Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
French = Saudia Arabia.
Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
Why are you muslims so bigoted? They allowed her to stay in the country and be with her family as opposed ALL islamic countries that basically cut a person's organs off they don't do what they are told.
Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
Civil rights Shmivil rights!
About time, the Western countries put their foot down. No more immigration for the extremists. If you want to practice extreme form of any religion, just stay in your home country.
These type of fundamentalists ruin the fun of global interaction and travel. If you hate Roman customs, then why in the world you would even want to visit (or worse! settle in) Rome?
p.s. For the rest of the sane travelers, the old adage is still true "When in Rome, Do as Romans do" or just do it ;).
none of this makes sense. *immigration does so much to break the families. *
the hybrid and diasporic lives that we have got used to living, have their own hits to the personal sense of dignity.
why split a family? why look at a woman' head scarf to be her limitation? why bring in and combine the counter-productive outcomes of a said fair national legal-system and its stipulations around allowing a foreign citizen with the legal status to stay in the country, with the issue of race? these are all ethical issues.
petty ulterior motives could harm many things against the weak and the helpless.
no one can make this argument, that the migrated individual is not of any use to the country s/he migrates to.
the dichotomies of obtaining the legitimate status to be in any given country and the fortitude that people have to make use of, in order to withstand all kinds of hardships in getting established in a country, are all very problematic and testing situations for the families and perhaps also for the legal, national, and social systems in which these problems arise.
the age old restenments surface and the collateral damages gain shape only to further hurt the weak. so NO, the decision is not right and the role that the minister played is dubious.
however, what the immigrant could do and should be allowed to do, is to plea her case again. being covered on one's head with a pieace of cloth, symbolizing her affinity with her faith, is no damn reason to deny her a resident status.
While you have so eloquently argued about keeping the family together, you have forgotten one basic tenet. Why is it so essential that family stays in France. It can very well immigrate to the country from where the woman came from. She can have her niqab and keep it too. She wants to have the good life in France, but is not willing to abide by accepted customs in France. What hypocracy.
It is time that the muslim world realised what you pass around comes back to you..
I bet if she had a low cut clothes or miniskirt showing her privates she would have been granted citizenship without any further question.
OR
If she had proved she had sex with a man or woman in one night with her husband approving it by smiling/enjoying on it .................she would have been consdered a bonafide "Frenchwoman" with a stamp of approval!
Yep. Thats the French liberal way now a days!
Good thing that not a single country that I know in this world requires such silly/illogical requirements to be citizens.
(Now I do acknowledge that based on laws of world these days, citizenship is a privilige and not a right)
They why is she begging for citizenship from the country which has degraded so badly. How come you are so aware of the French liberal ways. Do you or your relatives live there. Did they use the same methods to become citizens. From the confidence you have spoken, I am sure about it.
Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
Its a violation of the Declaration of Human Rights. Its a violation of the Durban Declaration on racism and generally it is an example of islamophobia.
Under international norms, the government has the duty to provide services in a non-discriminatory manner. This is obviously discrimination.
They why is she begging for citizenship from the country which has degraded so badly. How come you are so aware of the French liberal ways. Do you or your relatives live there. Did they use the same methods to become citizens. From the confidence you have spoken, I am sure about it.
I am very much inclined to take it as a joke if not a personal attack...which can be considered as usual trait by guppies like you when they have no relevant point of argument to present.
Anyhow, In case you have problem understanding what is considered as sarcasm...my post was a sarcasm. Her opposite behaviour would not have barred her from getting citizenship. Ever heard of anyone being barred on the basis of what I wrote the scenario would have been?
Its too much to ask you but I would say (giving you benefit of doubt) discuss the matter instead of going into personal attack. Your post needs to be edited...the bolded portion.
Civil rights Shmivil rights!
About time, the Western countries put their foot down. No more immigration for the extremists. *If you want to practice extreme form of any religion, just stay in your home country. *
These type of fundamentalists ruin the fun of global interaction and travel. If you hate Roman customs, then why in the world you would even want to visit (or worse! settle in) Rome?
p.s. For the rest of the sane travelers, the old adage is still true "When in Rome, Do as Romans do" or just do it ;).
What should "extremists/fundamentalists" of the country do? You will kick them out as well?
However if she was already French (eg. native paleface) then she would be allowed to wear a burqa!
So much for fraternity, equality and liberty.
Cheers.
What should "extremists/fundamentalists" of the country do? You will kick them out as well?
Ehtasab bhai, why are you asking these rhetorical questions? You know better than that! Don't you?
As for the civil rights proponents, this aint a civil rights issue.
Here is a question for you guys. Do you think if a Taliban takes his wife in a shuttlecock burqa to a nude beach, and the beach people refuse them the entry, whose rights are being violated?
Or do think a Taliban should be allowed to take the shuttlecock burqa wearing wives to all the nude beaches?
I am very much inclined to take it as a joke if not a personal attack...which can be considered as usual trait by guppies like you when they have no relevant point of argument to present.
Anyhow, In case you have problem understanding what is considered as sarcasm...my post was a sarcasm. Her opposite behaviour would not have barred her from getting citizenship. Ever heard of anyone being barred on the basis of what I wrote the scenario would have been?
Its too much to ask you but I would say (giving you benefit of doubt) discuss the matter instead of going into personal attack. Your post needs to be edited...the bolded portion.
I perfectly understand sarcasm, but everything has a limit. The post was in very bad taste to insuniate that the French culture has degraded so badly. Your first post does not need to be edited. It needs to be deleted.
My relevant point was why is she so hell bent on getting citizenship to a country which has degraded so badly.
Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
French culture at its best - BBC NEWS | Europe | Changing faces in French workplace
Still one of the most racist countries on the planet.
Ehtasab bhai, why are you asking these rhetorical questions? You know better than that! Don't you?
As for the civil rights proponents, this aint a civil rights issue.
Here is a question for you guys. Do you think if a Taliban takes his wife in a shuttlecock burqa to a nude beach, and the beach people refuse them the entry, whose rights are being violated?
Or do think a Taliban should be allowed to take the shuttlecock burqa wearing wives to all the nude beaches?
Lets see how far we can extend this bit of reasoning. Since there are clubs where extracting pleasure out of torturing each other is the norm and people who object to that kind of thing shouldnt go there, the government has the right to monitor your sex life and tell you to include a little torture in there, its good for you. Just because there are mens only toilets that means it is okay to ban women anywhere you want.
Ehtasab bhai, why are you asking these rhetorical questions? You know better than that! Don't you?
People have suggested in past that if you can't "assimilate" in the society they should pack and leave but they forget that even 'natives' are now reverting and some of them become "orthodox", you guys have no solution for such people.
[quote]
Here is a question for you guys. Do you think if a Taliban takes his wife in a shuttlecock burqa to a nude beach, and the beach people refuse them the entry, whose rights are being violated?
Or do think a Taliban should be allowed to take the shuttlecock burqa wearing wives to all the nude beaches?
[/quote]
If the nude people have posted the signs or have in their rule-book "no veiled women allowed" then beach people can refuse entry.
I perfectly understand sarcasm,.............badly.
Nope you did not understand that.
There was nothing to suggest the French society has gone bad either. My post merely showed the 'extremism' on the opposite side being accepted...but not on her side.
As to her 'hell bent'...that has not been an issue here.
The thread mentioned the silly reason why she was denied citizenship. I have already mentioned its not her right to get citizenship. (She should be able to apeal however) So you are barking up the wrong tree here.
Anyway no point discussing with you. I cannot make you understand logic. You will come up with another personal attack.
Re: A Veil Closes France’s Door to Citizenship
Unlike religious affiliations (which one can pick and change) nationality is a legal thing first. If she doesn't fulfill the legal rqmnts she should be just glad they're letting stay.
These people don't mind their rights of not being killed raped or starved being taken away in their country but come to west and start western values. Opportunist fools
I applaud the French. Just as a communist can never become a member of a society practicing capitalism, a muslim can never be a member of a secular state as envisaged in the French revolution, just as a non-muslim can never be a member of a Muslim state. It is inherently contradictory. I hope this action further reinforces the ideological boundaries that exist between secularists and muslims.
Unlike religious affiliations (which one can pick and change) nationality is a legal thing first. If she doesn't fulfill the legal rqmnts she should be just glad they're letting stay.
These people don't mind their rights of not being killed raped or starved being taken away in their country but come to west and start western values. Opportunist fools
Do you actually read what you write Sir?
Whats this got to do with being raped/starved or killed in their country?
Surely these things are bad and "these people" (meaning these dirty, pathetic, meager people the condecending way you wrote) have no fault in it.
Wearing a veil by choice is a silly, baseless reason to be disqualified for citizenship. But if thats the decision then it must be accepted by her.
Many have said its so good they are letting her stay...and praising french decision....did she commit a crime?
Somehow gay people, nudists, adulterous, etc. are OK to get citizenship but this woman cannot for the reason in question?
Mind you I did not say gay/nudists/adulterous/ incestous should not be allowed citizenship in france..thats the point I want to make sure you get.
People have suggested in past that if you can't "assimilate" in the society they should pack and leave but they forget that even 'natives' are now reverting and some of them become "orthodox", you guys have no solution for such people.
If the nude people have posted the signs or have in their rule-book "no veiled women allowed" then beach people can refuse entry.
Ehtasab bro! you got it all wrong here.
The situation is very simple. If a Taliban wants to keep his wife in shuttlecock burqa, he should simply stay in FATA. Then it is upto FATA (local) or Pakistan (national level) to deal with the shuttlecock.
However if the same Taliban one day decides to immigrate to the West, he very well knows that shuttlecock burqa is not the norm in the destination / country. If he still insists on immigrating to the West, then all bets are off.
It is possible that the his new adopted country would accept his wife's burqa or they may not. You give up some of your "cultural rights" when you want to settle in a new country.
That's all. Let's not make it more complicated than it really is.
Ehtasab bro! you got it all wrong here.
The situation is very simple. If a Taliban wants to keep his wife in shuttlecock burqa, he should simply stay in FATA. Then it is upto FATA (local) or Pakistan (national level) to deal with the shuttlecock.
However if the same Taliban one day decides to immigrate to the West, he very well knows that shuttlecock burqa is not the norm in the destination / country. If he still insists on immigrating to the West, then all bets are off.
It is possible that the his new adopted country would accept his wife's burqa or they may not. You give up some of your "cultural rights" when you want to settle in a new country.
That's all. Let's not make it more complicated than it really is.
We are talking about "legal" issues, not "moral", court should be deciding cases on "legal" basis. If France has a law which bars veiled women from acquiring citizenship then sure go ahead (at the cost of calling yourself secular/freedom-lover).
Taliban with 1 meter long beard, shalwar 0.25 meter above from ground has all legal backing if he wants to move around anywhere in the world as long as he is not breaking a "law" and immigrate to a country which doesn't specifically bar a bearded/high-shalwar-keeper from citizenship.