A Request

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

First of all, i just wanted you people to know that i have not been around for last few days and won’t be for next 10 days or so, so please bear with us for few days if your requests are not attended to quickly.

Secondly, i am disappointed by many my fellow muslim brothers when it coms to discussion on religious matters. When it comes to discussion with christians, i have often seen that they are not careless of what they right about our Holy Prophet pbuh, although we as muslims respect Jesus a.s and we cannot respond to them in the same way.

Similarly with intersect dialogue, like between shia-sunni, the sunnis show utmost respect for Hz Ali ra, Imam Hassan and Hussain ra, though they don’t do that towards people that sunnis respect like Hz Abu Bakr and Omer ra.

I have always felt that christians should not disrespect muslim holy figures and shias also should not disrespect Sahaba, atleast, as courtesy to the people who maintain respect for their holy figures.

In the same way, i think, we muslims should not throw insults at people whom Ahmedis/Lahoris/Qadianis consider their holy figures, as they maintain respect for our Prophet pbuh.

And lastly, once you throw an insult into the argument you completely shut off other person from listening to you, it then just becomes personal. So you may actually be harming the cause of Islam.

2

Re: A Request

^ this is true. Whether Muslim or Christian of Sikh or Hindu or Jew ...show respect to each other. Then all will be ok. No more bombs

3

So you ment to say just hear what all say and keep mum to yourself even if you know and see its not what "the truth" is.. so whats use of the Religion Forum then, if we even cant say what we believe in? You mean that we should respect that Mizra and while he has done a lot good to try his best to break and create more misunderstandings in Islam?

4

The only thing good I spot in your reply was a spelling mistake...lolzz

5

No brother, i mean to say that you can always show the truth without using the words like liar, dajjal etc. Look at brother psyah, he is a better muslim than most of us and yet he never insults anyone in his posts.

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Re: A Request

Psyah is surely a Gem of GS...a great find...no doubt.

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Re: A Request

Icon nice post. I liked it :k:

8

ahan.. theek.. enjoy your forum then, where a person cant even say what is right and what is worn.. I better stay away from it.

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Peace brothers

Astaghfirullah ... I do not deserve such words and May Allah (SWT) make me in reality better than what I am perceived to be.

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Re: A Request

^No no Psyah...trust me you have good patience...dont worry mien makhan nahin lagaa raha...lolz

Timepass-April 2014
11

If you want to show what is right ot wrong to muslims, then they already know it, and if you want to show that to others do you think, liar, dajjal etc count as arguments? And by the way, its not my forum. Its as much as yours as mine. Few days ago i was just another poster, while other people were moderator, tomorrow, i may be just another poster, and it may be you who is modersting.

12

Mr. Iconoclast;

[QUOTE]

In the same way, i think, we muslims should not throw insults at people whom Ahmedis/Lahoris/Qadianis consider their holy figures, as they maintain respect for our Prophet pbuh.

using the words like liar, dajjal etc.

[/QUOTE]

You are confirming to me and other Muslims that you provide unfair protection to Qadianis on this site. You deliberately are applying the policies which are against the laws and Constitution of the country where most of the participant on this forum reside in.

I already had private conversations with Mr. TLK regarding these matters.

For your information, Mirza, the biggest liar humanity has ever seen; written against.

  • Holy Quran, he plagiarised verses from the Holy Quran and inserted some words from himself to declare that it was revealed to him. This biggest heresy someone can perform against Allah SWT, the Holy Quran and Prophet Muhammad SAW. And you mean we should respect him?

  • He has said nasty things about Prophet SAW, and we should respect him?
    He has written down right lies and used extremely foul and abusive language against ISA AS i.e. Jesus As and we should respect him?

  • I have exposed his lies in factual terms in my articles, these articles are published, I live in London, where their Jamat Headquarters are, why can’t they take me to the High Court in London? I challenge them to issue a writ against me, if they think Mirza was not a liar and was a truthful person. Who is stopping them?

I am a EU citizen Article 10 of Convention of Human Rights says;

[QUOTE]

Everyone has the right to freedom of expression. This right shall include freedom to hold opinions and to receive and impart information and ideas without interference by public authority and regardless of frontiers. This article shall not prevent States from requiring the licensing of broadcasting, television or cinema enterprises.

[/QUOTE]

Are you telling me you want to take away my legal rights for freedom of expression and free speech given to me by the article? *To hold my opinions and communicate those opinions; rights provided by the Convention applicable in EU member states; they supersede laws of every country which holds EU membership? *

Who is stopping Qadianis to prove me wrong? Go to the courts I say. But I will not allow people like you to interfere with my posts or my threads. I have given fair warning of this to Mr. TLK. I didn’t wanted to come in the open and criticise the deliberate policies this site is adopting to protect Qadianis. I will make sure, that you do not get away with it. Now you have provided clear cut proof of your deliberate policies to us Muslims.

Mr. Iconoclast Tell me, why can’t I have the rights to call these people Kaffirs, when Mirza and his son Ka-Lip II has called all the Muslims who do not believe in the lies of Mirza as Kaffirs. Every human being on this earth, who has not even heard of Mirza is a Kaffir, according to their Ka-lip II (Kaffir Lip II, that’s what it means if you want to know the real meaning of what I write).

I was declared Kaffir by Mirza and his extremely immoral and sexually perverted son, before I was born. And you are telling me I can not call Mirza a liar, a Kaffir, a blasphemer? Are you taking my legal rights to defend myself against anyone who labels accusations against me and call me Kaffir?

Try this against me in a court of Law Mr. Because I had enough of you and your policies. That’s why I gave Mr. TLK fair warnings. Next step will be to take care of you and your site, properly.

*My request to All Muslims Brothers and Sisters on this site; do not listen to these Moderators. They can think whatever they want in their heads. But they have absolutely no legal rights to stop you from writing the truth and you expressing your point of view. They could be put in to whole lot of difficulties. They just don’t realise their legal responsibilities, this title of Moderator has gone in to their heads. They think of themselves as demi- gods. *

*We all should stand up to them, and say no to their deliberate policies of appeasement and protection to these Qadianis. *

I give you all one example of heresy of Mr. Popat in the other thread he has written this,

[QUOTE]

the conversation took place was so that there wont be anymore misconception of Jesus (AS)'s death. When Christians were thinking that He went up in heavens and jews were thinking that they killed him, Allah said to him that he'll cause him to die a natural death.

[/QUOTE]

Now please pay attention, I specially want Mr. Iconoclast and Psyah attention, they have to explain me this heresy of Mr. Popat a Qadiani?

*Do you understand what this heretic has written against Allah SWT and the Holy Quran? *

Do you understand what accusations he is hurling at Allah SWT here? You claim to have knowledge of Islam. How you are running this forum then? How you are making declarations and judgments when you allow this kind of posts from these Qadianis and you want us Muslims to respect them and Mirza?

I even asked him clarifications but he provided none, here is the proof of my clarifications request.

[QUOTE]

Christians were thinking he AS ascended to heaven and Jews were thinking they killed him, after the crucifixion, isn’t?
Are you saying therefore, this conversation took places after the crucifixion and after Isa As escaping the crucifixion according to Mirza?
Didn’t you earlier say this conversation took place because he AS was given hard time and was persecuted by the Jews?

[/QUOTE]

He never gave any answers. Now think, he is accusing Allah SWT that HE SWT had this discussion after the alleged crucifixion of Isa As, I have already provided proofs from the writings of Mirza and Zafrullah’s they said, it took place before the crucifixion.

Let me make clear to the consequences and implications of this paragraph to you so called Moderators of this religious forum.

If he is trying to say, this conversation taken place after crucifixion, then there are three possibilities.

*Jesus was still alive on earth after the crucifixion, which is not correct, according to the Christians and the Jews and also according to the Muslims. *

There are two groups of Muslims in this world.

*Those who believe Jesus was taken to the heavens alive before crucifixion. *
*Muslims who believe Allah SWT sent Angels to Prophet ISA before crucifixion and cause him As to die and then he was taken to the Heavens. *

Therefore, it is the consensus of the Muslim Ummah that Jesus was taken to the heavens, either alive or dead before the crucifixion, but he did not suffer the crucifixion.

Now look at the consequences and implications of the statement made by Mr. Popat, he is accusing Allah SWT (nauzobillah) of revealing this verse in the Holy Quran as an after the events narrations, i.e. that this conversation took place when Christians were claiming Jesus As as god and Jews were boasting they killed him As. He should take a look at the history and see when these ideas especially Christians calling Jesus As as god started to take take shape.

He does not even realize his stupid comments are putting even his own Mirza in to deep trouble. Which I will expose later on in the relevant thread.

My point is this Qadiani Popat is entitled to write white lies, against universally held beliefs of all three major faiths of the world, but we Muslims are not entitled to call him a heretic? Call him and Mirza a liar?

*I don’t know what you thinking, but I know for sure, you can not stop me, writing what I want against them and against Mirza. Try if you must, and I will take you to the task. *

Mr. TLK, I gave you fair warnings. I am keeping copy of this post and posts by Mr. Iconoclast as proofs. You simply can not blame me; it is very apparent what policies you are applying. As I said maximum you can do is to ban me, but then what? What difference it will make it to me? Absolutely none, I can still write on my web log, publish books, do what I want. You simple can not take my rights away from me.

Let me tell you, the lies and heresies of Mirza are published and are in circulations, nobody is stopping their publication.

And you think in your right mind, that I or any Muslim, Christian or Jew does not have the right to challenge what Mirza and his cronies have written in their books and articles on their website? Expose their lies? Call them liars after proving their lies?

As I have written to you in my private messages, the lawyers in every Court around the world call witnesses and excused as liars in front of Judges, if they have proofs of their lies. This right is acceptable in every court around the world, but you telling me this universally held right is not acceptable in this forum and on this site? You are having a laugh ain't you?

*I advice you think hard and long, I have warned you before, this is my last warning. Keep these so called Moderators of yours in check. *

*I also demand that those 3 threads should be re-opened within 48 hours. They had enough time to review them, so no more excuses. Take it whichever way you want, but I have given you enough warnings. Now ban me if you wish. But don’t you forget the consequences of your actions. *

*Mr. TLK, as I have said it before, any one claiming he is a prophet; does not become one, nor he becomes a religious personality. These Qadianis are hypocrites of highest class and order. I challenge them to write categorical statements that they accept claims of all other claimants of Prophet Hood after Prophet SAW. And consider them as holy personalities. They never would, there are proofs after proofs in the writings of Mirza and their cult’s resources. So these hypocrites should not complain if we treat Mirza exactly the same way. *

My next step would be to take you to the task. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

*Mr. Iconoclast, you can try to delete this post, if you so wish, but you should not forget, I am keeping copies of it as a proof, that it was posted on your forum. *

I demand an unconditional apology from you Mr. Iconoclast.

Mr. TLK that apology is over due now. Mr. Iconoclast has made it very clear what your policies are; there is absolutely no doubt about them anymore, but unluckily for you I have the proof of his and my posts published on your forum.

*I said earlier, I think you are a sensible person, but you can prove me wrong if you so wish. Otherwise, you know what I have written before and now make whole lot of sense. *

Peace

13

Iconoclast;

*One more point which escaped my mind; you say their religious personalities. What religion do they claim they have? As you are well aware they call themselves “true Muslims”. *

Therefore, are you claiming I should accept their claims and accept that these heretics i.e Mirza and his lying cheating, money grabbing, family became religious personalities of Islam and Muslims?

I am sure you are out of your mind. **
**Peace

14

Re: A Request

crankthastkunk

Consider this an honest advice from a fellow muslim.

1- No you don't have to accept their claims (nor do i or 6.7 billion people on face of the earth), but, that does not mean ridiculing or throwing insults. As an example, instead of saying like you do, **
[QUOTE]
Mirza and his lying cheating, money grabbing, family
[/QUOTE]
, ***you could also say,* i think Mirza Sahib's claims were aimed at having worldy gains for himself and his family.

2- If your purpose is to prove that your arguments are irrefutable, then thats a personal goal and you will not get any reward from Allah for anything. If your purpose is to call people to "truth", your approach is counter productive. When you insult someone, he immediately becomes oblivious to any argument, its the rage that sets in rather than logic.

3- Having knowledge is one thing and being a debator is another. Read up on few books of good debators like Deedat, Zakir Naik, Ghamidi etc. You seem to have a lot of knowledge but you need to learn to put it concisely.

4- Its a sin to have "so-ey zan" for another muslim, i think you should ask forgiveness from Allah for thinking so ill of me, psyah and TLK.

15

you can be new to these things but I already have moderated many forums so I have no willing to do so even if offered.

Final - India v Sri Lanka, (06 April 2014) Shere Bangla National Stadium, Mirpur
16

@ point 2 How can you be so sure Allah wont reward him for what he is doing. I mean do you have direct link to Allah, that HE tells you what it will be? I mean if you are trying to tell us to be easy and accept all the lies then you should also be using diplomatic words like Allah knows how He will reward you. You only got fire when people started talking against Ahmedis here.

@ point 4 you are talking about "so-ey zan" it isnt and was never been a sin to tell other fellow Muslims or non-Muslim or Kafir what is right in Islam. Nobody just starts from taunting each other neither fighting. Even a Jahil person talk in a humble was first and then when a person think him / her as jerk. Its his way to let other know that listen it once or you will face the consequences in the world and also after it. (Now many fellow guppies will say again "Thekedaar" of Islam. Yes Muslim is.)

I am not running this website but publishing or giving a platform to let such falsified information about Islam (as I am concerned about it) is also a sin, think about it.

17

Iconoclast,

This is not the response I asked for, not that’s what I have written, have you not read it properly?

Secondly, try giving this advice to these Qadianis. I after my private messages, followed the advice of Mr. TLK and gone easy on them in my discussions with Popat. But what did they do? Didn’t you see example of his heresy? Also check that thread now, his cultists arrived there so they can start spoiling it.

Now Mr. Ouija is here, he very well knows, people like him, and others are defeated time and time again in each and every argument they had. But alas, do they pause and think?

Mr. Ouija is so incapable, that he will never ever answer anything, knowing fully well if he does, he will end up in problems. And you want me to accept them as “true Muslims”? You are having a laugh. Ask him how many lies of Mirza against Holy Quran are displayed by many Muslim brothers on their own forum, but none of them would answer Mirza’s blatant lies against Quran.

*You think Mirza is entitled to spread white lies against Quran, the Word of Allah SWT and I can not call him a liar? You want him to be accepted as religious personality of what? Mirza and these Qadianis called themselves “True Muslims”. Tell me please is Mirza a religious personality of Islam? Because that’s what he says, and he says you are a kaffir if you don’t believe in him or you call him a liar. So Mr. Iconoclast, are you a kaffir? Because that’s what mirza and his son has said about you. *

Three people you quoted; what can I say, if this what you have in mind as good debaters then only Allah SWT could help you.

You want to know my honest opinion about two of them?

Dr. Naik is a parrot, he just repeats what he has read, he copied almost every idea from Deedat. You should check Lahori’s web site, they accused him of plagiarism from one of their writers. They even have displayed so called proofs on their site.

How much do you know about Mr. Ghamdi? You should check his affiliations and source of his funds. Have you ever heard of the term mental conditioning? Psychological grooming? This is exactly the task given to him.

No thank you, I am better off like I am, thanks but no thanks, I can not sell my soul to those powers who are hell bound to destroy Muslims and Islam.

You want me to learn from these people? You are kidding me. Think something better.

I wouldn’t say anything for Deedat; he is no more in this world, therefore, there is no point writing something about him, may Allah SWT grant him peace.

You should check the web what these Qadianis say about people like Dr. Naik and Dr. Israr. They have posted videos after videos especially on the incredibly uninformed discussions of Dr. Israr.

Think about them as scholars if you so wish, but I have my own opinion. We Muslims would have been in far better conditions if we didn’t have so called scholars like these. Very recently, a novice like Mubashir; grilled Dr. Israr on the television, and poor Dr. Couldn’t answer his very simple questions. And you think these people are Scholars of Islam, good debaters? You can check it on the youtube, Qadianis are laughing at him on this incident too.

You are also mistaken to think what these Qadianis portray here; you should read the response their Ka-Lip III gave to the Pakistan Assembly. That’s should be enough to open your eyes, what they think about Muslims. They are open enemies of Islam and Muslims. Nothing about them is remotely Muslim. Given a chance they will wipe all of us Muslims from the face of this earth. You can have whatever opinion of them, but I have spent over 3 years, deeply studying everything in considerable details. I think I am entitled to my considered and well informed opinion.

Peace

18

Re: A Request

[note]
I have removed irrelevant posts
[/note]

19

Its not my place to speculate about whom Allah is rewarding or not, i was only talking in principle, that if anyone's intent is only to prove his/her wit, then thats not worthy of reward.

Who is saying that you should not tell what you beleive is right Deen, we are only saying that it should be done in a way that people who are listening are receptive to it.

20

Re: A Request

Icono a nice thread indeed.

**And I’d just like to add something here for the benfit of my fellow brothers/sisters in Islam. **

We have been told in the holy Qur’an that we should not be filled with hatred for any one, when they are wrong we should correct them in a very convincing manner and not use any insults or anything negative for that matter. We are also told that ‘we should not insult their ‘holy figures’ lest they in their ignorance throw insults at us against our Lord’

(am sorry i cant give any reference(ayah no.) now:bummer: maybe someone could help me here with this)

but the point is that we’re told here that we should maintain utmost respect for others, the same thing that we do with hatred/disrespect or whatever could be said in a very nice manner and the chances are greater that the person on the wrong path may understand better with this approach(ie peaceful one)

peace

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