Re: A new country in the making?
The jihadi infrastructure exists because large number of people in punjab and nwfp do not see anything wrong with these groups. What started out as a baby feeding on an umbilical cord has now grown out into a full grown snake with many heads.
Re: A new country in the making?
My friend in 1971, two Jehadi groups AL-Badar and Al-Shams based in the Urdu-speaking Bihari group terrorised/massacred a lot of Bangla speaking people...Could you enlighten us on as to the genesis of those outfits?
Re: A new country in the making?
Yes, my friend lets revisit 1971 when Pashtun Tikka Khan led the massacres of Bengalis followed by Pashtun Gen Niazi who signed the surrender documents. Both these organizations set by the army were short-lived and failed in their goals.
Re: A new country in the making?
Aside from this discussion, the establishment tried to play the double game i.e. support Taleban covertly and pretend overtly as if it knows nothing about Taleban activities...But US/NATO etc. have their own dirty tricks to play...Time-to-time, they pressured Pakistan to do something concrete about Taleban and reminded it the 100 million dollars per month in aid...Ultimately, US linked the aid with visible steps by Pakistan against Taleban...When pressed hard, time to time Pakistan passed intelligence to US/NATO about the movement of Taleban leaders like Baitullah Masood, Mullah Dadullah, etc. And when these leaders were killed, Taleban started suspecting Pakistan's motive ...It now seems US/NATO have become successful to create a wedge between Taleban and its mentors...
Now the same Taleban could be used against Pakistan...A number of intelligence agencies like RAW, MUSAD, etc. must also be roaming around in FATA/Afghanistan...
This is dangerous for Pakistan...I think Pakistan should sincerely stop aiding Taleban...100 million dollars although a handsome money may harm Pakistan's stability and interests in the long run...
Re: A new country in the making?
Yes, my friend lets revisit 1971 when Pashtun Tikka Khan led the massacres of Bengalis followed by Pashtun Gen Niazi who signed the surrender documents. Both these organizations set by the army were short-lived and failed in their goals.
Man Tikka Khan is not a Pashtun...Gen Niazi no longer spoke Pashto...He was a Siraiki speaker...You forgot one name though...Gen Sahibzada Yakub Khan who was also posted there...The only Pashtun general at that time was Gen Gul Hassan...but he never was posted to East Pakistan...
Anyhow, even if Pashtun, I don't support such actions...I despise Gen Fazl Haq, Gul Hassan, and others ...
Re: A new country in the making?
President General Yayha Khan was also a Qizilbash Pashtun, but I am sure his “Pashtun-ness” will be called into question as well, and some link made to “Hindustani Muslims”. 
Re: A new country in the making?
Hope this removes your doubts.
“Yahya Khan was born in chakwal in 1917 to a family of ethnic Qizilbash Persian soldiers. He attended Punjab University and finished first in his class. He then joined the British Army, and served in World War II as an officer in the 4th Infantry Division (India). He served in Iraq, Italy, and North Africa.”
For Qazlbash, see :
As he was born in Chakwal, now you can go and convince the folks at DCPersian about the ethnic link between Punjab and Persians.
Gen Tikka Khan main culprit in the massacre of Bangalis was a Punjabi.
“Khan was born in the village of Jochha Mamdot (Tehsil Kahuta) near Rawalpindi, in 1915 (in what was then British India. He was a graduate of the Indian Military Academy at Dehradun, and was commissioned in 1939.
…
When Yahya Khan the then Chief of Army Staff and President ordered the brutal crushing of Bengalis, Tikka Khan was the man in charge of carrying out the carnage in East Pakistan, now Bangladesh earning him a reputation and nick-name of Butcher of Bangladesh”
Re: A new country in the making?
A more insightful fact is that out of the 11 chiefs of the army, four have been Pashtuns (Generals Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Gul Hasan Khan and Waheed Kakar), leading the institution for a total of 18 years.
http://khyberwatch.com/nandara/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=130
Re: A new country in the making?
The only Pashtun in 1971 by ancestry and by language was Gen Gul Hassan (Gul Hassan Khan - Wikipedia) who later became Commander in Chief…Gen Niazi neither spoke Pashto nor inhabited Pashtun land…Pashtun identity, ,like other identities, is territorial and ethno-cultural…which means territorial and/or linguistic affiliation is an integral part of the identity…
Re: A new country in the making?
Sadly, majority of pashtuns can’t seem to agree with you when they claim everyone from AQ Khan to Imran Khan as their own. Both fail your criteria for pashtun-ness.
Re: A new country in the making?
^ you two,raza & LOD can you let the pashtun thing go???
Re: A new country in the making?
Next time, I better not see you harping about karachi’s pashtun territory and it being included in your pashtunistan [believe me, i have seen other “awwghans” say that].
Btw, i have heard that peshawaris and areas closer to punjab are hindkos [hence these people are “fake” pathans] hence as someone said, FATAistan would be the only pashtunistan [doubt it will happen since then tribals will have to work, not able to get $$$ for their “loyalty” from both awwghans and pakistani].
Before you also start harping about the hindustani muslim conspiracy to make pathan taliban, do remember that your own mentor bacha khan communist was congressi and followed ideals of gandhi. ANP is the “frontier gandhi’s” byproduct..
Re: A new country in the making?
Mr. Reza “Pehlavi” Sahib, the article you have posted is by a Pakistani and part of a propaganda campaign to disown what is the doing of Pakistani establishment and associate it with an external entity…Finding scapegoats for its own deads is the old habit of Pakistani establishment…For example in the case of Nuclear Prolifiration, the whole military establishment was the guilty but poor Abdul Qadeer Khan had to bear the brunt.
Following is an excerpt from Encyclopedia Britinica, which also contains some information about Yayhya Khan’s ancestry (http://kcm.co.kr/pakistan/StoryBook/ref/YahyaKhan.html)
“Yahya was born to a family that was descended from the elite soldier class of Nader Shah, the Persian ruler who conquered Delhi in the 18th century. He was educated at Punjab University and later graduated first in his class from the Indian Military Academy at Dehra Dun. He served in Italy and the Middle East during World War II and, after the partition of India, organized the Pakistani Staff College in 1947.”
Re: A new country in the making?
Wasn't bacha abdali also a soldier in nader's army?
Re: A new country in the making?
Next time, I better not see you harping about karachi's pashtun territory and it being included in your pashtunistan [believe me, i have seen other "awwghans" say that].
Btw, i have heard that peshawaris and areas closer to punjab are hindkos [hence these people are "fake" pathans] hence as someone said, FATAistan would be the only pashtunistan [doubt it will happen since then tribals will have to work, not able to get $$$ for their "loyalty" from both awwghans and pakistani].
Before you also start harping about the hindustani muslim conspiracy to make pathan taliban, do remember that your own mentor bacha khan communist was congressi and followed ideals of gandhi. ANP is the "frontier gandhi's" byproduct..
Mr. Shriek, you would hopefully maintain the discussion at some level of civility...I will not answer this because it contains nothing to be answered...
Re: A new country in the making?
Yes, Gen Gul Hassan and Waheed Kakar were Pashtuns...no doubt about that...As for Gen Ayub Khan, I can't say anything for sure but many academicians even the most prominent ones count him a Punjabi...But Yahya Khan was a non-Pashtun...
Guys, I am not pro-General whether Pashtuns or non-Pashtuns...Now look at this Gen Babar...His hateful and despicable acts...
My aim is just to put things in perspective...I apologize if I've hurt feelings of someone here...
It is very unfortunate that most of us Pakistanis are not very well-informed...
Re: A new country in the making?
one thing for sure i.e. FATA, Balochistan issue has nothing to do with Taliban/Al qaida. Look at the history. The problem was always there. Thanks to Mush, now its getting out of the hands.
Also, stop calling them terrorists. You guys can't call terrorit to all those who are against Mush.
Re: A new country in the making?
Mr. Shriek, you would hopefully maintain the discussion at some level of civility...I will not answer this because it contains nothing to be answered...
Why, you haven't visited any pashtun / awwghan sites?
Re: A new country in the making?
^
1. well we don't really know if those were suicide bombings. (Anyting is fair in politics).
2. We all know that a lot of innocent people were killed by the govt too. Now don't expect that their relatives will send flowers to the govt.
we still don't know the number of people who were killed when Daira Bugti was attacked.
I think Retd Aslam baig said something very simple but true that our soldiers don't wanna kill their own people. They'll never be kidnapped if fight against another country.
Re: A new country in the making?
1- if there were not suicide bombs, then it makes it all okay, killing innocent ppl eh? anything is NOT fair in politics.
2- what innocent ppl were killed by govt? traitors, rebels..they had a chance to stop but they kept testing govt just like the morons in lal masjid. The casualties in both cases are no one's fault but the leaders of those ppl themselves.
thats my point. anything is NOT fair in politics but Mush thinks that it is.
Balochistan issue is not new. All the previous govts tried to ignore it. so i know that we can't blame it all on Mush. But Mush did make it worst.
Lal Masjid could be handled in a different way too. Noone cares for those women & children who were killed because they were poor. They didn't have anyone to raise voices for them.
Why weren't the journalists allowed to go in the masjid after this whole issue?.