A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Lifestyle Relationships
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A few tips.

  1. Please don’t act foolish and ask of an extremely high mahr
  2. Don’t do other obviously silly things.
  3. Please DO consider taking the right of divorce. God forbid if you end up in an abusive relationship, Khula will be REALLY hard
  4. Considering the rising rates of men becoming polygamous(often after cheating on their wife first) I would recommend writing down the no second marriage clause, UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY TO LIVE IN A POLYGAMOUS RELATIONSHIP

Many many women don’t bother about this, especially the last two points and end up suffering. Women in abusive relationships will find it hard to get divorce in an Islamic way.

And many women who don’t want to live in polygyny think that as polygyny is so uncommon they won’t face a situation. BUT SOME WILL. I have read many horror stories of women being forced to accept their husbands second marriages which are increasing at an alarming rate, especially in the UK and USA, where the are currently 20 000 and 50 000 men respectively engaging in it, many of them against the first wife’s will. Many such cases were avoidable had the woman used her brain and rights in the Nikah.

a man does not need permission to remarry, so this is your ONLY legal protection.

The two major clauses that i find in nikkah contracts during the Middle Ages and Ottoman Empire were stipulation of maintenance ( obligation to live with the in-laws or obligation to have one specific house-type) and no second wife taken.

I believe that anyone can read up nikkah agreements in proeminents libraries, enjoy it is in Arabic, you just need to sign up. Google it

Sisters, IF illiterate women 500 years ago put the no second marriage clause in their marriage contracts with their husbands, then why not the educated Muslim women of this century(the women who don’t want to be in polygamy)?

Hadhrat Huseyn(ra)'s favourite daughter, Sakina is also known to have inserted this clause. And Zaynab(ra) and Fatima(ra) also seemed to have prior agreements with their husbands that they would not engage in polygamy.

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

:hmmm: You need to research well about Islam before making such claims

I’m afraid this will lead to controversial discussion, if anyone from Fiqah e Jafria visit this thread. Moreover, if polygamy is allowed by Allah in Quran, who are we to put clauses in Nikahnama to avoid this

PS: I personally don’t support polygamy, unless there are no other options.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Would you mind elaborating on what other "obviously silly things" women do?

On what basis are you making that statement in bold? Are there any statistics that has shown that polygamy is on the rise? Is this in a particular country or all over the world?

Any links to the statement in bold? Also, the 20,000-50,000 men, are these Muslim men or men of all religions?

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Agree with your points, however, I do have to add something. Regarding points 3 and 4, in the society that we live in, the woman pretty much only sees her nikkahnama when she has to sign it. All the other decisions are made for her (this includes the amount of haq mehr). She genuinely doesn’t have a say in any of the clauses. The molvi sahab takes the liberty to cross through pretty much the entire page 2 of the nikahnama where all these conditions are stipulated. Therefore you can’t just blatanly blame the women for not taking their lives in control. When she is allowed to tick mark the relevant boxes herself, then you can say please do what the women in the old times did.

No offence, but that is not a clause that we are adding to the nikahnama. It is already added in the nikahnama. And in very convulated language, that only an MA Urdu pass can translate, I might add. Case in point (someone posted his nikahnama on flickr, in case there are some debates over this isn’t the true copy)

ABID HUSSAIN WITH MAQSOODA NIKAH NAMA SECOND PAGE A 013 | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

As you can see, questions 18-22 are questions that the OP is talking about, or has to do with the guy’s previous marriage. Those are questions technically the bride should be answering, or the the first wife should be answering. But it doesn’t happen. The molvi took his pen and crossed it out, as if that isn’t relevant. Now my Urdu isn’t perfect, but from my understanding question 18 and 19 are specifically about rights of divorce. And question 20 is probably about any other added guidelines/requests. (I would like question 20 to be translated to normal English please though. Just so I can stand corrected).

Nikahnama is a marriage contract. That has to be remembered. It isn’t just a paper that you sign, symbolizing you are married. It is something that has to be understood to be filled out. And just like any other contract, you can amend it any way you want. Unfortunately that does not happen, and so a lot of the rights are simply thrown out the window.

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

you are right that the language is difficult for common men to understand, but it doesn’t mention in clause 22 that a bride got right to restrict his would-be husband from second marriage. Its seems that clause 22 is about whether the permission groom got permission / consent from first wife for second marriage. You can understand that both these things are different

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

thing is clause or no clause if my husband wants a second wife the fact that he WANTs is enough and il let him go. how can u stop someonenwanting to marry again. its about feelings not contracts

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

It says permission from Salsi council not first wife.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

yes exactly and I heard that some scholars say that you need to inform first wife before second marriage.. Salsi is third party and the first and second parties are husband and his first wife

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Well, the OPs **1st point **encourages you and your family to become gold digger! Its funny how OP wants to follow his favorite 'Islamic' way of women's right but fails to follow 'Islam' when it comes to Mahr. :D

Haq Mahr is something that should be decided by the both families taking into account the financial conditions of the groom and should be paid during the nikah. High amount of Mahr is no guarantee of a successful marriage or not finding an abusive husband.

Mahr is just a token money that symbolizes the fact that from now on the financial expenses of the bride will be taken care of by her husband and to make that intention clear some reasonable amount is given to the bride. But our society tries to enter in to a transactional type of relationship by using huge Mahr amount as a basis of good marriage... 'pamper my daughter throughout and she might forgive you Mehr when you are on your death bed'... and this thinking takes away the spirit of the marriage.

2nd point fails to elaborate on silly things.. I hope OP means being 'bridezilla' and the stupid 'joota chupaye' type of rasams.

3rd point is not encouraged even by the men folk of the bride. Will a brother/father advise his sister/daughter to take the right of divorce when he himself refused to allow during his time? In fact the bride should ask first this to her father/brother whether they allowed her mother/bhabhi the same right? If not then they should remain silent.

4th point is without any evidence... few incidents do not make trend. A polygamous relationship is allowed by Islam...even then its not a trend in our societies... majority of the men do not look for 2nd marriage.

I highly doubt that so called illiterate women of 500 years ago put a legal clause to stop a man from 2nd marriage. If the Qur'an says that up to 4 marriages are allowed, then mere mortals do not have authority to put any restriction to it. Calling people who lived 500 years ago as 'illiterate' is illiteracy in itself. And how can you stop someone from marrying again, wouldn't it encourage 'zinnah'?

The clauses 21 & 22 in the official Nikah nama are for 2nd marriage and do not apply when man is getting married for first time. So there is no need to fill them and they should be crossed out when man is getting married for the first time.

Marriage is a contract in which both man and woman agree to adhere to certain roles and fulfill their duties as husband and wife. Anyone who fails to fulfill their duties will create trouble and encourage other partner to look for alternatives. In our society women are not encouraged to look for alternatives while men can do so relatively easily. Now this does NOT mean that every married man out there is looking for a cheating opportunity and will strike a marriage for lust or just for the sake of it.

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Polygamy is allowed in the Quran. true

But a woman is also allowed to stipulate that her husband not take a second wife and the husband is obliged to follow this condition.

Islam Question and Answer - If she stipulated that he should not take another wife, does he have to adhere to that?

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Silly things that often involve financially exhaustive clauses, that make it hard financially for the husbands.

Read these links:
BBC News - The British Muslim men who love ‘both their wives’

And yes the numbers are Muslims.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Firstly I didn't say write a high haq mahr. My mistake. I didn't write the word 'don't' again.

Why shouldn't women take the right of divorce. Do you know how legally and financially hard it is for a Muslim woman in many countries to get Khula?

Actually there are big trends going on in the UK and USA.

If u don't believe that the women of the Islamic Golden Age stipulated this in the Nikahnamas, then please google it and search up old Nikahnamas. its in Arabic. Enjoy.

And this is quoted from Islam Qa

If the wife stipulates that her husband should not take another wife, this is a valid condition and he must adhere to it; if he does take another wife, she has the right to annul the marriage contract.

That is because of the report narrated by al-Bukhaari (2721) and Muslim (1418), that the Messenger of Allah (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The conditions that are most deserving to be fulfilled are those by means of which intimacy becomes permissible for you.”

And because he (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The Muslims are bound by their conditions, except a condition that makes something permissible forbidden or makes something forbidden permissible.”

Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (1352) and Abu Dawood (3594). It was classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Tirmidhi.

This condition does not make something permissible forbidden; rather it restricts the man’s power and gives the wife the right to annul the marriage. Such conditions were made at the time of the Sahaabah (may Allah be pleased with them).

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah (may Allah have mercy on him) was asked about a man who married a woman, and she stipulated that he should not take another wife or make her move from her home, and that she could live with her mother, and he went ahead (with the marriage) on that basis. Is he obliged to adhere to that, and if he goes against these conditions, does the wife have the right to annul the marriage or not?

He replied: Yes, these conditions and similar ones are valid according to the madhhab of Imam Ahmad and others among the Sahaabah and Taabi‘een, such as ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab, ‘Amr ibn al-‘Aas, Shurayh al-Qaadi, al-Awzaa‘i and Ishaaq. The view of Maalik is that if she stipulates that if he takes another wife or takes a concubine, she has the right to decide [whether to stay married to him or not], then this condition is also valid, and the woman has the right to leave him. This is similar to the view of Ahmad. That is because of the report narrated by [al-Bukhaari and Muslim] in al-Saheehayn, that the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “The conditions that are most deserving to be fulfilled are those by means of which intimacy becomes permissible for you.” And ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab said: “Rights are connected to conditions.” So the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) made that by which of means intimacy becomes permissible more deserving of being fulfilled than anything else.

End quote from al-Fataawa al-Kubra, 3/90.

Secondly:

These conditions only apply if they are agreed upon at the time of the marriage contract. If they occur after the marriage contract has been done, they are a promise and do not give the wife the right to annul the marriage, but the husband has to fulfil his promise, because of the general meaning of the evidence that enjoins fulfilling promises, such as the verse in which Allah says (interpretation of the meaning): “And fulfil (every) covenant. Verily, the covenant will be questioned about” [al-Isra’ 17:34] and the words of the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him), “Guarantee me six things and I will guarantee Paradise to you: be truthful when you speak, fulfil it when you make a promise, render back if you are entrusted with something, guard your chastity, lower your gaze and restrain your hands (i.e., do not harm others).” Narrated by Ahmad (2225); classed as hasan by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami‘ (no. 1018), and because breaking promises is one of the attributes of the hypocrites.

-Islam QA

And are men so polygamous that they will turn to zina if they don't get a second wife. FALSE!!!!!!!

If anyone actually reads up the statistics that in the West men have an average of 13 partners and women have 9. the cheating rate for men is 70% and for women its 50-60%(also remember that statistics show women are less likely to admit to cheating and the rate of female cheaters is fast going up).

So are women and men really polygamous or monogamous?

I think the common excuse about men being polygamous goes out the window here.women can also be polygamous, its just that society has allowed the expression of male desires but restricted the female in The eastern world. Otherwise women are really no different from men in nature.

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

  1. The article is mostly “stories” without any hardcore FACTS. 1 single lecturer of Islamic law at the UK sharia center shared his personal opinion/experience regarding polygamy. Great! But based on what FACTS are you making that statement that polygamy is on the rise?

  2. This article is about British Muslims. You made a statement that polygamy is on the rise in the U.S. too. What FACTS lead you to include U.S. in your original post?

  3. The article actually states “It is not known exactly how many British Muslims are involved in polygamous marriages”. So I ask once again…where did you get the 20,000-50,000 numbers from? And you’re now saying that these numbers represent Muslim men. I would love for you to provide to link to the site which lead you make this claim.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Since you have put in the time and effort to find and read up on these statistics.........why not put in just a bit more time/effort and post the link here?

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Salam.

I assume that my post is going to ruffle a few feathers.

Dear Insaaniyat, I think you've given some wonderful advise to the ladies here. Don't not be deterred.

One thing that I would like to suggest is: Open up Chapter 4 of the Quran, and read it please. If you read it carefully (and without the input of others), you'll come to know that polygamy is referenced in regard to caring for orphaned children. Polygamy has nothing to do with carnal desires. Check the Arabic grammar, lexicons, etc. Your have a responsibility in doing this, because you carry the responsibility to understand the Text for yourself. It is the responsibility of every Muslim to verify what they are told.

Ladies,
You are not compelled to accept polygamy (even marriage in itself against your will) against your will. A successful marriage is one where joint decisions are made, and it is absolutely selfish and unjust for your spouse to make such an impacting decision without your permission let alone cooperation.

Remember, some of you live in countries that do not recognize polygamous marriage. They criminalize it and categorize it as "bigamy". So, you are protected, in the case that you do not wish for such a marriage. However, it's always better to plan ahead and incorporate the stipulation of monogamy in your contract, if that is indeed the lifestyle of your preference.

Nowhere in the Quran does it say that men are entitled to more than one wife. The permission is given under very specific circumstances. "If you fear for the orphans". How many of us really fear for the orphans, or are we just looking for pleasure from one more than one spouse?

Ladies, be smart. You must speak up for what you want, and do not feel that your preferences and needs are meant to be overlooked.

*Monogamy does not encourage adultery or fornication. There are no stats on this. Sorry, but that study has not been done. Nor, can this hypothesis be found in the Quran. If Allah swt has not said it, then it's all just conjecture created by mankind.
*
Another thing,

The logical and smart thing to do would be to READ your marriage contract prior to signing it. READ IT, UNDERSTAND IT, and then ADHERE TO IT. Remember, we are to abide by our oaths. How can you abide by your oath if you do not even understand what is in your marriage contract. Make sure the contract is translated to the language that your are proficient or fluent in. DO NOT sign blindly.

Your mahr is a personal matter.

The right of divorce is a disputed matter within the schools and sects. A topic for another day. If you live in a country where you cannot divorce in the same method as your spouse, then please do secure your right to do so. Allah swt will give us many tests in life, and sometimes a deeply troubled marriage is one of those many hurdles.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

My advice on the second marriage clause for women is only so that they can make an informed choice before marriage. Often what happens is that a man has an affair with the 'other woman' and marries her later, giving the wife little authority to do anything as Islamically speaking her husband was 'allowed' to marry her.
You hear a lot of such cases amongst Muslim couples.

We didn't hear this centuries ago in the Islamic world because those women who didn't want to share their husbands would make sure they stipulate this and women who had no bones about being in polygamy wouldn't stipulate it. So that cleanly solves the problem. If you hate polygamy, stipulate the no second marriage clause. if you don't hate it, then don't stipulate it. its as easy as that.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

There were other sources. I'll look it up.

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Thank you! It's great for us to share our opinions and thoughts.....but anytime we end up posting information as facts, I believe it's always best to provide the sources for those facts so that everyone reading the information can see exactly where the data is coming from. :)

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Re: A man’s advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Think men are the unfaithful sex? A study shows WOMEN are the biggest cheats - they’re just better at lying about it | Mail Online
Top 12: Cheating Myths - AskMen
Cheating Statistics: Do Men Cheat More Than Women? | Fox News Magazine

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Re: A man's advice to potential brides:The Nikahnama

Young women are more promiscuous than men, according to a survey that claims the average 21-year-old has had nine sexual partners compared with seven for men.

The poll of 2,000 by the magazine More also found that one in four young women has slept with more than 10 people, compared with one in five men who had done the same.

In addition, half of those questioned admitted they had been unfaithful, whereas only a quarter said they had been cheated on by a boyfriend.

It comes just a week after an academic study branded Britain one of the casual sex capitals of the Western world, with residents having more one-night stands and more liberal attitudes than those in Australia, France, the Netherlands, Italy and the US.

Lisa Smosarski, the editor of More, said: "Our results show that after decades of lying back and thinking of England, today's twenty-something women are taking control of their sex lives and getting what they want in bed."

The magazine's survey found that few young women today hold to traditional views on sexual morality.

Just 1 per cent of young women said they would want to get married before having sex, with the majority losing their virginity at 16.

More than half said they were not in love with their first partner, and only one in three believe it is important to be in love with someone before going to bed with them.

Seven out of 10 said they had had a one-night stand, with a fifth admitting to having had more than five casual encounters.

In addition, 60 per cent said they would be prepared to do a "kiss-and-tell", and would sell their account of a one-night-stand with a famous person for £20,000.

Four out of 10 said they would marry for money or sleep with their boss if it meant they would get promoted, while a quarter would have an affair with a married man.

The survey also found young women are taking "huge risks" with their health, with 38 per cent not using a condom with a new partner and 16 per cent having contracted a sexually transmitted disease.

However the respondents still claimed they are not having as much sex as they would like, with 13 per cent claiming their love life is "disappointing" and a further 10 per cent calling it "non-existent".

According to the survey, the average young woman has sex three times a week but would prefer to do it five times.