The book of Matthew also contains the passage: “And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.”
So this man in Idaho cut off his own hand and put it in the Microwave and cooked it then called the Police…
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080110/ap_on_fe_st/microwaved_hand;_ylt=Ag6SpvIgt1nd1noVEIoRJnKhOrgF
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
^ How is this any different from cutting of the hands of thieves in Islamic Shariah Law?
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
^ How is this any different from cutting of the hands of thieves in Islamic Shariah Law?
Are you really serious in asking this question or are you joking? Can't you tell the difference between the two instances?
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
^ I am fairly serious, although it is my opinion... The only difference is that one is personal violation of one's body and the other is a judicial violation. I know this will digress, but I hold that the order for theives is to have their hands restricted, and not "cut off"... restriction as opposed to amputation has a major implication that it may not have to do with physical restrainment (perhaps temporary, but not permanent).
Either scenarios of amputation are tragic IMO.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Well its about to digress.
Br. Hyp, though I sometimes find your translation of verses quite helpful, why is it they always run contrary to all historical accounts of things?
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
hmm 
well, have I ever said contrary to there being One God and that Muhammad is His Prophet?
“Sometimes” may have its roots in me not being able to swallow something my reasoning tells me is contradticting a universal message.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
hmm :) well, have I ever said contrary to there being One God and that Muhammad is His Prophet?
"Sometimes" may have its roots in me not being able to swallow something my reasoning tells me is contradticting a universal message.
:)
Sorry not pasting Arabic here but the word used throughout Quran where it mentions cutting off something is (QAF-TWA-AIN as in Qata'). Especially the verses concerning Pharoahs threats for cutting off hands and feet and crucifying the people, its the same arabic root word. I have found only one different word in Surah Kauthar (Ba-Ta-Ra as in Abtar) which carries the same meaning as cutting off. I still am not convinced that cutting off here is figurative in the sense to protect the society by cutting off their access to society or vice versa.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
What a great example of how literalism in religion is unreasonable and uwise.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
^ Yep, that's the one :)
Bro USR, let's keep investigating further.
5:38 For a habitual thief, male or female, fa-qaTa'oo aidiyahumaa. This is the JAZAA for their doings, and a deterrent from God. God is Almighty, Wise.
5:39 Whoever repents after the crime and makes amends, certainly, God grants him pardon. Surely, God is Forgiving, Merciful.
How will one make ammends after his hands are cut off, and how will he be pardoned for repentence after an ultimate punishment (JAZAA) of permanent amputation has been served? The last time I checked, humans do not have yet the ability to grow severed limbs. Some Divine Wisdom...
Yadd does not always mean hand... but rather ability. Yad-illah does not mean a physical hand of God... it is figurative, at least in my books.
Now read this, fa-qTa'oo aidiyahuma: CUT OFF THEIR ABILITY (to steal)... that could be imprisonment, fine, surveillance, criminal record, making the thief pay off what was robbed (which is in the case of the story of Yousuf in the Quran, the most just of all punishments.)
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
interesting
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
When you say Aiyidahuma, it means hands in the plural. It wouldn’t have made sense to say ABILITIES. Even according to Lane, YAD is not ability.
In the verse 5:39 where you have translated Whoever for (Faman) is actually reading in continuation of the verse before so it would really be like “BUT IF”. What you have done in your translation is knocked off the conjunction which joins these two verses. Without the conjunction it reads as two separate verses contradicting each other. Read with the conjunction its quite easy to see that it means this is the punishment for the crime but if they repent then leave it to the mercy of Allah SWT.
So your verse translation should be reading like:
5:39 but whoever repents after the crime and makes amends, certainly, God grants him pardon. Surely, God is Forgiving, Merciful.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Salam Bro
RE: 5:39, very noteworthy observation and I certainly correct myself there. However, it is not so much as in “But-if/However repents” since that sounds awkward so the correct mapping is rather “Then whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends …”
My argument is that yad does not mean a physical hand in all cases for if it always meant physical hands, how would you think of يد الله فوق أيديهم (literally: “God’s Hand is Above their hands” - notice the quantization - is God unihanded? This cannot be literal) and ظهر الفساد في البر والبحر بما كسبت أيدي الناس ليذيقهم (literally: “The damage has appeared/been-realized/brought-forth in the land and the sea at the hands of people by what they earn” and then the verse talks about the destruction of those nations - But if the hands are responsible then punish the hands; why punish the rest of the body and soul - So correctly “People have used their God-given abilities to plunder the land and sea for personal gain [instead of using worldly resources for the betterment of humanity]”).
If by aidiyahuma you think it means both hands of both the male and female robber (dual quantity), it is actually referring back to the ability of the male robber, and ability of the female robber, just like God’s “hand” (single) is above the “hands” (plural) of men.
Now, regarding aidiyahuma I translated as ability in the plural sense since saying “resources” does not fit well in the English context… I wish there were a one-to-one mapping scheme but I guess the way you translated it (as “abilities”) does seem to have fit in.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Salam Bro :)
RE: 5:39, very noteworthy observation and I certainly correct myself there. However, it is not so much as in "But-if/However repents" since that sounds awkward so the correct mapping is rather "Then whoever repents after his wrongdoing and makes amends ..."
My argument is that yad does not mean a physical hand in all cases for if it always meant physical hands, how would you think of يد الله فوق أيديهم (literally: "God's Hand is Above their hands" - notice the quantization - is God unihanded? This cannot be literal) and ظهر الفساد في البر والبحر بما كسبت أيدي الناس ليذيقهم (literally: "The damage has appeared/been-realized/brought-forth in the land and the sea at the hands of people by what they earn" and then the verse talks about the destruction of those nations - But if the hands are responsible then punish the hands; why punish the rest of the body and soul - So correctly "People have used their God-given abilities to plunder the land and sea for personal gain [instead of using worldly resources for the betterment of humanity]").
If by aidiyahuma you think it means both hands of both the male and female robber (dual quantity), it is actually referring back to the ability of the male robber, and ability of the female robber, just like God's "hand" (single) is above the "hands" (plural) of men.
Now, regarding aidiyahuma I translated as ability in the plural sense since saying "resources" does not fit well in the English context... I wish there were a one-to-one mapping scheme :) but I guess the way you translated it (as "abilities") does seem to have fit in.
Here is a verse from Surah Maidah (Yusuf Ali translation):
5:33 The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His Messenger, and strive with might and main for mischief through the land is: execution, or crucifixion, or the cutting off of hands and feet from opposite sides, or exile from the land: that is their disgrace in this world, and a heavy punishment is theirs in the Hereafter; إِنَّمَا جَزَاء الَّذِينَ يُحَارِبُونَ اللّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَيَسْعَوْنَ فِي الأَرْضِ فَسَادًا أَن يُقَتَّلُواْ أَوْ يُصَلَّبُواْ أَوْ تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُم مِّنْ خِلافٍ أَوْ يُنفَوْاْ مِنَ الأَرْضِ ذَلِكَ لَهُمْ خِزْيٌ فِي الدُّنْيَا وَلَهُمْ فِي الآخِرَةِ عَذَابٌ عَظِيمٌ (5:33)
There is certain reason why I posted this verse. It is specifically addressing means of punishment which would subject the body. Notice the Arabic verbiage is the same used here Aiyidihim refering to physically hands alongwith with the plural of Rajal (Arjulukum i.e. feet). Exact same phrase, cutting off ability would not even make sense here along with execution and cruxifiction or even ability and feet. The same is the case with verse 5:38. It is not ability, it is physical hands.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Peace USResident and hypnotix-2000
First of all we cannot use the terms used in the Qur'an describing Allah (SWT) and those describing humans as 1:1 equally superimposable. We know that Allah (SWT) is nothing like creation so the limitations of the Arabic language in fact any language only permits us to utilise the terms as some sort of similar substitute.
Secondly has anyone thought that both the figurative and the literal are correct understandings in the case of punishment there is a Hadd to which a literal extent can be applied.
Now this man in the US who cut of his hand if he did so with the intention to prevent himself from theft, then this will be up to God to Judge. This permanent damage is one which is justified because the crime may itself be permanent damage.
The sad part about the story was the cooking of the hand, he obviously misinterpreted the Bible, it says nowhere about cooking the severed limbs.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
To bro Psyah:
Brother, your post is remarkable in how you support violation through cutting off one's hand in favour of "judgement" by God, and then feel sad about the "cooking" of the hand... let's not escalate this further as I clearly see where that would lead us.
To bro USR:
Again, I would translate it as: يُقَتَّلُواْ "Kill them in combat", or يُصَلَّبُواْ "sentence them to capital punishment (after you overpower them and they still try to conspire)", or تُقَطَّعَ أَيْدِيهِمْ وَأَرْجُلُهُم مِّنْ خِلافٍ "cut off their abilities/resources (to fight/plot/conspire) and their movement from opposite side (perhaps from an outside supporter/influence)", or يُنفَوْاْ مِنَ الأَرْضِ "exile them from the land" ...
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Yeah, this poor sap chops off his hand and “the sad part about the story was the cooking of the hand” 
The sad part is that he took any part of that literally.
Everyone would end up blind and dismembered if they followed these texts literally. How would anyone be able to do the work that God had set out for them if they dismembered their body parts that sinned? If one was to take this verse literally, their tongue would eventually be cut off, their eyes gouged and their penises chopped off. What happens if a man sins in his heart, does he cut out his heart? And wouldn’t that be a shame if he cooked it.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Off topic but what is the punishment for a homosexua in holy Bible?
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Br. This would be an explanation that accomodates both our POV of views and much similar to the opinions I hold about Hudood. To me the Quran defines the limits of the punishment as you have stated, it could be lesser or alternative means of punishment if it serves the purpose of impeding the crime or it can take the shape of what comes from the literal meaning such as the verse we are discussing here. My disagreement with Br. Hyp is that he does not agree with the literal extremity and holds the view in lieu of his translation that it cannot be the case at all.
Re: A sick person Interprets Bible Passage-cuts off hand!
Brought out some interesting points of view hypnotix-2000, however did you notice this Man in Idaho first applied/took the Law unto/onto his own hand…and then summoned the State Law!..
But your interesting iterpretation of the Quranic Edict as “Limiting the Stealer’s reach” could follow in line with many other parrables present in the Holy Book.
The point I was trying to make in this post is if each person were to make their own interpretation of the Holy Books and not wait for due process…you end up with who knows what…like this guy…