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According to Christianity all mankind has a sinful nature and therefor sinners. There is nothing you personally can do to erase these sins. You are born infected with sin. The only sinless person was Jesus and that is why his sacrifice was necessary as toll for our sins.
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This is off topic but now I know why you said Zakir Naike does not have much knowledge what he says about Christinaity. It all make sence now why you said so…maybe you need a dose from Dr. Zakir Naike.
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No he did not.
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How was he tricked?
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Unfortunately that is a problem all religions face. There will always be a person with some idea that he has new/better insight. He atracts some followers and a new variation of an existing religion is born. The question is how to stop it from happening.
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^^
Islam faces no such problems...Everything is clearly defined like day from night...
The guppie you posted belongs to the sect that believes that Islam has been corrupted thereby nullifying the promise of Allah to guard Islam in the hearts and minds of Muslims...
As for Paul, wasn't he also the one who legitimized the consumption of pigs when the Bible definitively prohibits it...
According to Christian scholars, Paul had a vision in which all the animals that were fit for consumption was given to him in a vision which included pig which he saw three times...
So here is the million dollar question:
Paul is not god...He is not the son of god...He is not a Prophet...
What gives Paul the right to sanction the consumption of pigs when God in his Book has forbidden it? And why do Christians consume it then?
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I sometimes are amazed at the amount of rumours, stories and fiction that abounds in discussions about Christianity. Often these will be given as facts and people get upset when shown to be wrong. I also include Christians in this regard, and not just people of other faiths. It is because of my lack of knowledge of Islam that I started to visit Gupshup, and I have learned a whole lot since I started visiting.
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The guppie you posted belongs to the sect that believes that Islam has been corrupted thereby nullifying the promise of Allah to guard Islam in the hearts and minds of Muslims...
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I actually like reading PakistaniAbroad's comments on Islam as it makes more sense to me than some of the other posters. This doesn't reflect negatively on you as I found that one can at least have a discussion with you. It just is that I have to agree more with PA on certain issues such as the use of Hadiths, for example.
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As for Paul, wasn't he also the one who legitimized the consumption of pigs when the Bible definitively prohibits it...
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Paul did no such thing! In fact, he advised Christians to rather NOT eat pigs if the eating thereof will be detrimental to another Christian's faith.
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According to Christian scholars, Paul had a vision in which all the animals that were fit for consumption was given to him in a vision which included pig which he saw three times...
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Rather look for other scholars! The person that saw the vision was the disciple Peter.
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So here is the million dollar question:
Paul is not god...He is not the son of god...He is not a Prophet...
What gives Paul the right to sanction the consumption of pigs when God in his Book has forbidden it? And why do Christians consume it then?
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As explained above, Paul did not sanction the eating of pigs. Why do Christians consume pigs? Well, at the first official meeting between ALL leaders in the Christian movement in 48AD, it was decided that GOD through His Holy Spirit does not require non-Jewish Christians to hold to the ceremonial/cleanliness laws of the Jewish faith. You can read more about it in Acts.15. ALL Jesus' disciples were present and Paul did not even chair the meeting!
Re: A question
Old Man,
The claim of Paul having sanctioned the consumption of pigs was told to me by a former Catholic, born-Again Christian preacher who considered the Catholics Non-Christians…
And I know I couldn’t have misheard him because him and I engaged in many discourses and quoted him from my own limited knowledge of the Bible…
To which his answer in the end of the argument would always be, “Islam is a murderous, dangerous religion and you should stay away from it…I tell you this because I like you…” 
So, I cannot be mistaken…
So, which account do I use?
As for PA’s ideologies are concerned, he rejects the Ahadith…
So, if he rejects Ahadiths, then where do we get how to pray, how prepare for worship and the sections of Zakaat to be given out and how to perform Hajj…All part of the pillars of Islam…
So obviosly you’re gonna like him…He just knocked a few pillars out from under Islam…
So, rejecting Hadith is like accepting half of Islam and disbelieving the other half…They are called Quraneen, Quranites or Pervaizis…They take the literal word of God as the Quranand reject all that was done and spoken by the Prophet of Allah :saw:…
It’s like being a Christian and not paying importance to the books of Paul, John, Matthew, Luke e.t.c…Even as far as rejecting Christ (Although Xtians consider him god)…
It doesn’t happen in Judaism or Christianity, so how can we allow it in Islam?
Re: A question
You use the correct one which can be found in Acts.10v9-16. I have met/known many Christians that do not know the basics very well, even some theological Professors. Titles do not mean much. As Christian it is the personal relationship with God that counts. Some old lady down the street might be a better source of Christianity than a university Professor.
As for PA, I like him because he does not accept everything as the gospel truth but investigate all. I like him because he tends to highlight problem areas in what other Muslims believe. This doesn't mean I like him because he downgrade Islam in any way. It's just is that I can understand his way of thinking that there should be logic to everything.
I understand why you and other Muslims need the Hadiths as well. It's to tell you in detail how to pray, etc. as indicated by you. BUT, does it REALLY matter that much how these things should be done if it is not spelled out clearly in the Quran? If it was SO important to do things in exactly the correct way, surely it would have been indicated in the Quran? Islam believes the Quran to be perfect. Perfect means it does not require additional information in order to understand.
In Islam the Quran is everything. That PA believes in. Without the Quran, there almost can't be Islam. In Christianity, without the Holy Spirit there is nothing. Take away the Bible and Christians will most probably be better off with less differences. As in Islam, Christianity also have some "pillars". Maybe someday I will quote them. Unfortunately, as with Islam, people tend to get sidetracked with less important issues and start to forget the most important. It is not what or how you do things, but rather your relationship with God Almighty that counts. Anything else is but quidelines for this purpose.
Re: A question
The best thing I found in QURAN Guess what? you all know it "Any one who believes in GOD almighty and is afraid of GOD should not worry at all"
What was the purpose of all the 124,000 prophets ?? to make us believe that there is GOD and It is JUST one. So ----I believe in GOD ZILLION % and I am afraid of GOD ; so I think many many times before I act. My ZAMIER my companion! this is I love to have with me all the time. I keep on thanking to GOD for all the NAAMATS he gave me and the best one ZAMIEER; that keeps me away from all sins, even lies; which most of the people think as an small act that is MASLEHAT MEIN you can lie.
Re: A question
"Islam believes the Quran to be perfect. Perfect means it does not require additional information in order to understand." as written by The old man.....
I have some knowledge about christianity and learni via this thread myself. But let me clear something here about Islam. Quran gives accurate information and message. perfectness is not equal to complete. Now how can this be true that a book will not need further explanation!
Quran does say that muslims, christians, jews and 'Saibeen' shall go to heaven IF they believe in God. Saibeen are those who took some good from different religeons and practiced those. (Read Al'Baqr I think..correct me if not)
'Shirk' is probably the most disliked sin considered in Islam and maybe the important difference from other religeons. There are many similarities in Islam and other religeons also. I think present day Judaism is somewhat more closer to Islam based on its non-shirk ideology.
Prayers, fasting, modesty are also part of all other religeons. Its only in the early to mid part of last century that we started seeing less and less clothes. Nuns wear sort of 'burqa' which has been given negative connotations these days. (Not all burqa have hidden face in Islamic places either. We know that its not allowed to cover the face during 'Haj' performance)
By the way, every human is pure and without sin in Islamic view which makes the most sense. Do we think that a newborn is sinner and if baby dies it goes to hell? Off course there will be an explanation from christianity for this. In Islam human being is not sinful until the person knowingly does bad deeds and those who are unable to make distinction between wrong and right are considered absolutely pure.
'Its like you are guilty until proven otherwise' OR 'you are innocent until proven otherwise'
Do we see the difference in above statements?
1,24000 is not a definite number. Humankind had many prophets or like prophets though who taught great things.
My comments are not to hurt anyone's feelings. We just have continue to be polite and instrumental in our discussion.
Re: A question
Quran Along with hadeez are perfect. Quran tells us what to do and hadeez tells us how to do. As quran says again and again about Namaz,Roza, Hajj, Zakat. But you can never find anything saying that this is how you pray, this is how you pay zakat. But Hadeez tells us the exact things how to perform each and everything that is near to Allah. As for other religions they may be originated from a prophet of God . But those prophets were only sent to one nation in specific region for that specific time. But Hazrat Mohammad (PBUH) is sent to all the humanity. And it is our duty to convey his messge to all Mankind. So as for other religions they have some points just like islam but they are either going diverging or converging to unfathomable points and are deviated from the right path. Islam is the last revolution and all the other religions should follow the last revolution.
Re: A question
If humans are born sinless, two questions arrise:
Why don’t they remain without sin, or other way put, why do they start to sin?
Is it therefor possible for a human to life without sin, and who has done this?
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Would you say that the “hadeez” is perfect?
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Satan tempts them…
All the Prophets…
Apart from them, a child who dies without having the conscious ability to differentiate between bad and good and some other people mentioned in the Quran like the People of Kahf…
Wallh-o-Alam if they sinned or not, but we are forbidden to talk about them…
(People of Kahf were some people in the cave, 3, maybe 5 and their dog, whom Allah :swt: put to sleep…They are still sleeping and the angels take care of their needs…)
Wallah-o-Alam
Re: A question
Its a great question and Ilove to answer.
We are not talking of actions here. There is big difference in actions not attached to sin category or actions attached to sin category.
For example if a child throws a stone at a person or a window, without knowing the consequences or being able to differentiate, we do not consider the child sinful. (We do teach the child right thing) Now sin means that the action was done with knowledge that the action was wrong and should not be done and the person’s mind is capable either to seek the knowledge or has means for it.
So, if an adult or otherwise sane person does harm to someone or to a property knowingly, then that action is called a sinful act.
Islam does not pass judgement on anyone without a fair trial. Nor does it condemn humankind like in christianity what exists today.
Again what I mean is We are not bad intrinsically. We have both good and bad qualities.
Other question, why man does sin is not really a fair question. A man does good or bad both and that’s distinuish the mankind from others. We should cut a little slack here and give mankind a little respect. Man is born free with all the desires INCLUDING the desire to do good seek God. (We all know that for thousands of years, with or without man on this earth worshipped anything that moves to something not even seen)
So in essence saying that we are sinful intrinsically not justified. We know that people do good deeds with or without related to any particular religeon.
What Islam says that it still acknowledges the good deeds whoever does it and will be rewarded.
For some reason I fail to understand why I should be called a sinful while I was not even born or was not even old enough to know what’s wrong or right. I just cannot swallow that.
Please refer to my previous post for example or guilty or not guilty.
The beauty of Islam is in its fairness to all. We will be judged by our sincere intentions not by deeds only.
Other question dealing with if it is possible to be sinless?
Yes for those who have no idea what they were doing at the time by virtue of their inability to comprehend or inability to get the knowledge or whatever ther may be the circumstances. All others will time after time commit sin (little or big) as they have both good and bad qualties and will be rewarded of their good deeds and will be punished unless they repent and ask forgiveness from God almighty himself. (They can be forgiven at God almighty’s discretion only)
Coming from another angle, the reason we do sin is because we are sent to this world which has both good and bad to offer but sinful acts in some ways are made attractive. (I think I don’t need to list attractive sinful acts here) This is a test according to Islam. Sounds unfair, right? Well we have TV, Friends, Movies, etc. to distract kids but we still tell them shut the TV off,hang up the phone etc. and prepare for your exams so you can pass…now that’s not unfair at all.
So, if someone abstains fron bad/evil deeds knowingly, then that person is given promise for a good life hereafter. Somehow this person was able to overcome sinful urges by opposite good forces.
Islam says that one can do as many sins as they commmit and if each time after commiting sin the person truely asks forgiveness and still commits the sin and again truely sincerely asks forgiveness, God almighty will forgive.
No one can reassure salvation but God himself though as I understand by Islamic view. Prophets can only tell what is right and what is wrong.
Once Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) was sad that he thought his message was not going across some people and I think it is said in Quraan that you do not have to worry, your job is to deliver the message and that’s all. Submission or “accptance” to God cannot be “delivered”.
I am sorry its a long answer but I think you know that we cannot resolve hundreds of years of questions in a short time…
These are issues on which books are written, discussions have been made and wars have been fought.
P.S. I am not here to preach Islam, I am clarifying some issues based on my limited knowledge in general.
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What probably was meant there the combination of Hadeez and Quran being perfect.
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(We all know that for thousands of years, with or without man on this earth worshipped anything that moves to something not even seen)
Correction.. ......with or without a prophet.....man on this earth worshiped....
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"Do we think that a newborn is sinner and if baby dies it goes to hell? Off course there will be an explanation from christianity for this."
............BTW what does christianity says about newborn who dies quickly?
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Even Moses committed sins. He killed the Egyptian and was even refused entry into Canaan. Wasn’t he a “prophet” too according to Islam?