Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Polygamy: Investigation into how Muslim men can exploit UK benefits system | Mail Online
The number of polygamists in the UK is 20 000 and increasing
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
I've actually read the above before. If you have access to a data base through your university or workplace, you will find more studies conducted outside of the western scope. I remember finding quite a few from Malaysia.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Young women are more promiscuous than men, according to a survey that claims the average 21-year-old has had nine sexual partners compared with seven for men.
The poll of 2,000 by the magazine More also found that one in four young women has slept with more than 10 people, compared with one in five men who had done the same.
In addition, half of those questioned admitted they had been unfaithful, whereas only a quarter said they had been cheated on by a boyfriend.
It comes just a week after an academic study branded Britain one of the casual sex capitals of the Western world, with residents having more one-night stands and more liberal attitudes than those in Australia, France, the Netherlands, Italy and the US.
Lisa Smosarski, the editor of More, said: "Our results show that after decades of lying back and thinking of England, today's twenty-something women are taking control of their sex lives and getting what they want in bed."
The magazine's survey found that few young women today hold to traditional views on sexual morality.
Just 1 per cent of young women said they would want to get married before having sex, with the majority losing their virginity at 16.
More than half said they were not in love with their first partner, and only one in three believe it is important to be in love with someone before going to bed with them.
Seven out of 10 said they had had a one-night stand, with a fifth admitting to having had more than five casual encounters.
In addition, 60 per cent said they would be prepared to do a "kiss-and-tell", and would sell their account of a one-night-stand with a famous person for £20,000.
Four out of 10 said they would marry for money or sleep with their boss if it meant they would get promoted, while a quarter would have an affair with a married man.
The survey also found young women are taking "huge risks" with their health, with 38 per cent not using a condom with a new partner and 16 per cent having contracted a sexually transmitted disease.
However the respondents still claimed they are not having as much sex as they would like, with 13 per cent claiming their love life is "disappointing" and a further 10 per cent calling it "non-existent".
According to the survey, the average young woman has sex three times a week but would prefer to do it five times.
Paradoxical isnt it ? Despite the oh so many risks they face namely slut shaming, pregnancy, STD's and sexual assault; the average woman is having more fun than the average male.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Where does it say that the average woman is having more fun than the average man? It takes two to tango.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Ahh, I see it now:
*The poll of 2,000 by the magazine More also found that one in four young women has slept with more than 10 people, compared with one in five men who had done the same.
*Though, I'm not sure what this has to do with the marriage contract?
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Firstly I didn't say write a high haq mahr. My mistake. I didn't write the word 'don't' again.
okay cleared, there should be no insane amount of Mahr.
Why shouldn't women take the right of divorce. Do you know how legally and financially hard it is for a Muslim woman in many countries to get Khula?
The womens' right to divorce should be a trend in the society not a hypocritical approach where one denies the same right to his wife, but when its his daughters' time, he insists over it or when a brother denies the same right to his wife but asks for his sister. It should be a trend not pick'n'choose.
Also its not about legal and financial hardships but also social aspects for a Muslim Woman. The family of the woman is the first culprit who encourage their daughters/sisters to keep suffering and do not go for Khula? Who stops a woman to become financially independent, is it the husband or the father who educates his daughters but never allows them to be financially independent and become a responsible citizen?
Legal and financial hardships count for nothing when women have to face social hatred, stigma and in some case even boycott when they come out against their husbands. We need to change the social behavior first before we cover legal and financial issues.
If u don't believe that the women of the Islamic Golden Age stipulated this in the Nikahnamas, then please google it and search up old Nikahnamas. its in Arabic. Enjoy.
Why on earth I would dig up old Nikahnamas, when I have a new one agreed by my govt. provable in the court of law, agreed by Islamic scholars of various school of thought. And Muslim womens' life has become easier after these additions or not? I leave this to you to decide.
And this is quoted from Islam Qa
If the wife stipulates that her husband should not take another wife, this is a valid condition and he must adhere to it; if he does take another wife, she has the right to annul the marriage contract.
No one is denying the womens' right to annul the marriage contract when a certain condition is not fulfilled. The issue is whether such precondition has a legal binding on the man on second marriage or not. It is clear from the answer that NO it is not a legal binding. Its a moral obligation rather than a legal one, man can still go for second marriage (you can call it immoral, because he agreed not to do 2nd marriage) but there is no way to stop him. The woman has the right to ask for termination of her marriage contract, but no one can stop her husband from 2nd marriage.
Your original post gave the impression that this condition has legal binding and man can be stopped from 2nd marriage.
And are men so polygamous that they will turn to zina if they don't get a second wife. FALSE!!!!!!!
No one is saying that men are so polygamous, I clarified this in the last lines of my earlier reply.
If anyone actually reads up the statistics that in the West men have an average of 13 partners and women have 9. the cheating rate for men is 70% and for women its 50-60%(also remember that statistics show women are less likely to admit to cheating and the rate of female cheaters is fast going up).
So are women and men really polygamous or monogamous?
I think the common excuse about men being polygamous goes out the window here.women can also be polygamous, its just that society has allowed the expression of male desires but restricted the female in The eastern world. Otherwise women are really no different from men in nature.
So according to these statistics should men also put a clause in Nikahnama, that the bride should not become polygamous after marriage? Because 50/60% ratio is scary. In that case what should be my demands as a husband?
There is no perfect life and no perfect marriage scenario. So we should not make effort in trying to create one, its a waste of time, emotions and creates more complexities than perfection. I think it would be a bad omen to start marriage planning with the fact that your future husband/wife is likely to have an affair or live a polygamous life and start putting up conditions beforehand.
Yes bad things happen, not in marriage but in every aspect of life. Statistics show that world wide millions are killed in vehicle related accidents, should I start waiting for a perfect car that will save my life in any eventuality? NO I will continue driving same old car hoping that I will be safe.
You need few social changes on a massive scale to make life easier for women who get into trouble after marriage. Putting up clauses or preconditions before Nikah is not one of them. It has not worked so far and in my view it never will.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
okay cleared, there should be no insane amount of Mahr.
The womens' right to divorce should be a trend in the society not a hypocritical approach where one denies the same right to his wife, but when its his daughters' time, he insists over it or when a brother denies the same right to his wife but asks for his sister. It should be a trend not pick'n'choose.
Also its not about legal and financial hardships but also social aspects for a Muslim Woman. The family of the woman is the first culprit who encourage their daughters/sisters to keep suffering and do not go for Khula? Who stops a woman to become financially independent, is it the husband or the father who educates his daughters but never allows them to be financially independent and become a responsible citizen?
Legal and financial hardships count for nothing when women have to face social hatred, stigma and in some case even boycott when they come out against their husbands. We need to change the social behavior first before we cover legal and financial issues.
Why on earth I would dig up old Nikahnamas, when I have a new one agreed by my govt. provable in the court of law, agreed by Islamic scholars of various school of thought. And Muslim womens' life has become easier after these additions or not? I leave this to you to decide.
No one is denying the womens' right to annul the marriage contract when a certain condition is not fulfilled. The issue is whether such precondition has a legal binding on the man on second marriage or not. It is clear from the answer that NO it is not a legal binding. Its a moral obligation rather than a legal one, man can still go for second marriage (you can call it immoral, because he agreed not to do 2nd marriage) but there is no way to stop him. The woman has the right to ask for termination of her marriage contract, but no one can stop her husband from 2nd marriage.
Your original post gave the impression that this condition has legal binding and man can be stopped from 2nd marriage.
No one is saying that men are so polygamous, I clarified this in the last lines of my earlier reply.
So according to these statistics should men also put a clause in Nikahnama, that the bride should not become polygamous after marriage? Because 50/60% ratio is scary. In that case what should be my demands as a husband?
There is no perfect life and no perfect marriage scenario. So we should not make effort in trying to create one, its a waste of time, emotions and creates more complexities than perfection. I think it would be a bad omen to start marriage planning with the fact that your future husband/wife is likely to have an affair or live a polygamous life and start putting up conditions beforehand.
Yes bad things happen, not in marriage but in every aspect of life. Statistics show that world wide millions are killed in vehicle related accidents, should I start waiting for a perfect car that will save my life in any eventuality? NO I will continue driving same old car hoping that I will be safe.
You need few social changes on a massive scale to make life easier for women who get into trouble after marriage. Putting up clauses or preconditions before Nikah is not one of them. It has not worked so far and in my view it never will.
Yes it is Islamically binding for a man to obey the clause if the wife stipulates that he not take a second wife. If he STILL marries another woman then he is classified as a faasiq (transgressor) and sinner according to Islamic Law.
So yeah a man is Islamically obliged to honour the clause and not break it.
We all know that in Islam it is a man's right to shift and accommodate his wife wherever he wants, just as it is a man's right to take 4 wives, BUT if a woman stipulates conditions against this in the Nikah contract, the husband is obliged to obey if he agrees to this during the Nikah. He would be sinning if he doesn't obey and the woman can annul the marriage straight away.
A man once came to Umar(ra) and said he wanted to move his wofe somewhere(islamically this is his right) but his wife had stipulated against this in the Nikah contract and Umar(ra) told the man he is obliged to obey the woman's clause stipulated in the Nikah in which he accepted the. Clause.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
There are no such things as omens in Islam. And an akalmand would be careful when he comes to the Nikah contract and should stipulate conditions on their interest.
You as a man can also stipulate conditions in the Nikah contract in your interest. For example in Sharia it is not the woman's duty to do the chores. But you as the husband can stipulate that she do the chores.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Ahh, I see it now:
*The poll of 2,000 by the magazine More also found that one in four young women has slept with more than 10 people, compared with one in five men who had done the same.
*Though, I'm not sure what this has to do with the marriage contract?
Here I was simply trying to prove that using cheating and number of partners statistics are silly to prove that a man by nature is polygamous. Some people justify polygamy by saying a man by nature will have a lot of partners. Here I am proving that this is not the case. Women can also be polygamous by nature.
Therefore we should stop using fake arguments to justify polygamy.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
okay cleared, there should be no insane amount of Mahr.
I believe that it's a personal matter, between the man and woman.
[QUOTE]
The womens' right to divorce should be a trend in the society not a hypocritical approach where one denies the same right to his wife, but when its his daughters' time, he insists over it or when a brother denies the same right to his wife but asks for his sister. It should be a trend not pick'n'choose.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, it should be a trend that sticks within all circumstances, which leads us to the question as to "Why isn't is the current trend?" Women and men should have an equal approach to divorce.
[QUOTE]
Also its not about legal and financial hardships but also social aspects for a Muslim Woman. The family of the woman is the first culprit who encourage their daughters/sisters to keep suffering and do not go for Khula? Who stops a woman to become financially independent, is it the husband or the father who educates his daughters but never allows them to be financially independent and become a responsible citizen?
[/QUOTE]
Khula is expensive but is also a very lengthy process. The woman is required to present her case in front of a court, and they make the decision as to whether she can acquire the divorce. However, the man can simply utter a few words, and receive the divorce. This is a stumbling block for many women out there. The Quran outlines the divorce process very simply, yet does not promote this injustice at all.
[QUOTE]
Legal and financial hardships count for nothing when women have to face social hatred, stigma and in some case even boycott when they come out against their husbands. We need to change the social behavior first before we cover legal and financial issues.
[/QUOTE]
We need to change the laws first. We need to restudy the laws and make sure what we're doing is correct. The laws are the basis for our behavior down the road.
[QUOTE]
Why on earth I would dig up old Nikahnamas, when I have a new one agreed by my govt. provable in the court of law, agreed by Islamic scholars of various school of thought. And Muslim womens' life has become easier after these additions or not? I leave this to you to decide.
[/QUOTE]
It's an evolution of sorts. Amendments are made to the nikah documents periodically, which means it's a work in progress. One set document does not set the precedent for the future.
[QUOTE]
No one is denying the womens' right to annul the marriage contract when a certain condition is not fulfilled. The issue is whether such precondition has a legal binding on the man on second marriage or not. It is clear from the answer that NO it is not a legal binding. Its a moral obligation rather than a legal one, man can still go for second marriage (you can call it immoral, because he agreed not to do 2nd marriage) but there is no way to stop him. The woman has the right to ask for termination of her marriage contract, but no one can stop her husband from 2nd marriage.
Your original post gave the impression that this condition has legal binding and man can be stopped from 2nd marriage.
[/QUOTE]
Indeed, he can make that particular oath within the contract. The rationale being that polygamy is not something that women are compelled to live. Please find the verses in the Quran that say that accepting polygamy is a mandate on women. Where does it say that men can behave as they please, with total disregard for their wife's lifestyle of choice? The verse revolving around polygamy deals with assisting and caring for orphans. Please read Chapter 4 again.
[QUOTE]
No one is saying that men are so polygamous, I clarified this in the last lines of my earlier reply.
[/QUOTE]
Often men are not polygamous these days because of laws that prevent them from being so. Polygamy can lead to major financial hardships and strains in family relations, if the idea was not planned out carefully with full cooperation from all parties.
[QUOTE]
So according to these statistics should men also put a clause in Nikahnama, that the bride should not become polygamous after marriage? Because 50/60% ratio is scary. In that case what should be my demands as a husband?
[/QUOTE]
Polyandry is forbidden. We are to be called upon by our father's name. Polyandry makes this quite difficult, as a result, it is forbidden in the Quran.
[QUOTE]
There is no perfect life and no perfect marriage scenario. So we should not make effort in trying to create one, its a waste of time, emotions and creates more complexities than perfection. I think it would be a bad omen to start marriage planning with the fact that your future husband/wife is likely to have an affair or live a polygamous life and start putting up conditions beforehand.
Yes bad things happen, not in marriage but in every aspect of life. Statistics show that world wide millions are killed in vehicle related accidents, should I start waiting for a perfect car that will save my life in any eventuality? NO I will continue driving same old car hoping that I will be safe.
You need few social changes on a massive scale to make life easier for women who get into trouble after marriage. Putting up clauses or preconditions before Nikah is not one of them. It has not worked so far and in my view it never will.
[/QUOTE]
Bad things happen, yes. However, it's better to be proactive than reactive in life. We still need to plan and set up realistic expectations of one another when going into a marriage. Are you a woman? If you are a man, then you have nothing to fear, as your wife will never resort to polygamy. It's forbidden. However, if you are a woman, then, the potential for polygamy to enter your life is possible. Stipulations are important within a marriage contract. They provide a road map and parameters for your marriage. This why they have been embraced from the very beginning of Islamic scholarship. Are you going to ride in a car? Wear a seat belt. You increase your chances of surviving the crash. This is mandated in most developed countries. Proactive as opposed to Reactive.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
okay cleared, there should be no insane amount of Mahr.
The womens' right to divorce should be a trend in the society not a hypocritical approach where one denies the same right to his wife, but when its his daughters' time, he insists over it or when a brother denies the same right to his wife but asks for his sister. It should be a trend not pick'n'choose.
Also its not about legal and financial hardships but also social aspects for a Muslim Woman. The family of the woman is the first culprit who encourage their daughters/sisters to keep suffering and do not go for Khula? Who stops a woman to become financially independent, is it the husband or the father who educates his daughters but never allows them to be financially independent and become a responsible citizen?
Legal and financial hardships count for nothing when women have to face social hatred, stigma and in some case even boycott when they come out against their husbands. We need to change the social behavior first before we cover legal and financial issues.
Why on earth I would dig up old Nikahnamas, when I have a new one agreed by my govt. provable in the court of law, agreed by Islamic scholars of various school of thought. And Muslim womens' life has become easier after these additions or not? I leave this to you to decide.
No one is denying the womens' right to annul the marriage contract when a certain condition is not fulfilled. The issue is whether such precondition has a legal binding on the man on second marriage or not. It is clear from the answer that NO it is not a legal binding. Its a moral obligation rather than a legal one, man can still go for second marriage (you can call it immoral, because he agreed not to do 2nd marriage) but there is no way to stop him. The woman has the right to ask for termination of her marriage contract, but no one can stop her husband from 2nd marriage.
Your original post gave the impression that this condition has legal binding and man can be stopped from 2nd marriage.
No one is saying that men are so polygamous, I clarified this in the last lines of my earlier reply.
So according to these statistics should men also put a clause in Nikahnama, that the bride should not become polygamous after marriage? Because 50/60% ratio is scary. In that case what should be my demands as a husband?
There is no perfect life and no perfect marriage scenario. So we should not make effort in trying to create one, its a waste of time, emotions and creates more complexities than perfection. I think it would be a bad omen to start marriage planning with the fact that your future husband/wife is likely to have an affair or live a polygamous life and start putting up conditions beforehand.
Yes bad things happen, not in marriage but in every aspect of life. Statistics show that world wide millions are killed in vehicle related accidents, should I start waiting for a perfect car that will save my life in any eventuality? NO I will continue driving same old car hoping that I will be safe.
You need few social changes on a massive scale to make life easier for women who get into trouble after marriage. Putting up clauses or preconditions before Nikah is not one of them. It has not worked so far and in my view it never will.
It hasn't worked because not many wome are even aware of their rights. How many women know that they can stipulate conditionsl in their interest in the Nikah?
Just imagine, with the right of Talaq a woman would be able to leave an abusive husband very easily without being hindered by the costs and time it takes for the Khula to be given.
lBack in theIslamic golden age days women did not have issues with polygamy simply because they would stipulate conditions in their favour, therefore they didn't have the drama that people have these days when a second wife is taken.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
^ Who says women are naturally monogamous? Sounds like a myth some men propagate to make themselves feel better.
In the west, the proportion of women who cheat is the same as that of men. Yet somehow infidelity is portrayed as a primarily male trait.
If womens infidelity in Muslim society is rare, its not because of womens nature or their moral superiority, its because of the potentially fatal consequences that deter them !
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Good points.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
^ Who says women are naturally monogamous? Sounds like a myth some men propagate to make themselves feel better. In the west, the proportion of women who cheat is the same as that of men. Yet somehow infidelity is portrayed as a primarily male trait.
If womens infidelity in Muslim society is rare, its not because of womens nature or their moral superiority, its because of the potentially fatal consequences that deter them !
There are women and men who opt for polygamy, and then there are women and men who opt for monogamy. The basis of this discussion is to respect personal choice in regard to one's basic civil rights.
Regardless of one's carnal desires, monogamy tends to be more cost effective and allows for fathers to spend more time (and energy on) with one set of children. Perhaps, this is why we see it propagated more so within western society?
The stipulations within the marriage contract protect the interests of both prospective spouses.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Yes it is Islamically binding for a man to obey the clause if the wife stipulates that he not take a second wife. If he STILL marries another woman then he is classified as a faasiq (transgressor) and sinner according to Islamic Law. So yeah a man is Islamically obliged to honour the clause and not break it. We all know that in Islam it is a man's right to shift and accommodate his wife wherever he wants, just as it is a man's right to take 4 wives, BUT if a woman stipulates conditions against this in the Nikah contract, the husband is obliged to obey if he agrees to this during the Nikah. He would be sinning if he doesn't obey and the woman can annul the marriage straight away.
A man once came to Umar(ra) and said he wanted to move his wofe somewhere(islamically this is his right) but his wife had stipulated against this in the Nikah contract and Umar(ra) told the man he is obliged to obey the woman's clause stipulated in the Nikah in which he accepted the. Clause.
We both are saying same thing, but my additional point is that the 2nd marriage cannot be stopped even if he has sinned.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
We both are saying same thing, but my additional point is that the 2nd marriage cannot be stopped even if he has sinned.
Well at least a God-fearing man would think twice before doing it.
And a woman would have the Islamic right to annul the marriage.
And a woman would not have to live with the pain knowing that what her husband did was Permissible in Islam.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
There are women and men who opt for polygamy, and then there are women and men who opt for monogamy. The basis of this discussion is to respect personal choice in regard to one's basic civil rights.
Regardless of one's carnal desires, monogamy tends to be more cost effective and allows for fathers to spend more time (and energy on) with one set of children. Perhaps, this is why we see it propagated more so within western society?
The stipulations within the marriage contract protect the interests of both prospective spouses.
The sad fact is, more often than not the wives(especially the first) are forced into it. That is why I am supporting women's awareness of THEIR rights in Islam, though I am male.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
It hasn't worked because not many wome are even aware of their rights. How many women know that they can stipulate conditionsl in their interest in the Nikah?
This basically boils down to the fact that we need to educate more people and give them unbiased information to make them aware of their rights in all aspects of life. This has been the tragedy of the Muslim world.
Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama
Agreed. This was just my attempt to educate Muslimahs of their rights in Islam.