this Panama leaks investigation will lead to nowhere.

Good thing about **Altaf **Hussain is his organizational ability. He runs a tight ship, and while you can disagree with some aspects of that, generally, it has reaped dividends for MQM in the past.

Nawaz, well…hes good for his kids. He siphoned money off for them for rainy days.