A NATION is known by the role-models it keeps

[burqaposhx]

Pakistani street thugs have always picked up the grand role models such as: Saddam Hussain, Kim (very) ill Jung, Chavez, Osama, Nehru, Nijat, and now-castrated Castro.

No wonder that such mad tendencies have robbed Pakistan from fully realizing our capabilities and turned us into a energy-starved Jihadi-waste land.

These street thugs hate working hard like West Europeans, but they want all our entitlements to be ditto-copy of West Europeans.

In the name of Anti-West-ism, they have cut our hands, and destroyed our institutions.

They celebrate everyone and any eunuch who can throw shoes on heads of state, while totally ignoring the geo-strategic responsibilities of our nation.

In the normal psychological state, one would pick role models who are the BEST in the modern times.

But in these thugs’ Jihadi-diseased unstable psychological / mind-state, they pick the most despotic and tribal role models, who are not even worth the tattered tent where they dwell.

Is it Islamism or socialism? What is driving many in our nation to go pick up the worst role models in the world?

What is the reason of the bad choices in the role models?

[kakaballi]

Re: A NATION is known by the role-models it keeps

George W Bush would be an ideal choice.

[mrkool]

Re: A NATION is known by the role-models it keeps

1- Basic academic education is the reason primarily in the school.

2- One more reason could be, Every Muslim wanted to be a great preacher particularly in Pakistan non of them wanted to be good human being.

[khoji]

Is it Islamism or socialism? What is driving many in our nation to go pick up the worst role models in the world?

What is the reason of the bad choices in the role models?

You can't get the obvious answer?
Anti-Americanism.

And when was Nehru Pakistan's role model? Are you out of your mind?

[Sheeda_Pistol_1]

Re: A NATION is known by the role-models it keeps

In place of Nehru, Chavez, Castro , you should add shahrurkh khan, salman and other such khans from bollywood

[Raj_ind]

Pakistani street thugs have always picked up the grand role models such as: Saddam Hussain, Kim (very) ill Jung, Chavez, Osama, Nehru, Nijat, and now-castrated Castro.

Aurangzeb? Mehmood Gaznavi?

[hanibal]

Re: A NATION is known by the role-models it keeps

[Raj_ind]

Brother Haibal, Do U feel that Aurangzeb and Mehmood Gaznavi stood for Islamic principals? And they should be icons of Nation like Pakistan? Forget what atrocities they did to my forefathers in past, that wont be of ur use ever.

Let me see whether U have courage to answer this question in real Islamic language.

Peace.

[Mostar95]

[hanibal]

^^ Brother Haibal, Do U feel that Aurangzeb and Mehmood Gaznavi stood for Islamic principals? And they should be icons of Nation like Pakistan? Forget what atrocities they did to my forefathers in past, that wont be of ur use ever.

Let me see whether U have courage to answer this question in real Islamic language.

Peace.

Aurangzaib and Mehmood are considered hero in the Muslim history, i know this is not acceptable to you and many others... but this is one of the basis of two nation theory, Mehmood, Aurangzaib, Salahuddin, Noor ud din, Bebris are all villians and low character persons in the book of Hindus and Christains... so you and others can whin about it as much as they want...

Aurangzaib and Mehmood were 1000 time better than the leaders we have to live with...

[Raj_ind]

[QUOTE]
Aurangzaib and Mehmood are considered hero in the Muslim history, i know this is not acceptable to you and many others... but this is one of the basis of two nation theory, Mehmood, Aurangzaib, Salahuddin, Noor ud din, Bebris are all villians and low character persons in the book of Hindus and Christains... so you and others can whin about it as much as they want...

[/QUOTE]

There is no question of being acceptable. I only talk of Aurangzeb and Mehmood Gaznavi here. They are low character persons according to my set of parameters, one was brutal to his father and brothers and another one was gay according to Allama Iqbal himself. But if ur moral standards allow them to be ur icons, than who am I to object to it???

[QUOTE]

Aurangzaib and Mehmood were 1000 time better than the leaders we have to live with...

[/QUOTE]

Sounds that U have very little choice in choosing ur icons, so Aurangzaib and Mehmood are hooked as icons.

[hanibal]

There is no question of being acceptable. I only talk of Aurangzeb and Mehmood Gaznavi here. They are low character persons according to my set of parameters, one was brutal to his father and brothers and another one was gay according to Allama Iqbal himself. But if ur moral standards allow them to be ur icons, than who am I to object to it???

Ya they are our heroes, do you have problem with that? if yes then deal with it as it ain't going to change any thing

nowwhich is saying that Illama Iqbal said one of them was gay.. to start with Illama Iqbal was not an historian, is it that One of them was gay and he enjoyed your Rajas or Aurangzaib being brutal to his siblings... either is the case, both have one thing common, they taught a damn good lesson to Hindus
and they did not get carried away with deceving character of Hindus

Sounds that U have very little choice in choosing ur icons, so Aurangzaib and Mehmood are hooked as icons.

[burqaposhx]

Aurangzeb? Mehmood Gaznavi?

Yes. Perhaps you are correct.

But the current discussion is about some relatively current role models that mostly come from Socialist and Islamist cesspools.

[niden]

@burqaposhx

But the current discussion is about some relatively current role models that mostly come from Socialist and Islamist cesspools.

Old role models are still applicable in current world, don't ignore that. Perhaps some old role models such as Prophet Mohammad is still applicable, indisputable atleast in Muslim world.

Current role models are mostly subjective. e.g. AH is role model for many but for others he is just another thug. It is very rare in 21st century that every one agrees on just one role model particularlyi n this age of different ethinicities, cultures and faiths with information overload.:)

[burqaposhx]

@niden

Old role models are still applicable in current world, .....

That's a valid point.

@niden

......Perhaps some old role models such as

...... Prophet Mohammad is still applicable, indisputable atleast in Muslim world. .....

I am glad that you preface this the sentence "Perhaps".

Yes. It is only perhaps that Muslims of today consider Mohammad pbuh as a role model. It is "perhaps" because when you open your eyes and see the reality, the thing will hit you in the forehead.

Muslims ONLY claim to have Mohammad pbuh as a role model. The real character of today's Muslims is totally opposite from the teachings and life of Mohammad pbuh.

Pick up the biggest Mullah with longest beard, and see if he follows the following 3 characteristics of Mohammad pbuh.

1. Be absolutely truthful (Do not tell a lie or twist the truth, all the time regardless of the political needs).
2. Be absolutely trustworthy (others life and property is absolutely safe in your hands regardless of the political needs of the time).
3. Be absolutely Merciful (forgiveness even when the other person is dumping sewage on you).

the reality is that Muslim societies and especially the top-to-bottom Maulanas are

1. Liars and twisters of truth. The biggest the beard, the worse the lie in the name of political expediency.
2. No one not even their brother trusts them with life or property. Visitors to Islamic lands are always under HUGE threat. Foreign visitors, minorities, women, and kids are being exploited and killed all in the name of Islam.
3. Ialmists are not merciful. Even on simple suspicion of Tohine resalat, these so called "followers of Mohammad" go burn and kill innocent minority Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs, and Bahais.

[infiniti]

[Raj_ind]

[QUOTE]
Ya they are our heroes, do you have problem with that? if yes then deal with it as it ain't going to change any thing

[/QUOTE]

No brother, why should I have any problem? U are free to choose ur role modle by which ur nation is going to be known.

[QUOTE]
which is saying that Illama Iqbal said one of them was gay.. to start with Illama Iqbal was not an historian, or Aurangzaib being brutal to his siblings... either is the case, both have one thing common, they taught a damn good lesson to Hindus
and they did not get carried away with deceving character of Hindus

[/QUOTE]

LOL brother, u are swearing about my mentality of someone else's? I m sure that U know that Allama Iqbal pointed out gay character of Mehmood in one of his verse. So what if he was not a historian? He could have taken his lessons from another reliable historian. One thing is for sure that Allama couldnt have wrongly said anything on this sensitive issue. And that doesnt cause any pain in my ........(sorry obscene language not allowed). Why U feel that pain is being caused somewhere BTW? I wish U feel alright with it. And according to Allama Iqbal, he didnt enjoyed any raja as u are trying to portray, but was infatuated to Ayaz.

Ur great role modle Aurangzaib was not only brutal to his siblings, but to his father too. Dont even try to skip the facts. And ya one thing is for sure, they both commited atrocities on Hindus, perhaps this is the only qualification they actually hold for becoming ur role modle. How human.

Bad effects of choosing wrong role modles are showing brother,better think about that. now sample this. I remind U of a beautiful verse from holy quran.....

16:125 (Y. Ali)Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

Now plz let me know how a person whose wife has been kidnapped by some goon becomes bad or coward in ur books? And the thief U are talking about used to do these act as a small child. .

It seems that U have lost it all brother. But dont worry I m there to pray for U. May ALLAH show U the right path. Ameen.

[hanibal]

@Raj_ind

No brother, why should I have any problem? U are free to choose ur role modle by which ur nation is going to be known.

LOL brother, u are swearing about my mentality of someone else's? I m sure that U know that Allama Iqbal pointed out gay character of Mehmood in one of his verse. So what if he was not a historian? He could have taken his lessons from another reliable historian. One thing is for sure that Allama couldnt have wrongly said anything on this sensitive issue. And that doesnt cause any pain in my ........(sorry obscene language not allowed). Why U feel that pain is being caused somewhere BTW? I wish U feel alright with it. And according to Allama Iqbal, he didnt enjoyed any raja as u are trying to portray, but was infatuated to Ayaz.

Please do mention where Illama Iqbal said that He ENJOYED Ayaaz, you Indians can seldom talk sense, according to your culture if someone is disliked than he is master of all evils and if someone is liked by the masses, then he is god or next to god..

Please do provide the verse with ref.

@Raj_ind

Ur great role modle Aurangzaib was not only brutal to his siblings, but to his father too. Dont even try to skip the facts. And ya one thing is for sure, they both commited atrocities on Hindus, perhaps this is the only qualification they actually hold for becoming ur role modle. How human.

Brutal or not, these kind of things does not make any ruler good or bad, if a rulers prays five time, fast all year long and does not do his duty, then he can be classified as one of the worst leader/ruler... same applies here, i am not interested in the Aurangzaib Alamger but i do like his tenure.. and thats what matter the most...

@Raj_ind

Bad effects of choosing wrong role modles are showing brother,better think about that. now sample this. I remind U of a beautiful verse from holy quran.....

**16:125 (Y. Ali)Invite (all) to the Way of thy Lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching; and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious: for thy Lord knoweth best, who have strayed from His Path, and who receive guidance.

The verse it self says it all ( as you are mentioning that one was gay and other was brutal) please read the last part..

Allah have blessed both of them, Both of them have earned respect of Muslims, Mehmood have been acknowledged as one of the finest Generals of the History, Aurangzaib Alamgeer, is still known as the strong pillar of Great Mughal Empire of India...

But as i have said earlier, because you don't like them, you will make them reason of all evils on the planet...

Anyway, I am glad that we have somebody to have the role models, somebody from our history, religion and tradition, your haterd for these two does support the basis of Two Nation Theory, where it says that, even the heroes of Hindu and Muslims are different, Hero of one is BAD GUY for others...

**

@Raj_ind

Now plz let me know how a person whose wife has been kidnapped by some goon becomes bad or coward in ur books? And the thief U are talking about used to do these act as a small child. .

The wife kidnapped and then it took years to get her back, i understand if this happens to a common man, but to a ruler and divine god of his time, what hept him waiting for years? fear of other king or maybe he was tired of his wife and was thinking sending a Thankyou note to the Rawand the King of Lanka...

I don't know how you can defend steeling habit of a small child... and what about steeling women cloth, aint he was teenager then? anyway its your choice whom you want to worship.. a coward or a theif....

[quote="Raj_ind"]

It seems that U have lost it all brother. But dont worry I m there to pray for U. May ALLAH show U the right path. Ameen.

You don't have to nor is requried by you, I have enough people to pray for me, i do not look forward to a back-stabber to pray for me...

[Raj_ind]

Please do mention where Illama Iqbal said that He ENJOYED Ayaaz, you Indians can seldom talk sense, according to your culture if someone is disliked than he is master of all evils and if someone is liked by the masses, then he is god or next to god.

Allama Iqbal didnt write that he ENJOYED Ayaz as U are making it to be. He was sensible enough unlike someone not to use obscene language. But he Indicated in one of his verse that there was some unusual relation between them. Here is the verse from Bang E Dra U are looking for.

Na Woh Ishq Me RahiN GarmiyaaN Na Woh Husn Me RahiN ShokhiyaaN

Na Woh Gaznawi Me Tadap Rahi Na Woh Kham Hai Zulf E Ayaaz Me.

I think that U should wake up talking childish remarks like U Indians or U hindus. I can see in ur this post that my prayers for U are working Alhamdullillah. I will pray even more for U so that U start talking nicely to all humans including Indians and Hindus.

[QUOTE]
Brutal or not, these kind of things does not make any ruler good or bad, if a rulers prays five time, fast all year long and does not do his duty, then he can be classified as one of the worst leader/ruler... same applies here, i am not interested in the Aurangzaib Alamger but i do like his tenure.. and thats what matter the most...

[/QUOTE]

See my dear brother, I m not interested in Aurangzaib either, I just added two names that I thought should be included in Pakistan's list of role-modles. Why that left U fuming profously is amazing to me. I repeat I have absolutely no problem who U make ur icon. If U are comfortable with ppls like them than who the hell am I to object?

[QUOTE]

*The verse it self says it all ( as you are mentioning that one was gay and other was brutal) please read the last part.. *

Allah have blessed both of them, Both of them have earned respect of Muslims, Mehmood have been acknowledged as one of the finest Generals of the History, Aurangzaib Alamgeer, is still known as the strong pillar of Great Mughal Empire of India...

[/QUOTE]

LOL at ur logics brother, Allah has blessed them coz they both hold considerable acknowledgement? Let me see how ALLAH deal with them on the day of judgement, I m sure that their sins of brutality, murders, jailing of father, and homosexuality will not be forgiven by ALLAH. Till than U are welcome to follow their footsteps.

**
[QUOTE]
*But as i have said earlier, because you don't like them, you will make them reason of all evils on the planet... *
[/QUOTE]
**
[QUOTE]

[/QUOTE]

U seem to have made it a habit of saying wrong things, so I cant help. I again repeat, I only said about ur icons that one was brutal to his own brother and his father, U seem to be in agreement, still consider him worthy of role modle. Absolutely ur choice and U are entitled to it. Another one was a gay according to a very respectable Personality of our Nations. Now what they did to kuffar hindus is secondry matter and I m not going to talk about them. Because I know ur obvious views about their heroics.

[QUOTE]

The wife kidnapped and then it took years to get her back, i understand if this happens to a common man, but to a ruler and divine god of his time, what hept him waiting for years? fear of other king or maybe he was tired of his wife and was thinking sending a Thankyou note to the Rawand the King of Lanka...

I don't know how you can defend steeling habit of a small child... and what about steeling women cloth, aint he was teenager then? anyway its your choice whom you want to worship.. a coward or a theif....

[/QUOTE]

Brother I m not gonna explain to U anything in this subject. But will remind the teachings of ur own religion which says that U are not allowed to criticise any religious personality of any religion but present ur own religion in most gracious ways. Now I m amazed by ur love with ur high-moral icons which prompts U to forget even what ALLAH's guidence are.

Compare urself with those bigots who slander the holy prophet and other respectable personalities of Islam. Plz let me know what is the result of ur comparision.

[QUOTE]

You don't have to nor is requried by you, I have enough people to pray for me, i do not look forward to a back-stabber to pray for me...

[/QUOTE]

back-stabber? lol thats a good one too. I m sure that U have many more in ur decent vocab. But U can compare ur present post to ur earlier ones, U can see my prayers working and filth disappearing from ur posts. So I m gonna pray for U brother. Nothing to worry, ALLAH will definetely show U the right path AMEEN.

Peace.

[hanibal]

Allama Iqbal didnt write that he ENJOYED Ayaz as U are making it to be. He was sensible enough unlike someone not to use obscene language. But he Indicated in one of his verse that there was some unusual relation between them. Here is the verse from Bang E Dra U are looking for.

Na Woh Ishq Me RahiN GarmiyaaN Na Woh Husn Me RahiN ShokhiyaaN

Na Woh Gaznawi Me Tadap Rahi Na Woh Kham Hai Zulf E Ayaaz Me.

I think that U should wake up talking childish remarks like U Indians or U hindus. I can see in ur this post that my prayers for U are working Alhamdullillah. I will pray even more for U so that U start talking nicely to all humans including Indians and Hindus.

And from this verse, you have concluded that Mehmood Ghaznavi was a gay.. NOW things i said about U Indians and U Hindus were correct isn't it.. your hate against Mehmood have actually turned the meaning of this verse
Below is the complete Ghazal, from where you have taken this verse and concluded him as a Gay ( again because you Indians hate him)

Kabhi aay Haqeeqat-e-Muntazir, nazr aa Libas-e-Mijaz maiN
Keh HazarooN Sajday TaRap rahay haiN meri Jabeen-e-Nayaaz maiN

Tarb Ashna-e-Kharoosh ho, tu nwa hay mahrim-e-Gosh hu
woh Sarood kiya ju chupa howa ho sakoot-e-parda saaz maiN

tu bacha bacha kay na rakh issay, tera ayena hay woh ayena
keh shakista ho tu aziz ter hay nigah-e-Ayena Saaz maiN

dam-e-toof karmak-e-shama nay yeh kaha keh woh asr-e-kahn
na teri hikayat-e-sooz maiN, na meri hadees-e-gudaz maiN

Na kaheeN jahaaN maiN AmaaN mili, ju AmaaN mili tu kahaaN mili
meray jurm-e-khana kharab ko teray afu-e-band nawaz maiN
**
Na woh Ishq maiN raheeN germiyaaN, na woh husn maiN raheeN shokhiyaaN
na woh ghazanvi maiN tarp rahee, na woh kham hay zulf-e-Ayaaz maiN **

Ju maiN Sar'basajda howa kabhi tu zameeN say aanay lagi sada
tera dil tu sanam Aashna hay, tujhay kiya mila ga namaz maiN

Now read the ghazal ( which i hope you have red it) and try to understand what message poet is trying to convey!!!! i know you will still stand that Mehmood was gay because Iqbal say so ( and i don't know which Iqbal, as Illama Iqbal has never said so).. but what to accept from an biased hindu Indian...

See my dear brother, I m not interested in Aurangzaib either, I just added two names that I thought should be included in Pakistan's list of role-modles. Why that left U fuming profously is amazing to me. I repeat I have absolutely no problem who U make ur icon. If U are comfortable with ppls like them than who the hell am I to object?

So, when it Pakistan's role model, why are u putting your views, u can keep it to urself or atmost convey to other Indians and hindus of ur type.. we have no problem with that...

LOL at ur logics brother, Allah has blessed them coz they both hold considerable acknowledgement? Let me see how ALLAH deal with them on the day of judgement, I m sure that their sins of brutality, murders, jailing of father, and homosexuality will not be forgiven by ALLAH. Till than U are welcome to follow their footsteps.

No body knows that how they gonna be dealt on the day of judgement, Nor Shah Jahaan who wasted millions for building tomb of his wife and later cutting hands/killing the engineers and architects of the same.. which to me is far more brutal... Now again homosexulality is according to you and you have totally fail to back your allegation with any substantial eveidence.. so how do you think the sin of false allegations are treated in Hinduism... oh yes i remember if it is done by a hindu of upper caste and it is against a lower caste hindu or non-muslim it is not even considered a crime...

U seem to have made it a habit of saying wrong things, so I cant help. I again repeat, I only said about ur icons that one was brutal to his own brother and his father, U seem to be in agreement, still consider him worthy of role modle. Absolutely ur choice and U are entitled to it. Another one was a gay according to a very respectable Personality of our Nations. Now what they did to kuffar hindus is secondry matter and I m not going to talk about them. Because I know ur obvious views about their heroics.

I have same views about u, so far, you have all false allegation may be creating of some hindu/indian historian which you are trying to prove through the poetry of Iqbal, Means, one is gay because you hindus hate him and will go to the last corner of the world to raise your voice... wait a minute same techinque is used by the propoganda news channels of your, repeat the lie again and again... you misreable liar now that your lie about Mehmood Ghaznavi have exposed i am sure you are DHEAT enough to come up with a new one or may continue to believe this.. after all this is what INDIAN and HINDUS are good at...

Brother I m not gonna explain to U anything in this subject. But will remind the teachings of ur own religion which says that U are not allowed to criticise any religious personality of any religion but present ur own religion in most gracious ways. Now I m amazed by ur love with ur high-moral icons which prompts U to forget even what ALLAH's guidence are.

So when it comes to your gods it is not allowed to criticize a teenager who used to steal the clothes of bathing damsels... but you feel comfortable on putting forward a baseless allegation on the heroes of other nation, is that what Hinduvata teaches you.. You HINDUS are munh maiN RAM RAM, BAGHAL MaiN Churi and you are example of the same...

Compare urself with those bigots who slander the holy prophet and other respectable personalities of Islam. Plz let me know what is the result of ur comparision.

I wonder how Did our Holy Prophet (PBUH) came into the picture, you were asked to provide ref. about ur claim, you failed to do so, putting a verse which is not even remotely connected with the allegation you made.. I am hundred time better than those bigots ( consider urself one), as Mehmood Ghaznavi is one of the respectable personalities of Islamic History and bigots like you are putting up false allegation on them, and when asked for ref. you put up that verse.. this is what a HINDU do when his lie is exposed..

back-stabber? lol thats a good one too. I m sure that U have many more in ur decent vocab. But U can compare ur present post to ur earlier ones, U can see my prayers working and filth disappearing from ur posts. So I m gonna pray for U brother. Nothing to worry, ALLAH will definetely show U the right path AMEEN.

No it is not you, it is the moderators who edits the post, now please tell me, why you hindu worship a guy who use to steal clothes of women and is it allow in your religion to follow his sunnah ( i hope you are aware of the word Sunnah)

No Peace with Hindu