Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
You are absolutely right. Quran says that Holy Prophet (saw) is the Prophet of prophets. For ALL people.
But if you are saying that you reject Hadith, then please bring the verse of Holy Quran saying there will be no prophets in the Ummah.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
^ so u think that ghumad ahmed was a persian????
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
I think he was. But your knowledge of history and geography and linguistics seems to be limited by your narowmindedness.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
well looking at the state of this world today and the Jamaat's view of the 'majority' of Muslims, don't u think we'd have had like a hundred prophets by now.. cuz everywhere i look, there's a need for another reformer.. yet.. none is in sight!
Kinda puts a dent in the theory that there will be future prophets and yet we haven't seen one post Ghulam Ahmed per the Jamaat-e-Ahmediyya pov.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
^ to day its not clear whether ghulam ahmed was a prophet, or a messiah, or a mujaddid, or (as he claimed) re-incarnation of Isa (ra) and other bigger claims that he made....
for 'majority', well we all know what they think of him, and some ppl just dont like to hear it again....
just what i said before, he is in the same line of prophets as musailma, taleha, etc....
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
What the world is going through is degeneration leading to a revolution which will change the world for the better. With the advent of prophets, the revolution begans and Allah causes changes to provide the rejectors with opportunities to accept the truth. Muslim world can see with open eyes that violence, hatred etc is going to destroy them. They have a choice to renounce the violence and other logic-less beliefs and embrace the true teachings of islam. It is upto the world to save itself. Jamaat e Ahmadiyya can only show them the way.
The situation of the world is not as if it needs prophets. The situation is so because a prophet has come and people have rejected him.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
yep, the way staright to jahannum…
cuz only Islam leads away from it, and ahmediyyat is not Islam…
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
PA Bhaijaan,
A little history recap that might help explain the topic a bit more.
Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) received the revelations about prophet hood in 1880, he published some of those revelations in his book Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya, which by the way was a book that was held very high by all his opponents because it’s is one of a kind book defending Islam regarding all the different allegations against it from all the different religions. At that time, those who considered Mirza Sahib to be a prophet or mujadid or just revered him for his spiritual life, were called “Qadiyani” by the other Muslims, even though Mirza Sahib or his followers never did use the name for his followers. So even if a jama’at was not created those who followed him were already considered a sect. It’s the same why people consider Ahle-Quran a sect.
Secondly, up till 1889, numerous people asked Mirza Sahib to take their bait on his hands which indirectly meant a distinction between those who have taken his bait and those who haven’t i.e creation of a community. He denied everyone citing that God has not instructed him to take any baits. Some people traveled 100s of miles to get to the remote Qadian hoping that if he didn’t accept their bait through the letters they wrote, he might change his mind if he sees them in person. Mirza Sahib (as) didn’t accept any baits. Then in 1889, Allah revealed to him: “When thou hast determined, put thine trust in Allah. And build the Ark under Our eyes, as commanded by our revelation. Verily, those who swear allegiance to thee indeed swear allegiance to Allah. The hand of Allah is over their hand.” At which he published that revelation along with the invitation for Bait and the establishment of Ahmadiyya jamat.
So the point is that the true prophets of Allah do things because Allah told them to, not because they think it’s a great idea. In such a case you need to take up the issue with God as to why he asked him to create a jamat, or deny that he never received that revelation.
As far as more prophets are concerned, Ahmadiyya believe as I understand it, is that in theory prophet hood is a blessing of Allah and if any Ummah deserves these blessing, it’s the Ummah of AnHazoor (saw). And according to Quran the door to prophet hood is open. But as per the tradition usually previous prophets prophesize of the ones to come and in the triditions of the Holy Prophet, there is only one mentioned. Now there are some revelations of Mirza Sahib that can be taken as a prophecy of another prophet to come but not all Ahmadi scholars agree on it and hold a different interpretation.
Lastly, the idea that Mirza Sahib created yet another sect, or divided Islam into another group holds now when Ahmadis are just another group. Give it a century and you might find that Ahmadiyyat and Islam for the greater world will be synonymous while Ahle-Hadiths, Twelvers, Ismaili etc might be considered branches. It’s all relative. In the same manner I have heard arguments by atheists that religion and prophets who preach that teaching divide humanity into those who believe and those who disbelieve thus creating enmity among brothers.
Anyway, as per another writing of Mirza Sahib (as) it took three centuries of the follower of the first Messiah to dominate those who apposed them, it cannot take the followers of Messiah of Hazrat Muhammad (saw) anymore. Even though, these promises are based on the dedication of the followers as was evident in the case of Hazrat Musa (as) and the Promised Land.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
The Prophet SAW was the seal of prophethood. Seal as in no more after him!!!!!
Nuff said!!
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
Peace Destino
Destino: a. We have the prophecies of a Promised Hakam and Adal Messiah who will be the Imam of Muslims.
Hareem01: If this is reference to the return of Isa (AS) then there is an equivalent interpretation which goes against the Ahmadiyya claim.
Destino: b. We have the promise of Quran that Islam will prevail. This is along with the prophecy that Gog and Magog will appear to destroy the civilization.
Hareem01: The consensus of the Ulema is exactly in accordance to what you write about Islam prevailing ... but according to references of wars this realisation will take place radically through wars and battles not progressively.
Destino: c. We have the Ahadith clearly stating the state of muslims in latter days, the solution which is in the form of a person who will lead them and also will receive revelation.
Hareem01: How about the ahadith which refer to the Muslims being stormed by the disbelievers near the Day of Judgement? This pitched against the ahadith of the "person who will lead" indicates radical change not progressive and at the same time all the hadith indicate this will take place during a life time not several life times. Note: references to Isa (AS) are different and seperate from the Mahdi ... who will be the leader. Isa (AS) will be a mutaqi upon his return i.e. he will not lead prayers like an Imam.
Destino: d. Revelation can be of different types, but if a person receives revelations to ask for allegiance of the people (to be their imam) than it cant be anyone else but a Nabi.
Hareem01: Why is this? Where did you get this from? No nabi has ever called himself an Imam.
Destino: e. Not all Nabis bring new laws.
Hareem01: I didn't say they did ... but the laws Mirza Ghulam Ahmad brought were strange to Islamic traditions.
Destino: f. Islam is a progressive religion. Quran was revealed for mankind until the end of times. Hence its inerpretations can be discovered or revealed to the chosen servants of Allah (swt) in time.
Hareem01: The Qur'an being for all times an it's miracle of progressive discovery does not indicate that Islam is progressive ... The accounts which refer to the second coming of Christ (AS) do not indicate a progressive nature if they do I would like you to show me one.
Destino: g. Islam once implemented during the time of Holy Prophet (saw), allowed slavery, but it was the progression of islam which abolished slavery forever.
Hareem01: You are mixing fiqh issues with the established laws that do not change. In one case you talk about the gradual abolishing of slavery which is a cultural change, and on the other you talk of a single event of Masih return and stretch that over centuries, it is a different thing. Besides, slavery is abolished but not forbidden.
Destino: h. The language of post-industrialization era in not one, but two or three or even four for a civilization. Arabs only knew Arabic. Whereas indian muslims knew three languages. sanskrit and English excluding.
Hareem01: Yet it was Muhammad (SAW) who is the prophet for all nations, not anyone else. Where did you get this rationalisation from anyway? Documented and comprehensively understood ahadith are the benchmark for evidence.
Destino: i. Jesus (as) was not a unique case of survival. Jonah (Yunus) as survived in the belly of a fish. Now that is something implausible even in this day and age.
The foot engraving in Srinagar shows the scars of a crucified person. We can't declare it a fabrication by any standards.
Hareem01: No he was not a unique case ... but he didn't survive anything according to the Qur'an he was - "altogether gathered" and taken up. The consensus of the scholars say this is "in person" and "alive". Otherwise the ayat would not make sense as they exist as a refutation against the Jewish claim that they killed him.
Destino: j. The title of Khatamun Nabiyyeen gives all aurhtority and supremecy to Holy Prophet (saw). It will be really strange if there was none among his spiritual progeny to attain Divine communication unless it is believed that Holy Prophet (saw) closed the door of Wahi and Ilhaam. Which will be even a more strange thing to believe.
Hareem01: Why would it be strange? Is the Qur'an not divine communication ... you say yourself that the Qur'an is understood progressively and we know that Allah has protected it from distortion. There is no need for another prophet ... who were sent to remind mankind about the truth. We have the truth ... Spiritual guides and mujjaddid I can believe but no prophet. According to traditions the lie of the mahdi is the one who claims to be so. The Mahdi according to ahadith will be discovered in Makkah hanging to the door of the Kaabah in a seize, he will be the best amongst them and he will only accept leadership upon being forced. His name will be Muhammad ibn Abdullah and his kunya will be Abu Abdullah. None of these match the life of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad ....
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
Thanks ahmadjee..
so the answers as i understand are..
Initially he didn't create a division, it was automatically created and then per Ahmadiyya belief, he was ordained by Allah to do it.
Not to clear what the answer is .. perhaps because you introduced the fallacies of tradition overriding what's in the Qur'an.. which is pretty clear that the door to prophethood is open..
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
The situation before Ghulam Ahmed showed up was better/worse than these days?
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
My understanding of "need of Prophet" is not necessarily because you are "chosen one" but because you have astrayed so far from truth, no? So why is this "blessing" limited for "Umma of AnHazoor saw"?
[quote]
Now there are some revelations of Mirza Sahib that can be taken as a prophecy of another prophet to come but not all Ahmadi scholars agree on it and hold a different interpretation.
[/quote]
lo, I thought due to lack of proper documentation of understanding of ahadith post-Prophet PBUH time we had so many interpretations.... even now we have "multiple" interpretations in Ahmediyya Jamat? :D
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
PA Bhaijaan,
On # 2, maybe I didn’t understand the question well. I am confused as to how the prophet hood being open or close is related to division in the religion? Every new prophet that came regardless of if he brought new commandments or not had his own flock that differentiated his followers from those who didn’t believe in him. That is true for the prophets who carried out the commandments of Hazrat Musa (as) and other prophets like Hazrat Noah (as).
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
Captain, any mode of communication, be it audio, visual or text always has room for ambiguity. Have you tried assembling furniture following some instructions? Even though there are pictures and limited outcomes due to finite number of pieces involved, even then the instructions are open to interpretation.
On your second note, the need or prophet is determined by Allah and Allah alone and how the followers or those who disbelieved act has no relation to if the prophet was truthful or not or if a new prophet is needed. For example, there is a huge time gap between Hazrat Isa (as) and AnHazoor (saw), while the history tells us that the people (Jews and others) in general were not any better off before or after Hazrat Isa (as). The pagan governments that finally became Christians didn’t follow anything that Hazrat Isa (as) preached actually did the opposite.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
the context of that hadith revolves around Syedana Salman-e-Farsi:razi:
Rasooulah:saw: said that a man from his (Salman’s:razi: ) country will come who will bring the faith back to people even if had gone to stars.
It has been understood to be the Mujaddid and NOT the prophet and the person was Imam Abu Hanifa:rehm:
For the prophet to come, Prophet:saw: said Laa Nabi Illah Ba’di that is There is no new prophet after him.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
Assalam o Alaikum
Sorry
:topic:
Suppose we muslims agree that new prophets WILL/and CAN come , how does this benefits mirza sahib and his jamaat, still you have to prove that mirza was eligible / Fit for this very important post.
This no one from mirzais can, the qualities of prophethood being lacking in mirza sahib .
For example see here
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=188032
Wasalam
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
All prophets are Imams. Ibraheem (as) prayed to Allah to make his progeny the Imams of the righteous.
As for the prophecy of Imam Mahdi is concerned, you have to seperate true from false in the light of Quran and Hadith. At one hand you believe in literal meanings of the ahadith yet you will find yourself baffled when your literal Mahdi will kill innocent non-muslims and when your literal Jesus will exterminate the specie of swine.
Bao,
Kanjar has to be called a Kanjar. You may call them artists these days but traditionally singing girls and the assorted music professionals were called Kanjars. If use of harsh or realistic language disqualifies someone to be a prophet, then you will have to renounce Jesus and Holy Prophet (saw) too.
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
In the Holy Qur'an chapter 2 ayah 124:
"And when the Lord of the Ibrahim tried him with commands,which he fulfilled.He (Allah)said,verily i am going to make you an imam for mankind (Ibrahim)said' and of my offspring.'(Allah)said ,my covenant includes not zalimun(polytheists and wrongdoers)
aya 129:
"Our Lord! send amongst them a messenger of thier own ,who shall recite unto them your verses and instruct them in the Book and al hikmah,and purify them.verily,you are the All mighty,the all wise."
Re: A Question for members of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat
So All prophets are also Imams and also Mahdis.