A question about Hz. Ali :razi:...

Would Hz. Ali :razi: be considered as an ineffectual leader?

From what I read, during his 5 years as a Khalilfa, a great famine spread, more than 100,000 Muslims died in a civil war, no conquests were made but Muslims actually lost land and a great divide occurred which resonates amongst Muslims to this day…

Although I do in no way doubt the greatness of Hz. Ali :razi:, but just a genuine question…

P.S.
**
A Diclaimer:**

This is not an Ummayad conspiracy, I do not hate Hz. Ali :razi: or hold Bughz-e-Ali, I do not hate the Ahl-e-Bait, I do not follow Yazid e.t.c…

It is a question worth asking…

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Personally I do not like the question. I dunno why but I really do not. He was a Khalifa-e-Rashid.

Firstly, conquest were from Allah:swt: in previous khulafa-e-Rashideen.

Secondly, femine was from Allah(SWT) as a test for him and muslims and they passed :alhamd:

Thirdly, he:razi: is part of Khilafa Ala Min Haaj-il-Nubuwah:saw: and Prophet:saw: said “it will remain among you till Allah:swt: wills”

So, the divide was but from Allah:swt: as well not because of him… the question actually gives an expression that he was the reason of divide… I am sorry he can never be.

:salam:

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Thank you Anwaar…I myself totally believe in what you say…

However, the previous three Khulfa-e-Rashideen, whom Shias consider amongst the Munafiqeen, served Islam to the point where the most conquest took place under their leadership…

The first army in history, system of taxation, ledgers of accounts and spending, spreading of Islam throughout the Arabian peninsula, the first official houses of learning, compilation of the Quran, the most peaceful era in Arab lands in history was done under the leadership of the first three Khulfa-e-Rashideen (May Allah bless them)…

Their phenomenal achievements and unity of a single people joined together by a common ideology (Islam) in that time is incomparable in history…No other race has ever achieved in so little time as the first three Khulfa-e-Rashideen…

But all of it stopped under the leadership of Hz. Ali :razi:

Although my religious sentiments make me humble before the greatness of Hz. Ali (razi) but my curiosity makes me question these things about him…

Although I truly do agree with your wonderful explanations and for which I am thankful, the one person whose feedback I would like most in this matter is brother Ibn Sadique…

I am sure we can both benefit from his knowledge :insha:…

And my question is a genuine query aimed at dispelling my doubts…Not any act of rebellion on part of a follower of Yazid, as anyone who questions such things, is labelled as…

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

If you read more you will find out that all these phantoms were born and nurtured during the khilafat of Hazrat Usman (ra)

great divide occurred which resonates amongst Muslims to this day…

Hazrat Usman saw this happening and did nothing to stop it, he was too kind and tender that this virtue became his weakness, despite repeated advice from his advisors he declined to take action against these evil fasadi element

more than 100,000 Muslims died in a civil war

What was the cause of civil war ?
Martyrdom of Hazrat Usman(ra)

Had he showed and governed little control over criminals and if he had punished them the course of history would have been different.

He (hazrat Usman :razi: ) gave free hand to those khawarjis which made them strong and erased any fear from the hearts of criminal. Such lieniency, and negligence to curb evil forces shows his ineffectiveness which had lasting effect on muslim nation in comming centuries.

Muslim divide begin with the brutal murder of Hazrat Usman Ghani (ra) as he himself said that “If you kill me now you wont be able to unite again as a nation, again”

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Lajawab

As Anwaar rightly said it was ALLAH’s will that successes happened in certain periods and not during Hadrat Ali’s :razi: time.

Every khlifah rashid did which was the best possible strategy for his time. meaning if hadrat Ali:razi: were khalifah at hadrat Umer:razi: time he would have done exactly what hadrat umer:razi: did and vice versa.

The best achievement of hadrat ali :razi: was his startegy during fitnah , how muslims should react during fitnah times and above all how should muslims react when they disagree with each other.

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:…

Brother Lajawab – What the brothers have written above is correct.

Every great leader depends on his followers to make success of his mission. That’s the reason why our dear Prophet (saw) was full of praise for his Companions for they supported his mission with their lives and wealth.

Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib (karamallah wajhu) has himself pointed out to his ‘apparent failure’ to expand the boundaries of the Khilaafat. Mind you there were conspiracies within his camp and from outside to make his his mission a ‘failure’.

Once Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib (karamallah wajhu) was asked by his follower as to why he was not ‘successful’ compared to the three earlier Khaleefs, he replied to the effect: “The earlier Khaleefs (May Allah be pleased with them) had likes of me as their advisor and it is my misfortune to have likes of you as mine.”

Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib (karamallah wajhu) was really fed up with his followers and rebuked them many a times. Below are just a few examples from Nahjul Balagha –purported to be saying of Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib (ra).

Sermon 34

Woe to you. I am tired of rebuking you. Do you accept this worldly life in place of the next life? Or disgrace in place of dignity? When I invite you to fight your enemy your eyes revolve as though you are in the clutches of death, and in the senselessness of last moments. My pleadings are not understood by you and you remain stunned. It is as though your hearts are affected with madness so that you do not understand.

You have lost my confidence for good. Neither are you a support for me to lean upon, nor a means to honour and victory. Your example is that of the camels whose protector has disappeared, so that if they are collected from one side they disperse away from the other side.

By Allah, how bad are you for igniting flames of war. You are intrigued against but do not intrigue (against the enemy). Your boundaries are decreasing but you do not get enraged over it. Those against you do not sleep but you are unmindful. By Allah, those who leave matters one for the other are subdued.

By Allah, I believed about you that if battle rages and death hovers around you, you will cut away from the son of Abi Talib like the severing of head from the trunk. By Allah, he who makes it possible for his adversary to so overpower him as to remove the flesh (from his bones), crush his bones and cut his skin into pieces, then it means that his helplessness is great and his heart surrounded within the sides of his chest is weak.

You may become like this if you wish. But for me, before I allow it I shall use my sharp edged swords of al-Mushrafiyyah which would cut as under the bones of the head and fly away arms and feet. Thereafter, Allah will do whatever He wills.

O’ people, I have a right over you and you have a right over me. As for your right over me, that is to counsel you, to pay you your dues fully, to teach you that you may not remain ignorant and instruct you in behaviourism that you may act upon. As for my right over you, it is fulfilment of (the obligation of) allegiance, well-wishing in presence or in absence, response when I call you and obedience when I order you.

Sermon 68

How long shall I accord you consideration that is accorded to camels with hollow hump, or to worn clothes which when stitched on one side give way on the other. Whenever a vanguard force of Syria (ash-Sham) hovers over you, everyone of you shuts his door and hides himself like the lizard in its hole or a badger it its den.

By Allah, he whom people like you support must suffer disgrace and he who throws arrows with your support is as if he throws arrows that are broken both at head and tail. By Allah, within the courtyard you are quite numerous but under the banner you are only a few.

Certainly, I know what can improve you and how your crookedness can be straightened. But I shall not improve your condition by marring myself. Allah may disgrace your faces and destroy you. You do not understand the right as you understand the wrong and do not crush the wrong as you crush the right.

Sermon 96

Although Allah gives time to the oppressor, His catch would not spare him. Allah watches him on the passage of his way and the position of that which suffocates the throats.

By Allah in Whose power my life lies, these people (Mu`awiyah and his men) will overcome you not because they have a better right than you but because of their hastening towards the wrong with their leader and your slowness about my right (to be followed). People are afraid of the oppression of their rulers while I fear the oppression of my subjects.

I called you for war but you did not come. I warned you but you did not listen. I called you secretly as well as openly, but you did not respond. I gave you sincere counsel, but you did not accept it. Are you present like the absent, and slaves like masters? I recite before you points of wisdom but you turn away from them, and I advise you with far reaching advice but you disperse away from it. I rouse you for jihad against the people of revolt but before I come to the end of my speech, I see you disperse like the sons of Saba.

You return to your places and deceive one another by your counsel. I straighten you in the morning but you are back to me in the evening as curved as the back of a bow. The sraightener has become weary while those to be straightened have become incorrigible.

O’ those whose bodies are present but wits are absent, and whose wishes are scattered. Their rulers are on trial. Your leader obeys Allah but you disobeyed him while the leader of the people of Syria (ash-Sham) disobeys Allah but they obey him.

By Allah, I wish Mu`awiyah exchanges with me like Dinars with Dirhams, so that he takes from me ten of you and gives me one from them.

O’ people of Kufah, I have experienced in you three things and two others: you are deaf in spite of having ears, dumb in spite of speaking, and blind in spite of having eyes. You are neither true supporters in combat nor dependable brothers in distress. Your hands may be soiled with earth. O’ examples of those camels whose herdsman has disappeared, if they are collected together from one side they disperse from the other.

By Allah, I see you in my imagination that if war becomes intense and action is in full swing you would run away from the son of Abi Talib like the woman who becomes naked in the front. I am certainly on clear guidance from my Lord (Allah) and on the path of my Prophet and I am on the right path which I adhere to regularly.

**About the Household of the Holy Prophet **

Look at the people of the Prophet’s family. Adhere to their direction. Follow their footsteps because they would never let you out of guidance, and never throw you into destruction. If they sit down, you sit down, and if they rise up you rise up. Do not go ahead of them, as you would thereby go astray and go not lag behind of them as you would thereby be ruined.

I have seen the companions of the Prophet but I do not find anyone resembling them. They began the day with dust on the hair and face (in hardship of life) and passed the night in prostration and standing in prayers. Sometimes they put down their foreheads and sometimes their cheeks. With the recollection of their resurrection it seemed as though they stood on live coal. It seemed that in between their eyes there were signs like knees of goats, resulting from long prostrations. When Allah was mentioned their eyes flowed freely till their shirt collars were drenched. They trembled for fear of punishment and hope of reward as the tree trembles on the day of stormy wind.

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/index.htm

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

lajawab brother u need to stop thinking so hard…
u seem to be losing ur way…

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

As far as Hazrat Ali’s Taqwa, Buzrugi and closeness to Allah and Prophet is concerned, very few come close to that…But as far as him being a effect adminstrator is concerned, it left a lot to be desired…I am glad Abu Bakr and Umar RAT were the men incharge during the more perilous and vulnerable time(s) in the history of Islam, immediately after the passing away of the Prophet (PBUH)…If it wasn’t for Umar, all the Pakistani degenerates would still be pagans…

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:…

it is not my intention to start a fitna in this thread but it should be kept in mind that the apparent failure of his reign was not solely due to his own followers

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/117.htm

http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/181.htm

rather it was a combination of factors and as brother code-red pointed out the roots of the problem went back to the earlier administration.
Followers of Ali were of 2 kinds

  1. those who were personally devoted to him and hence accompanied in him in his battles and fought for him ( some muhajireen , mostly ansar , some tribes from Yemen and the Qurra of Kufa )
  2. Kharijites and other tribes settled in kufa and Iraq who were fighting the syrians primarily for financial or political reasons obviously they had no interest in fighting for upholding islam and were vulnerable to bribery by Ali’s opponents (syrians)
    http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/letters/letter70.htm#letter70

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Exactly… it is always hard to motivate people to follow the right path esp. when they are tempted by the wrongdoers to go astray …even then more than 20,000 faithful muslims died fighting for Ali at jamal, siffin and nahrawan

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Hazrat Ali (ra) faced immense political challenges as Khalifah. A lesser leader would have made a total mess of things and left the Ummah crippled forever from a very young age.

The fact is that Hazrat Ali (ra) negotiated an immense political minefield and only set off a few mines while doing so, and so I consider him to have been a very effective leader indeed.

True, he did not expand the borders of the Khalifah like his predecessors, but if he had done so he would undone the Khalifah through ignoring the politics within. His actions all strengthened the Ummah, through limiting the size and magnitude of schisms that were occuring anyway, and through controlling efforts to corrupt Islam (such as the campaigns against the Kharijites).

Faced with a brutally tough and challenging political situation, Hazrat Ali (ra) handled it with incredible wisdom, mercy, and skill. He was truly one of the best leaders of the Ummah. The Ummah could certainly do with a leader just like him today, as we face a situation just as tough as the one he did.

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Brother **Das Reich **I think you got it wrong.( Understandably so).

  1. Overwhelming number of Sahabahs (raa) kept away from this fitnah. Very few were in either camp. The majority of the followers of Hz. Ali (ra) were from Kufa and its surrounds, some tribes from Yemen (including the infamous Ibn Saba who later attributed divinity and infallibility to Hz. Ali (ra)) and Egyptians agitators who had brutally murdered Hz. Uthman bin Affan (ra).

Because majority of his supporters were from Kufa (Iraq) and aloofness of people of Hijaz (Madinah and Makkah) from this fitnah Hz. Ali (ra) had to abandon Madinah and move his capital to Kufa (home of majority of his supporters).

These are the very supporters Hz. Ali has condemned over and over again for their cowardliness and fickle mindedness.

Read my post 6 again especially the highlighted text and see how fed up and disappointed was Hz. Ali with his followers that he had to utter such words:

“You have lost my confidence for good. Neither are you a support for me to lean upon, nor a means to honour and victory.”

“Your boundaries are decreasing but you do not get enraged over it.”

“By Allah, he whom people like you support must suffer disgrace”

“Certainly, I know what can improve you and how your crookedness can be straightened. But I shall not improve your condition by marring myself. Allah may disgrace your faces and destroy you.”

“I straighten you in the morning but you are back to me in the evening as curved as the back of a bow. The sraightener has become weary while those to be straightened have become incorrigible.”

“You are neither true supporters in combat nor dependable brothers in distress.”

See Hz. Ali (ra) valued the commitment of his opposition that he was willing exchange 10 of his own to 1 from Hz. Muawiyah (ra).

“By Allah, I wish Mu`awiyah exchanges with me like Dinars with Dirhams, so that he takes from me ten of you and gives me one from them.”

And read more about Hz. Ali (ra)’s rebuking of his own followers:

Nahjul Balagha Sermon 27

O’ you semblance of men, not men, your intelligence is that of children and your wit is that of the occupants of the curtained canopies (women kept in seclusion from the outside world). I wish I had not seen you nor known you. By Allah, this acquaintance has brought about shame and resulted in repentance. May Allah fight you! You have filled my heart with pus and loaded my bosom with rage. You made me drink mouthful of grief one after the other. You shattered my counsel by disobeying and leaving me so much so that Quraysh started saying that the son of Abi Talib is brave but does not know (tactics of) war. Allah bless them! Is any one of them more fiercer in war and more older in it than I am? I rose for it although yet within twenties, and here I am, have crossed over sixty, but one who is not obeyed can have no opinion.

Nahjul Balagha SERMON 29

O’ people, your bodies are together but your desires are divergent. Your talk softens the hard stones and your action attracts your enemy towards you. You claim in your sittings that you would do this and that, but when fighting approaches, you say (to war), “turn thou away” (i.e. flee away).

If one calls you (for help) the call receives no heed. And he who deals hardly with you his heart has no solace. The excuses are amiss like that of a debtor unwilling to pay. The ignoble can not ward off oppression. Right cannot be achieved without effort. Which is the house besides this one to protect? And with which leader (Imam) would you go for fighting after me?

By Allah! Deceived is one whom you have deceived while, by Allah! He who is successful with you receives only useless arrows. You are like broken arrows thrown over the enemy. By Allah! I am now in the position that I neither confirm your views nor hope for your support, nor challenge the enemy through you. What is the matter with you? What is your ailment? What is your cure? The other party is also men of your shape (but they are so different in character). Will there be talk without action, carelessness without piety and greed in things not right?!

A righteous and brave leader, as undoubtly Hz. Ali (ra) was, needs brave and commited followers to carry out his mission.

A brave lion cannot lead an army of sheep and wimps to succeed

  1. Khawarj, however we might hate them they were not as you say “primarily for financial or political reasons obviously they had no interest in fighting for upholding islam”.

Far from it they were very fanatical and passionate about [their version of] Islam and they were not in it for the money or for worldly life. They were never pro Hz. Muawiyah (ra) and never sought any favours from him and it was Hz. Ali (ra) who had to finish them off. Check below:

The Battle of Nahrawan

http://www.witness-pioneer.org/vil/Articles/companion/69_ali_bin_talib.htm

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

This too is slightly skewed view – Those who died in the battles of Jamal and Siffin from both sides were as much faithful Muslims as the other. Only difference is that Hz. Ali (ra) stand was correct and others stand was on the wrong due to incorrect ijtehad.

Read the following what Hz. Ali (ra) to say of this opponents.

Nahjul Balaghah, Letter 58

"The thing began in this way: We and the Syrians were facing each other while we had common faith in one Allah, in the same Nabi (saw) and on the same principles and canons of religion. So far as faith in Allah and the Holy Prophet (saw) was concerned we never wanted them (the Syrians) to believe in anything over and above or other than what they were believing in and they did not want us to change our faith. Both of us were united on these principles. The point of contention between us was the question of the murder of Uthman. It had created the split. They wanted to lay the murder at my door while I am actually innocent of it……………..”

Hazrat Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) himself does not see the conflict as religious but political. He took the faith of his opponents on par with his own.

Read the beautiful sermon below how Hz. Ali (ra) gracious as he always was asked his followers to ‘deal’ with his opponents

Sermon 205 Nahjul-Balaghah

"I dislike you starting to abuse them, but if you describe their deeds and recount their situations that would be a better mode of speaking and a more convincing way of arguing. Instead of abusing them you should say, “O’ Allah! save our blood and their blood, produce reconciliation between us and them, and lead them out of their misguidance so that he who is ignorant of the truth may know it, and he who inclines towards rebellion and revolt may turn away from it.”

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Spot on!

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

[quote=Ibn Sadique]
Brother **Das Reich **I think you got it wrong.( Understandably so).

1

where did i say that the majority of followers were right ?I merely stated that they were of 2 kinds and the distinction must not be blurred …regarding people of kufa remember it was populated with tribes which had actively participated in the conquest of persia and in terms of population the best source for trained soldiers esp. after syria lost to rebels . Hijaz was never abandoned by Ali but he apointed different governers there …

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

true the kharijites were not pro-muawiyah you are right …I should have been more clear … but those who failed to respond to the call to arms after nahrawan were primarily ashath ibn qays and his comrades …the link you quoted clearly states these people failed to fight AFTER nahrawan during the raids into hijaz and yemen, these are the people who were being bribed.

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:…

[quote=Ibn Sadique]

brother that is your understanding of the situation , certain exceptions like Zubair(ra) who were early muslims did fall into error but quickly corrected themselves by LEAVING the battlefield and not shedding unneccesary blood …but at siffin fighting went on for days with thousand killed before syrians asked for a armistice and that too because they were losing
here is rest of the letter you quoted …

so clearly even though the syrians intially were of the same faith because they did not keep their pledge they were far from being true believers.same goes for those who were reluctant to fight them but those who answered the call to arms and fought against the rebels and died were martyrs (sermon 181)

the situation at that time can be best represented by this sermon
http://www.al-islam.org/nahjul/199.htm

also sermon #93

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

Respected Lajawab

Assalam-o-Alaikum

I sincerely hope and pray that you and your family are all fine by the grace of Allah Almighty.

Regarding your question, I can smell the sincere love for the Sahaba (RA) and a great respect for Ahl-e-Bait (RA). No doubt it is a very important question. Brother Anwar is also quit right. But let me share my humble views as well.

Before that, let me confess that I have a deep respect and love for Ahl-e-Bait (RA) and Sahaba (RA). Moreover, I respect the views of every sect and faction of our Religion. It is not my intention to start a controversy or to hurt anybody’s feelings. If God forbade, anything of this sort happens, I hereby offer my appologies in advance. Here are my humble deliberations.

First of all, worldly achievments and conquests are not absolute measures of one’s greatness. Had it been so, then Chengiz Khan, Hulago, Atilla the Hun etc would have been greater than so many. They could have been great for their own people, but infact, most of the historians have labelled them as destroyers and ruthless, reckelss and heedless wariors.

Secondly, there is no guarantee that a good reformer can be successful. Had it been so, then Muhammad Tughlaq would have been probably the most successful ruler of India. He introduced reforms, which were way ahead of his time, but none worked for him and eventually he was labelled as an unfortunate failed ruler. Most of his reforms were adopted by later rulers and even British, but they were lucky to get away with the label of being unfortunate.

Thirdly, if the appearance of civil wars in a regime is considered to be a sign of one’s wekness, then proabably Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb was the weakest, who spent all his life as a ruler, fighting these civil wars and mutinies throughout India. On the contrary he is considered as role model among Indian rulers.

Fourthly, if number of dead is directly proportional to ones in-effectiveness, then probably, Sir Lord Winston Spencer Churchill was the most ineffective leader in the history of Britain who made millions of Bitish soldiers die for the Crown.

Fifthly, if the appearance of a famine is considered to be a sign of a soft leader without any grasp on state affairs, then probably Hazrat Umar (RA) was also a soft leader without any grasp on the Khilafat (Maáz Allah).

And Sixthly, if the absence of any conquest is betoken as a sign of ineptness on part of a ruler, then my brother, what would we consider of the life of our Holiest of all the Prophets, Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh), before the conquest of Makkah? (Maáz Allah).

Sir, let me share another thing with you. Similar questions were also put to Hazrat Ali (RA). He was asked to respond on these differences and difficulties which were not faced by his equally great predecessors. He was asked to come up with any plausible explanation for this. His reply is one of the most important in order to understand the appearance of these difficulties. His reply to the question askers was, “My predecessors were lucky and successful, becuase they had advisers like me, I am unlucky to have advisors like you”.

My brother, at many times, Hazrat Umar (RA) one of the most successful Khalifa-e-Rashid, asked for the advice of Hazrat Ali (RA) and each time confessed, “Had Ali (RA) not been there, behold, Umar (RA) would have perished”. One of the occasion was at the time of war with the Romans, when Hazrat Umar (RA) wanted to go along with the army but was advised to stay back in Madina-e-Munawara by Hazrat Ali (RA). Another was at the time of famine in Madina-e-Munawara, when a person hungary for several days, accused of stealing wheat was sentenced for the amputation of his hand. When being asked from Hazrat Ali (RA) about the legitimacy of the verdict, he annulled it saying thereby that there is no Hadd on a hungary person during a famine on stealing wheat. Subhan Allah. So my friend, how come a man, who helped a great Sahabi like Hazrat Umar (RA) not to perish, and led to the strengthening of the Muslim Khilafat, be labelled as an in-effective ruler.

Sir, let me be very frank and open. If you study Islamic History, the conclusions reacehed in a book will depend upon the author and the school of thought behind the book, which ofcourse is quite natural. This includes all the historians, whether Muslim or not. There are books by non Shias labelling Hazrat Ali (RA) as a great leader and there are books by non Shias labelling Hazrat Usman (RA) as an ineffective ruler. In my opinion, none was in-effective. By the way Sir, I am not a Shia. I am just a plain, humble servant of the Holiest of all the Prophets Hazrat Muhammad, (pbuh), who respects both his Ahl-e-Bait (RA) and his companions (RA).

Now Sir, lets consider everything from an altogether different angle.

Lets assume, that the division in Islamic Khilafat, created by Hazrat Muawiah (RA), happened in the time of Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA).

Lets assume that the vice of Kharijites, who claimed to be Muslims appeared and made an army in the time of Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA).

What could have been his response? He waged a war on the infidels siding along the imposter prophet Musailama Kazab. Similarly he waged a war on those muslims who refused to pay Zakat. At the first instance, he was forbade by the Sahaba, not to send troops against Musailama Kazab. But he did, saying it to be manace for the Khilafat and a dis-respect for the Prophethood of Hazart Muhammad (pbuh). Second time again, he was advised not to send an army, still he sent it against the wrong interpretters of Shariah in the case of Zakat, saying that he would make sure that if anybody used to give even a tiny rope as Zakat, he would do the same again. Now please for one moment, juxtapose the great personality of Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) in the proposed assumptions. My friend, I am sure that Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) would have also done the same. Consider the time of choosing a Khalifa at Saqifa-e-Banu Saéda, when Ansars proposed to have two Khulafa, one from Muhajareen and one from Ansar. This proposal was strongly rejected by Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA), Hazrat Umar (RA) and Hazrat Abdul Rehman bin Auf (RA), the three representatives of Muhajareen. Similarly, anybody, trying to form an Emirate of his own in the Khiafat of Muslims, would have been fought with, by Hazrat Abu Bakar (RA) in the same way like, to avoid division in the Khilafat, whether it was Hazrat Muawiah (RA) or any body else. Similarly he would have fought against the Kharijite in the same way he did against the refusers of Zakat. Since such incidents, did not happen in the Khilafat of Hazrat Abu Bakr (RA), Hazrat Umar (RA) or Hazrat Usman (RA), so naturally, anything good or bad, related with these incidents were labelled with the personality of Hazrat Ali (RA).

Please consider one more option. No Khalifa, faced as many difficulties as Hazrat Ali (RA). No Khalifa, faced as many problems as Hazrat Ali (RA). No Khalifa made as many difficult decisions as Hazrat Ali made. No Khalifa was faced with as much enemies as Hazrat Ali (RA). No Khalifa, was betrayed by his own men like Hazrat Ali (RA). Considering all this and the reponse of the Brother of the Prophet, the Son in Law of the Prophet, this fourth Khalifa of the Prophet stands miles above ordinary rulers of the world. All this infact proves that he was probably the most capable of all the Khulafa, because the true test of ones strength of character and ability is in difficult times, not the happy go lucky eras.

One thing more Sir, of all the four Khulafa, Hazrat Ali (RA) was the only one who was four in one i.e., A Ruler, A Faqih, An Alim and A General.

Sir I am not finished as yet. Let me relate something else as well. Out of all the four Khulafa-e-Rashideen (RA), only Hazrat Ali (RA) had the honour of leading a community as the Deputy of Holy Prophet Hazrat Muhammad (pbuh) on two different occasions. First was at the time of Ghazwah-i-Tabook when, Holy Prophet (mpuh), left Hazrat Ali (RA) behind in Madina saying “O ye Ali (RA), you are unto me, as Haroon (AS) was unto Musa (AS)”. Had he been in-capable, Holy Prophet (pbuh) would have never left a Lion of Allah (Assad Ullah), behind and would have taken him along in the battle field as before. Second was the time when Holy Prophet (pbuh), made Hazart Ali (RA) Governer of Yemen in his life. It was in Yemen, where Holy Prophet (pbuh), sent a message to Hazrat Ali (RA) about his last pilgrimage and told him to reach Makkah. And most of the Muslims even do not know that Hazrat Ali (RA), came all the way from Yemen to Makkah and not from Madina, to perform hajj and participate in Hajja-tul-Widda. My brothers in Islam, please do not consider that I am in anyway trying to bellitle the great companions of Holy Prophet (pbuh) like the first three Khulafa (RA). But what I am trying to do is to disprove the myth that (Maáz Allah) Hazrat Ali ul Murtaza, Asad Ullah, Yadd Ullah, Haider-e-Karar, Sahib-e-Zulfiqar was an in-effective ruler.

And lastly dear Sir, the following dictum was not coined by any Shia or any Persian. Infact this was a common Arabic Proverb in the days of Holy Prophet (mpuh) that

La fattah ila ALI (RA), la saif ila ZULFIQAR
There is no youth like ALI (RA) and no sword like ZULFIQAR.

May Allah Almighty give all the Muslims, the true respect and love of both the Ahl-e-Bait and Companions of the Holy Prophet (pbuh). May Allah Almighty unite all the Muslim brethern as one Ummah as envisaged by our Holy Prophet (mpbh). May Allah Almighty make all of us ONE, without the discrimination of SUNNI, SHIA, WAHABI, DEOBANDI etc. Ameen.

If at all, my Muslim brothers, I have inadvertantly hurt anybody’s feelings, please forgive me.

Regards for all of you especially worthy Lajawab.

Khuda Hafiz.

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

[quote=“Das Reich”]

Not just mine, that’s the stance of ahlul Sunnah.

There is no comparison between the status of Hz. Ali (ra) and that of Hz. Muawiyah (ra).

If you were read what Hz. Ali (ra) had to say about shortcomings, corwardliness and fickle mindedness of his own followers compared to what he had to say against Hz. Muawiyah (ra) it comes very apparent that he was more let down by his own followers than the ‘cunningness’ of Hz. Muawiyah (ra).

For me the following really sums up Hz. Ali (ra)'s dilemma: (posted earlier by me)

The quality of bulk of Hz. Ali (ra)'s followers can be guaged from the following remarks of Hz. Ali (ra):

“By Allah, I wish Mu`awiyah exchanges with me like Dinars with Dirhams, so that he takes from me ten of you and gives me one from them.”

Now compare these remarks to that of Prophet (ra) about his Companions (raa)!!

BTW see the interesting link about Development of Kufa

http://www.holynajaf.net/eng/html/holy_kufa/index.html (below a small extraction from it)

“Imam then makes Kufa his headquarters for strategic reasons as he still has to contend with Muawiya in Syria, and the Imam’s core supporters are from Kufa.”

You can read the the link to the following post about stance of Sunni Scholars to the autheticity of Nahjul Balagha

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showpost.php?p=2357489&postcount=77

Re: A question about Hz. Ali :razi:

so if you do not consider it authentic why do you quote from it ?since the source of condemnation of syrians and kufans is the same