A question for my Shia-Muslim brothers and sisters.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
Gandalf,

no one is condoning or declaring halaal the green card marriages.

i have yet to establish from the arguments the basic difference between a muta and 'nikah'.

Is it that mutah is for a prescribed period and nikah for period unknown?

So if a person knows he's gonna divorce someone one month or week later but marries them nevertheless, should they use mutah instead to be absolved of any sin?
[/QUOTE]

Yes, because this person will have to tell the other person of his intention.

At that point, the person who is expecting a long term commitment will naturally disagree to the marriage, whether niqah or mutah.

To perform niqah by hiding yr true intention is a sin. If both parties agree to a short term contract, then it is simpler to do mutah since the requirements are not as involved as a niqah.

In mutah there are no witnesses, and even a nikah is not required, is that correct? This was my understanding.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Gandalf: *
Could your frustation be that you cannot find a woman, even for mutah ? Or may be they want $1000 from you instead of $100 ?
[/QUOTE]

Lets keep cheap personal shots out of the discussion. You know didly do about me. Keep it that way.

I am still waiting for pagluu to explain why he concludes "that Muta is not all about physical stuff". On the face of it, it seems custom-built for physical gratification for an agreed amount of money. "Travellers away from home"... what are they gonna use it for. Emotional support?

Dum dum dum dum ...... Nah, still think it comes down to a cheap shag.

Seriously, whatever way you look at it, it's wrong and I think that deep deep down you guys know it's wrong, both morally and religiously.

whatever girl....abu bakr and co were disobeying Prophet pbuh in their time..you can do it now...what else do you find morally wrong..lets hear it

Sobi... when it comes down to what's "right" and what's "wrong", how come prostitution is clearly wrong but homosexuality is a mebbe? Morally and religiously, one can say that deep down inside, homosexuality being wrong is true as well.

Sheraz... explain to me whether mutah needs witnesses or not pls., and whether there is a nikah for mutah or not.

Sheraz, hypocrisy.

Ana, are you likening Homosexuality to Prostitution? WTF! Homosexuality is innate - sexuality is something that the individual has no control over. Prostitution on the other hand is something the individual has full control over. I really don't see the point you're trying to make by bringing homosexuality into this ...

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadi Sobi: *
Dum dum dum dum ...... Nah, still think it comes down to a cheap shag.

Seriously, whatever way you look at it, it's wrong and I think that deep deep down you guys know it's wrong, both morally and religiously.
[/QUOTE]

Why don't you just say that the prophet (pbuh) of Allah (swt) was wrong ?

Please say that the prophet (pbuh) of Allah (swt) promoted shagging.

Why do u care about what us mere mortals think ?

No. Personally speaking, I believe that you (and other Shia Muslims) have * misinterpreted * what was originally said by our prophet. I believe that the prophet only allowed Mutah in extreme circumstances (e.g. for the spreading of seeds during times of conflict). Certain (dare I say, Shia) individuals have twisted this to meet their own sexual needs (or wants).

Now that I have answered your question (from a personal perspective), will you be kind enough to answer Faisal's question (again, from a personal perspective):

  • Lets say a boy and a girl wanna "test drive" how it feels to live together without a nikkah. So they do a "muttah" for one month for a specified sum of money. They live together, have sex (protected, ofcourse!). After one month, they break off. They get sawaab for the one month they lived together.

You are saying this is perfectly fine? Just say yes or no, and lets wrap up this discussion.

*

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadi Sobi: *
No. Personally speaking, I believe that you (and other Shia Muslims) have * misinterpreted * what was originally said by our prophet. I believe that the prophet only allowed Mutah in extreme circumstances (e.g. for the spreading of seeds during times of conflict). Certain (dare I say, Shia) individuals have twisted this to meet their own sexual needs (or wants).
[/quote]

and I think the prophet never said such a thing.. people just forged this out of nowhere and attributed it to the prophet.. it was a common practice in later years of Islam.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sadi Sobi: *
No. Personally speaking, I believe that you (and other Shia Muslims) have * misinterpreted * what was originally said by our prophet.

  • [/QUOTE]

Sahih Muslim:

Book 008, Number 3246:

Jabir b. 'Abdullah and Salama b. al-Akwa' said: There came to us the proclaimer of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) has granted you permission to benefit yourselves, i. e. to contract temporary marriage with women.

Book 008, Number 3247:

Salama b. al. Akwa' and Jabir b. Abdullah reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) came to us and permitted us to contract temporary marriage.

Umar bin Khattab banned this sunnat of the prophet (pbuh):

Book 007, Number 2801:

...... When 'Umar was Installed as Caliph, he said: Verily Allah made permissible for His Messenger (may peace be upon him) whatever He liked and as Re liked. And (every command) of the Holy Qur'an has been revealed for every occasion. So accomplish Hajj and Umra for Allah as Allah has commanded you; and confirm by (proper conditions) the marriage of those women (with whom you have performed Mut'a). **And any person would come to me with a marriage of appointed duration (Mut'a), I would stone him (to death). **Qatada narrated this hadith with the same chain of transmitters saying: (That 'Umar also said): Separate your Hajj from 'Umra, for that is the most complete Hajj, and complete your Umra.

Sahih Muslim;

Book 008, Number 3243:

Abdullah (b. Mas'ud) reported: We were on an expedition with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and we had no women with us. We said: Should we not have ourselves castrated? He (the Holy Prophet) forbade us to do so He then granted us permission that we should contract temporary marriage for a stipulated period giving her a garment, and 'Abdullah then recited this verse: 'Those who believe do not make unlawful the good things which Allah has made lawful for you, and do not transgress. Allah does not like trangressers" (al-Qur'an, v. 87).

Now, do you want to obey the Allah (swt) and his holy prophet (pbuh) or Umar bin Khattab ?

Sahih Muslim;

Book 008, Number 3250:

Abu Nadra reported: While I was in the company of Jabir b. Abdullah, a person came to him and said that Ibn 'Abbas and Ibn Zubair differed on the two types of Mut'as (Tamattu' of Hajj 1846 and Tamattu' with women), whereupon Jabir said: We used to do these two during the lifetime of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). Umar then forbade us to do them, and so we did not revert to them.

I find it extremely interesting that the Prophet of Allah was so careless in propagating his own rulings that he used to actually confide unto ones and twos and then sit quietly and assume that his message would spread amongst people by chain of narrations :rolleyes:

to me and you if you brought in a little bit of logic.. wouldn’t it be prudent to announce such rulings in a crowd or a gathering.. maybe Jumma sermons so hundreds could gain and then propagate the message??

why is the communication of all these narrations so dubious in nature???

every really pondered that they could just be outright fabrications in the name of the prophet??

Assalam Alaykum,

I’ve been reading this thread for a few days and didn’t want to respond because there’s usually no point, but here I go anyways.

Dear sis Sobi, you say you want to know the truth about mutah, however when the brothers presented you with the facts you refuse to listen to them or even understand them. Just because “certain shia individuals” have twisted mutah around doesn’t mean that it is an incorrect form of practise.

As for brother Faisal’s question regarding the boy and the girl going for a “test drive” if they have followed all the rules to mutah then YES what they have done is acceptable. However, just because someone is abusing something that is there for their own benefit, does not mean that it should be disregarded. Allah (swt) has given us many beautiful things and unfortunately it is human nature to misuse and abuse things.

In your original question you mentioned something regarding the amount of mutahs a woman does then a certain percentage of her body goes to heaven, that is incorrect information that you have received. A person does not go to heaven just for doing mutah, just as a person does not go to heaven just for doing nikah. It is your deeds that lead you there.

Finally, I really don’t understand why the topic of mutah is so fascinating to so many sunnis especially when sunni’s in Saudi Arabia and Egypt practise a form of temporary marriage themselves. Have any of you ever heard of Misyar Marriage? Probably not. You can ask sunni scholars about it or read some of these websites, but they don’t contain a lot of information about it:
http://i-cias.com/e.o/misyar.htm
http://saudhouse.virtualave.net/article42.html

Wa Salam,
Anila

[quote]
Sobi said: Dum dum dum dum ...... Nah, still think it comes down to a cheap shag.

Seriously, whatever way you look at it, it's wrong and I think that deep deep down you guys know it's wrong, both morally and religiously.

[/quote]

Sobi, my point was your selective choosing of what is right and wrong (see above referenced post). You say homosexuality is innate, yet the Qur'an explicitly forbids it as a sin. Refer to the verses that deal with Lot.

However, mutah is nowhere expounded in the Qur'an, the Holy Book of Guidance to all muslims. It is merely dealt with in Hadith, and later conjecture.

So, my point is, when something expressly stated in the Qur'an can be overlooked by our modern muslims, and marginalized as "innate", why are we even debating the merits or demerits if something that could or could not be in the Prophet SAW Sunnah? Is Sunnah greater than Qur'an?

Mathematical equation, 2 > 1 is a logical statement. If Qur'an is 2, and Sunnah is 1, what is more important?

Therefore, I suggest that rather than pinpointing our fellow muslims who go by the title "shia" or "sunni", we first practice to the letter and debate upon the validity of what is **GOD's **word, before bringing in Abu Hanifa, Sahih Bukhari, Sufi XYZ and the numerous thousand or so odd imams.

This may all be off topic, but I seriously don't enjoy faulting minor intricacies here and there when more universally glaring issues are trifled with by our ummah. The Qur'an may not be a human psychology or social welfare book, but if we claim to be Muslims, we ought to do it the justice of believing in it first, before going on to bigger and better things.


[7:80-81]

Lot said to his people, "You commit such an abomination; no one
in the world has done it before! "You practice sex with the men,
instead of the women. Indeed, you are a transgressing people."

[26:165-166]

"Do you have sex with the males, of all the people? "You forsake
the wives that your Lord has created for you! Indeed, you are
transgressing people."

anila and ali stop worrying...when Prophet wanted a pen and paper to write His last will...Umar said Prophet pbuh is not in his senses...astaghfirullah..
Prophet pbuh who said go to china if you have to get education was illetrate to these ignorant folks..so forget about them

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Ana: *

However, mutah is nowhere expounded in the Qur'an, the Holy Book of Guidance to all muslims.

[/QUOTE]

Mutah is permitted in the quran according to the verse:

"Lawful for you is what is beyond all that, that you may seek, using your wealth, in wedlock and not in license. So those of them whom you enjoy, give them their appointed wages; it is no fault in you in mutually agreeing after fulfillment (of the wage). God is All-Knowing, All-Wise" (4:24).

All Shia scholars and many Sunni scholars hold that this verse - especially the words: "Such woman as you enjoy (Istamta'tum)" - refers to the permissibility of Mut'a.

Expound - "give a detailed statement of; explain in detail". I am aware of the verse you have provided, and also that it has interpretations varying from "women you enjoy" to "women that your right hand possesses", all of which are accepted conditionally by both sets of scholars.

However, the verse dealing with homosexuality leaves no room *for interpretation since it is already *very clear. Thus, the difference.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Sheraz CT: *
anila and ali stop worrying...when Prophet wanted a pen and paper to write His last will...Umar said Prophet pbuh is not in his senses...astaghfirullah..
[/QUOTE]

yep.. astaghfirullah that later generations would concoct such rubbish about pious muslims close to the prophet..