I agree with Mirch that in old age sometimes your judgement is not the best.
What is the difference of dying in US verus dying in pakistan. Will he get fullfilment being there or maybe there is a sense of belonging that will provide him the greatest comfort?
But what about not being able to see your loved ones near you? So one sons takes him there - obviously not everyone is going to be there. Wouldn't you want your closest relatives to be around you.
We had a very similar situation in our family and they left for Pakistan a few weeks ago. They were also recommended to not travel and the whole plethora of reasons about why its so much better for them to stay in US, but the patient(their mom) was insisting and her family had to leave with her. I know that atleast two of the members were pursuing once-in-a-lifetime opportunities at the time, but it didn't matter to them and it was SO brave of them to support their mum's decision.
I think in your case, at this stage in their dad's life they should take the time to go to Pakistan with him and spend that time according to his wishes. oh and for those worried about facilities in Pak, there is NO difference. Talking from experience, I can tell you that he'll get the same treatment- all they need is to spend some money because there's no insurance to cover the bills in Pakistan.
What is the difference of dying in US verus dying in pakistan. Will he get fullfilment being there or maybe there is a sense of belonging that will provide him the greatest comfort?
yup this, sometime just living in environment is more important then living with your loved one's !
Pretty judgmental of you to say that if the kids and their families don't give up six months of their lives and move to Pakistan that they are being selfish and haven't the right to call their father their dad.
So questions for each and everyone here who thinks that the kids are being selfish:
1) How many of you would want to be with your parents during their last months and do khidmat for their parents?
2) How many of you PLUS your own families AND your siblings PLUS their families could pick up stakes and move to another country for six months to spend that time with the parent?
Added to that, you're going to a country that is facing political turmoil and where the medical care is not as good as the father may receive here.
I'm sorry but he has Stage 4 Cancer and there is NO CURE. Also in the US there is a thing called the FMLA, Family Medical Leave Act, specially designed for this type of situation.
The sons should take time off of work and take their father to Pakistan, while the rest of the family stays behind. They should then consult the local hospitals in the Pakistan and decide the best possible care so that he is not in pain during his last days.
Oh and yes, I would leave everything behind to fulfill the last wishes of my parents.
So he could get better treatment in the US, Yet hes insisting on going to pakistan to die? Would i give him his wish to do that? No. I would put my foot down and give it my all to get him the best treatment going. Regardless of what he was saying. God Fordbid if my dad was in that situation you best believe i would not be sending him to pakistan to just die. I would give my all, My last penny would go into the best treatment going.
So he could get better treatment in the US, Yet hes insisting on going to pakistan to die? Would i give him his wish to do that? No. I would put my foot down and give it my all to get him the best treatment going. Regardless of what he was saying. God Fordbid if my dad was in that situation you best believe i would not be sending him to pakistan to just die. I would give my all, My last penny would go into the best treatment going.
bibi jee you didn't read it, its stage 4 one way or other way.. it's going to get worst in few weeks !
That is such a scary and tough situation to be in. I would want to fulfill my father's request, but not sure if I can handle it. What about all the family that can not go to Pakistan. I mean someone mentioned FMLA...realistically only so many would get approved for that...etc...and only so many can go with him I am sure. I can not imagine how difficult it will to be to say goodbye knowing that may be last time you will ever see him again. It is such a tough call, pray no one ever has to go through with that and pray Allah gives the family strength and sabr, and make the father's pain and suffering easy on him
Stage 4 people cannot think things through , the sons can make better decisions for this seriously sick person.
If they drive him around for few hour and bring him back and tell him that he is in Pakistan or America or Timbuktu, he cannot tell the difference.
Who is in a better position to make a good decision ? A terminally ill person or a completely healthy person ? You be the judge.
Let me be extreme. If their dad asks them to poison him to rid him of pain will they comply ? No, right ?
Stage 4 people can think. Their brain isn't affected and are quite capable of being rational. Now, whether they are jazbati or stubborn is a whole other issue, but to imply that someone who has advanced cancer is mentally incapable of making any rational decisions is very irresponsible and quite insulting.
I am actually fuming that you wrote that. What an idiotic thing to say. I'm so offended. You know what, have you ever even seen someone with stage 4 colon cancer? Then saying they don't know how to think? What you wrote is so incredibly ignorant.
Njgal, what are his reasons for wanting to go to Pakistan?
everyone is trying to tell him, what is best for him without listing what he wants ... Sometimes in life (stage4 cancer is one of those times), decisions should be made on what will make someone happy and now what is "best for him".
O please people. get a grip on your emotions. Sons are right. Forget about pre_death logistics, dont they want to visit his grave after he is dead. Will they go to Pakistan every time they feel like touching his qabar.
My whole family is here and my dad's grave is in Pakistan. I know what I go through when I think that there is no one over there to even pour some water on his grave.
Maybe they need to have some counselor or Imam sahib of local mosque talk to the father.
Stage 4 people can think. Their brain isn't affected and are quite capable of being rational. Now, whether they are jazbati or stubborn is a whole other issue, but to imply that someone who has advanced cancer is mentally incapable of making any rational decisions is very irresponsible and quite insulting.
I am actually fuming that you wrote that. What an idiotic thing to say. I'm so offended. You know what, have you ever even seen someone with stage 4 colon cancer? Then saying they don't know how to think? What you wrote is so incredibly ignorant.
Njgal, what are his reasons for wanting to go to Pakistan?
Oh phlease , mind your language. I did not insult anybody. I said it the way I see it. Being jasbati and stubborn also results in lack of thinking things through.
Like you lost your cool now in this post and called me many names which is uncalled for.
Njgal, what are his reasons for wanting to go to Pakistan?
I dunno Mehnaz - maybe it's where he thought he would die. He has no family or residence there. But worked a considerable amount of his life there. Maybe he has a sense of belonging to the city.
I have felt that elderly folks that migrate here for the sake of their children always feel a bit out of place. Like the don't belong.
[mod]Okay guys I know this is a very sensitive topic and I understand if emotions get the better of us, but I know all of you are mature enough to discuss this in a civil manner sooo let's make our points without using foul language. Thanks! [/mod]
Coming back to the topic , once a person is gone, its quite tough on the love ones who are left behind. I understand that the gentleman who is on his death bed: it must be really hard for him to think logically and he wants to be buried next to his own parent's grave. However, I personally believe that the final resting place of any individual should be closer to the ones who are left behind than to the ones who already left this world.
Its a very very tough situation on all fronts..
I think financial issues could be one factor, FMLA can be taken but it can have issues at work no matter how much you are told that there is no impact, plus 6 months loss of income can be tough on many people
so then brothers may say they can be there a few months at a time, which works with work and their financial obligations
however, i suppose they would want to maximize their time with their father and may think this would prevent that happening
in the end they should focus ion the father's wishes more, he can make his decisions and he is asking his kids for help in one of his last major wishes. they should do it.
My father requested the same thing; he wanted to be taken back to Pakistan, which we all absurd and really strange, as he was born and bred in the UK and western life was all he knew. We all pleaded him.....but his wish was his wish.
Knowing that he's buried in a land foreign to me. Knowing that i cannot even kneel beside him. He got his "aakhri khwaish"....but it's the biggest regret of my life that i did not forcefully override this. It may sound selfish, but i say this, for the following reason:
However, I personally believe that the final resting place of any individual should be closer to the ones who are left behind than to the ones who already left this world.
in the end they should focus ion the father's wishes more, he can make his decisions and he is asking his kids for help in one of his last major wishes. they should do it.
X2, I dont want to turn it into a religious discussion, but even Islamically, sons are not obligated to fulfill his dying wish if the logistics are over whelming. Its like me dying and wishing that the whole city should be invited for my quran khawani. My family will not be obligated to fulfill that wish.
Knowing that he's buried in a land foreign to me. Knowing that i cannot even kneel beside him. He got his "aakhri khwaish"....but it's the biggest regret of my life that i did not forcefully override this.