Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
hmmm whats your point the above hadith. I quoted hadiths on Hazrat Ali A.S. also from your **SAHIH BOOKS **… Arent Ansar the people of Medina who helped Prophet P.B.U.H when he migrated.???.. whereas Abu Bakr who made Prophet P.B.U.H angry based on Sahih hadiths was the one who migrated to Medina… if you are still not convinced of the righteousness of Hazrat Ali A.S. read the following post in one of my replies to Ibn Sadique.. it might help you open your mind up…
***… And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless [33:33]
***and still if you doubt quran read the following verse … which tells you how pure, righteous and truthfull these personalities were
And whoever disputes with thee concerning him after the inspired knowledge which has been given unto thee, tell him, “Come, let us call our sons and your sons; our women and your women; and ourselves and yourselves; then let us pray and invoke Allah’s curse upon those who lie.” (3:61)
O you believe, obey Allah and obey His Messenger and those amongst you who are give supreme authority (by Allah). (4:59)
tell me who are the supreme authority who Allah SWT asks to obey besides Prophet… let me see what you just said
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique
Of course for further details we then refer to the Sunnah and the hadith.
Ok now lets go and read the sunnah of Prophet P.B.U.H.
Someday (after his last pilgrimage) the Messenger of Allah (PBUH&HF) stood to give us a speech beside a pond which is known as Khum (Ghadir Khum) which is located between Mecca and Medina. Then he praised Allah and reminded Him, and then said: “O’ people! Behold! It seems the time approached when I shall be called away (by Allah) and I shall answer that call. Behold! I am leaving for you two precious things. First of them is the book of Allah in which there is light and guidance… The other one is my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. I remind you in the name of Allah about my Ahlul-Bayt. (three times).”
Sunni Reference:
- Sahih Muslim, Chapter of the virtues of the companions, section of the virtues of Ali, 1980 Edition Pub. in Saudi Arabia, Arabic version, v4, p1873, Tradition #36.
hmm lets see did he say any other hadith…
“For whoever I am his Leader (mawla), 'Ali is his Leader (mawla).”
Not to mention Prophet P.B.U.H. made people pay alligance after this hadith… the whole incident can be found in the following website with references.
www.al-islam.org/ghadir
hmm still not convinced… there you go another hope this one would be easy to digest…
“Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me.”
******Sunni Refernces:
- Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297,
- Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356;
- Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360;
- al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199;
- al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339;
- al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171;
- al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401;
- Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;
- Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294;
- al Nasa’i, Khasais, 19, 23;
- as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and Ibn Hajar.
hmm want to read more hadith…
The Holy Prophet (pbuh&hp) said:
“May God’s mercy be upon Ali. My God, keep the Haqq (truth, righteousness, justice) always with Ali.”
Sunni Refernces:
- Sahih Al Tirmidhi, ii, 298:
- al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 119, 124;
- al Khatib in Ta’rikh Baghdad, xiv, 321;
- al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa’id, vii, 134, 235; 243;
- al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, vi, 157.
“The parable of my Ahl Al?bayt is that of the boat of Noah, whoever gets aboard it is saved and whoever stays away from it is drowned.”
-Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, ii, 343, iii, 150:
-Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, iv, 306;
- al Khatib in Ta’rikh Baghdad, xii, 19;
- al Suyuti in al Durr al Manthur (al-Matba`at al Maymaniyyah, Egypt, 1314), under verse 2:58;
- al Muttaqi in Kanz al Ummal, i, 250, vi, 216;
- al Haythami in Majma` al Zawa’id, ix, 167, 168;
- al Muhibb al Tabari in Dhakha’ir al Uqba, 20; al Manawi in Kunuz al?Haqa’iq, 132.
Ok here is another ayat of Quran…
None touches (the depth of meaning of Quran) save the purified ones. (56:79)
Hmmm like you said lets go and read in the light of hadith who knows these depth meanings whom quran refers as purified ones…
Al Nasa’i in Khasa’is, 40, reports this tradition on the authority of Abu Said al Khudri:
Abu Said al Khudri reports: "We sat waiting for the Messenger of Allah (pbuh&hp) when he came out to meet us. The strap of his sandal was broken and he tossed it to Ali. Then he (pbuh&hp) said: “A man amongst you will fight the people over the tawil (interpretation) of the Quran in the same way as I have fought over its tanzil (revelation).” Thereupon Abu Bakr said, ‘Is that I?’ The Prophet (pbuh&hp) said: “No.” Then Umar asked him, ‘Is that I?’ “No.” said the Prophet (pbuh&hp). “It is the mender of the sandal (i.e. Ali).”
Other Sunni References:
- al Hakim in Mustadrak, iii, 122;
- Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iii, 33, 82;
- Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya’, i, 67;
- Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iii, 282, iv, 33;
- Ibn Hajar, al Isabah, i, 22, iv, 152;
- Ibn Abd al Barr, al lsti`ab, ii, 423;
- al Haythami, Majma al Zawa’id, v, 186;
- al Muttaqi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 155, 390, 391.
Certainly your Master is Allah and His Messenger and those who
believe who eshtablish prayer and give charity while they bow.
And who ever takes Allah and His Messenger and those who believe
as a guardian, so surely the party of Allah will be victorious.
(Quran 5:55-56)
It is unanimous that the verse descended about Imam Ali (AS) when he gave
away in charity his ring while he was in a state of kneeling in his prayer.
-Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ahmad Ibn Muhammad al-Tha’labi, under Verse 5:55
-Tafsir al-Kabir, by Ibn Jarir al-Tabari, v6, pp 186,288-289
-Tafsir Jamiul Hukam al-Quran, by Muhammad Ibn Ahmad Qurtubi, v6, p219
- Tafsir al-Khazin, v2, p68
- Tafsir al-Durr al-Manthoor, by al-Suyuti, v2, pp 293-294
- Tafsir al-Kashshaf, by al-Zamakhshari, Egypt 1373, v1, pp 505,649
- Asbab al-Nuzool, by Jalaluddin al-Suyuti, Egypt 1382, v1, p73 on the
authority of Ibn Abbas - Asbab al-Nuzool, by al-Wahidi, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
- Sharh al-Tjrid, by Allama Qushji
- Ahkam al-Quran, al-Jassas, v2, pp 542-543
- Musnad Ahmad Ibn Hanbal, v5, p38
- Kanzul Ummal, by al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, v6, p391, Tradition #5991
- al-Awsat, by Tabarani, narrated from Ammar Yasir
- Ibn Mardawayh, on the authority of Ibn Abbas
… and more.
hmm lets look at one more ayat…
No one knows its interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly ground in knowledge. (3:7)
hmm like you said lets go and look in the light of hadiths…
“I am the city of knowledge and Ali is its gate; whoever intends to enter the city should come to its gate.”
Sunni Refernces:
- Al Hakim in his Mustadrak, iii, 126, 127:
- al Khatib in Tarikh Baghdad, ii, 348, 377; vii, 172; xi, 48, 49;
- al Muhibb al Tabari in al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 193;
- al Muttaqi in Kanz al ummal, vi, 152, 156, 401;
- Ibn Hajar in al Sawa’iq al Muhriqah, 73;
- al Manawi in Kunuz al Haqaiq, 43 and Fayd al Qadir, iii, 46;
- al Haythami, Majma al Zawa’id, ix, 114;
- Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, iv, 22 and Tahdhib al Tahdhib (Hyderabad, 1325), vi, 152;
- as well as al Uqayli, Ibn Adi and al Tabarani.
here is another ayat of Quran…
Whoever opposes the Prophet after the guidance has been made manifest unto him and follows any path other than the path of the true believers, We will turn him towards that unto which he himself has turned, and We will expose him to Hell and a bad journey it will be. (4:115)
hmm like you said lets go and interpret in the light of sunnah…
“Verily, Ali and I are inseparable, and he is the master (wali) of every believer after me.”
Sunni Refernces:
- Al Tirmidhi, in his Sahih, ii, 297,
- Ahmad ibn Hanbal in his Musnad, iv, 437, v, 356;
- Abu Dawud al Tayalisi in his Musnad, iii, 111, xi, 360;
- al Haythami, Majma al Zawaid, ix, 109, 127, 128, 199;
- al Khatib al Baghdadi, Tarikh Baghdad, iv, 339;
- al Muhibb al Tabari, al Riyad al Nadirah, ii, 203, 171;
- al Muttaqi al Hindi, Kanz al Ummal, vi, 154, 155, 396, 401;
- Ibn al Athir in Usd al Ghabah, v, 94;
- Abu Nuaym in Hilyat al Awliya, vi, 294;
- al Nasa’i, Khasais, 19, 23;
- as well as Ibn Abi Shaybah, al Tabari, al Tabarani, al ?Daylami, Ibn Mardawayh, Ibn al Jawzi, al Rafii, and Ibn Hajar.
Hmm certainly Prophet called Hazrat Ali A.S the master of believers… who should fit the better context of the ayat besides master of believers after Prophet…
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibn Sadique
Just to make it clear that Sunnis take the ‘Shia’ Imams (raa) to be people of knowlegde, worthy of respect, beacons of guidance and on the right Aqeedah of the Salaf - They were the teachers of Imams of Fiqh especially Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra).
We believe them to be on the aqeedah of Ahlul Sunnah.
hmm our Imams were the source of knowedge and also the teachers of sunni Imams… and why shouldn’t be… read the following ayat of Quran and you have answered your question yourself (Subhan Allah)
None touches (the depth of meaning of Quran) save the purified ones. (56:79)
No one knows its interpretation except Allah and those who are firmly ground in knowledge. (3:7)
hmm based on the context of the above they sure are the righteous ones… and you yourself admits that they are the people of knowledge.. and still you go to there students to get islam… rather than the teacher itself.. amazing isn’t it… is it because they are shia Imams… now mind if I ask you a question…** Our Imams were the source of knowledge for your so called Imams… tell me who was the teacher of our Imam… makes you wonder doesn’t it… Please tell me… where does there source of knowledge comes from??? (QUESTION) thats why I said earlier we have 12 Imams and teaching of none contradicts the other… whereas you have four Imam’ls and there are some differences in their teachings.**
**hmm now thats funny our Imams have been source for knowledge for your Imams… but Imam Mahdi A.S … comes from aqeedah of Ahley sunnah… I wonder why… btw which school of thought of Ahley sunnah… Maliki, hanafi..??? **
Prophet said the following hadith…
The Prophet (PBUH&HF) said: “The affairs of people will continue to be conducted (well) as long as they are governed by the twelve men, all of them from Quraysh.”
References:
Sahih Muslim (Arabic version)
Its amazing 11 of our Imams have been a good source of knowledge and some are also teachers of your imams but 12th imam comes from the aqeedah of ahley sunnah…
I’ll be waiting for your answer for my question in red… Please let me know if there are any errors in the references…
You can also refer too these two interesting articles if you want to learn more on Imams.
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/5.html
http://www.al-islam.org/encyclopedia/chapter1b/6.html
May Allah protect people from any erros within.. Ameen