For those whom are atheists and believe that the Quran (as well as all other ‘holy books’) are the work of man:
Why do you suppose one would do this? If it was simply written by a scholar long ago, then how is it that religions can have such a widespread affect (even today)?
**If you are planning on answering in a tone showing your intolerance towards people with a faith, then please don’t answer at all. I am curious about this, therefore I have asked questions. I am not up for starting an argument (or engaging in one, for that matter). You may believe in whatever you choose, and the same goes for everyone else. Let us praise this right by being respectful to one another.
Please just address the questions I have asked; nothing more.**
Just because religion has a widespread effect does not mean that religious books are divinely revealed. The Bible is read and believed by many more people than Muslims or just as many people as Muslims (there are at least 1 billion Christians). So according to your argument, simply because the Bible has such a “widespread affect” even today, it follows that it is divinely revealed. The conclusion that follows from your argument is that both the Quran and the Bible are divinely revealed, but this is contradictory, for in one Book God reproduces and in the other he doesn’t. Now I know what your response is going to be: that the Bible is corrupted. But that’s beside the point. What matters is the widespread effect that the Christian Bible has on the more than a billion Christians throughout the world.
The way you have worded your original post, it precludes non-atheists from providing any response, opinion or rationale for your question.
Which is unfortunate, because while there may not be many atheists on this forum, there will be plenty of people who may have an informed (or not-so-informed) opinion on this topic to sustain a moderately informative and interesting discussion.
The question is for atheists who believe that these holy scriptures are the work of a man.
If there are any non-atheists that have reasoning as to why atheists believe a human being would write these holy books (for one reason or another), then they may answer as well.
2.religion is a part of our societal organisation. They are justifications to hard rules that people have to follow in order to make coherent societies. These united nations are more easily ruled and oppressed by powerfull leaders. The main aim being obviously concentration of powers to gain wealth! or the reverse:D .
I guess it is the reason why islam being the latest one is also the more achieved, as being designed to fit to a modern world than previous ones…more modern meaning more strict, more concentrated…so even more oppressive for ordinary poor subjet of the califat.
In a world where human is lost far away from its root (that lie in nature) God is a refugee, religion is a frame organising life and setting rules to avoid despair and anarchy
One would only do that to brings harmony, justice, peace and the sense of security in a particular society. If we look at the history of humans, over a long period of time, he has used the thunder, the clouds, the eclipse and several natural disasters to deter people from doing what was not creating peace or creating injustice. Now one can say that people created the concept of God in the same manner. As human beings developed intellectually the concept of God became more refined.
One also has to understand that that the whole concept of god also stems from the fact that humans are* still unable to understand few very basic things about there creation, like how we came into being and where we are going.
So, now, the concept of god went a step ahead, by answering these basic questions to an extent, it not only created harmony within the human being but it also went ahead to achieve that harmony around human beings. A much difficult task, but the concept of god did provide, in different times different sets of external mechanisms to achieve that goal of peace and harmony.
So I would say that in every time period since this world has been created and since the Humans have achieved intellect there has been people who had been against the concept of god and the people who believed that there is a God. The wide spread affect of not believing in the concept of God has always been equal to the concept of believing in God.
I believe that the nature of human beings and its way of thinking did not change in the last 1400 or 2000 or 5000 years, rather their question has taken a different turn. On one hand its about the concept of god and on the other hand it has questions about the changes in the external mechanism of "concept of God" , which changed by time. Creating another heated "debate" among the holders-of-the-concept-of-God.
well if someone believes that Muhammad did make up the Qu’ran himself, then the reason behind would have been power, I mean to get some power and influence over his contemporians…that’s what he got, na?
Parissenoor, I dont agree with this, there has been certain standards in every time by which one can assess how power is defined and possessed. Based on that, this cannot be said about Muhammad or any other "messenger" before him, and I am saying that from a non religious point of way.
If you look at the history of the kings and queens of that era, and the transaction of wealth that use to go through Makkah, you would realize that he possessed non of that even after having absolute control over the western Arabia and the major trade routes which went from Yemen to Syria. Now one can say that he went beyond wealth, but it can hardly be substantiate through history. A lot of people say that he went for women, but one has to understand the local traditions of that time, I think most of the times the women argument stems from not knowing the history. From age 25 to 52 or 53 he remained married to a single women, (he started preaching Islam at age 40) once in Madinah, he married to a 65-year-old widow as his second wife, after that he had many wives all of them were widowers except one. Going back to the history that was not the normal procedure at that time.
Now I would like to know if there are any other standards by which one can define power, in local terms prevalent at that time.
IF Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) had simply made up the Quran (A.), then how could he be so sure that he would gain power simply through writing a set of rules?
MiniMe - The Prophet (pbuh) had a reason for having each of his wives. Take Hazrat Aisha (r) for example: He married her at such a young age because she was able to narrate his life. Numerous Hadith were authenticated by her because she spent so much time with the Prophet (pbuh).
To the actual question of the post, I think true aehtist or true aethism does not exist so much that it needs so much attention.
Like gays, lesbians, women lib organizarions or women freedom seekers this is another very hyped up topic people waste time on. If the thread is started tolearn about aethists or their views than very few people would actually relate to this kind of thinking.
Now, for the sdake of discussing the 'huge' problem, I can say that many aethists are due to many religious people not behaving like human being in first place. They think the whole purpose of the religion is to gain power, or exploit or harm others. Unfortunately it is true in minority of cases but it does affect majority since majority of human being still love peace and have nothing to do with anarchy in the name of religion.
We live in strange times. 1400 years ago, the world was a harsh place, and there was no misconception of the brutal world that was around you ( i expect ).i have no doubt everyone believed in God because life was hard and kindness & love, and faith were something we all shared . I live in England, where society talks about ideals all of the time, but the world we live in is much the same, the war, the struggle for power, the propaganda putting images of death and destruction by our hands into our livig room. I think that people lose faith more easily now, because the struggle to get through this life has become easier for us on a basic level, but on our technology we see the world as it truly is elswhere.. still millions of people dying of starvation, war. rape & murder on our doorstep is shocking, but we are detached from it. With no strong guidance in the teachings of the quran, can you see how people must lose faith before the idea of it is even instilled in them. God knows what is in all of us. I agree completely deedawar, again! We all have a muslim inside us trying to get out! Many people believe in a god but dont want to join catholicism for example, because an average of 1-2 preists a year gets disrobed for disrobing young children! "How can there be a god!" you hear them shout.
So in reference to the question. In a society as we live in, its** easier** to say the quran must be written by a man, must have been concieved by men, because no- one tells you any different, There is little evidence before or against, and the comfort we live in while we go to war, and are plagued by natural disasters all over the world, why would we believe god would let this happen. So little room or time for religious education in a society where survival of the fittest has turned into survival of the most politically motivated and intelligent.
knowledge of science and the universe is becoming more and more abundant, and is much easier to believe. But when you get to the big questions, you find God. Which is where I got to about a year ago.
This probably doesnt answer your question phatima, i'm not an aetheist, but i was.... this is an explanation of the world through an aetheists eyes....?
Well, alia! Your post has one thing very obvious....frustration.
Other coment about quran and its possible author being a human being is too specific of a topic to discuss here in this thread. I see your point and its worth discussin elsewhere but later.
My comments wre in general regarding why anyone would say he/she is an aethist and true aethist may not exist s commonly than few people would want us to believe.
Death/destruction and all other evil acts fortunately are not so common than we think. But if we read newspaper, watch TV or searc internet than yes off course it seems we human are brutal creation of God.... Its just that bad things are brought much more than good things as we tend to pay atention to it more often and business of so called news thrives on this mentality.
there are still many more people on this earth who are very satisfied of any religion they follow and are living peacefully among themsleves or among others with a different religion.
*Even when world wars were fought, majority were peaceful!!! *
Its the minority of the minority who makes silent majority gives bad name.
In my opinion,
Atheism is a religion in itself in which few people try to deny the existence of any other religions!
This is crazy I have tried to post three times but It loggs me out everytime. I don't know why so I am not gonna bother typing everything all over. But y is it keep on logging me out.......
