Re: A question for fellow guppies on Quran and sunnah
**Texan Dude ** – Come back to the real world and stop deluding yourself that you are making anybody sweat or struggle with your rants. Half of your posts are just full of illusionary emotional rants and name calling. By calling me or anyone else “ignorant” or “lost souls” maybe doing wonders for your morale but cannot convince anyone of your arguments. Maybe you are just convincing yourself.
Time and again it has been shown to you from your own books that your Imams held Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) and Hz. Umar (ra) in very high esteem [see below once more]:
Once, the wife of Imam Jaffar as Sadiq asked him about Abu Bakr and Umar.
Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (ra) expressed his support to Abu Bakr and Umar.
He replied, "I support them”.
Then he said to his wife,” you should support them also."
His wife replied, “So should I say to my creator when I meet Him, that it is your order to support Abu Bakr and Umar.”
The truthful Imam Jaffar replied, ” Yes." - Source: Rawzatul Kafi, vol.8, p.101
Once, Imam Muhammad al-Baqir (ra) while sitting with his companions, praised Abu Bakr by calling him the truthful (“as-Siddiq”). One of his companions got astonished by this remark and inquired if he (the Imam) really meant what he said. Upon this Imam al-Baqir replied, “yes Abu Bakr is the truthful and whoever does not give this attribution to him, then may God make that person(who did not give the attribute) helpless on the day of resurrection” Source: Kashful Ghumamah, vol.2, p.174]
Now don’t tell me that your imams got it wrong or blame it to your books because the above does not fit in with your ideology!
You did not know that Hz. Ali (ra) had got his youngest daughter,Lady Umm Kulthum (ra) married to Hz. Umar Al Khattab (ra), did you? And I had to show that it has been discussed over here at the following thread: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthre...ghlight=Kulthum
All the references provided there are from your books, with narrations from your imams.
Go ahead and state that your imams and books have got it all wrong as the above does not fit in with your ideology.
Earlier you had posted the following hadith from Sahih Bukhari “Fatimah is a part of me. Whoever makes her angry makes me angry.” [References: Sunni references: - Sahih al-Bukhari, Arabic-English.] to show that Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) had earned Fatimah (ra)’s wrath in dealing with issue of Fadak.
At the following thread I showed from your books narration of your imam that Hz. Ali (ra) also earned Hz. Fatimah (ra)’s anger.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=3288108&postcount=83
In response you got uptight that I had written that the narration is in the book that you hold dear.
I had asked you if you were going to use the same standard of justice for Hz.Ali (ra) as you use against Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) for making Hz. Fatimah (ra) angry?
No response from your side but only blustering rants that I had somehow insulted Hz. Fatimah (ra) by stating that she could be mistaken by being angry with Hz. Abu Bakr (ra).
Let me reinstate that Ahlul Sunnah apart from the prophet (saw) do not hold any one infallible, whether that person is Hz. Abu Bakr (ra), Hz. Umar (ra), Hz. Uthman (ra), Hz Ali (ra), Hz.Fatimah (ra) or any other person.
By not holding them infallible it doesn’t meant that they are not pious and are sinful. Far from it. All it means that they can make unintentional mistakes and at times can be wrong by not having up to date information.
I am opening a new thread on Infallibility of Imams; please have your input by quoting the Quran showing that apart from the Prophet (saw) if any other people are infallibles.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?p=3321758#post3321758
It took at least 8 reminders to get a response form you to comment on the various ayahs of the Quran that have heaped praises and promised ultimate success in the hereafter to the Prophet’s companions [May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all].
And your response was:
Dear **Texan Dude ** – Leave the intentions of the heart to Allah (swt) and He will judge everybody as it is ONLY HIM who knows the intentions of the heart. It’s not your job. Just believe what the Quran states, and that should suffice you.
Once, Imam Shafii (rahimullah) asked some Jews: “Who are the most **honoured ** people in your Nation (Ummah)?”
They replied: “The Companions of Moses.”
He turned to the Christians and asked: “Who are the most **honoured ** people in your Nation (Ummah)?”
They replied: “The Companions of Jesus.”
Imam Shafii (rahimullah) then asked the Shias: “Who are the most **dishonoured ** people in your Nation (Ummah)?”
They replied: “The Companions of Muhammad.”
I thank Allah (swt) that it is only 10% -15% of the Ummah who hold on to this view. – AlHamdulilah for that.
There is no problem with the above narrations at all.
You should be aware that Hz. Ali stated the following too:
……………With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, **namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. ** The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf…………….Nahjul Balagha 126
Imam Ali bin Abu Talib (r.a.) said: “The Messenger of Allah called me and told me: ‘You are alike with Jesus, Jews hated him till they slandered his mother, and Christians loved him till they put him in the position that is not for him.’ With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. Verily, I am not a prophet, and there is nothing revealed to me. But I work with the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of his Prophet (pbuh) as much as I can. So whatever I have asked you in regard of obeying Allah, it is your duty to obey me whether you like it or not.” [Imam Ahmad]
You can check all our books (that we hold dear) are full of praises for Hz. Ali (ra) and the rest of Ahlul Bayt (raa). In fact we have much more members into Ahlul Bayt (raa) than what you have. We love Hz. Ali (ra) but not at expense of anybody else.
Personally, I have one son and have named him Ali. I hope and pray that my son lives up to my expectations of this great name of a great Companion of the Prophet (saw) – Ameen
Now I will address the points raised by you individually in each post.