A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

[Texan_Dude]

Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah

@gupguppy

this is in fact part of a longer hadith that begins with the words, “May Allah have mercy on Abu Bakr, he married his daughter to me and accompanied me to the land of migration…”… only a shi-ite with a biased, hate-filled agenda would fail to cite the hadith in full… or - and this is the more likely – you probably haven’t even seen, let alone read, many of the reports that you aimlessly cite as evidence… (copying blindly won’t really get you very far mr. “talib-e-ilm”)

in any case, the chain of transmission contains al Mukhtar ibn Nafi about whom al Bukhari said, “Rejected in hadith” and Ibn Hibban said, "He brings rejected reports [supposedly] on the authority of well known narrators (cited in al Manawi’s Fayd al Qadir, #4412)

Well you don’t need to accuse me for anything buddy .. Incase you didn’t notice I said please verify references and let me know of any errors… secondly did you verify the references for yourself… and why was the hadith rejected… is it because it was later fabricated in some of the sources to add Abu Bakr who according to Sahih Bukhai made Prophet P.B.U.H. angry.

@gupguppy

“The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt is that of the boat of Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved and whoever stays away from it is drowned.”
-Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, ii, 343, iii, 150:
-Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, iv, 306;

• al Khatib in Ta’rikh Baghdad, xii, 19;
• al Suyuti in al Durr al Manthur (al-Matba`at al Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1314), under verse 2:58;
• al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, i, 250, vi, 216;
• al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa’id, ix, 167, 168;
• al Muhibb al Tabari in Dhakha’ir al Uqba, 20; al Manawi in Kunuz al?Haqa’iq, 132.

al Dhahabi confirmed the weakness of al Hakim’s chain because of Mufadhal bin Salih who is “rejected in hadith” according to al Bukhari; the various chains recorded by al Tabarani rely on Abdullah ibn Dahir and al Hasan ibn Abi Ja’far both of whom are “abandoned”, or on Abdullah ibn Abd al Qudus who is adjudged weak by numerous hadith scholars, or the chains contain groups of unknown reporters as stated by al Haythami in his Majma al Zawa’id (14,981); al Bazzar’s report from Ibn Zubair contains Ibn Lahiyya, a well-known weak narrator; a similar report from Anas ibn Malik contains Aban ibn Abi Ayash who is accused of fabricating hadith etc. etc.

and why was this hadith rejected… it fits the context of another hadith in Sahih Muslim…
Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: “O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance… The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times).”

Sunni Reference:

• Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.

Lol the hadith fits the context of this hadith in Sahih Muslim…hmm let me guess it because Sunni needs some excuse to justify there man made khaleefas… hmm why didn’t the rule out the hadith above buddy.. hmm u left a foot print… come on buddy get back to business and try to come up with some excuse to rule this out …

@gupguppy

Quote:
Abu Said al Khudri reports: "We sat waiting for the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) when he came out to meet us. The strap of his sandal was broken and he tossed it to Ali. Then he (pbuh&hp) said: “A man amongst you will fight the people over the tawil (interpretation) of the Quran in the same way as I have fought over its tanzil (revelation).” Thereupon Abu Bakr said, ‘Is that I?’ The Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: “No.” Then Umar asked him, ‘Is that I?’ “No.” said the Prophet (pbuh&hp). “It is the mender of the sandal (i.e. Ali).”
Other Sunni References:

• al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 122;
• Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iii, 33, 82;
• Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, i, 67;
• Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iii, 282, iv, 33;
• Ibn Hajar, al Isabah, i, 22, iv, 152;
• Ibn Abd al Barr, al lsti`ab, ii, 423;
• al Haythami, Majma al Zawa’id, v, 186;
• al Muttaqi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 155, 390, 391.

if this is the case… why do you think there wasn’t an overwhelming need to fight the people over the interpretation of the Qur’an during Abu Bakr’s (r) and Umar’s (r) khilafa?

Maula Ali A.S was there to defend islam when needed… thats why Umar had to end u saying had it not been Ali i would have been halak.. I’ll try to get the references on it later…

[QUOTE = Gupguppy]

why then does al Qurtubi (one of your references) cite Ibn Abbas in one report from him that the verse was sent down about Abu Bakr? where’s the unanimity ?

al Tabari (your first reference) said the commentators have differed over the interpretation of this verse…

al Suyuti (another of your references) as well as Ibn Kathir (who you didn’t bother to mention) also said that it could have been revealed about Ubada ibn al Samit…

so where’s the consensus?

next time try reading the books before quoting from them otherwise you’ll just keep putting your foot in your mouth
[/quote]

Dude care to say when did Abu Bakr did Zakat while he was in Rukooh… and was it before or after the ayat was revealed… I have references from Shia books also… but oh well… some one needs excuses… to defend a khaleefa who went as far as making Prophet P.B.U.H. angry… I want the incident when Abu Bakr gave charity while he was bowing down in prayers and was it after or before the verse was revealed.