A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

[Texan_Dude]

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

In regards on your post that you called Taraweeh and Matam.. you swet on it so much beating around the bush.. even dragged matam in it to come up with a long post and yet coudln’t come up with a convincing argument.. dude the question was simple… if taraweeh was practiced during the Prophet P.B.U.H. and umar just combined different jamats to one.. why is he calling it a Bidah.. is he trying to mislead others by calling a practice started by Prophet P.B.U.H. a bidah… how hard is it too answer… but oh… someone needs to beat around the bush to come up with excuses… why am I not suprised.. i read in some sunni website where they were claiming debating on the rakat of Taraweeh… and someone mentioned a hadith on 20 some rakats because thats how Umar introduced it.. I’ll try to look for it and send it to you later…

@Ibn Sadique

Narrated 'Urwa: That he was informed by 'Aisha, "Allah’s Apostle went out in the middle of the night and prayed in the mosque and some men prayed behind him. In the morning, the people spoke about it and then a large number of them gathered and prayed behind him (on the second night). In the next morning the people again talked about it and on the third night the mosque was full with a large number of people. Allah’s Apostle came out and the people prayed behind him. On the fourth night the Mosque was overwhelmed with people and could not accommodate them, but the Prophet came out (only) for the morning prayer. When the morning prayer was finished he recited Tashah-hud and (addressing the people) said, “Amma ba’du, your presence was not hidden from me but I was afraid lest the night prayer (Qiyam) should be enjoined on you and you might not be able to carry it on.” So, Allah’s Apostle died and the situation remained like that (i.e. people prayed individually). " Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 32, Number 229

A couple of things to notice here the hadith talks about the prayer performed in the middle of night… and is referred as night prayer (Namaz -e- Shab) are you sure its referring to taraweeh and not Namaz-e-Tahajud ( Prayer recited at the middle of the night) the reason I am asking is because the context to me seems to fit more of Namaz-e- Tahajud than taraweeh..not to mention taraweeh is not mentioned any where…

@Ibn Sadique

*Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah’s Apostle said, “Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven.” Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah’s Apostle died and the people continued observing that **(i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), *and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar’s Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, “I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, ‘In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)’. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka’b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, ‘What an excellent Bid’a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.’ He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night.” Sahih Bukhari Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227

OK lets read the first path of the hadith… its talking about praying during ramzan.. but no where mentions about taraweeh…secondly it states that it was a prayer performed individually not in congregation.. why did Umar felt a need to start a congregation on a prayer which was being performed individually Islam was perfect in the time of Prophet and in the light of Quran… thirdly.. as you claim that it was a practice of Prophet why did Umar claimed it as an EXCELLENT bidah… when all the did was combined some people praying individually in a congregation.. THAT WAS MY ACTUAL QUESITON TO START WITH

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@Ibn Sadique

If you notice that the first hadith quoted above confirms that Taraweeh prayer to have been prayed by the Prophet (saw) for few days and the Sahabah (raa) prayed behind him. * On the fourth day or so, he prayed it at home out of fear it may become compulsory on them. From this we conclude it was a “Sunnah” performed by the Messenger (saw).

first I won’t drag Hazrat Ali A.S. without any proper references… secondly the first thing doesn’t confirm anything about Taraweeh… it doesn’t mention the name of taraweehl…infact refers it as night prayer… which makes me doubt if its referring to namaz-e-Tahajud…

@Ibn Sadique

To understand what Omar said, we need to understand what Bid’ah means. Bid’ah, is something invented in matters of worship that has no precedence. It does not apply to our case, because the Prayer was conducted by the Messenger (saw) himself.

Not to mentioned the hadith also quotes that Prophet stopped the congregation… for no matter what was the reason Prophet stopped… the fact that Prophet stopped the thing… Umar had no right to start something he stopped… claiming Prophet P.B.U.H. have died and quran itself testified in the life of Prophet… that islam is perfect it doesnot make sense why you want to reinvent stuff… your response is just lame…

I’ll be back with responses to your other queries later…*